21 réponses à ce sujet

[Ovenall]

FInally running through BG2 after several false starts in the past. My main guy is a Berserker.

(extremely mild spoilers:)

First off, how do you approach the flow of the quests in the game? Do you generally get the money to go after Imoen right away, or do you take your time and do various side quests first? I've been doing a bunch of the quests and have around 60,000+ gp so I could have easily started going after her a while back. But I didn't and now I feel kind of guilty, or at least have the nagging feeling that I'm playing "wrong" or against the grain of the story.

What's your take on this? Opinions are appreciated.

Also: How do you use Valygar? It's my first time using him and he seems fairly competent... but I'm not sure what the most effective way to use him would be. I replaced Minsc with him, but he's not really a big warrior type. What's the best way to use him?
 

[miss_daydream]

Generally, I usually do almost all of the side quests before going after Imoen. I only leave a few difficult encounters for afterwards. These days I also install the SCS II component that requires you to raise much more money to get Imoen back because it does get hard to RP a justification for hanging around doing sidequests sometimes. But, IMO, the pressure to carry on with the main plot later in the game is much stronger, so leaving the quests until later doesn't work RP-wise, either.



Really, there is no 'wrong' way to play. As I said, I think doing the quests earlier is better because of the increased urgency later in the game. But it's your game: play whatever way you want.



Re Valygar: no idea, I don't really use him much. I'm pretty sure I had him as a dual-wielder last time. But he isn't going to be the best tank, since he's limited in terms of armour.

[Kevin Lynch]

I tended to do everything I could in Chapter 2 before moving on to go after Imoen. The RPing reason I used to justify it was that my character anticipated the difficulties ahead and wanted to build a powerful group with good equipment, skills, and other assets to make it through the journey. The problem with waiting until later (Chapter 6) is that the story appears much more focused and the urgency is greater. So, looking at miss_daydream's post above, I agree.



Valygar as a dual-wielder (including a particular katana) seemed to fit best in the group combos I used him in, but it's really going to depend on the rest of your group, too. Frankly, the ability to use six different characters in your party gives you a lot of freedom to cover the skill-sets and you won't have to worry much about getting the "best" group.

[Ovenall]

Thanks for the replies so far. Keep them coming.

Currently my main character is a dual-wielding berserker. I just plain got tired of Minsc (I'm in the minority that finds him annoying after a while) and am running with Yoshimo, Nalia, Viconia, Jaheira and Valygar. I probably have an unstable mix of characters as Nalia and Viconia keep arguing. Maybe I'll dump Valygar in favor of Korgan (not sure of his name... evil dwarf guy) or Mazzy. I'd rather not have anyone run away, but if it happens it happens I guess.

Right now Valygar has a +3 longbow, but I usually have him help out with melee once the battle is started for a bit. I'm going to look into dual wielding with him.

Question- when a party member leaves in disgust over another member, do they permanently leave with all their stuff? Or is there a way to get any of it back?

NOT looking for spoilers here. please. I have never made it past turning in the money and a couple quests afterwards. Thanks for all the help. I'd especially appreciate hearing more about Valygar.

Modifié par Ovenall, 05 janvier 2011 - 10:19 .

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Ovenall wrote...
Currently my main character is a dual-wielding berserker. I just plain got tired of Minsc (I'm in the minority that finds him annoying after a while) and am running with Yoshimo, Nalia, Viconia, Jaheira and Valygar.

If you don't have any mods installed, archery is really not the way to use Valygar, and especially no long bow. The best bows in the game are the Tuigan short bow and (if you feel like cheating a little) the short bow of Gesen, the former for it's impressive number of attacks per round, the latter because it allows you to fire 2 arrows at once.
Still, usually Valygar has a lot more effect on the game if you play him as a tank. If you have the bonus merchants installed, buy the Defender of Easthaven (flail +3) and put it into his left hand. With his family armor and Armor of Faith (and later Hardiness) this should give him some nice resistances, which you should be able to improve with various equipment to the point where it doesn't really matter anymore in what kind of situation you send him, because he'll never take much damage. (note that this his family armor should be used at high levels, at low levels you'll probably want to go for whatever armor has the best AC or the best protection against whatever type of damage your next opponent is going to dish out)
You could also go for the standard offensive route. Kundane + whatever type of weapon your berserker/Jaheira leave for him + a belt of giant strength will get him to make himself felt at the front line.

I probably have an unstable mix of characters as Nalia and Viconia keep arguing.

Don't worry, they're not best buds, but they'll keep off each others throat. There are other combinations to watch out for. (Viconia is a problem in many good parties)

Question- when a party member leaves in disgust over another member, do they permanently leave with all their stuff? Or is there a way to get any of it back?

If it's their own decision to leave, it's final. If you kick them out, you can usually get them back.

[Enuhal]

Yes, if a party member is gone, they are gone for good. You should save regulary and reload if you didn't expect someone to leave (since you never completed the game, you propably don't know which pairings don't work in the long run, but usually there will be some early banter indicating who absolutely won't get along with whom.

For the quest order, it doesn't really matter. When playing not in a no-reload challenge, I often tend to do everything possible in chapter 2, otherwise I will do most of the quests and only keep the hard ones (pretty much everything including liches, beholders, dragons, mind flayers and mages with lvl 9 spells) for later. However, paying the gold early to get two certain trinkets is something I do quite often, but that's where I stop the mainquest for more sidequests.

My reasons are my tendency to do everything in some later parts of the game right when I get there, and I wouldn't feel comfortable doing this if I still was a rather low level. It's kind of hard to talk about it without using spoilers.

About Valygar:
He is an excellent dualwielder, especially if you get the katana "Celestial Rage", which is one of the best weapons in SOA (you can get it in the temple district, guarded compound).
For later, he will often be my main melee damadgedealer if I use him, so he gets two profiency points in warhammers, in flails and sometimes in axes. The really important part here for me are the warhammers, because there is a great warhammer for the offhand later in the game - the mainhand weapon can be of every type, but I prefer bludgeoning weapons (like the Flail of Ages).

For the early game, his family blade and the celestial rage make an excellent combination.

edit: However, since you are a dualwielding berserker, you might want to use some of the weapons mentioned above for yourself, so pick up different profiency points for your main character than you do for Valygar, or go with Humanoid Taifun's tankbuild.

Modifié par Enuhal, 05 janvier 2011 - 10:44 .

[Carinna]

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...
...at low levels you'll probably want to go for whatever armor has the best AC or the best protection against whatever type of damage your next opponent is going to dish out)...

I have to disagree with this since the OP mentioned that he was playing the game through for the first time.  In this instance, he won't know what his next opponent is going to do.

I tend to only take Valygar if he fits in with the group from a role-playing perspective.   People on this board will defend almost any character you can choose as "all around good" because they've been playing the game so long they know how to use everyone for anything.  My advice is:  If you're uncomfortable enough using Valygar that you have to ask, then don't take him.  He's only necessary to open the planar sphere (not even necessary to go through it, though you will get a little value-added if he does).   He hates arcane magic and arcane magic-wielders, so fits very well if your PC is a wizard-slayer, for instance.  Not so much for a PC sorceror or mage.

Characters fighting:  Generally, any character with a lawful good alignment will eventually leave if you have another character in your party of any evil alignment.  Other good alignments will argue, but not leave, so long as you keep your reputation from tanking too badly (Nalia is not lawful).  They will leave if your reputation becomes abysmal.  But the evil ones will leave if your reputation becomes too saintly, as well.  There's a patch you can apply to stop anyone from leaving the party over disagreements or reputation - it's in the G3 Tweakpack. 

You have not really said anything in regard to your own playing style so far as reputation/alignment goes, even though you are running with a very mixed alignment group and thinking about making it even more so (if you add Korgan, as he is evil too).   What alignment is your PC?  Are you playing "kill anything that moves and hang the consequences" or trying to be a decent fellow?  If you want to prevent disagreements, choose companions with an outlook similar to your PC's.

Question:  Are you only taking Viconia because of the romance?  If she is the only evil character in your party, this can be gotten around (during the course of the romance), provided you do not add any lawful good characters (PC would be the exception here).  This means do not add Mazzy.  If you only need her for a cleric, then take Anomen instead of Viconia.  He's annoying as hell, but gets much less so if you let him pass his test.  And he's much better in melee than Viconia for a first-time player.  Then do not add anyone evil and your "people leaving" problems are solved.

Incidentally, the "leaving the party" problem isn't the worst that can happen.  Sometimes the characters hate each other so much that one will end up killing another (and you can't stop it).  It just depends on the party combination.  However, so far, the only character I've heard of that leaves with all her stuff is Aerie, and that is only in certain instances (not all leavings are the same).  Most just shove it all at you and run away.

Bottom line:  You can solve your party agreement problems by paying attention to the NPCs' alignments.  It doesn't sound as if you've been looking at them much.

[suttree]

<edit - a little redundant, given I started writing this post before the above - yay multitasking >

Ovenall wrote...
First off, how do you approach the flow of the quests in the game?

I second miss_daydream's plug for the SCS gameplay tweak - "Increase the price asked by Gaelan Bayle." - the max setting (120 000gp before you meet Valen's mistress ) works well for me.

Perhaps play your current game as if this tweak were in place? You could SK out the gold or force yourself to save it until later in the game - the pressure to save rather than spend makes it easier to RP away some of the more unbalanced items sold by merchants in Ch2/3. It certainly adds tension (and a little tragedy - poor Imoen!) to the early game.

I do delay certain encounters until Ch6 (say anything involving liches/alhoons or dragons or portals or guarded compounds) since the loot tends to be OP and I find it easy to justify them with roleplay in Ch6. It is no spoiler to say that our hero will need help (both allies and equipment) as he approaches his final showdown with the big bad. Your party will spend at least some time seeking out old friends and assisting Cromwell - it feels right to secure certain artifacts at the same time.

Ovenall wrote...
Question- when a party member leaves in disgust over another member, do they permanently leave with all their stuff? Or is there a way to get any of it back?

Yes, it is possible for a party member to leave - permanently - with all his/her stuff. Not every conflict has this outcome, however. No spoilers as requested.

Ovenall wrote...
I'd especially appreciate hearing more about Valygar.

I think Valygar is one of the more enjoyable NPC's in the game. Korgan is a better tank, but Valygar rewards a more subtle approach. Take advantage of his stealth, backstab, and spells - a definite candidate for dual wielding if you plan on using him near the front line. It depends on your own playstyle - Valygar benfits from a little micromanagement and I enjoy that. The same reason people enjoy playing F/T's I imagine.

Modifié par suttree, 06 janvier 2011 - 12:16 .

[HolyAvenger]

I used a dual-wield Valygar with Celestial Rage and another good longsword, and had him in a party with Mazzy, which turns out great.

I also do all the big quests in Ch2 before moving on.

Modifié par HolyAvenger, 06 janvier 2011 - 12:35 .

[Enuhal]

Actually, what Carinna said about only lawful good party members getting trouble with evil party members isn't entirely true. For example, Minsc and Edwin will eventually kill each other.
If you want a list of which characters will eventually turn on each other, you can read it below in my post - I don't think it is a huge spoiler and might prevent frustration:


Edwin and Minsc will eventually fight each other to death
Aerie will eventually leave if you have Korgan in your party for too long (she warns you about it, though)
Anomen will possibly attack Keldorn or Aerie if he fails his test
Keldorn will eventually attack Viconia if you keep them in your party for too long
This might be important: If you talk to a certain person in the government district and have both Viconia and Valygar in your party, they'll also fight each other. Be careful if you want to keep them both!
Edwin and Valygar will eventually fight each other
Edwin and Keldorn could attack each other

These are all the occasions I know of. As you can see, Mazzy gets along pretty well with everyone despite being lawful good.

Also, in ToB, this party-leaving issues won't happen anymore.

Modifié par Enuhal, 06 janvier 2011 - 01:04 .

[wise grimwald]

If you don't like party members leaving, you can always install the happy patch. You may however want to play with the original game which I can well understand.

[Carinna]

Enuhal wrote...
Actually, what Carinna said about only lawful good party members getting trouble with evil party members isn't entirely true. For example, Minsc and Edwin will eventually kill each other.

It was intended as a general non-spoiler answer and the exception (Minsc and Edwin) doesn't apply as the OP said he didn't like Minsc so was not using him.


As to doing the quests vs. rescuing Imoen immediately - unfortunately, there will never come a time when doing all the quests fits from a role-playing perspective.  I, too, recommend installing a mod where the cost of rescuing her is far more expensive (it really needs to be).  I did not realize SCS included this, as I don't care for difficulty-enhancing mods so have never installed it.  Is it possible to install just this part without the difficulty-enhancement?  First time players would probably like to know if this is possible as well.

[polytope]

Carinna wrote...

I did not realize SCS included this, as I don't care for difficulty-enhancing mods so have never installed it.  Is it possible to install just this part without the difficulty-enhancement?  First time players would probably like to know if this is possible as well.

Yes, SCS tweaks - like the bugfix for the mirror image spell - are modular and can be installed without the improved AI / tactics. Ironically, increasing the price for Gaelan Bayle/Bodhi is one of the few options I don't use (too greedy).

Regarding Ovenall's questions; if you rush to Spellhold you may find the Underdark too difficult, for your first playthrough - it helps to have a properly leveled party with good magical weapons.

Re: Valygar, I find him to be a useful "stealth" character, however, if you're new to the game I'd recommend Keldorn instead - Inquisitors are easier to use effectively.

Edit: I just saw you have Viccy, Keldorn isn't for your party then.

Modifié par polytope, 06 janvier 2011 - 02:30 .

[suttree]

polytope wrote...

Carinna wrote...
I did not realize SCS included this, as I don't care for difficulty-enhancing mods so have never installed it.  Is it possible to install just this part without the difficulty-enhancement? 

Yes, SCS tweaks - like the bugfix for the mirror image spell - are modular and can be installed without the improved AI / tactics.

Indeed there are a great variety of spell/item/gameplay/cosmetic tweaks in SCS that are worth considering independent of the SCS AI and tactical challenges.

It's worth noting that the AI/tactics components are also modular.   Even those who don't care for difficulty-enhancing mods may benefit from the Improved General AI and/or the Smarter Mage/Cleric (option 3) components.   Enemies don't look any different - they just aren't stupid.   

Modifié par suttree, 06 janvier 2011 - 03:41 .

[Urdnot_Write]

Kevin Lynch wrote...

I tended to do everything I could in Chapter 2 before moving on to go after Imoen. The RPing reason I used to justify it was that my character anticipated the difficulties ahead and wanted to build a powerful group with good equipment, skills, and other assets to make it through the journey. The problem with waiting until later (Chapter 6) is that the story appears much more focused and the urgency is greater. So, looking at miss_daydream's post above, I agree.

You can RP your way out of almost any situation, but I feel like this one is the easiest to justify. The Protagonist knows that the "final tally will include much more than gold" and so delays in order to be properly prepared.

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Carinna wrote...

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...
...at low levels you'll probably want to go for whatever armor has the best AC or the best protection against whatever type of damage your next opponent is going to dish out)...

I have to disagree with this since the OP mentioned that he was playing the game through for the first time.  In this instance, he won't know what his next opponent is going to do.

I don't think there is much to disagree with, actually. If he doesn't know what kind of damage the enemy deals, the obvious answer is to improve his general protections (AC for example). If he knows he's about to challenge a red dragon, there is a good chance that his characters may suffer some minor burns. (of course, at low levels he might not want to challenge a red dragon)

Back on topic:
There are a number of off-hand choices that are considered superior to everything else. Putting a simple long sword there will waste good potential.
Kundane +2/Belm +2: Both these weapons add an extra attack to your main hand. Belm is also usable by Jaheira (if you want her to dualwield, this should be her second weapon), which is why I suggested Kundane earlier.
Defender of Easthaven: [not available without mods/collectors' edition] Bonus on your physical resistances, minor AC bonus (-1). Resistance bonus by itself nothing special, but can be combined with others for awesome result
Crom Faeyr: Strength 25, best damage weapon for characters with cleric weapon limitations (though clerics won't need the strength bonus)
There are other interesting choices that can make sense (Dak'kon's Zerth Blade, Equalizer, Shield of Reflection, Shield of Harmony etc), but you can't go very wrong with these 4 weapons.

Modifié par Humanoid_Taifun, 06 janvier 2011 - 08:11 .

[lroumen]

I rarely go to Imoens rescue right from the start. That makes little sense. The protagonist is stranded in a city he does not know and needs to acquire a sum of money before he can venture to accomplish one of two things: 1. If you seek revenge, it makes sense to gear up greatly. 2. If you seek to rescue Imoen, it makes sense to gear up properly (but not greatly).

In addition, the protagonist needs to get acquainted with the customs and the people. Of course doing a few quests is not a bad thing. I would at least visit every place in Athkatla and doing a few of the minor quests in these areas without feeling any qualms of letting Imoen wait. They can be accomplished within a few game hours, even if it seems like you're running around in circles sometimes. The first money gathered is not even saved up for Gaelan at all but spent to acquire proper equipment, potions, spell scrolls and healing.

At a certain point (every game is different) I feel that from a roleplaying perspective my protagonist has either acquired enough gear, has accomplished enough goals for himself (if greedy) or for other people (if generous), or has tallied for too long for revenge/rescue (a few weeks). The delay is often a few weeks (2-4) because of travel mostly or related to stronghold quests outside of town.



I think that if you personally feel that you are taking too long, it is the perfect time to press on. You still have a few things to accomplish before you set sail in case you have not paid yet and before you actually find Imoen/your main foe.



Valygar I use in various ways. He can backstab so sometimes I go with rings or potions of invisibility or spells by party mages and go a bit wild with his katana and put proficiencies in single weapon style (to increase defense and critical hit chance). Another method is to use stealth and haste to run in and out of battle, but that should not be done too often.

Other times I use him to dual-wield or shoot arrows, but I have also gone so far as to use his spear proficiency with great effect. You cannot really go wrong with the NPCs because there are so many you can always swap them.

[Morbidest]

To go back to the original post, I also like to do almost all (except for Twisted Rune and Kangaax) the side quests before I go to Brynlaw. However, some people argue against this because it usually means that Imoen will be 2 levels behind (lev. 11 instead of lev. 13) the other mage (if you're using Nalia or Edwin) in your party. Personally I don't find that a problem because by Watchers Keep she will have caught up. 

In general rather than worrying about indivitual NPCs or weapons, I try to keep a skill balance (2 tanks, 2 clerics/druid 2nd line fighters, 1 mage and 1 mage/ thief) in a 6 person party. If you play at Core, or harder, you're going to permanently lose (GONE!) NPCs during a run (unless you're willing to reload many times in the toughest battles).

[oyzar]

I have even done watchers keep in chapter 2...



The 4 offhand weapons humanoid taifun mentiones as well as scarlet ninja-to for thiefduals and bards(aka not applicable for valgyar) makes him very potent. Defender of easthaven can be combined with hardiness and spirit armor(both of which it is possible for valgyar to get) for really high physical resistance.

[Ovenall]

Thanks for the responses. Really wish you didn't dish out so many spoilers (as I asked), though this is in a spoiler-allowed forum.



Thanks again.

[moilami]

Incidentally, the "leaving the party" problem isn't the worst that can happen.  Sometimes the characters hate each other so much that one will end up killing another (and you can't stop it).

Ahh.....reminds me how awesome games BG1 and BG2 are It all started from Xzar & Montaron vs Khalid & Jaheira

[moilami]

Ovenall wrote...

(extremely mild spoilers:)

First off, how do you approach the flow of the quests in the game? Do you generally get the money to go after Imoen right away,
 

In my first playthrough attempt  years ago I went furiously after Imoen I was a little bit mad.