139 réponses à ce sujet

[Eguintir Eligard]

As someone who is primarily interested in download count, I was wondering what people's take are on this situation.

-Trinity released around the end of summer.... he posted he had 500 downloads in 2 weeks and would clear 1000 before the month.
-Risen hero came oct and has just cleared 1k almost 4 months later.
-Islander released for about six weeks now has a combined total of 350 downloads (had to change the entry once, im at 217 now was at 140ish).

Path of Evil is out and has 200 downloads in just a few days (2?)

Now what exactly happened here to cause such disparity? I have some ideas that I don't think are reasonable reasons:

#1 Path of Evil / Trinity are better campaigns. How could anybody possibly decide that without downloading first.
#2 More people knew about the other campaigns. Marginally, maybe. We've all found that his forum is mostly us builders
and people on the vault go there and generally pick from the sidebar. Equal coverage pretty much.

I figured releasing a day before december would give a lot of people with time off a chance to play.
My first 2 day numbers were like 40 if that. But in January where everyone is back at the grindstone they suddenly all
want to download a module.

Thoughts?

Either way with the sharp decline since summer in downloading I'm not sure I want to do a sequel but I would like to know what happened.

It also doesn't help that Path of Evil has already been bumped by a poison system that pretty obviously belongs in scripts, and 3 other modules were bumped by an erroneous prefab that belongs in prefabs and has since been canceleld by the user but the entry remains.

[kamalpoe]

My cron job to get 5000 downloads is working! Just kidding. I think we'll see a rapid drop in downloads of my campaign.



For what it's worth, I tried to be very active in showing regular updates on the forums. I also aimed for a niche that I figured would be popular, but underserved.



I wonder if early December is slow for downloads because people are doing all their pre-holiday stuff like parties and shopping. Then Christmas is over and they go look and see, but Islander was bumped off new modules by the other things? You can put it in the Vault spotlight thing at the top of the page to give it some more visibility.



I personally haven't had a chance to try Islander, since I was focused on getting my own work out.

[M. Rieder]

I think that updates in the mods forum are a big part.  I am conducting a bit of a experiment.  For The Wizard's Apprentice 1, I didn't post a thread until release.  For the sequel I have started an update thread which I am updating regularly.  I'll be able to compare downloads and see the effect.

Eguintir Eligard wrote...


It also doesn't help that Path of Evil has already been bumped by a poison system that pretty obviously belongs in scripts, and 3 other modules were bumped by an erroneous prefab that belongs in prefabs and has since been canceleld by the user but the entry remains.

I completely agree.  I wish there was a way to take these off and put them in their appropriate categories.  It is pretty unfair to someone who spent moths or years making a campaign or module to be bumped by a prefab area or something like that. 

[Arkalezth]

Personally, I didn't play a lot these holidays. Kamal can tell you, I tested his module almost daily the prior weeks, and I think I was close to the end, but the holidays came and (ironically maybe) I couldn't finish it before it was released. I guess that's a reason, gaming takes a lower priority for some people these days.

On top of that, PoE is a campaign for evil characters, which is pretty rare and original. That can attract some players (it did with me).

I'm taking a break from NWN2 now, but Islander has a high priority in my playlist, if that makes you happy (along with other modules, I haven't played Risen Hero yet, for example).

[Eguintir Eligard]

expanding on the original game is its own answer as to how it got downloads, I wont argue with that it seems logical. Trinity I think benefitted from being out in summer but I also thought as we bleed out users that the next modules might do half as good. But Risen hero is only 1k in about 4mos, then mine is on pace for... shall we say 600? But then path of evil gets 200 immediately.



I get that its an underserved market, I had one comment on my own module that he wasnt playing because its not evil. What the hell do you expect? Evil is supposed to be a rare subculture that you can occasionally explore. The whole game itself is based on fighting the bad guys like any fantasy. Thats one thing I might lean toward.



Reider I dont know that your experiment would be very valid science wise: you already have a module out, creating a sequel would be its own reason for having more response. You cant possibly tell if its your history or your thread that generates.



As for the updates here, I dont really buy that myself, right or wrong, because it is my feeling that theres really only us builders here and a few readers. You can back this up by looking at a thread that has me, kamal, shaugn and someone else making 16 total posts and it has about 70 views. Thats each of us posting and each checking each reply.





If you look at the modules history recently they more or less have more downloads by rank of seniority as you would expect, but it looks like 4th quarter releases are going to get passed over. And once people start hopping on the new one, the old campaigns stop getting hits.



I guess I shoudln't be surprised though, I set out to get a lot of downloads and I got the least. If I had set out to get highest scores I'd probably get an 8.0 if life in general is any indicator .



I think any sequel effort will definitely be in a new toolset wherever that may be.

[Eguintir Eligard]

ps I messaged BeyondThePale about the empty prefab and the poison system that bumped Kamal. Hopefully he sees the value of moving the scripting one, but I expect at least the empty prefab will be gone.

[Lugaid of the Red Stripes]

I think what you need is a hook, just a short paragraph right at the top of your module description that tells players why they should play it. The module will stand well enough on its own merits after they start playing, but to get them to download it you need to give them a simple reason, like my 'ranger!' and kamalpoe's 'evil!'.

[manageri]

Just a thought but Kaedrin's compatibility could be part of it. I personally don't care super much about it but maybe other players do.

[M. Rieder]

Lugaid of the Red Stripes wrote...

I think what you need is a hook...

Then you could check out the hook...

[M. Rieder]

..while the DJ revolves it...

[Eguintir Eligard]

Hook added. I thought I did do that somewhere I guess I got to busy. I did from day one add a much (I think) helpful list of what to expect at the bottom. I guess dry facts arent as much a pull. I always like to have a general idea about a module, it would be nice if more authors said what to more or less expect. IE "this module is on rails" would be true for the vast majority, or this is a sandbox etc.



I suppose this isnt as appealing to others though but now I have both a summary of expectations and a teaser intro.

[BartjeD]

Where does Islander take place? For some reason knowing where in Faerun I'll be adventuring before I download the module helps take that step. (the hook says is that the adventure will affect Faerun - but what am I downloading!!!)

Moonshae Isles? Unknown locale? It could increase the draw if you place this in your hook.

Modifié par BartjeD, 05 janvier 2011 - 09:14 .

[nicethugbert]

Kaedrin's has more votes and downloads than any module, and possibly the highest score, or there abouts. I know it's been out longer than most modules so you should see more votes and downloads than most modules. But, you can still compare it to older modules. It's tops.

I think you send a signal to a relatively large quiet player base when you don't include compatibility with Kaedrin's.

There may be other signals being sent to the player base that they interpret negatively.

I get a bad feel for a module when I see game stopping bugs. I save it for later when the bugs are resolved. I do the same thing with games. I'm not an early adopter type guy. I don't appreciate paying to bug test a so called finished product. I don't like being on the cutting edge, especially when it's the customer getting cut. Volunteering for testing is a different matter. I expect game stopping bug in that case.

Expectations are very important.

Modifié par nicethugbert, 05 janvier 2011 - 09:15 .

[Eguintir Eligard]

Ok, but who said my game had bugs?



I didn't do the whole beta release thing. I fixed it before it went out.



If Kaedrin didnt screw with every 2da in existence it would be compatible. Not something I can change now, but its a solid point.

[The Fred]

One thing I've noticed about download counts it that - unsuprisingly - resources for builders, however awesome, get significantly less than things any player can use. For example, of all the things I submitted under "UI", the XP slider has the most downloads even though it's the most recent. Kaedrin's pack has not only been out a long time, it's very much something that appeals to a wide audience - peope don't have to chose whether to spend their time on mod 1 or mod 2, they can take Kaedrin's AND a mod... or just the OC - plus, character-building options are more interesting to a lot of people than great modules.

[The Fred]

Also over the holidays, people might be spending time with families etc, and their routine changes. So, they might not be checking for things coming out, and once they drop off the first page on the Vault, their visitation count plummets.

[Eguintir Eligard]

Ya I hear that. I dont know why soooo many people claim to love baldurs gate but there are so many people obsessed with character building, but are completely put off by party building. You have a party of six with swappable companions... to be thats a challenge. Build a team with a given set of prospects, like in pro sports. Anybody can click numbers for optimal effect. And thats about as roleplayish as yelling owned every time you kill a monster.



So far I have changed all the suggestions I could. If the pace picks up or even stays the same but averages out nicely I guess it doesnt matter how slow I started. It is kind of embarassing to be overtaken by a chronologically younger module though when I dont think thats really happened in the toplist history.

[BartjeD]

BartjeD wrote...

Where does Islander take place? For some reason knowing where in Faerun I'll be adventuring before I download the module helps take that step. (the hook says is that the adventure will affect Faerun - but what am I downloading!!!)

Moonshae Isles? Unknown locale? It could increase the draw if you place this in your hook.

Also if the Island is supposed to be unknown then perhaps this can be stated more obviously. (is it? I'ts not clear to me)

Something like: Somewhere on a mysterious island near the center of Faerun unbeknownst to the world's inhabitants their fates for generations to come are about to be decided. - Then the rest.

This way the word mysterious signals that it's a probably unknown or very exotic location that isn't mainstream like the Warlocks Crypt (Larloch) or Baldurs Gate, NWN etc..


[edit] Ah! I see you put it in, It looks a lot nicer now to me! Gives me sense of place in the world instead of just... "somewhere, once upon a time". Going to start playing it tomorrow.

Modifié par BartjeD, 05 janvier 2011 - 10:20 .

[Eguintir Eligard]

Hey hers a thought: I was going to and still want to (for my voice actors) do a trailer of the campaign. But FRAPs refuses to do the sound for me even thought it says its recording. Anyone have this issue?

Modifié par Eguintir Eligard, 05 janvier 2011 - 10:00 .

[kamalpoe]

Eguintir Eligard wrote...

Hey hers a thought: I was going to and still want to (for my voice actors) do a trailer of the campaign. But FRAPs refuses to do the sound for me even thought it says its recording. Anyone have this issue?

What I did for my movies is record them (from powerpoint to avi using Camstudio in my case) and then edit the music track in (because the avi capture I was using wouldn't record the music directly from the powerpoint.). Unless you need really tight sync this may work.

[Eguintir Eligard]

Well the idea was to showcase the SYNCHed up lip flapper scenes so the actors could see and hear their voice at work. Would it be completely retarded to record the the thing with a video camera? I imagine the lighting could be adjust to work well but the sound would be beyond crap. But then the compression does that too.

Modifié par Eguintir Eligard, 05 janvier 2011 - 10:18 .

[The Fred]

Well, at the end of the day, some things are going to appeal more to some people than other things. However, a trailer would probably be pretty good for getting some interest.

[nicethugbert]

Eguintir Eligard wrote...

Ok, but who said my game had bugs?

I didn't do the whole beta release thing. I fixed it before it went out.

If Kaedrin didnt screw with every 2da in existence it would be compatible. Not something I can change now, but its a solid point.

The Nile is a river in Egypt.

I posted the same bug that someone else posted earlier.  But that was not my point.  I mentioned bugs as an example of things that can turn people off, things like denial.

People who really like Kaedrin's, and there is a signficant percentage of them, don't want to hear crying about Kaedrin touching every 2da.  They wish he would do even more.

Something like Kaedrin's class Pack represents more.  People want more, not less.  When you say no to this and no to that and you have a habit of sayng no, people see less not more.  So they stay away from it.

If you make your own class/feat/spell changes and additions, that needs to be communicated, especially if it signals more, wether in terms of variety or number of choice.

Incidentally, Kaedrin asked for input on making a separate pathfinder class/feat/spell pack and it got no support, or hardly, from builders.  That class pack would have addressed a lot of issues which people have with D&D and it would have been much smaller so you would not have to worry about perodically shifting 2da files.

[kamalpoe]

When I think of hooks for modules now I think of what things make a module unique or at least less common.



class specific: Wizard's Apprentice, TMGS. In these the builder should really be building to highlight and explore that specific class or a small variation. I'm not a fan of wizards normally, but I enjoyed Wizard's Apprentice a lot because there was a lot of focus on well, being a wizard. (Have yet to play TMGS)



Setting specific: module takes place in some unusual and exotic setting. Ravenloft, Darksun, Thay, underwater, even the Ten Towns. If you can make me feel I'm there you've got a great hook. Being in the Neverwinter Woods is not a good hook, I've been there many times before.



Unique mechanic: Knightmare is making something like a rts with Reversal of Fortune. Shagret and Althéa are tracking things you do ingame and allowing you to see stats.



Re-Spinning a official mechanic: Run a keep like Crossroads, overland map or trade like SoZ, use the MotB spirit gauge to keep track of your vampiric bloodthirst or something.



I had a couple of these for Path of Evil. I had evil, which I suppose functions like the "class specific" hook. I had the setting hook with some unusual locations like Calimport Muzad and Halruaa, and the re-spin hook with a stronghold.