26 réponses à ce sujet

[Gorath Alpha]

Since it has been hijacked by off-topic, and even TROLLING quality comments, it's uselss for its purpose.

Modifié par Gorath Alpha, 13 janvier 2011 - 01:25 .

[GithCheater]

IMHO, I believe that this topic should be stickied if possible.



I am not a computer expert, but I do know about the need for discrete video cards. However, there are number of things presented in this topic that I did not know or consider.



For example, I might look into my background processes if my "effects lag" problem becomes to annoying for me.

[Gorath Alpha]

Sorry that I feel this to be necessary.  Eventually, I will recreate this theme, at a point when I assume the current (IMO) Troll loses interest. 

Modifié par Gorath Alpha, 13 janvier 2011 - 01:28 .

[PSUHammer]

Great post, Gorath...I only wish your intended audience would have the patience to read and comprehend it. In my experience, casual gamers/PC users tend to want the "quick fix" instead of attempting to actually understand their issues.

Modifié par Hammer6767, 07 janvier 2011 - 08:29 .

[Gorath Alpha]

And, my aplology to you as well. 

Modifié par Gorath Alpha, 13 janvier 2011 - 01:29 .

[PSUHammer]

Yes, a lot of that going around right now.

[GithCheater]

I don't think the noobs are the ones who are abusive. Yes, the noobs are hoping for a quick fix, but are met with derision.



Being knowledgeable does not give one the right to crap on noobs.

[Realranger55]

I make post for people who won't read it. I dislike those of you who will read it.



huh?

[Aeron_Koss]

GithCheater wrote...

I don't think the noobs are the ones who are abusive. Yes, the noobs are hoping for a quick fix, but are met with derision.

Being knowledgeable does not give one the right to crap on noobs.

Couldn't agree more. I think we can all use a little more patience and understanding. Using a broad paintbrush to generalize others as purely console users, or computer illerate is not a very welcoming message. More so when there is no evidence that supports it before replying.


It is great we all want to help. We should continue to do so. I remember back in the NWN days it seemed very different than now.

[Gorath Alpha]

By this point, this thread had already been thoroughly ruined, so I will have nothing more to do with it.

Modifié par Gorath Alpha, 13 janvier 2011 - 01:31 .

[Aeron_Koss]

Gorath Alpha wrote...

GithCheater wrote...

I don't think the noobs are the ones who are abusive. Yes, the noobs are hoping for a quick fix, but are met with derision.

Being knowledgeable does not give one the right to crap on noobs.

Sorry, I cannot agree.  IMO, the newest arrivals too often have chip on their shoulder type attitudes that manifest (too regularly) in what I consider to be a TROLL's response, or even, that style of initial post, to which, if the recipient isn't thick-skinned enough, it is THEN that someone may feel compelled to reply in kind, if his / her patience has started running thin. 

This should be a helpful forum. I'm sure you've had issues of which you describe in the past.
But doing so for all future persons asking for simple help is not warrented.

How do you decide what is considered trolling, and what is not without gunning down innocent newcomers?
And do you show those new to the whole process of computer gaming, or simply new to these forums without
yourself coming off as a troll?

I feel such questions should matter. Someone, knowledged or not, shouldn't have to go through the gauntlet for help. If you two really feel this way, why do you persist? It is not like everyday there is something new to be gleamed from the technical support forums.

Maybe a break is in store, to come back refreshed and with a lighter attitude towards those less experienced than others.

[Realranger55]

Your posts are helpful Gorath, but if you want to talk about people with a chip on their shoulder you should give your op another read. It's great that you like to help but honestly it isn't really wanted if it comes along with an attitude like yours. If the new arrivals bother you so much don't bother. I mean, no one asked you to make this post, and before you even get a response you are putting people down?

I have a feeling your posts aren't really there to help people, they are like a form of forum bragging\\posturing.

[GithCheater]

Koss and Ranger also helped expound on my opinions as well.



Many of these noobs have probably never been on a gaming message board, and likely have never dealt with a game as buggy as Dragon Age. A noob might feel they are misunderstanding something simple and are hoping for a simple fix.



Unfortunately, noob abuse is also a problem on other types of messageboards (not just gaming). I know that I as 10 year old timer / fan on music messageboard, I know I would get irritated by some noobs' posts. For the most part I would refrain from noob bashing, as I remember that I was once a noob.



Maybe it is nostalgia, but I remember the forumites on NWN2 being extremely helpful. I had a question that the forumites graciously tried to answer, but ultimately could not solve, but i was very appreciative. Turns out that I made a completely idiotic mistake.



As long as a messageboard exists, there will always be noobs that try the patience of old-timers, but it would be admiral for knowledgeable old-timers to try and bite their tongue and be helpful anyway. Only time can cure a noob of noobness (hopefully).

[PSUHammer]

I will have to disagree to an extent with some of you folks.  These people aren't all noobs and it doesn't excuse abusive posts.  Unlike paid Bioware employees, people who offer support on the boards are fellow gamers volunteering their free time. I was a Tech Moderator on another (very popular) gaming developer's website. Trust me, DAO is not buggy when compared to other games that are out there.

Regardless, about 90% of the posts or requests for help were easily solved issues on the user's system. Whether it was drivers, underperforming hardware, overheating, conflicting software, whatever. The problem is that about half the people asking for support would rip your answers if you suggested the basics (drivers, etc.). Claiming "Don't generalize me as a computer moron!" Usually when someone did act this way (i.e. ungrateful for free advice) they usually WERE the problem.

That creates the defense mechanism you see from people offering support. Number 1, we aren't bound by the company creed "The customer is always right" so we don't have to follow it. If you ask for advice and we offer it, don't bite our head off. Either accept it or move on.

An example of what Gorath and I are referring to is displayed here in very stereotypical fashion:

http://social.biowar...index/5422002/3

Notice the responses to some of my suggestions to post a DXDIAG so I could get more info...

Of course, I sensed that person "deadjedijamie" was being especially rude and irrational so I decided to have a little fun since it wasn't going anywhere anyway. I mean, why come on a forum to ask for help with something just to bite the hand of the helper? Just completely rude.

That being said, I always treated everyone with respect when I was a Tech Moderator.  I was over there for years across 5 or 6 releases of their gaming line and we had a pretty decent veteran community, much like NWN.  I did notice a downward spiral when one of their recent releases won a few "game of the year" awards and a huge influx of new posters came onboard.  Than I started to see more of what you see in my link, above.  When I started getting that too often, I quit. 

Modifié par Hammer6767, 11 janvier 2011 - 01:07 .

[PSUHammer]

Gorath Alpha wrote...

Stickies seem (IMO) to be a waste of space where most of that crowd is concerned.  Be that as it may, when there is a PC Tech forum opened for DA2, a copy of the original post above will be created there, and anyone who agrees then that it is suitable for such use then and there, send your PMs to your favorite moderator and say so.

I couldn't agree more...we had some great stickied posts at another site...they solved almost every in game issue you could experience and were easily searchable.  But...no one read them.  We would still get the same dumb questions over and over and over again.  "Dude...does my Celeron laptop with Intel graphics good enough to run this game on full!!????!?!??!"

[Aeron_Koss]

I know my post is long. But please give my thoughts a chance.


[quote]Hammer6767 wrote...

I will have to disagree to an extent with some of you folks.  These people aren't all noobs and it doesn't excuse abusive posts.[/quote]

Actually, that was our point. Abusive posts can work as if it were a two way street. The first thing I mentioned in my post is that I am sure there have been some abusive posters in the past. And we are not excusing them, or saying it doesn't happen. The point is to not treat those new to the forum (experienced or not), or those new to pc gaming, just like how you treated those abusive posters. Give them a chance first. Let them make the first move. Then react approperately in scale with the opposition you recieve, if any.

[quote]Hammer6767 wrote... 

Unlike paid Bioware employees, people who offer support on the boards are fellow gamers volunteering their free time.[/quote]

So you have to be paid to be nice?

[quote]Hammer6767 wrote... 

I was a Tech Moderator on another (very popular) gaming developer's website.[/quote]

What does that matter? Argument from Authority/Appeal to Authority?

[quote]Hammer6767 wrote... 

Trust me, DAO is not buggy when compared to other games that are out there.[/quote]

Red Herring. We are not comparing this game with others, or against an industry standard. More or less bugs would not change the real points to our conversation.

[quote]Hammer6767 wrote... 

Regardless, about 90% of the posts or requests for help were easily solved issues on the user's system. Whether it was drivers, underperforming hardware, overheating, conflicting software, whatever.[/quote]

So are you saying 90% of people's problems have been solved on this forum? I have my doubts honestly. Even if it was 25% its great others are helping out. That is the point of this forum after all.

But this is all still besides the point. Even if 100% of people's problems were solved, this does not have anything to do with our conversation about approaching new forum members. Or new questions asked.

[quote]Hammer6767 wrote... 

The problem is that about half the people asking for support would rip your answers if you suggested the basics (drivers, etc.). Claiming "Don't generalize me as a computer moron!" Usually when someone did act this way (i.e. ungrateful for free advice) they usually WERE the problem.[/quote]

Perhaps a less judgemental approach can cut down your claim of 50% to a lower number.

Also we have to remember that with pure text, tone and intent in replies can be miscommunicated.

If you care about keeping things under control, then maybe watch how your words may be taken. Even if your intentions were innocent to begin with. If you don't really care, then own up to it at least. No reason to bring it up afterwards then. At that point, it doesn't matter who's fault it might be.

[quote]Hammer6767 wrote... 

That creates the defense mechanism you see from people offering support. Number 1, we aren't bound by the company creed "The customer is always right" so we don't have to follow it. If you ask for advice and we offer it, don't bite our head off. Either accept it or move on.[/quote]

Quite the ultimatum. But it's acceptable since you are not making any money off of them, right?

And no one said, "The customer is always right". And that has nothing to do with tech support. It has to do with keeping a positive spread of free marketing of your buisness. From person to person, by word of mouth.

Again, we already know not every person in the world is going to be nice. Some people, no matter how nice you are to them, just do not care.

Once more, our point is to not see this as the default person visiting here. Don't generalize everyone by first glance. We also don't say you always do this. But what about those who fall inbetween both extremes?


[quote]Hammer6767 wrote... 

An example of what Gorath and I are referring to is displayed here in very stereotypical fashion:

http://social.biowar...index/5422002/3

Notice the responses to some of my suggestions to post a DXDIAG so I could get more info...[/quote]

Actually, if your point is the person asking for help then lashes out when asked to post more info... then this doesn't support that point. The one you were trying to help never even replied to you.

Later on in the post, two others made the counter points that others and myself are making here.

Again, why is it that people with no problems up to 1.03 patch all of a sudden have had problems since then, and you blame it on their lack of knowledge with computer hardware or ability to maintain their system. Denying any fault of BioWare's code?


[quote]Hammer6767 wrote... 

Of course, I sensed that person "deadjedijamie" was being especially rude and irrational so I decided to have a little fun since it wasn't going anywhere anyway. I mean, why come on a forum to ask for help with something just to bite the hand of the helper? Just completely rude.[/quote]

So you threw gasoline on the fire, and come back here using it as evidence of how unfortunate you are treated here in the forum?

I have a question, was there any previous discourse between you and "deadjedijamie"? If not, then they at least have seen your repsonses before. They mention that actually. Obviously this is not a fresh exchange merely from that thread. But just the newest battlefield. Our point is that why should there be a battlefield in the first place when ultimately trying to help others.


[quote]Hammer6767 wrote... 

That being said, I always treated everyone with respect when I was a Tech Moderator.  I was over there for years across 5 or 6 releases of their gaming line and we had a pretty decent veteran community, much like NWN.[/quote]

Again, we are not talking about other games, other forums, nor another place in time.


[quote]Hammer6767 wrote... 

  I did notice a downward spiral when one of their recent releases won a few "game of the year" awards and a huge influx of new posters came onboard.  Than I started to see more of what you see in my link, above.  When I started getting that too often, I quit.  [/quote]

Once more, this is a red herring. This is not DAO specific, nor specific to this forum, nor specific to your responses here in the DAO tech threads.

Furthermore, statistically this makes sense. Let's just throw out a random number, like 25% of all forum users are trolls, or simply angry. When the pool of people increases, so does the unsavory comments. They are still representing 25% of the total. But there are still more of them than before. Thus, more of a chance of you browsing around and finding someone you don't like. (trolls and self-rightous angry people usually reply and post more often than those who's problems have been helped and solved. And those are of the nice people who actually bother to reply back. Or even post to begin with instead of just lurking and searching)
In other words, people more often are likely to release stress and anger rather than nice people taking the time to admit fault for a crash or say thank you. Its usually an invisible population.




In closing, our point is to not treat anyone new based on the worst of your previous encounters.

Please don't get a misunderstanding that we are saying there is never anyone else at fault before you respond and react. Just take people on a case to case basis. And don't look down upon others who are not computer litterate.

Approach is just as important as tone. Everyone has at one time or another not been the nicest person on the planet. No one is some mythical kind diety without imperfection.

Modifié par Aeron_Koss, 11 janvier 2011 - 03:15 .

[PSUHammer]

I stand by my original assertions and will not be offering any more of my free time on this board for tech support. Too fickle in these parts.

And, just as a follow up, the only reason I mention my previous experience is to explain where I am coming from.  It is not an argument from authority, as you are implying (like the green though!).  It is simply a reference to my background and how I came to the stance that I have.  Nothing more, nothing less.  Consider it similar to submitting previous work experience on a job application.  Plus, others had been sharing their experiences on the old NWN boards.

Not everything is a red herring or other argument fallacy, man.  And, comparisons are quite valid at times, whether you like it or not.  We aren't on the debate team, after all.  It's just one person asking why their game is crashing and another trying to offer help.

Also, to your point about the post I linked to, no, I never talked to the guy before and, no, he did not alude to any of my previous posts.  Read closer.

In fact, I asked another person to provide a DXDIAG and his first response to me was "Everything you've posted is simply nonsense."  Now, I am not the brightest mind in the room, but that is pretty inflammatory stuff to open with.  And, no where did I imply that everyone was stupid.  Where do you guys get this stuff?

I can't answer why 1.04 crashes for you and a few others.  Why?  Because I don't know what's on your machine.
How about YOU answer me this...if 1.04 is broken, why DOESN'T it crash on my machine?

I think some of you folks need to take a step back and look at what you write and look at the tone that you are writing in as well.  Based on some of the PM's I have received from people browsing through this thread, I am not the one coming off rude.

Modifié par Hammer6767, 12 janvier 2011 - 12:32 .

[PSUHammer]

Aeron_Koss wrote...

Hammer6767 wrote... 

That creates the defense mechanism you see from people offering support. Number 1, we aren't bound by the company creed "The customer is always right" so we don't have to follow it. If you ask for advice and we offer it, don't bite our head off. Either accept it or move on.

Quite the ultimatum. But it's acceptable since you are not making any money off of them, right?

And no one said, "The customer is always right". And that has nothing to do with tech support. It has to do with keeping a positive spread of free marketing of your buisness. From person to person, by word of mouth.

Again, we already know not every person in the world is going to be nice. Some people, no matter how nice you are to them, just do not care.

Once more, our point is to not see this as the default person visiting here. Don't generalize everyone by first glance. We also don't say you always do this. But what about those who fall inbetween both extremes?

Actually..."The Customer is always right" is used by tech professionals quite a bit, especially in tech support circles, to describe scenarios where the person receiving support is defiantly sure that the advice they are receiving won't help.  
Regardless, I think you overanalyzed this a bit.  I agree with your basic stance in taking each request independantly. I don’t think I have argued against it.

BUT in your post above, you are conveniently ignoring the other side of the equation which is the responsibility of those asking for help to remain civil and to at least understand that the person offering advice doesn’t always know what you have tried or what your technical proficiency is.  To ask someone for a DXDIAG is not insinuating that they lack technical ability.  It's only purpose is to allow the person offering support to rule out the common root causes.

I have been pretty clear that my particular issue is with the people who are rude off the bat.  Not everyone is like that, of course.

Modifié par Hammer6767, 12 janvier 2011 - 12:21 .

[GithCheater]

With respect the linked post, when one proclaims "My game work's perfectly" and implicitly blames and belittles those who experience serious bugs, a flaming "return fire" can often occur (like in the case of "DeadJamie").  Also, Sargon's and Angband's replies at the end of page 3 of the linked post are really quite appropriate.

Regarding PM responses, I wonder if most of these responses are from people who had been following Dragon Age in 2008 or earlier, when the Dragon Age Community was much, much smaller and more "intimate".

Modifié par GithCheater, 12 janvier 2011 - 12:44 .

[PSUHammer]

GithCheater wrote...

With respect the linked post, when one proclaims "My game work's perfectly" and implicitly blames and belittles those who experience serious bugs, a flaming "return fire" can often occur (like in the case of "DeadJamie").  Also, Sargon's and Angband's replies at the end of page 3 of the linked post are really quite appropriate.

Regarding PM responses, I wonder if most of these responses are from people who had been following Dragon Age in 2008 or earlier, when the Dragon Age Community was much, much smaller and more "intimate".

That's not really fair.  Nowhere did I belittle anybody.  I said that the game is quite stable at this point, which I believe it is.  As for the other response, it was directed towards a person who stated that Windows 7 x64 was the cause of his game crashing.  I simply replied that the game does run fine in 7 x64 so it has to be some other conflict in his system.

How is this belittling someone?  You feel this was enough to elicit the response I received?  Granted my response to him about therapy wasn't in the best taste, but at that point he was asking for it.

Modifié par Hammer6767, 12 janvier 2011 - 01:08 .

[GithCheater]

In the fast trigger, emotional environment of the internet, yes I believe that this was enough to elicit the response you received.



You're right that it is not fair, but that is the perception that DeadJamie, Sargon and Angband appeared to have in that topic. DeadJamie may have been a hothead, but Sargon and Angband appear to have been civil.



I originally tried to be civil in this topic when I suggested stickying this topic, but later respones to this thread (and the linked thread) may have helped triggered me to emotionally respond less than civilly.

[GithCheater]

In the fast trigger, emotional environment of the internet, yes I believe that this was enough to elicit the response you received.
You're right that it is not fair, but that is the perception that DeadJamie, Sargon and Angband appeared to have in that topic. DeadJamie may have been a hothead, but Sargon and Angband appear to have been civil.
I originally tried to be civil in this topic when I suggested stickying this topic, but later respones to this thread (and the linked thread) may have helped triggered me to emotionally respond less than civilly.

Modifié par GithCheater, 12 janvier 2011 - 03:12 .

[Aeron_Koss]

You are backpeddling Hammer. But it is quite alright, you do not have to accept my assessment. It honestly doesn't really matter. Moreso if you will not be offering any more of your time here. It was not my intent to see you go, but to look at things in a different light. At worst, take a break and return refreshed.


As for others who may be lurking, or reading in the future I want to clear some things up.

Hammer6767 wrote...


And, just as a follow up, the only reason I mention my previous experience is to explain where I am coming from.  It is not an argument from authority, as you are implying (like the green though!).  It is simply a reference to my background and how I came to the stance that I have.  Nothing more, nothing less.  Consider it similar to submitting previous work experience on a job application.  Plus, others had been sharing their experiences on the old NWN boards.

Not everything is a red herring or other argument fallacy, man.  And, comparisons are quite valid at times, whether you like it or not.  We aren't on the debate team, after all.

If the shoe fits...
It is not my fault their words fit the descriptions of what I say. It does not matter if any of us are on a debate team or not. In real life, logic is logic.

Yes, this might explain why they are the way they are here, but it does not address our points. It also does not excuse them from the actions in question. Nor does it change their actions in question.

And we still are not disagreeing with the case of someone coming here being abusive right off the bat. Before help is offered, and even after it has.
This is not our point.

Hammer6767 wrote...

Also, to your point about the post I linked to, no, I never talked to the guy before and, no, he did not alude to any of my previous posts.  Read closer.

The post he is referring to was made by the user, "DeadJediJamie". Here is what I was referring to.

DeadJediJamie wrote...

Gorath spouts the same nonsense in thread after thread while accusing
people of making too many threads when he himself says the same tired
****e in every thread he posts.

(Cut)

And trust me when I say I've been in threads, given my specifications
and the problem I'm having and you know what the response was? NOTHING!
Not one single solution, most of the time just drowned out with useless
suggestions like yours.

Perhaps I worded my post wrong at first in regards to this. I ment to say, he has seen what we are seeing/complaining about here. Regardless, my point was that this is not evidence to support Gorath/Hammer's case of:
User posts problem without info-->Helper asks for info-->User nerd rages over the hassel of having to post system specs and driver versions.

This is more like

User Posts Problem without info-->everyone gets fed up when they try out fixes they read in other threads->
They come to this thread and band together to display their grief->They hate Bioware Devs->
Someone else asks for help->
Gorath and Hammer ask for info->
Other users already angery at Gorath in a mob with pitchforks and torches go for Gorath->
Hammer Defends, then decides to throw gasoline onto the fire and have some fun->
Hammer uses this as evidence of how others treat Gorath/Hammer badly

The user Hammer was trying to help never responded to them. Also, previous pages in that thread show that it has already turned into a flame war anyways with people angry at the BioWare Devs. Then Hammer admits to wanting to have some fun with them by stoking the flames and pouring gasoline on the fire. Maybe they were referring to Gorath more than Hammer... but the real issues still exist. This is not evidence to suppor their claims.

Besides, we never said that this never happens. (User not cooperating with helpers kindly, politely, professionally, whatever) It is besides the point we are making here. Again.

I will repeat our point once more.
Let the user respond, then scale your reaction accordingly, if need be. Don't judge on first appearances or past experiences. Don't use the worst cases as your standard for future ones.

Hammer6767 wrote...

In fact, I asked another person to provide a DXDIAG and his first response to me was "Everything you've posted is simply nonsense."

We never said that doesn't happen. Again, we are not talking about these cases. We are talking about cases where the user is assumed to react this way before hand, and then is mistreated.

Hammer6767 wrote...
  Now, I am not the brightest mind in the room, but that is pretty inflammatory stuff to open with.  And, no where did I imply that everyone was stupid.  Where do you guys get this stuff?

I don't see anyone in this thread who claims Hammer treats everyone, as in 100% of new cases, this way. Besides, even if it were below 1% of users, it might just be too much. In school or college, does a mentor berate or belittle their pupil? I'd hope not, its not conductive to a learning enviroment. This is most likely the root of our complaints forwarded here.

Hammer6767 wrote...

I can't answer why 1.04 crashes for you and a few others.  Why?  Because I don't know what's on your machine.
How about YOU answer me this...if 1.04 is broken, why DOESN'T it crash on my machine?

Actually, I do want to answer Hammer directly here. In another post I posted up some of my system specs when you brought up the points of system instability. (Good point, bad approach on your part. You also wrote off the game being buggy, and issued this as the only likely problem. This was half a year ago you did so btw)

What was funny, is that our system hardware, at least vendor wise, is rather similar. Antec power supply, more than 700 watts. Asus mother board. Crucial memory, 4gb. Graphics cards are somewhat close too. 4870 and 5770.

System instability can be a huge problem with any program. So can old drivers (Or drivers that need to be rolled back for optimal performance). But this is not the only cause.

To answer your question why your system doesn't, but others do. Who knows, perhaps you have the exact same hardware, a computer twin if you will, of a system the Devs or a testers use.

Is it really that difficult to imagine a program not being tested, optimised, and stable on every combination of hardware out there in user land? And we're talking about stable hardware here, not trash junk hardware. Or incompatable hardware hardware conflicts with other hardware.

This is another reason people may get upset with you. You will defend the program tooth and nail. It reminds me of an old skit on SNL with Jimmy Fallon. "It's not our program, it's not our program! Don't say that!"

Hammer6767 wrote...

I think some of you folks need to take a step back and look at what you write and look at the tone that you are writing in as well.  Based on some of the PM's I have received from people browsing through this thread, I am not the one coming off rude.

Well, anyone can read how, earlier, I posted about no one being perfect. And also how a medium like pure text can miscommunicate intent, tone, and attitude.

I'm not some mythical god of kindness, and I admit my weaknesses when I or others see them. Nothing to be ashamed of (I'm not implying anyone here is). We are human.
(This is me, admitting my own weakness. Not projecting any one thing at any one person. But humanity as a whole)
Although I feel I have tried to present my argument as clearly as possible without diatribe or anger.

Again... this is still besides the point! This does not address our point.

I will repeat our point once more.
Let
the user respond, then scale your reaction accordingly, if need be.
Don't judge on first appearances or past experiences. Don't use the
worst cases as your standard for future ones.

Modifié par Aeron_Koss, 12 janvier 2011 - 09:11 .

[Aeron_Koss]

To make it clear.


Let the user respond, then scale your reaction accordingly, if need be. Don't judge on first appearances or past experiences. Don't use the worst cases as your standard for future ones.

Please if you want to address our concerns, then address our actual point.

These are not our claims or assumptions:
We actually have any authority to make you act the way we want you to.
Everyone must follow our rules of polite society.
You should never defend yourself.
You should always act nice no matter what.
Posters are always nice.
Posters always kindly thank their helpers.
Posters never get angry.
Posters never have attitudes.
Posters are never rude.
Computer hardware can never cause instability or crashes.
No one needs Computer specs and driver info to solve issues.
Helpers never have had experience helping others.
Helpers never have been treated rudely.
Helpers never experience undue verbal abuse for just wanting to help.
Those of us who disagree with you are never moody or rude.
In every single case imaginable, we are right and you are wrong.


Look at how two different approaches can make a difference in helping someone out.
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/58/index/2183407/8#5686482

Modifié par Aeron_Koss, 12 janvier 2011 - 09:59 .

[PSUHammer]

I am not backpedaling, trust me.  I was simply correcting some of your misinterpretations of my post.
And, honestly, I am not interested in having a discussion about a post I may or may not have made a year ago.  I don’t remember what you are referring to.  I also don’t have the energy or time to devote to the tech support approach you seem to prefer.  If that means you don’t like my suggestions or advice, feel free to ignore my posts. I am ok with that.

Also, please don’t fall into the assumption trap by claiming I am always defending the “code.”  I still experience a few bugs (Silverlite mines equipment, etc.).  I just tend to want to exhaust all other root causes first. You have to admit that some people tend to jump to the conclusion that the game is to blame at the first sign of an issue.

Well, I am not going to take the time to respond to the entirety of your post.  I will say that if you feel you need to take this approach to tech support here on the forums, then by all means do so, but my approach has worked for me in the past (oh no!  He's bringing up the past again!!    ) and I will carry on.  I also respectfully disagree with your
assertion that referencing previous experiences is inadmissible (in any discussion).

You and I are in agreement that when someone asks for support we should treat each request independently. 
But approaches can vary.  I guess that is why we have ignore buttons, here!

Modifié par Hammer6767, 12 janvier 2011 - 02:41 .