153 réponses à ce sujet

[Collider]

I liked that the elves were shorter.

[Haley Starshine]

People are still attached to the strict contemporary-TV ideas of beauty.. So elves MUST be same size as humans if they are romanceable... I won't even go for the color of the skin issue, but putting it short: Distinct racial physiology IS NOT an opportunity to explore different standards of beauty, because people usually don't tolerate differences when it comes to romance... Only when it comes to visual gaming fun..



How disappointed people would be if the so-talked-about Fenrir was 1.50m tall, or if the romance option for boys was a dwarf girl, or etc?



Simple as that =P

[Generic Guy]

AlexXIV wrote...

Generic Guy wrote...

Follow Me on Twitter wrote...

I completely agree elves should be the same height as humans.

Why exactly? Why is them being shorter than humans such a bad thing?

Why is them being same size a bad thing?

You people just argue for your preference which is ok, but why are you asking then why other people prefer other things?

I give you a couple of reasons though. For once, same size, same animation looks better and is less effort. Also for example for romances if I played an elf every human woman would be taller. Same if I played a human female every elf would be smaller. Same size is just unproblematic. Why would you make an effort to make things complicated? You were the one who said different elven races would just make them more stereotypical, and now you think it is better that elves are smaller? Because that's not stereotypical?

I explained in my first post why I prefer Elves to be shorter, so asked why you did and apparently it was mostly because it ruined a romance fantasy you have about elves.
As for finding sub-races stereotypical. A sub-race does pigeonholed  a race in what they can and can’t be and makes the physical differences between elves superficial at best. Elves are supposed to be more removed from humanity, so having them on average be more lithe and short does make them stand out as different from people.

[TJPags]

Xewaka wrote...

drahelvete wrote...

Xewaka wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Xewaka wrote...

Follow Me on Twitter wrote...
I completely agree elves should be the same height as humans.

Why?

Why not?

Because they're different species and ough to have some distinguishing features?

Pointy ears, catlike eyes (at least in DA2) and slighter frames aren't enough?

So why not make dwarves as tall as humans as well? They also have hairier males, more robust frames, and rounder faces.

But- they're dwarves. . . . .

[Collider]

Haley Starshine wrote...

People are still attached to the strict contemporary-TV ideas of beauty.. So elves MUST be same size as humans if they are romanceable... I won't even go for the color of the skin issue, but putting it short: Distinct racial physiology IS NOT an opportunity to explore different standards of beauty, because people usually don't tolerate differences when it comes to romance... Only when it comes to visual gaming fun..

How disappointed people would be if the so-talked-about Fenrir was 1.50m tall, or if the romance option for boys was a dwarf girl, or etc?

Simple as that =P

Because no one romanced Zevran, right?
And no one likes the idea of romancing Sigrun or Varric, correct?

[Xewaka]

AlexXIV wrote...

Xewaka wrote...

drahelvete wrote...

Xewaka wrote...
Because they're different species and ough to have some distinguishing features?

Pointy ears, catlike eyes (at least in DA2) and slighter frames aren't enough?

So why not make dwarves as tall as humans as well? They also have hairier males, more robust frames, and rounder faces.

Because dwarves are small people, elves are not. In myth elves look just like humans. You can read it up if you want. No pointy ears, they are not smaller, not thinner, not even more beautiful if I am not all wrong.
I don't know where the idea comes from that elves must look cute.

Please point me to a fiable source for the italized part. Closest I got is by (who else?) Terry Pratchett:

Elves are wonderful. They provoke wonder.

Elves are marvellous. They cause marvels.

Elves are fantastic. They create fantasies.

Elves are glamorous. They project glamour.

Elves are enchanting. They weave enchantment.

Elves are terrific. They beget terror.

Nowhere it says that Elves are nice.

[Xewaka]

TJPags wrote...
But- they're dwarves. . . . .

My point exactly.

[drahelvete]

AlexXIV wrote...

Xewaka wrote...

drahelvete wrote...

Xewaka wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Xewaka wrote...

Follow Me on Twitter wrote...
I completely agree elves should be the same height as humans.

Why?

Why not?

Because they're different species and ough to have some distinguishing features?

Pointy ears, catlike eyes (at least in DA2) and slighter frames aren't enough?

So why not make dwarves as tall as humans as well? They also have hairier males, more robust frames, and rounder faces.

Because dwarves are small people, elves are not. In myth elves look just like humans. You can read it up if you want. No pointy ears, they are not smaller, not thinner, not even more beautiful if I am not all wrong.

I don't know where the idea comes from that elves must look cute.

Their beauty is their one defining physical trait. The rest was correct however.
They could also grow beards (in fact, I don't think I have seen a single picture of a norse elf without a beard).

[Follow Me on Twitter]

It was on myth busters.

[AlexXIV]

Generic Guy wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Generic Guy wrote...

Follow Me on Twitter wrote...

I completely agree elves should be the same height as humans.

Why exactly? Why is them being shorter than humans such a bad thing?

Why is them being same size a bad thing?

You people just argue for your preference which is ok, but why are you asking then why other people prefer other things?

I give you a couple of reasons though. For once, same size, same animation looks better and is less effort. Also for example for romances if I played an elf every human woman would be taller. Same if I played a human female every elf would be smaller. Same size is just unproblematic. Why would you make an effort to make things complicated? You were the one who said different elven races would just make them more stereotypical, and now you think it is better that elves are smaller? Because that's not stereotypical?

I explained in my first post why I prefer Elves to be shorter, so asked why you did and apparently it was mostly because it ruined a romance fantasy you have about elves.
As for finding sub-races stereotypical. A sub-race does pigeonholed  a race in what they can and can’t be and makes the physical differences between elves superficial at best. Elves are supposed to be more removed from humanity, so having them on average be more lithe and short does make them stand out as different from people.

I gave you more than one reason and I don't remember that I gave any rating in what is most important for me. As I said you argue just for your cause, and I have no interest in that. There are good reasons why they should be same size and not really any good reason why not. I am not even going to mention here that people obviously forgot that humans can in real life be anything between 1 meter and 2.50 or something. So argueing why elves should be smaller than humans is just the most pointless thing in the world. But I guess that won't keep anyone from doing it anyway.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 06 janvier 2011 - 02:54 .

[Xewaka]

drahelvete wrote...
Their beauty is their one defining physical trait. The rest was correct however.
They could also grow beards (in fact, I don't think I have seen a single picture of a norse elf without a beard).

Unless I have my mythology messed up, the dwarves in the original Nordic myths were closer to Noldo than to Khazad.

[Generic Guy]

AlexXIV wrote...

Generic Guy wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Generic Guy wrote...

Follow Me on Twitter wrote...

I completely agree elves should be the same height as humans.

Why exactly? Why is them being shorter than humans such a bad thing?

Why is them being same size a bad thing?

You people just argue for your preference which is ok, but why are you asking then why other people prefer other things?

I give you a couple of reasons though. For once, same size, same animation looks better and is less effort. Also for example for romances if I played an elf every human woman would be taller. Same if I played a human female every elf would be smaller. Same size is just unproblematic. Why would you make an effort to make things complicated? You were the one who said different elven races would just make them more stereotypical, and now you think it is better that elves are smaller? Because that's not stereotypical?

I explained in my first post why I prefer Elves to be shorter, so asked why you did and apparently it was mostly because it ruined a romance fantasy you have about elves.
As for finding sub-races stereotypical. A sub-race does pigeonholed  a race in what they can and can’t be and makes the physical differences between elves superficial at best. Elves are supposed to be more removed from humanity, so having them on average be more lithe and short does make them stand out as different from people.

I gave you more than one reason and I don't remember that I gave any rating in what is most important for me. As I said you argue just for your cause, and I have no interest in that. There are good reasons why they should be same size and not really any good reason why not. I am not even going to mention here that people obviously forgot that humans can in real life be anything between 1 meter and 2.50 or something. So argueing why elves should be smaller than humans is just the most pointless thing in the world. But I guess that won't keep anyone from doing it anyway.

If you think it’s pointless to argue about it why post in a thread devoted to the subject in the first place. Also I’m sorry if it sounds like I’m attacking your opinion, as your starting to sound more defensive, trust me I take this argument as about as seriously as whether I like Kirk or Picard more. I ignored your reason for making it easier on the programmers because that’s the reason we ended up with ape armed Dwarves

[drahelvete]

Xewaka wrote...

drahelvete wrote...
Their beauty is their one defining physical trait. The rest was correct however.
They could also grow beards (in fact, I don't think I have seen a single picture of a norse elf without a beard).

Unless I have my mythology messed up, the dwarves in the original Nordic myths were closer to Noldo than to Khazad.

The dwarfs were actually elfs. They were also known as "dark elfs" or "black elfs".
They were the same size as regular elfs (and humans). That didn't change until the middle ages. The Old Norse term for dwarves, "dvergar", is the etymological source of our (edit: I'm Scandinavian) word for little people.

But I'm not arguing that elves should be tall because it's more in keeping with the original myths, or because it was that way in LotR. I want tall elves simply because it's what I prefer.
And I won't be mad if they're not tall in DA2. I was just curious, since it looked like they were the same size as humans in that picture.

Modifié par drahelvete, 06 janvier 2011 - 03:17 .

[AlexXIV]

Xewaka wrote...
Please point me to a fiable source for the italized part. Closest I got is by (who else?) Terry Pratchett:

You could look it up in wikipedia or google for nordic mythology, or celtic mythology. I think these were the first ones in which elves appeared. They got cutified later, sort of changed depending on the epoche. I think the romantic is to blame. Originally though they were what you'd see as demons, beings which can switch between the mortal world and the ghost world.. Often appearing in human shape, but they could in theory have any size.Some were good some were evil, some beautiful, some not so. Not much difference to other living beings. Which is probably not a big surprise considering who invented them.

Anyway, doesn't change my point that it would be easiest, and best if they were human sized. And that's why it is the best solution because everything else is just a matter how people like them to be. And about that you can argue until you turn black.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 06 janvier 2011 - 03:17 .

[addiction21]

Generic Guy wrote...

If you think it’s pointless to argue about it why post in a thread devoted to the subject in the first place. Also I’m sorry if it sounds like I’m attacking your opinion, as your starting to sound more defensive, trust me I take this argument as about as seriously as whether I like Kirk or Picard more. I ignored your reason for making it easier on the programmers because that’s the reason we ended up with ape armed Dwarves

Picard.   

*hides in a corner*

[Xewaka]

AlexXIV wrote...

Xewaka wrote...
Please point me to a fiable source for the italized part. Closest I got is by (who else?) Terry Pratchett:

You could look it up in wikipedia or google for nordic mythology, or celtic mythology. I think these were the first ones in which elves appeared. They got cutified later, sort of changed depending on the epoche. I think the romantic is to blame. Originally though they were what you'd see as demons, beings which can switch between the mortal world and the ghost world.. Often appearing in human shape, but they could in theory have any size.Some were good some were evil, some beautiful, some not so. Not much difference to other living beings. Which is probably not a big surprise considering who invented them.
Anyway, doesn't change my point that it would be easiest, and best if they were human sized. And that's why it is the best solution because everything else is just a matter how people like them to be. And about that you can argue until you turn black.

I do remember them being called "the Fair Folk" because not using a flattering name would draw their ire, and as myths progressed, they actually became "fair" (as in good looking).
Considering that the rig for a short elf is already made and that the number of models to fit in that rig has been greatly reduced (no elf playing character plus no companion customization means fixed looks for all elves), and that elven models would probably be species-exclusive, I fail to see how having them human-sized saves more time.
And the reason I want them to keep them short is because then species' shilouettes are more distinguishable.

Modifié par Xewaka, 06 janvier 2011 - 03:24 .

[AlexXIV]

Generic Guy wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Generic Guy wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Generic Guy wrote...

Follow Me on Twitter wrote...

I completely agree elves should be the same height as humans.

Why exactly? Why is them being shorter than humans such a bad thing?

Why is them being same size a bad thing?

You people just argue for your preference which is ok, but why are you asking then why other people prefer other things?

I give you a couple of reasons though. For once, same size, same animation looks better and is less effort. Also for example for romances if I played an elf every human woman would be taller. Same if I played a human female every elf would be smaller. Same size is just unproblematic. Why would you make an effort to make things complicated? You were the one who said different elven races would just make them more stereotypical, and now you think it is better that elves are smaller? Because that's not stereotypical?

I explained in my first post why I prefer Elves to be shorter, so asked why you did and apparently it was mostly because it ruined a romance fantasy you have about elves.
As for finding sub-races stereotypical. A sub-race does pigeonholed  a race in what they can and can’t be and makes the physical differences between elves superficial at best. Elves are supposed to be more removed from humanity, so having them on average be more lithe and short does make them stand out as different from people.

I gave you more than one reason and I don't remember that I gave any rating in what is most important for me. As I said you argue just for your cause, and I have no interest in that. There are good reasons why they should be same size and not really any good reason why not. I am not even going to mention here that people obviously forgot that humans can in real life be anything between 1 meter and 2.50 or something. So argueing why elves should be smaller than humans is just the most pointless thing in the world. But I guess that won't keep anyone from doing it anyway.

If you think it’s pointless to argue about it why post in a thread devoted to the subject in the first place. Also I’m sorry if it sounds like I’m attacking your opinion, as your starting to sound more defensive, trust me I take this argument as about as seriously as whether I like Kirk or Picard more. I ignored your reason for making it easier on the programmers because that’s the reason we ended up with ape armed Dwarves

I was giving my opinion and I was getting defensive when you claimed my main reason is romance. Which is one of my reasons, but not the main one. How and why you said that I don't know, but looks to me like you wanted to make my points look cheap. I posted here because I said my opinion, and I'd even argue if you did it with style.

[drahelvete]

Xewaka wrote...


I do remember them being called "the Fair Folk" because not using a flattering name would draw their ire, and as myths progressed, they actually became "fair" (as in good looking).

Those would be the Celtic "elfs" (fairies) which aren't, in the strictest sense of the word, elfs.
Tolkien based his elves on both Norse elfs and Celtic fairies (the sídhe, IIRC).
The Norse elfs are also called "the fairest of all people", but in that case it actually is because they are beautiful.
If you don't believe me, read the The Saga of Hrolf Kraki or The Saga of Thorstein, Viking's Son.

Modifié par drahelvete, 06 janvier 2011 - 03:46 .

[AlexXIV]

Xewaka wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Xewaka wrote...
Please point me to a fiable source for the italized part. Closest I got is by (who else?) Terry Pratchett:

You could look it up in wikipedia or google for nordic mythology, or celtic mythology. I think these were the first ones in which elves appeared. They got cutified later, sort of changed depending on the epoche. I think the romantic is to blame. Originally though they were what you'd see as demons, beings which can switch between the mortal world and the ghost world.. Often appearing in human shape, but they could in theory have any size.Some were good some were evil, some beautiful, some not so. Not much difference to other living beings. Which is probably not a big surprise considering who invented them.
Anyway, doesn't change my point that it would be easiest, and best if they were human sized. And that's why it is the best solution because everything else is just a matter how people like them to be. And about that you can argue until you turn black.

I do remember them being called "the Fair Folk" because not using a flattering name would draw their ire, and as myths progressed, they actually became "fair" (as in good looking).
Considering that the rig for a short elf is already made and that the number of models to fit in that rig has been greatly reduced (no elf playing character plus no companion customization means fixed looks for all elves), and that elven models would probably be species-exclusive, I fail to see how having them human-sized saves more time.
And the reason I want them to keep them short is because then species' shilouettes are more distinguishable.

I couldn't say what is made or what they made. But I know if they made them human sized to begin with it would have been easier

Anyway it is fantasy so they could have any size Bioware wishes and it is their decission. I just don't think their size should be the thing that distinguishes them, since, as I said, humans have different sizes. And so can elves.

[Xewaka]

AlexXIV wrote...

I couldn't say what is made or what they made. But I know if they made them human sized to begin with it would have been easier

Anyway it is fantasy so they could have any size Bioware wishes and it is their decission. I just don't think their size should be the thing that distinguishes them, since, as I said, humans have different sizes. And so can elves.

However, since I very much doubt they'll give us height and width sliders for character creation, I think we'll be given only average height people for species and gender.

[AlexXIV]

Xewaka wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

I couldn't say what is made or what they made. But I know if they made them human sized to begin with it would have been easier

Anyway it is fantasy so they could have any size Bioware wishes and it is their decission. I just don't think their size should be the thing that distinguishes them, since, as I said, humans have different sizes. And so can elves.

However, since I very much doubt they'll give us height and width sliders for character creation, I think we'll be given only average height people for species and gender.

Well in the concept art humans and elves have the same size, and I guess there are a reason for it.

[Maria Caliban]

Haley Starshine wrote...

People are still attached to the strict contemporary-TV ideas of beauty.. So elves MUST be same size as humans if they are romanceable... I won't even go for the color of the skin issue, but putting it short: Distinct racial physiology IS NOT an opportunity to explore different standards of beauty, because people usually don't tolerate differences when it comes to romance... Only when it comes to visual gaming fun..

How disappointed people would be if the so-talked-about Fenrir was 1.50m tall, or if the romance option for boys was a dwarf girl, or etc?

Simple as that =P

/is sad

[Urazz]

GodWood wrote...

And yet people are icked out by Aveline...

Follow Me on Twitter wrote...
Plus, i'm pretty sure they reproduce asexually or something i really can't picture Sten with a woman and i really dont want to.

Lot's of women thought Sten was the sexiest man in DA:O.

I think it's more to deal with the clothing and hair style she has on her default look than her body I think.  Personally, I think she looks fairly attractive but isn't exotically so like Isabela.