126 réponses à ce sujet

[Atakuma]

Ninja Mage wrote...

Hopefully we can still talk to companions in towns..if not..wow..just wow

You can only have conversations with your companions at their "home base"

[Felfenix]

David Gaider wrote...

I've noticed that conversation continuously changes in BioWare games. Each one they do a little differently to address a problem they've found in the last one, and each one introduces its own problems.

This is true. I have no doubt there will be issues with this one-- in fact, I already know of some (hindsight is always a boon as well as a curse). I suppose it's a matter of continuously trying to evolve and figure out what you can live with and what you can't. I doubt we'll ever strike on anything that's "perfect", which is pretty subjective anyhow.

In before a hysterical and barely literate poster claims Gaider should be fired for admitting there's a part of the game he doesn't find ideal, that it's bad for marketting, etc.

Modifié par Felfenix, 06 janvier 2011 - 09:56 .

[Atakuma]

Honesty is always bad for marketing.

[Ninja Mage]

Atakuma wrote...

Ninja Mage wrote...

Hopefully we can still talk to companions in towns..if not..wow..just wow

You can only have conversations with your companions at their "home base"

See, this makes no sense to me. You are in a social setting, your companions are with you, and you can't
initiate a conversation unless it happens to be the dwarven pub or Pirates R US? What kind of development can you have with your companions if they never speak to you besides some canned line in a town. This is common sense

[Atakuma]

Ninja Mage wrote...
 What kind of development can you have with your companions if they never speak to you besides some canned line in a town.

The same as Origins. The companions can still initiate conversations like the one you have with alistair when you enter redcliff, you just wont be able to talk to your companions whenever you want.

[wulfsturm]

Ninja Mage wrote...

See, this makes no sense to me. You are in a social setting, your companions are with you, and you can't
initiate a conversation unless it happens to be the dwarven pub or Pirates R US? What kind of development can you have with your companions if they never speak to you besides some canned line in a town. This is common sense

Sometimes game mechanics need to supersede plot in order for a game to work as desired.

[gamedog2408]

Hey David Gaider it must feel good to be in a thread that isnt bashing you or the Bioware team like a late Christmas gift

[Ninja Mage]

It's not like you had to talk to people in Origins in dungeons. This decision is really weird to me. They can talk to you whenever they want but if you're in some seaside village you can't say a word to them?? Just wow

[The Lesser Evil]

David Gaider wrote...

Combat/non-combat has nothing to do with it. "They only engage in full cinematic conversations with you in their home base, or if they initiate the dialogue themselves" means just that.

Sounds good. I assume this will mean that relationships (not necessarily romantic, but friendship too) between your Hawke and his or her companions will develop more naturally than they did in Origins. Not that they couldn't develop naturally there, but on my first play through I got caught up in all the different dialogue options (they were fun) and had Morrigan practically drag my Warden to her tent on my second visit to the camp, without me having realized that anything remotely flirty or romantic had been initiated.

[HolyMoogle]

Have to agree with Ninja Mage.



Even if you consider it completely unrealistic, I still enjoy having access to the "basic" information about party members anywhere in the game. Information like who they are, where they came from and what they think of the current situation. Even if I've heard it before, it's nice to be able to click on them and hear it again at any time. Don't care if it's not realistic, and I fail to see how it would break the budget.

[Felfenix]

HolyMoogle wrote...

Have to agree with Ninja Mage.

Even if you consider it completely unrealistic, I still enjoy having access to the "basic" information about party members anywhere in the game. Information like who they are, where they came from and what they think of the current situation. Even if I've heard it before, it's nice to be able to click on them and hear it again at any time. Don't care if it's not realistic, and I fail to see how it would break the budget.

But we're already deprived of that, with a few characters, at least. When I click on Alistair, all he has to say is "What do you want?" and if I click the only dialog option of "Tell me about the Gray Wardens." he says "What do you want to know?" but there's no dialog options whatsoever. Not even to repeat things he's previously said. I can't ask most characters to repeat most things they've told me before, but it's no big deal, I payed attention the first time.

Also, it doesn't seem to be a budget choice so much as an artistic/style choice to streamline the game, maybe something about realism and talking about cookies in the middle of the battlefield, blahblahblah. If they wanted to save money, they wouldn't opt for the "more cinematic" dialogs we'll be having only at the party member's base or whatever.

[kcifor]

Pretty much what Felfenix said, the example given of Alistair is perfect. I found that once I had gone through all the dialogue options with a certain character I would find myself never talking to them again, in camp or outside. This led to me caring less about that particular companion since they had nothing new to offer me and I still had tons of game left. I still cared about them but not as much as I would have if I had prompted conversations spread throughout the game to remind me they were still alive (except my dog, Simba will always be my PC's best buddy even if you couldn't interact with him ).



I think with this system it would allow the player to keep connected with all their companions by having dialogue choices be prompted at certain intervals, perhaps not all at once like in Origins (I know I know, you got new choices with higher approval but thanks to a combination of 'right' dialogue choices, Old Tegrim and the Andraste's Grace in Redcliffe I almost had her up at max anyways).



(Written on no sleep the past night so forgive any mistakes, grammar-wise or sense-wise...)

[highcastle]

I can see both sides of this issue. On one hand, I think nearly everyone at some point or another probably ran out of dialog with one character or another. Occasionally you might get a quest-related dialog, but it was always disappointing when you realized you're only halfway through the game and there's no one left to talk to.

On the other hand, I really don't like the idea that I can't talk to folks whenever I want. I preferred DA:O to ME2 because I felt much more immediately connected to my companions. No one wanted to talk to me in ME2, not even those I knew from the first game. It was rather isolating and it made me a bit resentful of those companions.

I think an ideal system would allow us to at least ask basic information of our companions wherever we want. Important conversations (like Alistair's rose) could be restricted to their home base. This would allow very cinematic conversations to take place, but it would also allow our PCs to be a little social.

[The Gentle Ben]

highcastle wrote....
I think an ideal system would allow us to at least ask basic information of our companions wherever we want. Important conversations (like Alistair's rose) could be restricted to their home base. This would allow very cinematic conversations to take place, but it would also allow our PCs to be a little social.

The problem with this is, as felfenix said, that you couldn't actually talk to your party members whenever you wanted, you could merely initiate a cinematic, but if you'd already maxed out the available conversations you were simply exposed to the rote lines. The dialogue wasn't unlimited and it won't be here, this is simply a method to try and stagger and frame the dialogue options in a way that's relevant to plot progression and setting.

I think some of those with concerns are making a mistake in distinguishing between a framing of the setting and a lack of content. It is still the writers' and developers' responsibility to create atmosphere, and dialogue is one means of this, which there is no reason to expect will be neglected. I think the impact in practice will prove to be much less than is perceived. There will still be dialogue, both cinematic and non-cinematic as quests are performed, NPC are interacted with, and settings are explored. All that has really been changed is the player's ability to initiate the self-same dialogue wherever they desire (you still control the if and the when).

Not only does this provide the potential to improve conversations, by making use of the setting, but it relieves Bioware of the need to make everywhere in game capable of cinematic dialogue, which regardless of your personal approval or disapproval of that feature, was in my opinion a "feature" far more costly in resources than it was worth.

As an example: if DA:O had been designed under the proposed system, I would expect Morrigan, on approaching the circle tower, to initiate a conversation about Flemith's Grimoire, much as Alistar imparted his heritage on the approach to redcliffe. The cinematic dialogue still exists, it simply exists within a prepared setting and is tied more closely and relevantly to the immediate plot developments.

Modifié par The Gentle Ben, 06 janvier 2011 - 04:24 .

[dogbanks]

I honestly couldn't see myself sitting through another Awakening conversation style. It overall killed the game for me. I loved getting to know my characters. The amount of depth it had was what attracted me to DA in the first place. I'm rather upset about the change to a wheel style chat system. I like having my words exactly laid out for me, and not just some rough summary of what my character plan to says. A mixture of the two as they seem to be leading to is definitely a good change from Awakening but eh, we'll see how it plays out on March 8th.

[alickar]

if tht happens it will fail it was too short =/

[TeamLexana]

Aww, that's too bad that the conversations are gonna be Mass Effect 2ish, which was my biggest concern about getting a voiced character cuz I'd imagine the abilitiy to make those full vids of them talking happen anywhere in the game pretty hard to do, as opposed to reducing them to only happen in one certain area.



For me, I really didn't like that in ME2, it made talking to my companions more of a chore then a natural progression of our relationship like I felt I got in DA. I'd have to stop fighting crap and literally go back and fourth for 40 mins and hit loading screen, loading screen, to get to so in so so to talk about some random crap just cuz that convo has to be tagged complete before u get the next convo where they give u the loyalty mission and since that stuff was triggered by completing missions, I'd have to run around and hit loading screen, loading screen, to get to all of them that could in that one swoop - not cuz I WANTED to sit and talk them for 40 mins but because I HAD to do. Oh god, I remember my first playthrough where I didn't get the timing right and triggered the loyaly conflicts but couldn't resolve them for lack of paragon/renegede points and then triggered then sucide mission and damn near half my team died on it, lol. I can laugh now but I pissed at the time, haha.

[rak72]

Another disappointing tid bit of information. I enjoyed breaking up the monotony of a dungeon crawl with a little chit chat. Or giving Alistair a kiss after a difficult battle. Like someone above said - if you don't want to talk in the dungeon, don't click. I have a feeling I better not loose my DAO disk - it will still be getting a lot of use.

[thompsonaf]

Wait...has Gaidor confirmed the existence of separate homes/bases for each character? Does Hawke get his own MTV Crib?

[Eveangaline]

So, does this mean we can't talk with our people while we're out and about? I find that kind of silly, I like being able to have diologue while we're visiting strange new places, and just after killing things..or just before killing things, or while still killing things.

[Saibh]

thompsonaf wrote...

Wait...has Gaidor confirmed the existence of separate homes/bases for each character? Does Hawke get his own MTV Crib?

*** POTENTIAL SPOILERS, highlight to read

Hawke lives in the Amell estate in Kirkwall. Presumably Carver/Bethany live there as well. Companions have their own bases (although, I think Isabela and Varric share a base in the tavern, don't they?).

*** END SPOILERS

Modifié par Saibh, 12 janvier 2011 - 01:25 .

[Face of Evil]

Awakening's system had its strengths. The weakness of the system in Origins was that you could essentially race through the dialogue tree by repeatedly clicking on party members. Plus, you could start somewhat intimate banters in incredibly inappropriate settings, like hearing Alistair admit he loves you in the middle of the Deep Roads.



Awakenings forced you to stretch out your interactions with your supporting cast members, which helped make it feel like you were getting to know these people more and more as time went on.



The weakness of Awakening's system to me was that you had to basically go on a scavenger hunt for these conversation points. I don't object to clicking on trees and rocks to start party banter, but if you weren't constantly looking out for conversation points, you might miss them.

[rak72]

I think keeping things like the Alistair's rose in the home base is fine. But I don't see why we can't have minor conversations in randome places.

[steve1945]

I personally prefer Dragon Age 1s system of dialoge. The ability to speak to my companions at any time really made me feel like I was the character I was playing. Walking into Lothering speaking to Morrigan about what her life was like in the swamps, or conversing with Allistar in the market really made me feel like I was in touch with the characters. I would often just strike up conversations to see if they had anything new to tell me, so excited I was to hear their dialoge.



When I purchased Awakening I was taken aback by how utterly terrible the dialoge system was for it. Really horrendous in my opinion, and now it seems we have confirmed a new dialog system which we can't speak to our companions outside the "base" frankly im a tad turned out. More then a tad I should say. More like a medium amount. Perhaps a pint turned out.