352 réponses à ce sujet

[Rip504]

The Citadel Council gave Shepard the power of the Spectres. Why,because the governing body of Citadel space thinks Shepard is "just" enough to make the right choice. (Rogue Spectres such as Saren are brought to justice. NOT SHEPARD.)

My Shepard did. Exposing Tali's father, exposes his secrets. Secrets that will be used to kill the Geth. Secrets that would have been lost if you had not opened your mouth. Now maybe the Quarians will have an unfair advantage against the Geth. Thanks to Shepard.

It's pre-school Every action has a reaction,and you need to stand up and accept responsiblity for yours.

If telling the truth kills millions,and lying does not. Lying is the right choice. But you have an obligation to tell the truth,and cost millions their lives. Cool beans dude. Great job!

My Shepard never lied at "Tali's" trial. The trial was about "Tali's exile","not her father". So I felt that none of the info I found would help Tali in her trail. And it didn't,nor wouldn't.(help)


If I'm on trial for murder,and I told and proved to the court my friend had also helped commit murder. The court would not punish him without a seprate trail,therefor you are asking for an unjust justice to be layed down. In name of the Truth? Just because it is "truth" does not make it right.

The way I consider 70% of the ppl on this website in my mind is truth. I truly feel a certain way about 70% of the ppl on this site. Does that make it right? Or should I tell you how I truly feel about 70% of the ppl on this site. Even after the moderators have asked me not to. It is the truth and as you say I must speak the truth,but this very website has rules against it.

Not to mention little things I know about certain ppl here and there. It is truth. It would hurt them for no reason,but it is truth. So I must speak it.

Modifié par Rip504, 07 janvier 2011 - 12:31 .

[Eddo36]

You wrote...

My Shepard did. Exposing Tali's father, exposes his secrets. Secrets that will be used to kill the Geth. Secrets that would have been lost if you had not opened your mouth. Now maybe the Quarians will have an unfair advantage against the Geth. Thanks to Shepard.

Hate to say you went 180-degrees from Correctland.

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Admiral_Daro'Xen_vas_Moreh

After Tali's trial is complete, Admiral Xen sends a message to Commander Shepard's terminal that she did some searching of her own aboard the Alarei. She cryptically states that had Shepard presented the results of Rael'Zorah's research, humanity would've reaped the benefits, instead, they "will watch from a distance as the quarian people reclaim not just their homeworld, but the largest synthetic army in the galaxy".

Note that if Tali's father is outed during the trial, Xen (if spoken to) will still chastise Shepard for revealing the nature of Rael's work in public. In this case, it is likely the research will be purged, or at least be too politically volatile for her to take advantage of.

And Migrant Fleet don't fall under Spectre/Council jurisdiction, nor does Terminus System. Spectre status is a Council Space thing.

Their place, their laws.  If you don't agree with it, don't go there.

Only good you get from covering up war criminal evidence is teaching a future Quarian Admiral (Tali) that some people are above the law. That is if she doesn't get the exile.

Modifié par Eddo36, 07 janvier 2011 - 12:40 .

[Lewie]

As a friend of Tali i did what she asked, unless Tali is completely stupid and can't see consequences herself. Gaining Talis loyalty means hiding what her father did yet exposing others. If you don't do as Tali asks you shame a whole fleet that her father served on which, when you see the evidence for yourself is not black and white. Rael was not trying to create a war but work technology, maybe to his own admission to fix things.



They knew the evidence was there anyway and the Quarian race is not Shepards responsibility. I trust Tali and figured that if the Quarians are so upstanding then its about time they sorted their own messes out, after the geth going awol. An email saying another is going to continue Rael's work, but he is probably totally rogue about it, unless rewriting the geth has a significance there.

[Rip504]

I never said The Migrant Fleet was part of the Spectre law enforcement. I said the Citadel Council backs my decision.

Admriral Xen does send a message. I have beat the game over 14 times. You assume she found the info you took? I highly doubt that. She found something. What she found she doesn't say. But not enough to exile Tali and make her father a war criminal. Now is it? No because it never happens after the trial.

You are making assumptions,and I am making counter assumptions. Tali as an Admiral will learn from her past mistakes as do we all. To assume she would follow in those footsteps, is just that an assumption based of a bias Tali hate.What other choices has Tali made, that makes you feel this way? Since it's Shepards choice and not hers,she is not truly at fault Shepard is. To assume she will become an admiral is an assumption also. Answer the rest. Because you have failed repeatedly to open my eyes to your concept of the truth is the only right way.

Modifié par Rip504, 07 janvier 2011 - 12:51 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Tali isn't an idiot, but she both intimately connected and emotional, too much so to be considered an impartial or unbiased.



The entire point of Rael's work was so that the Quarians could take back the homeworld by force. In part for his Daughter, yes, but he was very much looking towards a war.

[Rip504]

THE TRAIL IS ABOUT TALI,NOT HER FATHER. Her Father was not the only Quarian aboard the ship commiting war crimes. The entire ship is guilty. It is bigger then Tali and her father and this is the point most of yall fail to see.

[Lewie]

Rip504 wrote...

THE TRAIL IS ABOUT TALI,NOT HER FATHER. Her Father was not the only Quarian aboard the ship commiting war crimes. The entire ship is guilty. It is bigger then Tali and her father and this is the point most of yall fail to see.

I have to emphasise this, the Quarian race is not Shepards responsibility or Talis. Talis father wanted a a place on the homeworld yes, i don't agree with him working with geth but they created them and wouldn't have the same view against the geth as a mere civilian would which made me understand why he was trying to learn and or change and or fix things. On the other hand obviously all geth should be destroyed their mindset is a dire threat.

Tali did what was asked of her, to send parts. I get the guilty party thing but if you send someone a knife hilt across the world say because they like the work put into making it, and they kill someone with it should you be charged also? 

[Lewie]

Tali did what was asked of her, she sent parts. If someone sent another a knife hilt, say because they liked the work put into it and that person made it into a knife and killed someone. Should they be charged with murder?

Repeat last bit, lag on a forum 

Modifié par louise101, 07 janvier 2011 - 01:35 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Rip504 wrote...

THE TRAIL IS ABOUT TALI,NOT HER FATHER. Her Father was not the only Quarian aboard the ship commiting war crimes. The entire ship is guilty. It is bigger then Tali and her father and this is the point most of yall fail to see.

I CAN TALK IN ALL CAPS TOO AND IT DOESNT MAKE ME SOUND ANY MORE INTELLIGENT OR MATURE OR REASONBLE  OR RELEVANT TO WHAT I JUST QUOTED OR INTELLIGENT!

Ahem.

The trial wasn't about Tali, as any Shepard can more than easily point out. The trial was about the Fleet as a whole. What went aboard the Alarai is significant, and still applies to the true basis of the trial.

That the entire crew of the Alarai is guilty doesn't mean that Rael isn't ultimately responsible for what happened, or that it should be any more covered up.

[Dean_the_Young]

louise101 wrote...


Tali did what was asked of her, she sent parts. If someone sent another a knife hilt, say because they liked the work put into it and that person made it into a knife and killed someone. Should they be charged with murder?

What's your opinion on gun-running, weapons smuggling, and nuclear proliferation rings?

[Lewie]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

louise101 wrote...


Tali did what was asked of her, she sent parts. If someone sent another a knife hilt, say because they liked the work put into it and that person made it into a knife and killed someone. Should they be charged with murder?

What's your opinion on gun-running, weapons smuggling, and nuclear proliferation rings?

Its how you see it, smuggling weapons etc is of course for money i wouldn't do it. This is the mass effect world and quarians lives are based around 'parts'. Its understanding it from their perspective. If you help Tali and the admiralty board already know of the evidence you found, and allow the work on that ship to be continued then on their heads be it. The geth are killing everywhere and still they don't learn.

I don't see how this is shepards problem.

[Rip504]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Rip504 wrote...

THE TRAIL IS ABOUT TALI,NOT HER FATHER. Her Father was not the only Quarian aboard the ship commiting war crimes. The entire ship is guilty. It is bigger then Tali and her father and this is the point most of yall fail to see.

I CAN TALK IN ALL CAPS TOO AND IT DOESNT MAKE ME SOUND ANY MORE INTELLIGENT OR MATURE OR REASONBLE  OR RELEVANT TO WHAT I JUST QUOTED OR INTELLIGENT!

Ahem.

The trial wasn't about Tali, as any Shepard can more than easily point out. The trial was about the Fleet as a whole. What went aboard the Alarai is significant, and still applies to the true basis of the trial.

That the entire crew of the Alarai is guilty doesn't mean that Rael isn't ultimately responsible for what happened, or that it should be any more covered up.

Appernatly nothing you do will make you more intelligent. Since I never said this is a reason for why it should be covered up. Nope never said that. You just made an unitelligent assumption.

"The trial wasn't about Tali, as any Shepard can more than easily point out. The trial was about the Fleet as a whole. What went aboard the Alarai is significant, and still applies to the true basis of the trial."

Wrong the Trial is about Tali's exile and her envolvment in what happend. Tali states to the board she sent inactive Geth to the Migrant Fleet. So her crimes are known. Any info Shepard can provide about her father is a non-factor. Why? Because Tali would have been unfairly exiled for the crimes of her father? But no punishment is needed for the sending of inactive Geth? Help me understand,why you consider this Just and fair.

How would you feel to go to jail for life without a trial? It would be unfair and unjust. The crimes of Tali's father is a seprate matter,and therefor should be a seprate trial.The only reason you would use the data in the trial is to help clear Tali of charges. But that fails,and gets her exiled. For what having a Father that is a war criminal? Not for sending inactive Geth.

Modifié par Rip504, 07 janvier 2011 - 01:51 .

[Lewie]

Rip504 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Rip504 wrote...

THE TRAIL IS ABOUT TALI,NOT HER FATHER. Her Father was not the only Quarian aboard the ship commiting war crimes. The entire ship is guilty. It is bigger then Tali and her father and this is the point most of yall fail to see.

I CAN TALK IN ALL CAPS TOO AND IT DOESNT MAKE ME SOUND ANY MORE INTELLIGENT OR MATURE OR REASONBLE  OR RELEVANT TO WHAT I JUST QUOTED OR INTELLIGENT!

Ahem.

The trial wasn't about Tali, as any Shepard can more than easily point out. The trial was about the Fleet as a whole. What went aboard the Alarai is significant, and still applies to the true basis of the trial.

That the entire crew of the Alarai is guilty doesn't mean that Rael isn't ultimately responsible for what happened, or that it should be any more covered up.

Appernatly nothing you do will make you more intelligent. Since I never said this is a reason for why it should be covered up. Nope never said that. You just made an unitelligent assumption.

"The trial wasn't about Tali, as any Shepard can more than easily point out. The trial was about the Fleet as a whole. What went aboard the Alarai is significant, and still applies to the true basis of the trial."

Wrong the Trial is about Tali's exile and her envolvment in what happend. Tali states to the board she sent inactive Geth to the Migrant Fleet. So her crimes are known. Any info Shepard can provide about her father is a non-factor. Why? Because Tali would have been unfairly exiled for the crimes of her father? But no punishment is needed for the sending of inactive Geth? Help me understand,why you consider this Just and fair.

How would you feel to go to jail for life without a trial? It would be unfair and unjust. The crimes of Tali's father is a seprate matter,and therefor should be a seprate trial.The only reason you would use the data in the trial is to help clear Tali of charges. But that fails,and gets her exiled. For what having a Father that is a war criminal? Not for sending inactive Geth.

Tali sent parts, inactive, and was accused of sending 'active' geth, blaming her then on the whole ship being took over. Tali's 'parts; did not kill everyone on that ship its in the hands of those that had the parts.

[Dionkey]

GodWood wrote...

How is you making a decision and than suffering for it later negative to your roleplaying.
I'd think that's a postive.

How does Loyalty have any effect on whether they can fire their gun? Are they going to get you purposly killed because you didnt do what they wanted? That just sounds like an idiot squad member.

[Rip504]

^ Exactly. Why charge Tali for the crimes of her father,while Tali is innocent? I don't understand how you say this is truth and should be told. Your actions are unfairly exiling Tali for the rest of her life. For the crimes of another. Should his crimes be known. Sure,but at the cost of unfair justice to be served against Tali,is wrong. And the TRUTH is without your help she wouldn't be unfairly judged and exiled. So you can try to blame the Quarians for your actions,but at the end of the day their your action.



So the Quarians know Tali's father wanted to retake homeworld,Tali sent inactive Geth parts,The Geth took over a ship her father was in charge of. If this is not enough to convict, the Quarians didn't truly want to. Shepard makes it public and now they feel pressured to make a quick and unjust judgment.



Ask Newton every action has a reaction. Do not get involved in matters that don't concern you, Variable X. Loud cap the matters that doesn't concern you. Variable Y. It's as simply as that.



You are being asked to retake the ship and clear Tali of her charges. Mission X. Getting involved in Tali's father and Quarian politics dealing with Geth. Variable Y.

[Dean_the_Young]

Rip504 wrote...


Appernatly nothing you do will make you more intelligent. Since I never said this is a reason for why it should be covered up. Nope never said that. You just made an unitelligent assumption.

Is that your idea of a burn? Really? Thirteen prepubescent kids on XBOX can throw better disses than that, though at least this time you aren't throwing in liberal amounts of all caps.

Go read urban dictionary. Get in a bar scuffle. Watch comedy central, even

"The trial wasn't about Tali, as any Shepard can more than easily point out. The trial was about the Fleet as a whole. What went aboard the Alarai is significant, and still applies to the true basis of the trial."

Wrong the Trial is about Tali's exile and her envolvment in what happend. Tali states to the board she sent inactive Geth to the Migrant Fleet. So her crimes are known. Any info Shepard can provide about her father is a non-factor. Why? Because Tali would have been unfairly exiled for the crimes of her father? But no punishment is needed for the sending of inactive Geth? Help me understand,why you consider this Just and fair.

Rip, if you talk to any of the admirals after the initial hearing, they will all freely admit that Tali is tangental to the true point of the trial, which is a contest over the direction of the Quarian race. Not only will they all freely admit this during the interum period of the trial itself, they will apologize for it if Shepard calls them out on it. It is, in many respects, a sham trial, and as Admiral Xen will admit Tali is only incental in it.

Rael's words are directly relevant because they prove that the cause of the Geth rampancy was in no way the result of Tali's actions, but entirely his own. No punishment is needed for sending inactive Geth because sending inactive geth is not a crime or a liability.. Rael's confessions is relevant in the context of the charges against Tali because they prove that she was neither derilect in her responsiblitie nor even aware of Rael's actions, and this is relevant in the context of the Quarian Flotilla as a whole because it reveals the truth about a great crime against the.Fleet.

How would you feel to go to jail for life without a trial?

Context is, of course, everything. However, the question is confusing because the only way for Tali to get punished is to hide the data.

It would be unfair and unjust. The crimes of Tali's father is a seprate matter,and therefor should be a seprate trial.The only reason you would use the data in the trial is to help clear Tali of charges. But that fails,and gets her exiled. For what having a Father that is a war criminal? Not for sending inactive Geth.

No, it doesn't.

If the data is revealed, Tali is not exiled, and all charges against her are dropped.

[Rip504]

OO well it was a mistake on my part. But legaly she was being tried for exile and her involvment. Whatever their true intention was,it is not legaly backed. And No obligation to Shepard to betray a friend/LI is required. Or considered right IMO.

The entire arguement was based on telling the truth.Now you ask me to betray a friend/LI,to a board that is standing their lying to me about their true intentions. Which make tis trial illegal and pointless. Therefor Shepard takes the Paragon option and gets the hell out of dodge. Paragon is what? and this is considered Paragon by Bioware.

I will admit it changes a bit,for some reason I assumed she was exiled for it.

PS: I wrote one sentence in bold text,so it would stand out from the rest. I told you,you made an unitelligent assumption,and you ask if I was trying to burn you? No I was correcting you.

Burn you as in dirty sex with a dirty who**,nah I'll pass.? So let's not get ignorant with the bar fight bs.
I'm from New Orleans you?

Modifié par Rip504, 07 janvier 2011 - 02:33 .

[Xilizhra]

Dean, why can't you just reveal the information to Han'Garrel and Shala'Raan after the trial is over, after calling the admirals out? That way they know what happened, Tali's name's been cleared, the admirals' chicanery has been exposed, and everyone is happy and informed.

[Pacifien]

Xilizhra wrote...
Dean, why can't you just reveal the information to Han'Garrel and Shala'Raan after the trial is over, after calling the admirals out? That way they know what happened, Tali's name's been cleared, the admirals' chicanery has been exposed, and everyone is happy and informed.

There is a difference between revealing the government's crimes to the government and revealing it to public. Rael'Zorah wanted Han'Gerrel to know about the experiments, he mentions this in his final orders to Tali. Han'Gerrel would do nothing to jeopardize his efforts to prepare for war with the geth. Shala'Raan is the epitome of neutral. She would do nothing to rock the boat. If the evidence is important that someone know, then you'd want to reveal it to someone who cares to actually do something about it.

Why can't Tali get what she wants, you get what you want, and the bad guys are duly punished all at the same time? Some people want to have the perfect scenario. I don't, and I think it's a shame that the story was written in such a manner that cheats you out of having to make a choice with consequences.

[Xilizhra]

Why can't Tali get what she wants, you get what you want, and the bad guys are duly punished all at the same time? Some people want to have the perfect scenario. I don't, and I think it's a shame that the story was written in such a manner that cheats you out of having to make a choice with consequences.

The bad guys are all dead. You can't do anything more to them.
As for what I want... I'm neutral on whether or not the evidence should be revealed, but it's likely a bad idea if the fleet would splinter. All I want is for them to make peace with the geth.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 07 janvier 2011 - 03:05 .

[primero holodon]

He paid for his mistake. no sense in traumatising Tali for the sake of punishing a dead man

[Pacifien]

Xilizhra wrote...
The bad guys are all dead. You can't do anything more to them.

I'll quote Dean_the_Young who I felt managed to put this into words better than I could:

"It can, however, directly effect the quality of life of the people he harmed. Rael is dead: he won't mind a verbal flogging. Hundreds of widows, orphans, parents, and friends of the lost can be given the respect they deserve to know the truth about why their loved one died, and vindicated in knowing that rank, privaleges, and family connections wouldn't see the one responsible excape any sort of accountability on the part of those left behind.

Rael is dead. The people whom his disaster harmed, are not. Justice and accountability aren't only for the sake of the person responsible, but for the rest of society as well."

Xilizhra wrote...
As for what I want... I'm neutral on whether or not the evidence should be revealed, but it's likely a bad idea if the fleet would splinter. All I want is for them to make peace with the geth.

Who said peace was easy? For all we know, peace with the geth can only be obtained when the Migrant Fleet shatters, there by destroying any chance that those who support war can mount a considerable offense. Not that I'm saying that's the scenario when you reveal the evidence.

Modifié par Pacifien, 07 janvier 2011 - 03:17 .

[Xilizhra]

"It can, however, directly effect the quality of life of the people he harmed. Rael is dead: he won't mind a verbal flogging. Hundreds of widows, orphans, parents, and friends of the lost can be given the respect they deserve to know the truth about why their loved one died, and vindicated in knowing that rank, privaleges, and family connections wouldn't see the one responsible excape any sort of accountability on the part of those left behind.



Rael is dead. The people whom his disaster harmed, are not. Justice and accountability aren't only for the sake of the person responsible, but for the rest of society as well."

So... it'll help, somehow, that they'll be remembered as either unwitting dupes or willing pawns of a criminally stupid admiral, instead of well-remembered victims of a tragic accident?

The loved ones already think that they know the truth. Having a new truth show up would break their personal closure, likely introduce more pain, and also do that pesky fleet-splitting thing, thus introducing yet more turmoil into their lives. If justice exists only for its own sake and does nothing to further anyone's quality of life, it cannot be a good thing.

Who said peace was easy? For all we know, peace with the geth can only be obtained when the Migrant Fleet shatters, there by destroying any chance that those who support war can mount a considerable offense. Not that I'm saying that's the scenario when you reveal the evidence.

That might be the case, but I don't want the warmongers to get themselves killed either. I'd rather have everyone come through this in one piece.

[GodWood]

Dionkey wrote...

GodWood wrote...
How is you making a decision and than suffering for it later negative to your roleplaying.
I'd think that's a postive.

How does Loyalty have any effect on whether they can fire their gun? Are they going to get you purposly killed because you didnt do what they wanted? That just sounds like an idiot squad member.

They are 'distracted' and not fully focused on the mission.
Regardless of how silly it is it does not prevent you from being able to roleplay unless your idea of roleplaying is having everything work out.