64 réponses à ce sujet

[Angband21]

antigravitycat wrote...

Baher of Glory wrote...

For Drakensang.

http://www.dsa-drake...lfile&fileid=19

It can be applied after installing patch 1.02

Thank you! 

The graphics are not bad at all, not as glitzy as DA, but they are pleasing to the eye. And a bonus, I have yet to CTD!
A heck of a lot harder battles. I loved the old ROA series where you were challenged right to the end. Your team never became Uber warriors.

Modifié par Angband21, 18 février 2011 - 01:44 .

[Eledran]

I tried it recently after a lot of praise for it in certain "circles".

It doesn't succeed to impress me: the combat is painfully slow (one dude hits, wait three seconds, other dude hits) and the story just isn't very moving, nor does it contain a host of interesting characters imo.

Honestly, it reminds me of a boring, slowed down version of Neverwinter Nights 2, the whole city arc reminds me of a similar arc in the original version of that game even.

I quit playing it after about 20 hours in or so, it just bores the crap out of me. I don't care about whether or not it is supposed to be hardcore, even Baldur's Gate and other original "hardcore" rpg's were faster paced than this thing.

Modifié par Eledran, 19 février 2011 - 12:25 .

[Angband21]

Its a lot like the older RPGs with a lot of travelling, less emphasis on combat. It is a game that takes time to involve yourself in. It reminded me of Darkstone in a lot of ways.

[Basher of Glory]

Admitted: This game is not everyone's piece of cake.
Although I do not agree fully to Eledran's remarks, I can see, where they come from in regard of combat.

For this just remember NWN 2: There were severe discussions about the fact, that Obsidian did not implement "eye candy animations"; in NWN 1 the melee-fighters always did something, which looked like dodging and parrying. But it was nothing - just there to bypass the long phases of inactivitiy of a low level character between the attacks.
Obsidian skipped this in NWN 2 and there we had it: A low fighter attacking the enemy and then standing still for some seconds; the enemy was also low level and suffered the same fate: Just one attack per turn. Thus, they stood there, staring into the other's eyes


Of course this annoyed the hell out of gamers, who came from FPS and other action games and gave a f... for AD&D-rules.

The same dilemma we find in Drakensang: Although more complex, the DSA-rules are similar to AD&D-rules.
A fighter newbie with a huge weapon IS slow, and that is shown correctly - and again, the action-lovers are annoyed.

Understandable. OTOH, a player who loves complex rules, will love this game as he loved straight AD&D-games.

The developers tried to "soften" up the rules a bit to make the game more attractive to casual players and those, who prefer fast paced action. Not only in my eyes this compromise pissed off both:
The "hardcore DSA-community" said, it's "dumbed down", the lover of fast paced action said, it's still "too boring and slow".

Nevertheless, playing these kinds of games since about 20 years now, I'd give it 85 out of 100.

Modifié par Baher of Glory, 19 février 2011 - 02:45 .

[Angband21]

Baher of Glory wrote...

Admitted: This game is not everyone's piece of cake.
Although I do not agree fully to Eledran's remarks, I can see, where they come from in regard of combat.

For this just remember NWN 2: There were severe discussions about the fact, that Obsidian did not implement "eye candy animations"; in NWN 1 the melee-fighters always did something, which looked like dodging and parrying. But it was nothing - just there to bypass the long phases of inactivitiy of a low level character between the attacks.
Obsidian skipped this in NWN 2 and there we had it: A low fighter attacking the enemy and then standing still for some seconds; the enemy was also low level and suffered the same fate: Just one attack per turn. Thus, they stood there, staring into the other's eyes


Of course this annoyed the hell out of gamers, who came from FPS and other action games and gave a f... for AD&D-rules.

The same dilemma we find in Drakensang: Although more complex, the DSA-rules are similar to AD&D-rules.
A fighter newbie with a huge weapon IS slow, and that is shown correctly - and again, the action-lovers are annoyed.

Understandable. OTOH, a player who loves complex rules, will love this game as he loved straight AD&D-games.

The developers tried to "soften" up the rules a bit to make the game more attractive to casual players and those, who prefer fast paced action. Not only in my eyes this compromise pissed off both:
The "hardcore DSA-community" said, it's "dumbed down", the lover of fast paced action said, it's still "too boring and slow".

Nevertheless, playing these kinds of games since about 20 years now, I'd give it 85 out of 100.

If you remember playing ROA series, it was the same, the low level characters took ages to make their moves. One thing the developers of Drakensang did was do away with the complex character creator of the ROA series. Each character in that game could take over two hours to create the "best" die roll character. I recall spending an entire day in character creation before starting a game. Don't know if modern gamers would have the patience to do that. They have softened the rules and it shows.
But it is still, for me, a delightful visit to past gaming days before glitz became more important than complexity.

[Basher of Glory]

Well, we share the same experiences... one day or two only for character creation, I guess, these times have gone for ever.

Of course the party of six (!) went through all sequels until the end!



It was - not only in my eyes - a big mistake to leave this feature entirely out of the game. At least they could have implemented it as an option.



I guess, one of the reasons why BIOWARE left AD&D behind and changed to the current "DA:O-rules" was the fact, that it is not easy if not impossible to make a "fast paced" game within the AD&D-rules. Many discussions on the old BIO board showed, that even veteran AD&D-players disliked the phases of zero action during the low levels.



It's the same with DSA-rules, as far as someone looks only at "fast paced" action.



I guess, I belong to a minority of gamers, who actually like that kind of stuff, because the feeling of an achievement is much stronger, when the same lowbie character starts with second attacks etc.



One other point: Drakensang showed, that it IS possible to bring at least a bit of realism into combat.

The bows and x-bows had bowstrings and... they needed arrows! Even the most crappiest arrows must be either purchased or crafted.

I wonder, if DA II will have this.

[Enigma1980]

That video is from the first Drakensang game. It was released before DA:O came out. There is a new Drakensang called the the River of Time currently available for digital download that has much better graphics. The gameplay is still the same though. Game starts slow but ends up quite fun.

[Basher of Glory]

"The River of Time" is actually a prequel, explaining, how the scenario in the main game evolved.

For this prequel there is finally a add-on, called "Phileason's Secret". With this add-in many features and skills of the prequel start to make sense.

Together the three parts are good for 100+ gaming hours.

[Aran Linvail]

Cool , im going to try this game , i never have heard of before , thanks for the video and explanations...

[Basher of Glory]

Just to avoid confusion because of my former post:

If you purchase all parts, the correct order to play is

1) Main game

2) River of Time with the Phileason expansion



Don't hesitate to ask, if you have problems.

[Angband21]

Baher of Glory wrote...

Well, we share the same experiences... one day or two only for character creation, I guess, these times have gone for ever.
Of course the party of six (!) went through all sequels until the end!

It was - not only in my eyes - a big mistake to leave this feature entirely out of the game. At least they could have implemented it as an option.

I guess, one of the reasons why BIOWARE left AD&D behind and changed to the current "DA:O-rules" was the fact, that it is not easy if not impossible to make a "fast paced" game within the AD&D-rules. Many discussions on the old BIO board showed, that even veteran AD&D-players disliked the phases of zero action during the low levels.

It's the same with DSA-rules, as far as someone looks only at "fast paced" action.

I guess, I belong to a minority of gamers, who actually like that kind of stuff, because the feeling of an achievement is much stronger, when the same lowbie character starts with second attacks etc.

One other point: Drakensang showed, that it IS possible to bring at least a bit of realism into combat.
The bows and x-bows had bowstrings and... they needed arrows! Even the most crappiest arrows must be either purchased or crafted.
I wonder, if DA II will have this.

You really felt they were your party by the time you finally created your characters. And having them carry over through all the games made them so much more special.

I feel the same way, the low level characters achievements meant something, when they gained any increase.
The realism is nice and having played Drakensang, I love the way when you are walking through a field, partridges/grouse fly up from under your feet, just as they did when I was a kid walking through a pasture.

[Basher of Glory]

double post, sorry

Modifié par Baher of Glory, 20 février 2011 - 10:42 .

[Basher of Glory]

Yup, all in all it is IMO one of the most underestimated games of the past 10 years.
Perhaps you followed the discussions about it's details on
http://forum.dtp-ent...96378834a848010

I posted there as "Anjy" and remember many controversial thoughts about the game.
For some the social aspect was not enough represented, for others - the ususal stuff - combat was too slow and tedious, again others missed their "avenging blade of the n00b-slasher +5" and again for others crafting was too much / too little.

Isn't that a sign for a well designed game? 

Modifié par Baher of Glory, 20 février 2011 - 10:43 .

[Angband21]

Baher of Glory wrote...

Yup, all in all it is IMO one of the most underestimated games of the past 10 years.
Perhaps you followed the discussions about it's details on
http://forum.dtp-ent...96378834a848010

I posted there as "Anjy" and remember many controversial thoughts about the game.
For some the social aspect was not enough represented, for others - the ususal stuff - combat was too slow and tedious, again others missed their "avenging blade of the n00b-slasher +5" and again for others crafting was too much / too little.

Isn't that a sign for a well designed game? 

Yep.  Didn't get in on the discussions, but there is always the complaints from the hack/slash oriented crowd and social crowd over the balance of any game. Me, I love complexity in the gaming rules, and the background visuals.

[Basher of Glory]

Angband21 wrote...

Me, I love complexity in the gaming rules

As it seems, we are an endangered species, because nowadays "complexity" and "game" is for lots of people mutually excluding.

[Angband21]

Baher of Glory wrote...

Angband21 wrote...

Me, I love complexity in the gaming rules

As it seems, we are an endangered species, because nowadays "complexity" and "game" is for lots of people mutually excluding.

My son has the same lament. His complaint "why are games being dumbed down?"

[Basher of Glory]

The good news: The game we talk about is not really "dumbed down". Only the PnP-faction and *some* veteran players of the ROA-trilogy complained about some things.
I personally missed only the character generation, anything else was ok.
I saw many posts of FPS-players complaining about "Drakensang (DS) is too hard", because they missed their *fast paced* rushing in, nuking, bombing and perforating anything within a second or two.
For me a clear sign, that DS is a good game

Modifié par Baher of Glory, 21 février 2011 - 09:28 .

[Angband21]

Baher of Glory wrote...

The good news: The game we talk about is not really "dumbed down". Only the PnP-faction and *some* veteran players of the ROA-trilogy complained about some things.
I personally missed only the character generation, anything else was ok.
I saw many posts of FPS-players complaining about "Drakensang (DS) is too hard", because they missed their *fast paced* rushing in, nuking, bombing and perforating anything within a second or two.
For me a clear sign, that DS is a good game

The fights are definitely not in the "nuke in a second" category. You earn every little experience point in the game. Lots of opportunities for crafting various things including potions and arrows etc. The pace is slower, but you feel as though you are having to struggle, as it should. Not be an Uber Warrior by level 2.

[Basher of Glory]

uhm... do I understand correctly:

You actually play the game yet?

[Angband21]

Baher of Glory wrote...

uhm... do I understand correctly:
You actually play the game yet?

I have Drakensang running now, and have River of Time installed but not played. Still no luck finding the add on in english.

Right now I am in the Praois square about to enter Ardo's home now that I have chased down the baddies who were murdering various people. Ardo's old butler is waiting for me to take over the estate. I am playing a female elementalist. So yes, I feel i have accomplished a lot even though I only a small part of the way into the game.

[Basher of Glory]

Hmm... ele needs LOTS of gold later on to purchase some good, advanced spells. So, the challenge to obtain gold is even greater (btw, you noticed that some 100 of gold are considered "awfully rich", right?)



Question: Did you manage to apply both, latest patch and hi res pack?

[Angband21]

Baher of Glory wrote...

Hmm... ele needs LOTS of gold later on to purchase some good, advanced spells. So, the challenge to obtain gold is even greater (btw, you noticed that some 100 of gold are considered "awfully rich", right?)

Question: Did you manage to apply both, latest patch and hi res pack?

Both res and patch done. Gold was tough to get in ROA and it is just as tough to get or even harder to get in this one. You can't "buy" your way to a uber-warrior or mage. Right now my mage has picked up about 4 spells on top of what she came with, and has learned alchemy. Just achieved level 4 and got a job at the brewery. Drinks are on me! and I have about 28 Ducats and am saving them for later. For the time being, it is save money, accumulate  EP.

[Basher of Glory]

Brewery.... is it the thing with all these rats?

[Angband21]

Baher of Glory wrote...

Brewery.... is it the thing with all these rats?

Yes. I'm about 4 or 5 levels below the cellar. And fighting waves of black wolf rats. It's a "fight, revive a couple of characters, heal up, and move to next fight" dungeon crawl. I may have to retreat and come back later to finish it. I'm having two character die each wave of rats.

[Eber]

The rats are smarter than any humanoid opponents. They focus fire your weakest character with deadly purpose.