172 réponses à ce sujet

[GreenDragon37]

Clone 071 wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Clone 071 wrote...

jayred vas normandy wrote...

but you don't know that until you decide to give the geth a chance anyway. so why not take legion out while he was offline. beacuse you want him to explain him self.

Rather because no one has ever "captured" an intact geth. Most notably the only "real" geth you encounter in ME1 is in UNC: Geth Incursions. The rest are just heretics bent on Sovereign's will.

Wait, those were "true Geth"? I thought that they were heretics because they were preparing an attack.

To complete Tali's pilgramage, you need to gather data from geth not corrupted by Sovereign's will.
Also, in ME2 the geth venture just a little outside of their space to attack a vessel in N7: Immenent Ship Crash. Also, I doubt the geth on the planet Canalus in N7: Anomalous Weather Detected were Heretics.

Edit: But hey, it's not like it says "Look at me! I'm a Heretic!". Just my reasoning.

I view almost every Geth I kill as a Heretic in ME 1 and ME2. Especially because Legion says "we have never met you".  And it's plausible the Heretics were finding ways to screw up organic's weather paterns. Again, it's a theory. We really don't know what they were trying to accomplish with that "weather dominator" and why.

Modifié par GreenDragon37, 05 janvier 2011 - 05:49 .

[Clone 071]

You also encounter Cerberus in many assignments in ME1. A lot more then the "true" geth I would say. Such as follows:
UNC: Depot Sigma-23
UNC: Colony of the Dead
UNC: Dead Scientists (learning about their involvement in Akuze)
UNC: Missing Marines
UNC: Cerberus
UNC: Hades' Dogs
All of these had Cerberus involvement, which definitely made me dislike them more than the "true" geth.

[Dean_the_Young]

Clone 071 wrote...

You also encounter Cerberus in many assignments in ME1. A lot more then the "true" geth I would say. Such as follows:
UNC: Depot Sigma-23
UNC: Colony of the Dead
UNC: Dead Scientists (learning about their involvement in Akuze)
UNC: Missing Marines
UNC: Cerberus
UNC: Hades' Dogs
All of these had Cerberus involvement, which definitely made me dislike them more than the "true" geth.

Two main lines of mention (the Kohaku line and the Rachni line), and only one of them you shut down.

We never even hear that Cerberus started the Colony of the Dead incident, only that they wanted 'samples' from ExoGeni. Given ExoGeni's potential involvement, and the number of alternative colonies/settlements which huskified themselves, the writers dropped the ball on providing any clarity for that one.

[Siegdrifa]

Clone 071 wrote...
To complete Tali's pilgramage, you need to gather data from geth not corrupted by Sovereign's will.

I wonder where you got that ?
It's related to geth, not geth corrupted by sovereign since at that time, may be you don't have discovered the endroctrination, and impling "not corruprted" mean it's abovious some are not corrupted, but we learn there is 2 faction only in ME2.

Did i miss something about the "non corrupted geth" or is it just your interpretation?

Modifié par Siegdrifa, 05 janvier 2011 - 05:54 .

[Ryzaki]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Don't forget what the other consequence of a god mode sue is: everyone else in sight becomes incompetent until they join the Sue's team. Everyone else is made to suck the moment they get in sight in order to boost the intelligence of the player-sue.

In ME1's first act, we single-handidly broke through Geth forces that tore apart Alliance units with ease, saw 'the best of the best' get taken down from behind like a chump, proved charges of treason in thirty minutes on two off-hand avenues of approach what the entire Citadel police arm couldn't pick up in days of widespread effort across the Citadel, and then started on the entire story plot of picking up one of the Council's messes, a rogue Spectre with genocidal ambitions.

In the first act. And they never exactly demonstrated themselves as especially competent afterwards either.

That is also very true. Good god the council. For something that has been in power so long why are you so damn stupid?

And yeah...urgh. Good grief that was annoying.

[Clone 071]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Clone 071 wrote...

You also encounter Cerberus in many assignments in ME1. A lot more then the "true" geth I would say. Such as follows:
UNC: Depot Sigma-23
UNC: Colony of the Dead
UNC: Dead Scientists (learning about their involvement in Akuze)
UNC: Missing Marines
UNC: Cerberus
UNC: Hades' Dogs
All of these had Cerberus involvement, which definitely made me dislike them more than the "true" geth.

Two main lines of mention (the Kohaku line and the Rachni line), and only one of them you shut down.

We never even hear that Cerberus started the Colony of the Dead incident, only that they wanted 'samples' from ExoGeni. Given ExoGeni's potential involvement, and the number of alternative colonies/settlements which huskified themselves, the writers dropped the ball on providing any clarity for that one.

I'm not saying which ones you shut down; that was someone else. Again, I said involvement; not blaming who did what.
I'm just talking about why I dislike Cerberus more than the geth.

[GreenDragon37]

Ryzaki wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Don't forget what the other consequence of a god mode sue is: everyone else in sight becomes incompetent until they join the Sue's team. Everyone else is made to suck the moment they get in sight in order to boost the intelligence of the player-sue.

In ME1's first act, we single-handidly broke through Geth forces that tore apart Alliance units with ease, saw 'the best of the best' get taken down from behind like a chump, proved charges of treason in thirty minutes on two off-hand avenues of approach what the entire Citadel police arm couldn't pick up in days of widespread effort across the Citadel, and then started on the entire story plot of picking up one of the Council's messes, a rogue Spectre with genocidal ambitions.

In the first act. And they never exactly demonstrated themselves as especially competent afterwards either.

That is also very true. Good god the council. For something that has been in power so long why are you so damn stupid?

And yeah...urgh. Good grief that was annoying.

I agree. However, the "Freshman" Council appears to be even worse than the original Council! At least, from what I believe. <_<

Modifié par GreenDragon37, 05 janvier 2011 - 05:58 .

[Clone 071]

Siegdrifa wrote...

Clone 071 wrote...
To complete Tali's pilgramage, you need to gather data from geth not corrupted by Sovereign's will.

I wonder where you got that ?
It's related to geth, not geth corrupted by sovereign since at that time, may be you don't have discovered the endroctrination, and impling "not corruprted" mean it's abovious some are not corrupted, but we learn there is 2 faction only in ME2.

Did i miss something about the "non corrupted geth" or is it just your interpretation?

I got that info from talking to Tali aboard the Normandy. Talking about what she would need to complete her pilgrimage.

Yes,"noncorrupted geth" was just my interpretation. "Geth not following Saren" is what Tali said, to make it more accurate.

Modifié par Clone 071, 05 janvier 2011 - 06:00 .

[GreenDragon37]

Clone 071 wrote...

Siegdrifa wrote...

Clone 071 wrote...
To complete Tali's pilgramage, you need to gather data from geth not corrupted by Sovereign's will.

I wonder where you got that ?
It's related to geth, not geth corrupted by sovereign since at that time, may be you don't have discovered the endroctrination, and impling "not corruprted" mean it's abovious some are not corrupted, but we learn there is 2 faction only in ME2.

Did i miss something about the "non corrupted geth" or is it just your interpretation?

I got that info from talking to Tali aboard the Normandy. Talking about what she would need to complete her pilgrimage.
That's just my interpretation. "Geth not following Saren" is what Tali said, making it more accurate.

You have a point, but it's probably just writer oversight.

[Siegdrifa]

Clone 071 wrote...
I got that info from talking to Tali aboard the Normandy. Talking about what she would need to complete her pilgrimage.

Yes,"noncorrupted geth" was just my interpretation. "Geth not following Saren" is what Tali said, to make it more accurate.

Ah yeah, now that you say it, i think there is something like this.
It's may be a writting oversight, but i will pay more intention on my next playthrough.

I interpreted it as "not geth we meet on the current mission" but may be it's in fact geth not taking order from saren.

Modifié par Siegdrifa, 05 janvier 2011 - 06:11 .

[jbblue05]

Some paragons remind me of those geth infiltrators disquised as Asari.  They're just sitting their complaining about things they don't understand and doesn't match their personal beliefs.  Eventually Renegade Shepard puts them in their place.

Some people are too "morally just" and "politically correct" for their own good.

Its so easy to say something is wrong and that you would never support such a thing, because your not in the positon that someone else has to take.  I really believe paragons like things to be as 'black' and 'white'  'good' and 'evil'. as  possible.  I also think Paragons are "Captain Hindsight".

Renegades can say acceptable casualties all they want but once things become persoanl, perception changes.

I like Cerberus they are pioneers, they take risks so people in the future can benefit and learn from them.  Humanity advanced because they took risks. No risk no advancement.. 

Even if you take down Cerberus the Alliance will just create a "New Cerberus" and make sure your Shepard doesn't find out about it

[GreenDragon37]

jbblue05 wrote...

Some paragons remind me of those geth infiltrators disquised as Asari.  They're just sitting their complaining about things they don't understand and doesn't match their personal beliefs.  Eventually Renegade Shepard puts them in their place.

Some people are too "morally just" and "politically correct" for their own good.

Its so easy to say something is wrong and that you would never support such a thing, because your not in the positon that someone else has to take.  I really believe paragons like things to be as 'black' and 'white'  'good' and 'evil'. as  possible.  I also think Paragons are "Captain Hindsight".

Renegades can say acceptable casualties all they want but once things become persoanl, perception changes.

I like Cerberus they are pioneers, they take risks so people in the future can benefit and learn from them.  Humanity advanced because they took risks. No risk no advancement.. 

Even if you take down Cerberus the Alliance will just create a "New Cerberus" and make sure your Shepard doesn't find out about it

Oh I'll find out. I've got Liara as LI and Shadow Broker. I'll know... and I'll stop 'em.

I find it funny that Renegades say that they "are doing things for the good of the galaxy". When they actually believe that Humans should "dominate everything" and that Humans are "the one true race, all aliens are inferior, Humanity FTW!". Sounds familliar...

They aren't as "good" as you make them out to be. Renegades will toss aside whatever and whomever in order to achieve their goals.  They hide behind the veil of  "progress" and "peace in our time". However, how many lives must be lost to achieve this "peace"? How many people must they step on to "unite" the galaxy under one banner?

Renegades only care about themselves. Not the greater whole. When the Reapers are gone and no-one is left, they will turn on the very people they swore they were doing all of the "heinous" crimes for.

How far is too far? For Renegades: it's not far enough!

Modifié par GreenDragon37, 05 janvier 2011 - 06:21 .

[Ryzaki]

One of the many reasons the Alliance needs a major overhaul. I have no issue with something like the STG doing something morally grey. But the STG gets goddamn results without relying on Shepard.

[Siegdrifa]

jbblue05 wrote...


 I really believe paragons like things to be as 'black' and 'white'  'good' and 'evil'. as  possible.  I also think Paragons are "Captain Hindsight".

Pragagon black and white in ME is Samara with her code, she doesn't belive in redemption, it's just black and white, and i don't remember the paragon path in ME being the same way.

I like Cerberus they are pioneers, they take risks so people in the future can benefit and learn from them.  Humanity advanced because they took risks. No risk no advancement.. 

Mordin strongly desagree with you, he achive great advancement without experimenting on living being and don't need to sacrifice other.

Modifié par Siegdrifa, 05 janvier 2011 - 06:23 .

[Ryzaki]

Oh great another Paragons are naive idealists while renegades are the smartest thing eva! Arguement.

Gag me with a spoon. Both groups can be idealistic and smart and both can be naive and foolish.It's not limited to one or the other. Renegade just happens to be a douchebag while doing it while Paragon is a boyscout. That's all folks.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 05 janvier 2011 - 06:22 .

[jayred vas normandy]

the reason i can give cerberus a chance is because :



brought Shep back.



willing to act while CC, and Alliance sit on their collective thumbs.



provide intel and funding for the most important mission anyones ever faced



they may cross the line but what black ops division dosent at some point.



I don't agree with their methods but if they give me a way to fight the Reaper i'll gladly take it.

[GreenDragon37]

Ryzaki wrote...

Oh great another Paragons are naive idealists while renegades are the smartest thing eva!

Gag me with a spoon. Both groups can be idealistic and smart and both can be naive and foolish.

Thank you. Really, you have to have a mix of both. I'm a Paragade, but mostly a Paragon in the grand scheme of things. There are the good and bad in both groups, but most of the time, I'll align myself with Paragons more than Renegades.

Modifié par GreenDragon37, 05 janvier 2011 - 06:25 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Why not Cerberus?

Lol! They ain't cool aliens, therefore they suck!!!

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 05 janvier 2011 - 06:25 .

[GreenDragon37]

jayred vas normandy wrote...

the reason i can give cerberus a chance is because :

brought Shep back.

willing to act while CC, and Alliance sit on their collective thumbs.

provide intel and funding for the most important mission anyones ever faced

they may cross the line but what black ops division dosent at some point.

I don't agree with their methods but if they give me a way to fight the Reaper i'll gladly take it.

That doesn't mean I won't try to bring them in for the injustices that they have commited after all of this is over.

[jayred vas normandy]

buy the way i play as a paragon. but i think cerberus is nessesary, not moral but nine the less needed.

[Clone 071]

jayred vas normandy wrote...
provide intel and funding for the most important mission anyones ever faced

Uh huh, intel. I happen to recall "That son of a b*tch sent us right into Collector hands".

Modifié par Clone 071, 05 janvier 2011 - 06:31 .

[GreenDragon37]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Why not Cerberus?

Lol! They ain't cool aliens, therefore they suck!!!

Uh... probably because they are terrorists and rouges? Did I mention... RACIST!?

Modifié par GreenDragon37, 05 janvier 2011 - 06:33 .

[jayred vas normandy]

Clone 071 wrote...

jayred vas normandy wrote...
provide intel and funding for the most important mission anyones ever faced

Uh huh, intel. I happen to recall "That son of a b*tch sent us right into Collector hands".

never said i trust them but i will work toward a common goal with their help.
once the reaper are gone then we can talk about their past but right now i got bigger fish to fry( much bigger)

[GreenDragon37]

jayred vas normandy wrote...

Clone 071 wrote...

jayred vas normandy wrote...
provide intel and funding for the most important mission anyones ever faced

Uh huh, intel. I happen to recall "That son of a b*tch sent us right into Collector hands".

never said i trust them but i will work toward a common goal with their help.
once the reaper are gone then we can talk about their past but right now i got bigger fish to fry( much bigger)

Then Cerberus will take advantage of everyone's weakness and form their new Human empire. Enslaving everyone else.

This will bretty much happen: Human Empire

Modifié par GreenDragon37, 05 janvier 2011 - 06:46 .

[jbblue05]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

Some paragons remind me of those geth infiltrators disquised as Asari.  They're just sitting their complaining about things they don't understand and doesn't match their personal beliefs.  Eventually Renegade Shepard puts them in their place.

Some people are too "morally just" and "politically correct" for their own good.

Its so easy to say something is wrong and that you would never support such a thing, because your not in the positon that someone else has to take.  I really believe paragons like things to be as 'black' and 'white'  'good' and 'evil'. as  possible.  I also think Paragons are "Captain Hindsight".

Renegades can say acceptable casualties all they want but once things become persoanl, perception changes.

I like Cerberus they are pioneers, they take risks so people in the future can benefit and learn from them.  Humanity advanced because they took risks. No risk no advancement.. 

Even if you take down Cerberus the Alliance will just create a "New Cerberus" and make sure your Shepard doesn't find out about it

Oh I'll find out. I've got Liara as LI and Shadow Broker. I'll know... and I'll stop 'em.

I find it funny that Renegades say that they "are doing things for the good of the galaxy". When they actually believe that Humans should "dominate everything" and that Humans are "the one true race, all aliens are inferior, Humanity FTW!". Sounds familliar...

They aren't as "good" as you make them out to be. Renegades will toss aside whatever and whomever in order to achieve their goals.  They hide behind the veil of  "progress" and "peace in our time". However, how many lives must be lost to achieve this "peace"? How many people must they step on to "unite" the galaxy under one banner?

Renegades only care about themselves. Not the greater whole. When the Reapers are gone and no-one is left, they will turn on the very people they swore they were doing all of the "heinous" crimes for.

How far is too far? For Renegades: it's not far enough!

Actually paragons are more selfish they care more about satisfying their moral concious then the bigger picture.

I rather have the human race on top then looking up to aliens.

The only choice I can think of that a renegade betrays  someone is Samara. But then again even though its metagaming Samara is going to try to kill you.  I'm not even sure most renegades choose Morinth over Samara

How do Renegades only care about themselves?  Let me guess we aren't super-nice to people.  If Renegade Shepard was selfish they would be playing video games and drinking instead of risking their neck to save human colonies.