172 réponses à ce sujet

[jbblue05]

Clone 071 wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

The Paragons are still more selfish.  Being human first will benfit billions of Alliance citizens. Paragons satisfying their moral concious only benefits them and the person they are being nice to.

But not necessarily everyone you talk to is human. Heck, at least 2/3 of the ones you speak to are aliens.
And saving the Council doesn't didn't just benefit you and the 3 Council members. It benefited all 4 races at that.

Saving the Council is the more selfish choice.

You save the DA bcause of 3 people. The 10,000 crewman aboard are an added bonus.  Your willing to risk Alliance reinforcements to save them.

Knowing that Soveriegn is a powerful enemy you throw away reinforcements  and risk not having enough man-power to take down Sovereign.  Potentially dooming hundreds of billions people in the potential Reaper onslaught

[jayred vas normandy]

(I don't think the Illusive Man was in charge in ME 1.)



if he was in charge while jack was test subject then he was in charge during ME1

[GreenDragon37]

jayred vas normandy wrote...

(I don't think the Illusive Man was in charge in ME 1.)

if he was in charge while jack was test subject then he was in charge during ME1

Hm, good catch. That still doesn't mean he isn't racist though.

[Dean_the_Young]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

So I'm guessing that whole "securing Human dominance against the Reapers and beyond" line wasn't xenophobic in the least, huh?

When 'Human' is a national unit? Not necessary in the least.

Desires for dominance do not primarily or necessitate rely on racism.

[Clone 071]

jbblue05 wrote...

Your willing to risk Alliance reinforcements to save them.

As in your words: "No risk, no advancement."

[Barquiel]

jbblue05 wrote...

Saving the Council is the more selfish choice.

You save the DA bcause of 3 people. The 10,000 crewman aboard are an added bonus.  Your willing to risk Alliance reinforcements to save them.

Knowing that Soveriegn is a powerful enemy you throw away reinforcements  and risk not having enough man-power to take down Sovereign.  Potentially dooming hundreds of billions people in the potential Reaper onslaught

If that were the case, Admiral Hackett would thank Commander Shepard for his/her uninformed suggestion and he would ignore Shepards paragon decision.

Modifié par Barquiel, 05 janvier 2011 - 07:44 .

[jbblue05]

Clone 071 wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

Your willing to risk Alliance reinforcements to save them.

As in your words: "No risk, no advancement."

You can reach the same goal in different ways.

Safer route and riskier route.

You Paragons took the risk and it paid off

Modifié par jbblue05, 05 janvier 2011 - 07:48 .

[GreenDragon37]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

So I'm guessing that whole "securing Human dominance against the Reapers and beyond" line wasn't xenophobic in the least, huh?

When 'Human' is a national unit? Not necessary in the least.

Desires for dominance do not primarily or necessitate rely on racism.

"Cerberus is Humanity!" He's cleartly making a bold, arrogant statement, that he is the voice of Humanity as a whole. So yes, he is thinks he is speaking for the race as a whole. Again, an bold and arrogant statement.

It's based on race as well as politics.

Modifié par GreenDragon37, 05 janvier 2011 - 07:47 .

[Dean_the_Young]

[quote]GreenDragon37 wrote...

I still believe that they are a Racist terrorist group. Even jacob believes that they are called terrorists for a good reason. And after reading the Shadow Broker's dossiers, I'm more convinced that erberus are terrorists and xenophobes, considering that they called for a political/religious assassination and they support Terra Firma (who are extremely xenophobic). [/quote]Assassination is not innately terrorism, especially when the assassination is so well hidden that offical inquiries don't even realize there was an assasination in the first place.

If you believe they are called terrorists for good reasons, and have insight to the Shadow Broker's dossiers, surely you can point at three examples of political terrorism, right?


[quote]
TIM only put you with the least Xenophobic group in the bunch because he wanted to make himself look good. He  brought in Joker, again, to himself look good, and trick Shephard into thinking "these guys aren't so bad, after all." A smart move, but luckily, it didn't work on me. I could see right through his crock of crap.[/quote]And your proof of the crock of crap is... what examples of terrorism and purely xenophobic rationals again?


[quote]
And about that "Human dominance against the Reapers and beyond" line. I guess that's not  xenophobic in the least, right? <_<[/quote]Not to anyone who's familiar with how color, race, and species blind power ambitions are.

[/quote]

[GreenDragon37]

Clone 071 wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

Your willing to risk Alliance reinforcements to save them.

As in your words: "No risk, no advancement."

Oooh! Nice catch! 

+1 for you, sir!

[jayred vas normandy]

my question is why is the goal of human dominance wrong. do u think the other races don't want to be top dog.



Im not saying impose our will on other races, but to strive for the most ur race can achive is worthy cause.



u think the turians don't have shadow projects to give them a tactical edge.

[Dean_the_Young]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

So I'm guessing that whole "securing Human dominance against the Reapers and beyond" line wasn't xenophobic in the least, huh?

When 'Human' is a national unit? Not necessary in the least.

Desires for dominance do not primarily or necessitate rely on racism.

"Cerberus is Humanity!" He's cleartly making a bold, arrogant statement, that he is the voice of Humanity as a whole. So yes, he is thinks he is speaking for the race as a whole. Again, an bold and arrogant statement.

He's self-identifying and making a metaphorical point. It's something everyone does at some point, and is in no way or context meant to be taken literally.

And how does what you wrote have anything to do or address my point?

[jbblue05]

Barquiel wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

Saving the Council is the more selfish choice.

You save the DA bcause of 3 people. The 10,000 crewman aboard are an added bonus.  Your willing to risk Alliance reinforcements to save them.

Knowing that Soveriegn is a powerful enemy you throw away reinforcements  and risk not having enough man-power to take down Sovereign.  Potentially dooming hundreds of billions people in the potential Reaper onslaught

If that were the case, Admiral Hackett would thank Commander Shepard for his/her uninformed suggestion and he would ignore Shepards paragon decision.

Everybody knows Shepard is the Supreme Commander.

Hackett does whatever Shepard tells him. 

[Dean_the_Young]

Barquiel wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

Saving the Council is the more selfish choice.

You save the DA bcause of 3 people. The 10,000 crewman aboard are an added bonus.  Your willing to risk Alliance reinforcements to save them.

Knowing that Soveriegn is a powerful enemy you throw away reinforcements  and risk not having enough man-power to take down Sovereign.  Potentially dooming hundreds of billions people in the potential Reaper onslaught

If that were the case, Admiral Hackett would thank Commander Shepard for his/her uninformed suggestion and he would ignore Shepards paragon decision.

That's not innate at all. They're asking for your input because they aren't informed of the situation. They are relying on you because they don't have the best insight of the battle at that point.

[GreenDragon37]

jayred vas normandy wrote...

my question is why is the goal of human dominance wrong. do u think the other races don't want to be top dog.

Im not saying impose our will on other races, but to strive for the most ur race can achive is worthy cause.

u think the turians don't have shadow projects to give them a tactical edge.

When you try for complete dominance, you turn everyone against you. There's evidence throughout history what happens when one group tries to extend it's cultural, racial, and power-based dominance all across the globe. It just pisses everyone off.

With your train of thinking, Hitler was right. "The ends justify the means, so long as the Aryan race dominates the world."

Or in this case, "as long as Humanity dominates the Galaxy, everything we did to get here was good."

It's the same train of thought.

Modifié par GreenDragon37, 05 janvier 2011 - 07:56 .

[GreenDragon37]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

So I'm guessing that whole "securing Human dominance against the Reapers and beyond" line wasn't xenophobic in the least, huh?

When 'Human' is a national unit? Not necessary in the least.

Desires for dominance do not primarily or necessitate rely on racism.

"Cerberus is Humanity!" He's cleartly making a bold, arrogant statement, that he is the voice of Humanity as a whole. So yes, he is thinks he is speaking for the race as a whole. Again, an bold and arrogant statement.

He's self-identifying and making a metaphorical point. It's something everyone does at some point, and is in no way or context meant to be taken literally.

And how does what you wrote have anything to do or address my point?

Where does he get off speaking for Humanity? Is he the leader of the Alliance? Does he truly know what's best for us? Or does he think he knows what's best for us?

I sure didn't vote him in.

[Asheer_Khan]

jayred vas normandy wrote...

my question is why is the goal of human dominance wrong. do u think the other races don't want to be top dog.

Im not saying impose our will on other races, but to strive for the most ur race can achive is worthy cause.

u think the turians don't have shadow projects to give them a tactical edge.

Ask Mexicans or Peruvians if they are grateful for "moral and technological advancement" Spanish brough them after reducing both cultures to role of slaves for white Spanish nobles.

And please explain me WHAT IDEALS or tech advancements we can "share" as this so desired top dog with THOUSAND YEARS OLD civilizations which they aren't yet discovered?

Arms race is always factor no matter if both sides are in peace or war since like old poverb says "You want Peace... prepare for War".

That's why despite thousand developed scenarios Warsaw Pact never declared war to NATO because Western forces were always one step ahead of Soviets so they known that they would loose land war without relayin on nuclear weapons as backup plan.

Really... all those debates about cerberus on this board is like talking with daltonist about colors...<_<

[Dean_the_Young]

[quote]jbblue05 wrote...

[quote]GreenDragon37 wrote...

Actually, from the looks of it, Turians dominate the Council. <_<

Also, we are pretty new and slowly gaining in strength. Not much is gonna change in two years when the Council has been around for millenia.[/quote]We're quite rapidly growing in strength. We've already outmuscled the Batarians, who were a Citadel species long before the Humans showed up, and in a few dozen years went from trapped in our own solar system to being able to wage a galactic war against the Council. The Council's hit more than its share of bumps, and has hardly been stockpiling an arms buildup for the last two millenium.


[quote]
Also, I don't consider siezing power cooperating with Aliens. Cerberus is only working with Aliens for now because they are desperate. That will change when the Reapers are gone, however. We all know it.[/quote]Why do we know it? Because you insist he hates aliens?

TIM's position is the advancement of the human race. When cooperation advances that, why wouldn't he? Cerberus has more history of reducing tensions between the Alliance and other species (removing an anti-Salarian pope, disgracing a biotic-sumpracist Matriarch, pushing the joint Human-Turian Normandy project) than direct action against any of the other races (attack on the Migrant Fleet).

We have significantly more examples with him working with aliens than against them.

[Barquiel]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

That's not innate at all. They're asking for your input because they aren't informed of the situation. They are relying on you because they don't have the best insight of the battle at that point.

They are better informed than Shepard. Shepard knows the Destiny Ascension has some problems, that's all.

Anyway to answer the OPs question, I am not forced to work with any geth.
I don't trust Legion = I don't activate Legion

But I gave cerberus and the geth a chance in ME2...and I still want to destroy Cerberus.

[Dean_the_Young]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Where does he get off speaking for Humanity? Is he the leader of the Alliance? Does he truly know what's best for us? Or does he think he knows what's best for us?

I sure didn't vote him in.

Again: not to be taken literally. And it's not like you voted for Anderson, or Udina, or Hacket.

TIM has the same right to speak on behalf of Humanity as you do to speak on behalf of your gender ('guys/girls don't like that...'), your nation ('Americans are xxx...'), your alignment ('Paragons are x,y,z'). He's a member of the group.

In some respects TIM has more right to speak for Humans than the Alliance: unlike the Alliance, TIM didn't ignore the Collector threat while hundreds of thousands were kidnapped and murdered, and he acted for them.

Yes, TIM does think he knows better than you. And in some regards, he's proven himself right about things other people didn't.

[GreenDragon37]

[quote]Dean_the_Young wrote...

[quote]jbblue05 wrote...

[quote]GreenDragon37 wrote...

Actually, from the looks of it, Turians dominate the Council. <_<

Also, we are pretty new and slowly gaining in strength. Not much is gonna change in two years when the Council has been around for millenia.[/quote]We're quite rapidly growing in strength. We've already outmuscled the Batarians, who were a Citadel species long before the Humans showed up, and in a few dozen years went from trapped in our own solar system to being able to wage a galactic war against the Council. The Council's hit more than its share of bumps, and has hardly been stockpiling an arms buildup for the last two millenium.


[quote]
Also, I don't consider siezing power cooperating with Aliens. Cerberus is only working with Aliens for now because they are desperate. That will change when the Reapers are gone, however. We all know it.[/quote]Why do we know it? Because you insist he hates aliens?

TIM's position is the advancement of the human race. When cooperation advances that, why wouldn't he? Cerberus has more history of reducing tensions between the Alliance and other species (removing an anti-Salarian pope, disgracing a biotic-sumpracist Matriarch, pushing the joint Human-Turian Normandy project) than direct action against any of the other races (attack on the Migrant Fleet).

We have significantly more examples with him working with aliens than against them.

[/quote]

Again, he wants to look good in the eyes of the people. He may do a few good things But underneath his bull lies an ulterior motive of Human Domination. TIM is a smart man. Making people think he's alright, when actuality, he has something far more sinister going on in the background.

It's all a game.

[Dean_the_Young]

Barquiel wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

That's not innate at all. They're asking for your input because they aren't informed of the situation. They are relying on you because they don't have the best insight of the battle at that point.

They are better informed than Shepard. Shepard knows the Destiny Ascension has some problems, that's all.

Anyway to answer the OPs question, I am not forced to work with any geth.
I don't trust Legion = I don't activate Legion

But I gave cerberus and the geth a chance in ME2...and I still want to destroy Cerberus.

The 5th Fleet has been locked on the far side of the galaxy. Shepard holds the keys to letting them in. How are they better informed, when they only just caught the end-tail of the battle, the DA's distress call once Shepard started Vigil's program?

[Dean_the_Young]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Again, he wants to look good in the eyes of the people. He may do a few good things But underneath his bull lies an ulterior motive of Human Domination. TIM is a smart man. Making people think he's alright, when actuality, he has something far more sinister going on in the background.

It's all a game.

Mass Effect series? Yes. TIM's motives? You have yet you never provide any support for your position. Infact, you're repeatedly backed off any point on which you are challenged, simply repeating the same position with slightly different wording, ignorring the fact you aren't even protesting what you think you're protesting.

Domination does not, and never has, mean a lack of cooperation. In history, domination has been impossible without extensive networks of cooperation.

[GreenDragon37]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Where does he get off speaking for Humanity? Is he the leader of the Alliance? Does he truly know what's best for us? Or does he think he knows what's best for us?

I sure didn't vote him in.

Again: not to be taken literally. And it's not like you voted for Anderson, or Udina, or Hacket.

TIM has the same right to speak on behalf of Humanity as you do to speak on behalf of your gender ('guys/girls don't like that...'), your nation ('Americans are xxx...'), your alignment ('Paragons are x,y,z'). He's a member of the group.

In some respects TIM has more right to speak for Humans than the Alliance: unlike the Alliance, TIM didn't ignore the Collector threat while hundreds of thousands were kidnapped and murdered, and he acted for them.

Yes, TIM does think he knows better than you. And in some regards, he's proven himself right about things other people didn't.

That doesn't mean he deserves to drag Humanity down with him in his crusade for "Human Dominance". He may have been right about a few things, but sure as hell isn't right about everything.

And yes, I did vote for Anderson.  And he does appear quite popular with the people. And I probably would have voted for Hackett to Supreme Commander.