43 réponses à ce sujet

[Gavpwn]

I hear that Bard is better for CUN because it applies to the Bard's Buffs.
Yet I really want to take up Duelist. I just think Assassion/Duelist is a really nice build for a Rogue.

Pretty simple question really. Help and discuss please. =)

Modifié par Gavpwn, 06 janvier 2011 - 02:04 .

[termokanden]

Duelist gives you a flat +10 bonus to attack and defense. By the end of the game, a cunning based rogue will get a similar attack bonus from Song of Courage (70 cunning is +9) along with increased damage per hit (which is huge for dual-wielders) and increased crit chance. But this bonus counts for the entire party. But then you don't get the +10 defense.



I prefer Bard because it boosts the whole party and increases damage, not just chance to hit. But Duelist isn't exactly bad either, so just grab it if you want that instead.

[Gavpwn]

Hm.. Right. So the main difference is that Bard boosts entire group ATK and Duelist boosts personal ATK + DEF. I think I'm probably going to go with Duelist then. Bard is probably better for a CUN Rogue but I'd really prefer to be a Duelist and focus on my own DMG rather than worrying about Buffing the group. It sounds lazy but in my opinion Rogues should be a sole DMG class.



Thank you.

[termokanden]

That's not really what I said though. SoC gives the whole group attack, crit chance and damage per hit. So for personal damage, bard is still best. It just buffs the group as well.

[Gavpwn]

Oh.. Then I must have misread.. >_< I read it again and I understand now though. =)

Now you've put me and in awkward situation..

I really wanted to be a Assassin/Duelist Dag/Dag CUN Rogue..

Modifié par Gavpwn, 06 janvier 2011 - 01:59 .

[termokanden]

Well, Duelist does give you defense and it gives you the +10 attack bonus immediately. SoC takes a while to scale up.

You can also have both if you bring another rogue. I always bring Leliana for my melee characters for SoC.

Modifié par termokanden, 06 janvier 2011 - 02:06 .

[Gavpwn]

Ah. Yes! That's a great idea! I could spec her an Archer/Bard. Giving my group ranged DMG and Song of Courage. Having the base Duelist +10 ATK and DEF too will only increase my DMG further. I'm starting to understand this game more and more by the day. I've only ventured to the end of Lothering so far but I want to prepare myself for the rest of the game as much as I can. I hate having to restart characters over and over again. (Third time with my Dwarf Noble, Hamish.)

[Arthur Cousland]

My current dual wield rogue is a bard/duelist. You can't go wrong with any of the rogue specs. Just pick one and enjoy.



Assassin is good for backstabbing, bard for party buffs, and duelist for better attack/defense. Just go with whatever seems more appealing to you; there's no wrong choice.

[Gavpwn]

Cheers, Arthur. I'm a Backstabber. I reckon I'll go Assassination/Duelist. Even though Backstabbers shouldn't need defence but I don't want to go even further into the Mathematics and Stats because I'll get even more confused and just give up.. >_<

Modifié par Gavpwn, 07 janvier 2011 - 10:10 .

[termokanden]

You WILL get attacked. Anyway at this point just play through the game. You can make another character later when you know more about the game.

[Gavpwn]

termokanden wrote...

You WILL get attacked. Anyway at this point just play through the game. You can make another character later when you know more about the game.

Good point. I need to stop worrying about small details. I was exactly the same with Oblivion and Fallout though.

[Arthur Cousland]

As for the importance of defense, there will be some parts of the game where your warden isn't with a party, and having high defense certainly makes staying alive easier. Dagger users also gain damage+attack from dexterity, and so it can only be a good thing to have at least a decent amount of dexterity.



I also sometimes worry about the small details too much. When I first start a game, I can go through around a dozen or so characters before I stick with one. If it's not stats, then I'll not be happy with some facial feature and restart....again and again...

[Gavpwn]

As for the importance of defense, there will be some parts of the game where your warden isn't with a party, and having high defense certainly makes staying alive easier. Dagger users also gain damage+attack from dexterity, and so it can only be a good thing to have at least a decent amount of dexterity.

I'm going to get my DEX up to around 30. I need it for abilities as it is. The Fade will help with that too.

I also sometimes worry about the small details too much. When I first start a game, I can go through around a dozen or so characters before I stick with one. If it's not stats, then I'll not be happy with some facial feature and restart....again and again...

That's the exact same as I am, I'm sticking with my Noble for now though. I like the idea of his 'Fall of Grace' into a world he is unfarmilliar with, coming from a privileged background. As for the stats I've pretty much got them sorted out. Same for Skills and Abilities. That took me a while though. Haha. I like to have things planned.

Modifié par Gavpwn, 07 janvier 2011 - 04:45 .

[Last Darkness]

I dont see what the problem is here?

If you want to play Duelist then do it, its not a bad setup just not the best either. Keep in mind unless you have a good tank, backstabbing will not be a option 100% of the time and thats where duelist talents come into play. But a Bard is going to do more damage per hit and your party is going to do more damage per hit though. This is why Bard/Assassin is considered the best setup for a Cun rogue. Keep in mind you can even stack Bards songs so you get 3 times the effect as well. I myself prefer going the elemental damage route, since +15 damage runes on your weapon, some damage and stun from poison, two mages running fire and ice, and stacking 4 resists debuffs on a target can get you doing a couple hundred damage per hit with daggers. Though this build works better with a duel dagger warrior berserker/reaver.

[Gavpwn]

Last Darkness wrote...

I dont see what the problem is here?
If you want to play Duelist then do it, its not a bad setup just not the best either. Keep in mind unless you have a good tank, backstabbing will not be a option 100% of the time and thats where duelist talents come into play. But a Bard is going to do more damage per hit and your party is going to do more damage per hit though. This is why Bard/Assassin is considered the best setup for a Cun rogue. Keep in mind you can even stack Bards songs so you get 3 times the effect as well. I myself prefer going the elemental damage route, since +15 damage runes on your weapon, some damage and stun from poison, two mages running fire and ice, and stacking 4 resists debuffs on a target can get you doing a couple hundred damage per hit with daggers. Though this build works better with a duel dagger warrior berserker/reaver.

Thanks for the help. I was thinking of using Grandmaster Paralyse and Grandmaster Elemental Runes for my weapons to stack up the damage. Just another point too though I've been considering going a different route. I got the Duelist Spec 2 days ago and I'm pondering whether or not I should go Bard/Duelist. I think that'd be a really interesting build and a bit different from the normal that I see. It'd also be interesting for my character's story line.

Any feedback on that idea?

Modifié par Gavpwn, 10 janvier 2011 - 04:08 .

[termokanden]

It'll work just fine but will do less damage. I don't really care about Feast of the Fallen that much (returns very little stamina and the killing blow MUST be a backstab), but Mark of Death is great, and obviously you want to deal more damage on backstabs.

Damage-wise (from your main character at least), the winner is still Bard/Assassin. All the other combinations work though. Duelist sacrifices damage for a bit of defense as I see it (Pinpoint Strike is a terrible ability, high cooldown and you can already crit on every hit by backstabbing). Ranger sacrifices personal bonuses for a pet that just might deal more damage than the bonus damage from any of the other specializations. That said, a CUNNING-based rogue works best with Bard/Assassin because both are heavily based on cunning.

Modifié par termokanden, 10 janvier 2011 - 04:23 .

[Gavpwn]

Damn it.

I've already spend a Specialisation Point on Duelist now. The thing that bothers me about the Assassin Spec is that you have to wait ages to get it. Even though it's the best Spec to have. In my head and story wise though Bard/Duelist work together better than Assassin/Duelist but I should really base my decisions on stats and damage rather than what works best for the Roleplay value and should have gone Assassin/Bard.

Bah. I'll make this work some how. Besides it's my first character. So it's a learning curve.

Modifié par Gavpwn, 11 janvier 2011 - 10:14 .

[Elhanan]

As one that plays Duelist over Bard; no worries. Let Lil sing while you riposte.

BTW - Paralysis runes kinda stack; at least granting an improved chance of working for each one used.

[termokanden]

Like I said earlier: Really do not worry about what is technically best. You WILL make your first playthrough suboptimal. I'm playing through New Vegas for the first time at the moment and I already messed up my character build a bit. There isn't even anything wrong with your character build. It doesn't do the highest possible damage but who cares.



By the way. It was mentioned that Song of Courage stacks. It does. But it doesn't stack for the second rogue to use it. If you have 3 rogues, the first will get 3 stacks, the second 2, and the third will only get one. So it's somewhat annoying to use more than one actually.

[Gavpwn]

Elhanan wrote...

As one that plays Duelist over Bard; no worries. Let Lil sing while you riposte.
BTW - Paralysis runes kinda stack; at least granting an improved chance of working for each one used.

I'm going to skip Riposte. It's not worth 2 Talent Points where as Grand Master Paralyse Runes are. With a chance to stun Poison too along with Party talents I can do without it.

termokanden wrote...

Like I said earlier: Really do not worry about what is technically best. You WILL make your first playthrough suboptimal. I'm playing through New Vegas for the first time at the moment and I already messed up my character build a bit. There isn't even anything wrong with your character build. It doesn't do the highest possible damage but who cares.



By the way. It was mentioned that Song of Courage stacks. It does. But it doesn't stack for the second rogue to use it. If you have 3 rogues, the first will get 3 stacks, the second 2, and the third will only get one. So it's somewhat annoying to use more than one actually.

I've completed Fallout: New Vegas and found it good but it didn't live up to the hype and in my opinion Fallout 3 is better. Then again that's with all DLC. So we'll have to see what Fallout: New Vegas DLC is like.

I understand this character may be Subpar. So I may as well just go with the flow and enjoy it. It's just nice to have other people's opinions and help now and again if I feel as if I've made a mistake.. Haha. =)

Modifié par Gavpwn, 11 janvier 2011 - 04:42 .

[termokanden]

Funny. I played Fallout 3 and I like New Vegas more. I think it may have to do with the Jury Rigging perk and weapon repair kits. Repairs were (for me) by far the most annoying thing in Fallout 3.

[Realranger55]

Bard\\assassin is the typical way to build a cunning backstabber since they all feed off the huge cunning so well. Only way I'd recommend duelist over bard is if you weren't using a dedicated tank. Even then I think I'd recommend bard.

[lokasenni]

Riposte is one of the abilities, along with Dirty Fighting / Arrow of Slaying / Coup de Grace / Master Stealth, that let you decimate enemy groups on your own in nightmare as a rogue. Skipping it would be not be advised. If you want to stealth up ahead and remove enemies, you'll wish you had it.  Reposte out of stealth is deadly.

Modifié par lokasenni, 13 janvier 2011 - 07:07 .

[Elhanan]

heh! I was using riposte as an illustration of the duelist animation; not the talent. But yeah! I like to Stun and Knockdown when possible.

[Gavpwn]

Fallout: New Vegas:
I guess I was just a little disappointed that I didn't do more exploring on F:NV and I prefer the levelling system on Fallout 3. That's just my personal opinion though. I'm currently in the middle of creating a perfect character. 100 on all Skills and 10 on all S.P.E.C.I.A.L.

Riposte:
I'm only playing through on Normal right now though. I don't have the time or patience for Nightmare right now. Trying to juggle Work, Girlfriend and Gaming is so hard. I've had the game for 2 weeks or so and I've only clocked 12 hours..

Assassin/Bard:
Is there anyway to replace my Duelist talent then? Or am I screwed until I reroll? Heh.

Modifié par Gavpwn, 13 janvier 2011 - 01:15 .