172 réponses à ce sujet

[GreenDragon37]

jayred vas normandy wrote...

don't get me wrong after ME1 i had a bad taste from cerberus. but i would have to say i had just as much dislike for the geth. In ME2 i looked at the present actions of both and decided they were both lesser evils than what i was facing. so for the time being i would work with both.

Yeah, I did that in ME2. I did what they wanted:  stopped the Collectors. But that didn't meant that I wouldn't blow up the Collector Base and expect TIM to "do the right thing" with it. <_<

[Siegdrifa]

jayred vas normandy wrote...

geth didnt experiment on humans but the sure made a lot of husk out of us.

But they were not geth, they were heretic.

No human have ever encountered geth.


If legion was a liar, instead of saving Shepard he could have killed him/her.
What's turning human into husk is not geth (heretic) technologie, but reapers technologie.

Heretic accept reapers technologie, geth refuse it, they want to build their own future.

Modifié par Siegdrifa, 05 janvier 2011 - 05:01 .

[jayred vas normandy]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

jayred vas normandy wrote...

don't get me wrong after ME1 i had a bad taste from cerberus. but i would have to say i had just as much dislike for the geth. In ME2 i looked at the present actions of both and decided they were both lesser evils than what i was facing. so for the time being i would work with both.

Yeah, I did that in ME2. I did what they wanted:  stopped the Collectors. But that didn't meant that I wouldn't blow up the Collector Base and expect TIM to "do the right thing" with it. <_<

yeah i totally expect TIM to do some B.S. with the base, but i also think that base will come in handy in ME3 so I'll deal with TIM when the time come.

[GreenDragon37]

jayred vas normandy wrote...

geth didnt experiment on humans but the sure made a lot of husk out of us.

So did Cerberus! They also experimented on an Autistic Boy and tried to fuse his mind to the neural network... in a harsh manner... and it failed and could have screwed up the galaxy! Also, they did "accidentally" release the Rachni on a few worlds, killed an Alliance Admiral, and... wait for it... experimented and tortured kids so that they become powerful biotics (Jack), and infiltrated and almost blew up a ship in the Migrant Fleet! I didn't read the books, but I haven't heard good things in there about Cerberus, either. <_<

Cerberus are no better than the Heretics.

Modifié par GreenDragon37, 05 janvier 2011 - 05:02 .

[Asheer_Khan]

In matter of fact (i read somewere about this) Jack IS a failed project because her body despite L5 implants is unable to properly channel so huge amount of energy (what for Asari born biotic wouldn't be a problem at all) so each time when she uses her powers at full capacity (like bio bubble in C-Base) she's literaly burn form inside and some estimations says that she won't see her 30'ths because of that "error"... and all this because some psychos on Pragia supported by cyber-egomaniac decided to play a God...

[GreenDragon37]

Asheer_Khan wrote...

In matter of fact (i read somewere about this) Jack IS a failed project because her body despite L5 implants is unable to properly channel so huge amount of energy (what for Asari born biotic wouldn't be a problem at all) so each time when she uses her powers at full capacity (like bio bubble in C-Base) she's literaly burn form inside and some estimations says that she won't see her 30'ths because of that "error"... and all this because some psychos on Pragia supported by cyber-egomaniac decided to play a God...

Hm, I never read that. If what what you say is true, that is a sad fate indeed.

[jayred vas normandy]

Siegdrifa wrote...

jayred vas normandy wrote...

geth didnt experiment on humans but the sure made a lot of husk out of us.

But they were not geth, they were heretic.

No human have ever encountered geth.


If legion was a liar, instead of saving Shepard he could have killed him/her.
What's turning human into husk is not geth (heretic) technologie, but reapers technologie.

Heretic accept reapers technologie, geth refuse it, they want to build their own future.

but you don't know that until you decide to give the geth a chance anyway. so why not take legion out while he was offline. beacuse you want him to explain him self.

so Y after cerberus brings u back don't u give them the same benifit.

[GreenDragon37]

jayred vas normandy wrote...

Siegdrifa wrote...

jayred vas normandy wrote...

geth didnt experiment on humans but the sure made a lot of husk out of us.

But they were not geth, they were heretic.

No human have ever encountered geth.


If legion was a liar, instead of saving Shepard he could have killed him/her.
What's turning human into husk is not geth (heretic) technologie, but reapers technologie.

Heretic accept reapers technologie, geth refuse it, they want to build their own future.

but you don't know that until you decide to give the geth a chance anyway. so why not take legion out while he was offline. beacuse you want him to explain him self.

so Y after cerberus brings u back don't u give them the same benifit.

Because they're still the same, racist, experimenting, murdering bastards that I remember from ME 1. And they don't regret that.

[Clone 071]

Honestly, I think more hate goes toward Cerberus because they're pro-humanity, and the majority of us know what crimes against humanity are like. We symapthize for the "innocent" victims and get enraged at the aggressors. And Mass Effect puts this out for all to see.



The geth on the other hand, we don't know much about AIs because technology hasn't come that far yet, so it relinquishes most of our dislike for them.

[GreenDragon37]

Clone 071 wrote...

Honestly, I think more hate goes toward Cerberus because they're pro-humanity, and the majority of us know what crimes against humanity are like. We symapthize for the "innocent" victims and get enraged at the aggressors. And Mass Effect puts this out for all to see.

The geth on the other hand, we don't know much about AIs because technology hasn't come that far yet, so it relinquishes most of our dislike for them.

Plus, we never truly talk with the Geth. We've never truly experienced both sides. And I've sort of sympathized with them since ME 1 when Tali told me how the Geth rebelled. It's just like Admiral Koris said when Tali made that outbirst about the Geth driving them from their homeworld, "Of course they did, we tried to kill them". It showed that the Geth weren't just blind killing machines, slaughtering organics without a person. Though I disagreed with them, I understood why the Heretics despised organics.

Also, Legion saved my life, afterall. Time to see what's what. Get some answers and all that jazz.
 

Modifié par GreenDragon37, 05 janvier 2011 - 05:17 .

[Siegdrifa]

jayred vas normandy wrote...

Siegdrifa wrote...

jayred vas normandy wrote...

geth didnt experiment on humans but the sure made a lot of husk out of us.

But they were not geth, they were heretic.

No human have ever encountered geth.


If legion was a liar, instead of saving Shepard he could have killed him/her.
What's turning human into husk is not geth (heretic) technologie, but reapers technologie.

Heretic accept reapers technologie, geth refuse it, they want to build their own future.

but you don't know that until you decide to give the geth a chance anyway. so why not take legion out while he was offline. beacuse you want him to explain him self.

so Y after cerberus brings u back don't u give them the same benifit.

I don't get your point, do you realise that since ME1 we are charging geth of different atrocity but they were innocent?
And since ME1 ceberus is still taking responsibility for the **** they have done.

So we are talking about a group that was innocent and another that are guilty, and you want to treat them the same way?

[Clone 071]

jayred vas normandy wrote...

but you don't know that until you decide to give the geth a chance anyway. so why not take legion out while he was offline. beacuse you want him to explain him self.

Rather because no one has ever "captured" an intact geth. Most notably the only "true" geth you encounter in ME1 is in UNC: Geth Incursions. The rest are just heretics bent on Sovereign's will.

Modifié par Clone 071, 05 janvier 2011 - 05:32 .

[GreenDragon37]

Clone 071 wrote...

jayred vas normandy wrote...

but you don't know that until you decide to give the geth a chance anyway. so why not take legion out while he was offline. beacuse you want him to explain him self.

Rather because no one has ever "captured" an intact geth. Most notably the only "real" geth you encounter in ME1 is in UNC: Geth Incursions. The rest are just heretics bent on Sovereign's will.

Wait, those were "true Geth"? I thought that they were heretics because they were preparing an attack.

Again, that's why I took Legion and questioned him, We have never heard the side of the Geth, and Legion had every opportunity in the world to kill us and end our campaign against the Reapers for good... but he didn't.

Modifié par GreenDragon37, 05 janvier 2011 - 05:24 .

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Teknor wrote...

Overlord - The geth became controllable (Renegade Option)

Edited to clarify.

Overlord - LOL. If it wasn't for Shepard, that AI would have beamed itself off world, well and truely SCREWING the galaxy up.

Well I guess some peoples imports will find themselves in a SCREWED up galaxy then if they don't do the mission eh? Well that being if we followed your idea of such a thing happening LOL

Certainly is going to be intriguing to see how they handle Overlord for those that didn't do it. But before you say Shep will have done it by default, Shep so far has never done anything by default. Neither default Shep nor import Shep had any dealings with BDtS. As far as LotSB goes Liara will have done that on her own without Shep's help, Shep was just there as added help. As for Firewalker, well just means a prothean ruin wasn't discovered

Modifié par Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien, 05 janvier 2011 - 05:22 .

[Dean_the_Young]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Asheer_Khan wrote...

In matter of fact (i read somewere about this) Jack IS a failed project because her body despite L5 implants is unable to properly channel so huge amount of energy (what for Asari born biotic wouldn't be a problem at all) so each time when she uses her powers at full capacity (like bio bubble in C-Base) she's literaly burn form inside and some estimations says that she won't see her 30'ths because of that "error"... and all this because some psychos on Pragia supported by cyber-egomaniac decided to play a God...

Hm, I never read that. If what what you say is true, that is a sad fate indeed.

It's more of the inverse.

It's not that the extent of her powers cause decay: the decay causes the extent of her powers. Longevity for power, though not at her request. No less sad.

[GreenDragon37]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Asheer_Khan wrote...

In matter of fact (i read somewere about this) Jack IS a failed project because her body despite L5 implants is unable to properly channel so huge amount of energy (what for Asari born biotic wouldn't be a problem at all) so each time when she uses her powers at full capacity (like bio bubble in C-Base) she's literaly burn form inside and some estimations says that she won't see her 30'ths because of that "error"... and all this because some psychos on Pragia supported by cyber-egomaniac decided to play a God...

Hm, I never read that. If what what you say is true, that is a sad fate indeed.

It's more of the inverse.

It's not that the extent of her powers cause decay: the decay causes the extent of her powers. Longevity for power, though not at her request. No less sad.

Indeed.

[Ryzaki]

Teknor wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Also Cerberus is plain boring and inept.

Yeah saving human colonies from a certain extinction and preventing a birth of a reaper is the epitomy of ineptitude.

It is when you have to rely on the god mode sue to do so.

[Amyntas]

The Renegade ending makes it very clear:

TIM: "It (Collector Base) will secure our dominance in the galaxy against the Reapers and beyond"

Shep: "Human dominance or just Cerberus?"

TIM: "They're one and the same."

TIM wants to be our benevolent dictator.

Modifié par Amyntas, 05 janvier 2011 - 05:27 .

[Siegdrifa]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Clone 071 wrote...

jayred vas normandy wrote...

but you don't know that until you decide to give the geth a chance anyway. so why not take legion out while he was offline. beacuse you want him to explain him self.

Rather because no one has ever "captured" an intact geth. Most notably the only "real" geth you encounter in ME1 is in UNC: Geth Incursions. The rest are just heretics bent on Sovereign's will.

Wait, those were "true Geth"? I thought that they were heretics because they were preparing an attack.

Again, that's why I took Legion and questioned him, We have never heard the side of the Geth, and Legion had every opportunity in the world to kill us and end our campaign against the Reapers forever... but he didn't.

No sure they are, but what can give doubt is, one of the computer inside the base said it was playing quarian music.

But if i remember well, legion say they don't vanture boyond the veille to be caution, that why they spy on the extranet, that is also why they build the plateform used by legion, to gather more than a thousand geth in the same plateform in order to be enough efficient and discret, so they don't have to send a many squad.

Modifié par Siegdrifa, 05 janvier 2011 - 05:30 .

[GreenDragon37]

Siegdrifa wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Clone 071 wrote...

jayred vas normandy wrote...

but you don't know that until you decide to give the geth a chance anyway. so why not take legion out while he was offline. beacuse you want him to explain him self.

Rather because no one has ever "captured" an intact geth. Most notably the only "real" geth you encounter in ME1 is in UNC: Geth Incursions. The rest are just heretics bent on Sovereign's will.

Wait, those were "true Geth"? I thought that they were heretics because they were preparing an attack.

Again, that's why I took Legion and questioned him, We have never heard the side of the Geth, and Legion had every opportunity in the world to kill us and end our campaign against the Reapers forever... but he didn't.

No sure they are, but what can give doubt is, one of the computer inside the base said it was playing quarian music.

But if i remember well, legion say they don't vanture boyond the veille to be caution, that why they spy on the extranet, that is also why they build the plateform used by legion, to gather more than a thousand geth in the same plateform in order to be enough efficient and discret, so they don't have to send a many squad.

Also the fact that Legion said that they(True Geth) have never met Shephard. Which gives weight to the possibility that the Geth we encountered in UNC: Geth Incursions were Heretic Geth. But that might just be a small oversight. Still, a somewhat significant one.

[Dean_the_Young]

StowyMcStowstow wrote...

Teknor wrote...

Yet all those experiments yielded profitable results.

Lazarus - Shepard is resurrected.
Pragia - Human biotic potential is better understood.
Overlord - The geth became controllable.
Derelict Reaper - Reaper IFF gave access to Collector Base.

Yet everyone died.

And? 

Deaths in the process do not automatically invalidate the gains. The return of Shepard, and the good even a bad Shepard does, outweighs the cost of Lazarus tens, hundreds, and thousands of times over in ME2 alone. Likewise, the Reaper IFF was not some optional aspect, but a requisite for stopping the ongoing abductions of hundreds of thousands of innocents in a scheme aiming at infinitely more: comparitively, the Cerberus cost was in the hundreds, and those hundreds were volunteers. So were the Cerberus personnel who died in Overlord, and Pragia, and every other disaster, even if you dispute whether those provided or made possible other important gains.


Cerberus achieving advances at cost to itself is not grounds for objection when they absorb the vast majority of those costs of breakdowns themselves, and those Cerberus personnel that do that do are volunteers.

I don't remember the Geth becoming controllable in overlord. There was one guy who could communicate with them, and if you chose the paragon option, he goes to an alliance place, and the only surviving Cerberus scientist is sent to prison.

If you chose Paragon, you have no one to blame for losing that option other than yourself.

'That one guy' was hacking the Geth involved. As you're told in the choice set-up that he proves it's possible, but that the disaster could be blocked from reoccuring.

Also, in Mass Effect 1, Cerberus was just a bunch of kids compared to you. you shut down so many of their operations in such a rapid manner that you could have killed off their entire organization had the game let you. 

You're Commander Shepard. You can kill the entire galaxy with ease if the game let you. Everyone's a **** compared to Shepard and his fire team.

In regards to Cerberus, though, you shut down a grand total of... one cell in ME1. The Admiral Kohaku cell.

[Clone 071]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Clone 071 wrote...

jayred vas normandy wrote...

but you don't know that until you decide to give the geth a chance anyway. so why not take legion out while he was offline. beacuse you want him to explain him self.

Rather because no one has ever "captured" an intact geth. Most notably the only "real" geth you encounter in ME1 is in UNC: Geth Incursions. The rest are just heretics bent on Sovereign's will.

Wait, those were "true Geth"? I thought that they were heretics because they were preparing an attack.

To complete Tali's pilgramage, you need to gather data from geth not corrupted by Sovereign's will.
Also, in ME2 the geth venture just a little outside of their space to attack a vessel in N7: Immenent Ship Crash. Also, I doubt the geth on the planet Canalus in N7: Anomalous Weather Detected were Heretics.

Edit: But hey, it's not like it says "Look at me! I'm a Heretic!". Just my reasoning.

Modifié par Clone 071, 05 janvier 2011 - 05:41 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Ryzaki wrote...

Teknor wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Also Cerberus is plain boring and inept.

Yeah saving human colonies from a certain extinction and preventing a birth of a reaper is the epitomy of ineptitude.

It is when you have to rely on the god mode sue to do so.

Don't forget what the other consequence of a god mode sue is: everyone else in sight becomes incompetent until they join the Sue's team. Everyone else is made to suck the moment they get in sight in order to boost the intelligence of the player-sue.

In ME1's first act, we single-handidly broke through Geth forces that tore apart Alliance units with ease, saw 'the best of the best' get taken down from behind like a chump, proved charges of treason in thirty minutes on two off-hand avenues of approach what the entire Citadel police arm couldn't pick up in days of widespread effort across the Citadel, and then started on the entire story plot of picking up one of the Council's messes, a rogue Spectre with genocidal ambitions.

In the first act. And they never exactly demonstrated themselves as especially competent afterwards either.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 05 janvier 2011 - 05:46 .

[ReluctantMind]

My biggest problem with Cerberus is not their ineptitude, which is mostly used to give Shepard stuff to rescue and kill. It's the lack of morality that leads them to wipe out whomever they choose to accomplish a particular goal. It reminds me of what Anderson said about Saren. How Saren wouldn't even look for other alternatives than violence. Cerberus drops morality in service to expedience. Some people are cool with this or admire it. Others see that attitude as dangerously irresponsible. I, like others who have posted, think morality should play a role in decision making, even when talking about potential Armageddon. I don't trust Cerberus because they, in my opinion, are using fear to advance their agenda at the expense of any morality.

[Dean_the_Young]

Clone 071 wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Clone 071 wrote...

jayred vas normandy wrote...

but you don't know that until you decide to give the geth a chance anyway. so why not take legion out while he was offline. beacuse you want him to explain him self.

Rather because no one has ever "captured" an intact geth. Most notably the only "real" geth you encounter in ME1 is in UNC: Geth Incursions. The rest are just heretics bent on Sovereign's will.

Wait, those were "true Geth"? I thought that they were heretics because they were preparing an attack.

To complete Tali's pilgramage, you need to gather data from geth not corrupted by Sovereign's will.
Also, in ME2 the geth venture just a little outside of their space to attack a vessel in N7: Immenent Ship Crash. Also, I doubt the geth on the planet Canalus in N7: Anomalous Weather Detected were Heretics.

Edit: But hey, it's not like it says "Look at me! I'm a Heretic!". Just my reasoning.

That entire course of missions was a response to a Heretic Geth invasion force building up in that Cluster. There was no differentiation in ME1, nor was there any reason to think that terminal was non-Heretic.


Nor, come to that, were the Heretics ever corrupted data wise. The Heretics are perfectly functional geth that freely chose to follow the Reapers. Coercion in the form of the Virus was their own invention, years after Sovereign's death.