352 réponses à ce sujet

[Eddo36]

Rip504 wrote...

Draftees? Now you haven been shown a diffrent path,So whos fault is it? The Orders or the Geth? The dead Quarian crew didn't kill the Quarian Marines.. Their are no Marine draftees.

Fault is those who defied the order and activated Geth.

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

My Shepard rarely recruits Tali (let alone do her loyalty mission). When he does a loyalty mission, however, he's doing it for the squadmate. He does not care at all about whatever else is going on. If the squadmate wants the information to be kept secret, it will be kept secret. If the squadmate wants to kill someone (Garrus, Jack, Mordin, Zaeed), my Shepard lets him. If my squadmate doesn't want his son to become an assassin, I'll shoot the target first. The whole reason my Shepard gets involved in any of these situations is because the squadmate asked him to come. My Shepard isn't going to become all pretentious and say, "no you're wrong. We're going to do this my way because I'm infallible."

[Eddo36]

Well you understand it's never about Shepard's way. It's about Quarian's way.

[Rip504]

It was an accident,and they paid for it with their lives. Your close relative,was trying to help your ppl,then had an accident. Now that relative will be considered a war criminal with you proofing it to be so.(And has been killed by that mistake.) Your telling me you would betray your close friends and family in such a matter?

While exileing yourself from your ppl for the rest of your life? Your relative would be the new Benadict Arnold, and you would be a shamed exile. But have what you call Justice.

Modifié par Rip504, 06 janvier 2011 - 08:20 .

[Eddo36]

Rip504 wrote...

It was an accident,and they paid for it with their lives. Your close relative,was trying to help your ppl,then had an accident. Now that relative will be considered a war criminal with you proofing it to be so.(And has been killed by that mistake.) Your telling me you would betray your close friends and family in such a matter?

Truth is truth. What others make of truth is their own thing.

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

Eddo36 wrote...

Well you understand it's never about Shepard's way. It's about Quarian's way.

I'm not Quarian so I don't give a flying f*** about their way. I'm on Tali's loyalty mission. She says "don't reveal the data." I say, "ok, I won't." I do as she ask and we leave.

[Nightwriter]

Then the questions would be:

1. Why should I care about quarian law?
2. Is my responsibility to disseminate truth always, no matter what, or to do what's best for the galaxy and my squad?

[Eddo36]

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

Eddo36 wrote...

Well you understand it's never about Shepard's way. It's about Quarian's way.

I'm not Quarian so I don't give a flying f*** about their way. I'm on Tali's loyalty mission. She says "don't reveal the data." I say, "ok, I won't." I do as she ask and we leave.

Because Tali is commander of team.

[marshalleck]

Nightwriter wrote...

2. Is my responsibility to disseminate truth always, no matter what, or to do what's best for the galaxy and my squad?

Sure, if you're an idealist. 

[Eber]

If you want to play a pure paragon you're going to have to bite the bullet and accept those renegade points. Keep in mind that being a paragon is all about doing what's right no matter the cost. Are you going to let some movements on a red bar stop you?

[Rip504]

Yes it is truth. YOU would be betraying your close family and friends. while being a shamed exile. Tell me you would do this. Because I highly doubt you would.

[Eddo36]

Nightwriter wrote...

Then the questions would be:

1. Why should I care about quarian law?
2. Is my responsibility to disseminate truth always, no matter what, or to do what's best for the galaxy and my squad?

1. It's their place. You have no right to go against it in their area. Outside their home, you can do what you like.
2. What's best for Tali is teaching her it's okay to be unjust.

[Eddo36]

Rip504 wrote...

Yes it is truth. YOU would be betraying your close family and friends. while being a shamed exile. Tell me you would do this. Because I highly doubt you would.

You can never betray anyone by stating the truth.

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

Eddo36 wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

Eddo36 wrote...

Well you understand it's never about Shepard's way. It's about Quarian's way.

I'm not Quarian so I don't give a flying f*** about their way. I'm on Tali's loyalty mission. She says "don't reveal the data." I say, "ok, I won't." I do as she ask and we leave.

Because Tali is commander of team.

No, but it's HER trial, HER family's reputation, and HER people. The only reason we are there is because of HER. I'm just helping a friend get out of a jam. It's ultimately their business and they should handle it as they see fit. If she chooses exile over implicating her father, fine, that is her decision. My Shepard doesn't really care either way as long as it's dealt with. This is Tali's personal issue. By your argument I should command squadmates who to date and what clothes they should wear (oh wait . . .).

[Rip504]

Eddo36 wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Then the questions would be:

1. Why should I care about quarian law?
2. Is my responsibility to disseminate truth always, no matter what, or to do what's best for the galaxy and my squad?

1. It's their place. You have no right to go against it in their area. Outside their home, you can do what you like.
2. What's best for Tali is teaching her it's okay to be unjust.

Shepard can do whatever Shepard wants to.
Because of this one event, you consider Tali's life to be unjust? And expect to her to follow an unjust life from here on out? I think you are misjudging the events taken place.

[marshalleck]

Eddo36 wrote...

Rip504 wrote...

Yes it is truth. YOU would be betraying your close family and friends. while being a shamed exile. Tell me you would do this. Because I highly doubt you would.

You can never betray anyone by stating the truth.

Wow. I hope none of your friends ever confide any potentially embarrassing or at least highly private and personal information in you, or they're likely to end up burned. 

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

Eddo36 wrote...

Rip504 wrote...

Yes it is truth. YOU would be betraying your close family and friends. while being a shamed exile. Tell me you would do this. Because I highly doubt you would.

You can never betray anyone by stating the truth.

Yes you can. I can stumble upon some sensitive government intelligence, and if an enemy of my state asks me about it, I would be betraying my state by giving them said information.

[Eddo36]

How other deals with the truth is their own thing. Hiding the truth is a breach of integrity.

[Pacifien]

Nightwriter wrote...
1. Why should I care about quarian law?
2. Is my responsibility to disseminate truth always, no matter what, or to do what's best for the galaxy and my squad?

1. Why don't you care about war crimes?
2. I don't think it's much about truth as it is about what is right. Some Shepards play by the order of the law in spite of their Spectre status, but when confronted with sticking to their morality or their friends, morality suddenly becomes a grey zone. Which is only human.

I feel like there was a good opportunity here for BioWare to create a mission where people really had to punish their very souls to determine to what lengths they would go to for their friends. Unfortunately, not many people really care about the geth the say way they would an organic, and so "war crime" has little meaning here. I wonder how the story would have played out had it been Mordin's loyalty mission and the victims krogan.

[Rip504]

I also consider condeming one's entire life for such a mistake is unjust. That is her father. He has done more good for the fleet ans her then bad. Condeming his entire life for one mistake is unjust. I never lie to the council,just let them make their own decision based on the facts they have. That is your justice.



Theres what you know. and what you can prove. This is your justice,therefor justice was served at Tali's trail.

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

Eddo36 wrote...

How other deals with the truth is their own thing. Hiding the truth is a breach of integrity.

Seriously? So if you were a part of a military squad that was sent to ambush an enemy patrol, you would consider it a breach of integrity not to warn them ahead of time?

[Eddo36]

Rip504 wrote...

I also consider condeming one's entire life for such a mistake is unjust. That is her father. He has done more good for the fleet ans her then bad. Condeming his entire life for one mistake is unjust. I never lie to the council,just let them make their own decision based on the facts they have. That is your justice.

Theres what you know. and what you can prove. This is your justice,therefor justice was served at Tali's trail.

Condemning his life is up to the Quarians. The truth is said and nothing false stated. As I said, what they do with the truth is up to them. They will be the ones unjust. Just the truth be told, that is my justice.

[Eddo36]

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

Eddo36 wrote...

How other deals with the truth is their own thing. Hiding the truth is a breach of integrity.

Seriously? So if you were a part of a military squad that was sent to ambush an enemy patrol, you would consider it a breach of integrity not to warn them ahead of time?

Please keep in context with the discussion.

[Pacifien]

Eddo36 wrote...
Condemning his life is up to the Quarians. The truth is said and nothing false stated. As I said, what they do with the truth is up to them. They will be the ones unjust. Just the truth be told, that is my justice.

There is something to be said about this. All Shepard does is present data. That the quarians find the data so reprehensible is entirely up to them. And if they find it just that reprehensible, what's that say about the people covering it up?

I mean, they could have just looked at the data and decided "Eh, he's dead now. Justice done." They don't because it's a serious issue to them.

[Nightwriter]

I will save my justice for bad men who commit bad deeds, not good people who make mistakes.

As for me having no right to challenge quarian law, every time I encounter a situation involving an alien government, I think:

- Is this government right?
- Is obeying it wise?
- Are their laws just?
- Are they being executed justly?

In this case the answers were: No, no, yes, and no.