93 réponses à ce sujet

[Kronner]

I don't want Vanguard to be Adept-lite.

The more different these classes are the better -- replay value goes up.



But give us more options - no Shockwave and Pull, but let us pick from pool of biotic powers (not all of course, leave the advanced like Reave, Singularity etc. exclusive to Adept). Pretty much the same for Infiltrator. Sentinel needs to be nerfed a bit - increase cooldowns a bit, especially for Tech Armor and remove the squad CD restore feature.

[Irzhen]

sinosleep wrote...

I agree with you on a lot of things man but thus ie NOT one of them. You take away the shield recharge and you may as well get rid of charge all together. The point of change is going charge headlong into danger so you can make effective use of your shotty. Can't do that without the shield regen.

That's what barrier would be used for. Although necessary in the current system, the shield recharge does make thinks a bit easier than it should be on some situations. The cd on barrier would be the problem though, as using it would prevent the use of other powers which is contraditory to the ideia of the changes. Casting it before charging wouldn't be a perfect solution as it would increase the cd of charge in pratice, or you could charge right away and it would be worse than now since the cd on barrier is longer than charge. 

The ideia of being able to use other powers in addition to charge is good, and to not make a vanguard an industrible tank the shield recharge would need to go away, which like you said would kill charge on higher difficulties. It needs polishing, but I think it's a good ideia.

[Bozorgmehr]

Your Vanguard wouldn't be an Adept-lite; It would be just like it is now, but with the ability to use some biotics (the most powerful are meant for the Adept only, but that's a different story). It's more like a ME2 Vanguard and an CQC Adept-lite in one. Check my previous post for more info.

I used the Vanguard and Infiltrator as an example. They have a unique power that has to be used all the time, I'm not changing that. My idea only allows managing offensive and defensive abilities manually. If your Vanguard doesn't need shield regen, (s)he can use offensive biotic power instead.

Modifié par Bozorgmehr, 06 janvier 2011 - 09:25 .

[Kronner]

In that case, you would Charge and then use biotics...which is Adept-lite that can Charge. It could work, but if you have 2 cooldowns, one for Charge and the other for everything else, it will be really hard to balance. I'd rather keep it simple: increase level, number of powers and give option to pick certain number of powers. Don't allow tech powers for biotics, and vice versa (Energy Drain boosting barrier is laughable at best etc.). Increase Charge cooldown to make it more tactical power without the option to just blindly charge everything if need be.

If you could have this:

Charge
class passive talent
Combat 1
Combat 2
Combat 3
Biotic 1
Biotic 2
Biotic 3
Biotic 4

You'd have options without gimping Charge. Make Reave and Singularity exclusive to Adept.

Modifié par Kronner, 06 janvier 2011 - 09:37 .

[tonnactus]

The sentinel needs a real unique power that only a sentinel could need.There is no real reason why a engineer shouldnt be able to use tech armor too(and enemies do exactly this)
A power that have a tech and biotic effect would be nice. Tech armor isnt a sentinel power.

And the vanguard needs to get back warp.Its laughable that a offensive biotic class doesnt have access to a offensive biotic power.

Modifié par tonnactus, 06 janvier 2011 - 09:35 .

[Doctah T]

What if Cloak evolved either to allow you to keep your shields/regen your shield, or do extra damage with the sniper or something? That way, if you're CQC, you wouldn't have to deal with GSB.



As for charge? I'll admit I haven't played Vanguard that much, so I probably shouldn't be commenting anything at all, but it feels like like you have a hard enough time staying alive while charging even with the shield boost.



Also, dealing with the CD of Barrier and GSB would be tricky; if you keep it too low, people will be able to spam it and never die in bad situations, but if it's too high, you won't be able to effectively use your powers after you charge/cloak in.



I love the idea for separate cooldowns for Sentinels. I always questioned why my omni-tool was on cooldown after using my amp.

[tonnactus]

Aynien wrote...

What about soldiers?Is there any way to not make them AR addicts?

Easy.Special weapon powers like carnage and assasination shot(just examples). And removing the crap that ammo "powers" are completly.

[Bozorgmehr]

OK there seems to be some miss interpretation here. I stick to the Vanguard and Infiltrator:

They can use Charge and Cloak just like it is now - their unique power gets its own independent CD.

All the other powers are on a Global CD system.

To balance things, the effects of Charge and Cloak need to be gimped, to not make them OP (hence the Cloak-shield-lost and Charge-no-regen part)

All the other powers are there to support main ability. If players need instant protection, they can have that (if they invested points in defense power). Vanguards and Infiltrators can play just like it is now, they just have to press two buttons to get the net effect as it is now. But players who don't need protection straight away, can wait until they do and manually trigger the effect OR use one of the other (offensive/CC) powers,

It only adds choices, not limitations - it does require to redesign power cooldown system (Barrier restoring half shield instead of full, but on a much faster cd - for example)

[Kronner]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

OK there seems to be some miss interpretation here. I stick to the Vanguard and Infiltrator:
They can use Charge and Cloak just like it is now - their unique power gets its own independent CD.
All the other powers are on a Global CD system.
To balance things, the effects of Charge and Cloak need to be gimped, to not make them OP (hence the Cloak-shield-lost and Charge-no-regen part)
All the other powers are there to support main ability. If players need instant protection, they can have that (if they invested points in defense power). Vanguards and Infiltrators can play just like it is now, they just have to press two buttons to get the net effect as it is now. But players who don't need protection straight away, can wait until they do and manually trigger the effect OR use one of the other (offensive/CC) powers,
It only adds choices, not limitations - it does require to redesign power cooldown system (Barrier restoring half shield instead of full, but on a much faster cd - for example)

No, I knew what you meant right from the time I made the first post
Who is gonna use Throw on an enemy, if he has defenses up and you are in point blank range (or close to it), just perfect position for a shotgun shot? It'd just take away one hotkey, 99% of players would do Charge-Barrier combo. Keep in mind console controllers are limited, you'd take away 2 buttons just to make Charge usable

Modifié par Kronner, 06 janvier 2011 - 09:43 .

[lazuli]

Kronner wrote...
 It'd just take away one hotkey, 99% of players would do Charge-Barrier combo. Keep in mind console controllers are limited, you'd take away 2 buttons just to make Charge usable

Thanks for bringing that up Kronner.

I don't find Charge overpowered.  It has a built in balancing mechanism.  You can't really Charge to safety.  Sure, you can Charge to a lesser degree of danger.  But you have to Charge to an enemy.  That balances it. 

It's incredibly strong in the hands of a master, though.  And shouldn't it be?  Back when ME2 was new (and to a lesser degree now), Vanguards got a lot of hate on the boards for being weak on Insanity.  That was because the vast majority of users hadn't mastered Charge.  I don't think the class with the steepest learning curve needs to be any more difficult for beginners to use.

[Kronner]

Well, they should increase the base cooldown by at least 2s IMHO, so that the player will have to think more on Insanity/Hardcore. It wouldn't really affect the lower difficulties since enemies are pathetic on those levels.

It would also make other Vanguard powers more useful. Player would be forced to consider more options instead of "Oh, 4  mercs, lets use Over...ah screw it, I will Charge those fookers anyway :D".
Add more weapos (Vanguard - Shotgun + AR + Pistol; Infiltrator - SR + AR + Pistol) and you have a class with a lot of options and dilemmas.

Modifié par Kronner, 06 janvier 2011 - 09:54 .

[Bozorgmehr]

Kronner wrote...

Who is gonna use Throw on an enemy, if he has defenses up and you are in point blank range (or close to it), just perfect position for a shotgun shot?

Charging an enemy and killing him using shotgun, turning around to another enemy (just outside of optimal shotgun range), using squadmate to insta-strip defense (if needed), immediately Pull the target, to either use shotgun, Throw or squadmate Warp (explosion) to kill target (within seconds), sounds pretty awesome to me!

It'd just take away one hotkey, 99% of players would do Charge-Barrier combo.

Well, that's their problem^_^

Besides, most players use Charge often just to regen shields (Charging the enemy right in front of em) - no need to act stupid like that

Keep in mind console controllers are limited, you'd take away 2 buttons just to make Charge usable

Yes that's the difficult part, but I read about some great and easy ways to allow console players to map/use a lot more powers. But I'm on pc so you've to ask them what they like best and how to do it exactly.

This system doesn't require more powers than in ME2, you can allow players to select certain powers to match their playstyle (like you've proposed before)

[Kronner]

Well, you can use squad to do that for you...Charge (your CD), Overload (Miranda), Pull (Jacob), shotgun shot (you). Maybe if Charge was Vasir-like, your idea could work. But I'd still prefer leaving Charge as is, but increase cooldown to make it more tactical power and make the other powers more useful at the same time. Otherwise Charge becomes just a cool transportation move, with the only benefit being flanking (which is not even possible in all fights). Add more weapons, more powers (Shotgun Carnage would be awesome for example) and the class becomes much more fun to play and with a lot more options and tactical depth.

Modifié par Kronner, 06 janvier 2011 - 10:17 .

[Bozorgmehr]

Miranda's Overload is on 12 s cd, Jacob's Pull on 9 s and jacob has to be right behind you to have him Pull target towards you. You can't use that combo often.

I don't think increasing Charge's cd will help much, it only increases the need to use it defensively (you've likely lost shield when cooldown finishes). Splitting powers will spice things up. Don't forget this isn't Insanity only, on Normal powers like Pull and Throw can do all sort of things to the enemy.

Options is what it's all about, but I don't like giving Vanguard options to fight at long range (that would make them Adept lite). I'd like them to be CQC masters, but with more than one trick on their sleeves.

[Kronner]

Another thing that occured to me, I think that most people that are still posting in this section generally play on Insanity. If you look at Normal, you have a lot of options already

edit:

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Miranda's Overload is on 12 s cd,
Jacob's Pull on 9 s and jacob has to be right behind you to have him
Pull target towards you. You can't use that combo often.
I don't
think increasing Charge's cd will help much, it only increases the need
to use it defensively (you've likely lost shield when cooldown
finishes). Splitting powers will spice things up. Don't forget this
isn't Insanity only, on Normal powers like Pull and Throw can do all
sort of things to the enemy.
Options is what it's all about, but I
don't like giving Vanguard options to fight at long range (that would
make them Adept lite). I'd like them to be CQC masters, but with more
than one trick on their sleeves.

There can always be more Charge evolutions, Shotgun Carnage that becomes available if you kill X enemies in Y time etc.. 2 separate cooldowns (without drastic power changes) would not work very well in the game IMHO.

Modifié par Kronner, 06 janvier 2011 - 10:27 .

[Bozorgmehr]

Kronner wrote...

Add more weapons, more powers (Shotgun Carnage would be awesome for example) and the class becomes much more fun to play and with a lot more options and tactical depth.

Carnage would indeed be awesome, but I'd like the option to either use Carnage, immediately followed by Charge or Charge and having it ready for an emergency. It would only really add something to the VG's arsenal if such abilities can still be used without interfering Charge (seperate cooldown).

There can always be more Charge evolutions, Shotgun Carnage that becomes available if you kill X enemies in Y time etc.. 2 separate cooldowns (without drastic power changes) would not work very well in the game IMHO.

That's an option, but I don't think adding only one cooldown timer is that much of an issue - having more powers available to Shep and squad is more problematic IMHO - one extra cd for Shep only should also work reasonably well on consoles (they could play ME1 after all).

Modifié par Bozorgmehr, 06 janvier 2011 - 10:36 .

[Malanek]

Is this for ME3 or a patch to ME2? I suspect it is for ME3. I don't think anything should be nerfed with the possible exception of Adrenaline rush. Balance should be tweaked by what new abilities are added while making some weaker powers (like shockwave) a little bit better.



Deciding whether to split cooldowns is a MAJOR decision. I think it should be looked at because it does promote more diversity in gameplay. On the other hand gameplay was significantly better in ME2 than ME1 and this was part of it.



I think the Vanguard, Infiltrator and Engineer are all well balanced. They should just be given some new powers, interesting passives if possible. Some of the powers from Borderlands are good examples to look at, almost everything is passive but there is some great variety. Vanguards could get a boost to damage or shields eveytime they kill something for example. Engineeer could get a second drone maybe a slightly different one. Infiltrators cloak could be maintained for longer after the first shot and maybe have an ability that didn't break the cloak at all.



The Adept is a little bit weak. I have talked about what I would do with that in a few other places.



The OP was right with the Sentinel, it feels more like a tank than anything else. Could lo0ok at a major redesign. If you don't split cooldowns in general, I do think it makes sense for the sentinels tech and biotic cooldowns to be split and that would be pretty cool IMO.



The Soldier should remain as a popular choice for players who prefer straight shooters. Don't get too cute with it. Adrenaline rush is a little bit good, but if we are going from lvl 30 upwards it might balance out automatically. Players who like shooters like more guns. Allow high level soldiers to carry a second heavy weapon.



And of course fix as many bugs to things like stasis and the mattock as possible.

[ezrafetch]

I do quite like the separated cooldown of the class skill and the rest of the skills. That was the first thing I kinda thought of browsing the thread before posting, but I thought of a sort of cooldown-trip system where you can chain powers together to some extent but if you go "over the limit" in terms of casting rate, you'd be penalized by not being able to cast any more and be forced to deal with a much longer cooldown than, say, the time left on one cooldown + new cooldown. Overall it functions similarly to splitting the class power and the rest of them, but there may be subtle differences that I haven't really rationalized yet.

Another thing I thought of was if people want the weapon skills back (Marksman, Carnage, Overkill, Assassination), they could be available for classes, and shift Ammo Powers back to upgrades. But instead of having them slot "into" weapons through an inventory screen (a la ME1) which just slows the pace of play down, just have ammo powers/upgrades selected at the start of the mission like with how one already selects weapons. It would basically just be one more sub-screen, basically. You could also restrict one ammo power to each member of the squad but I feel like this is too restrictive (i.e. you want to stick Cryo on one gun but Tungsten on another). Another possibility is to just restrict what Ammo Powers certain guns can receive, but it feels only marginally better (or just worse) than restricting the number of ammos usable by member...

Modifié par ezrafetch, 06 janvier 2011 - 10:38 .

[Irzhen]

Restoring a vanguard barriers by killing wouldn't make much sense but it could work and I wouldn't mind if it was instead of the recharge as it is now.

But and why not add specialitations like there was on ME1? For example, on lower levels charge would regenerate a little bit of shields, not much but enough to not die the instant you get in the middle of the enemies, but at some rank it would stop increasing the shields, and as you would level up that ammount of shields would mean less. Then one of the passive evolutions would increase the amount of shields charge recharge as the charge rank increase, while the other would give some bonus to other biotics like lower cd, increase duration or something. Just though of this now, don't really though about the drawbacks with this. 

[Bozorgmehr]

Malanek999 wrote...

I think the Vanguard, Infiltrator and Engineer are all well balanced. They should just be given some new powers, interesting passives if possible. Some of the powers from Borderlands are good examples to look at, almost everything is passive but there is some great variety. Vanguards could get a boost to damage or shields eveytime they kill something for example. Engineeer could get a second drone maybe a slightly different one. Infiltrators cloak could be maintained for longer after the first shot and maybe have an ability that didn't break the cloak at all.

Some additional Passive powers / Evolutions would be nice, and I agree that the above classes are reasonably well balanced, i.e. they have the skills to play like they're meant to (VGs being at the vanguard all the time) - problem is they rely on one power most of the time. I'd like to keep the overall immersion but adding options so Vanguards can do more than just Charge, while Charging.

The Adept is a little bit weak. I have talked about what I would do with that in a few other places.

It could boost Adepts too, putting both Singularity and Stasis (without bugs, just CC and Adept only) on one cooldown; and other powers (including Barrier if player desires to) on the other Global CD. They would be excellent CCers (better than they are now) and much more durable (Barrier).

Soldier and Sentinel are even more complicated. The main point here is to have two cooldowns to add options.

[Sailears]

Edit: silly forum formatting, messing everything up!

Final comment: I started this when there were no replies to the thread, so apologies but I haven't read any of the replies posted. Also I might come back and edit this or add to it if some new ideas come to me.
Also I'm not sure exactly where this brainstorming went, but it seems to be more of a rebalance for ME2 rather than ideas for ME3, but I'm sure the ideas can be extrapolated.
In any case it's just food for thought and you are welcome to expand on what I've written.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I agree that having charge and cloak on a separate cooldown would open up the gameplay of those classes as you suggested.
Could this be expended to all classes without breaking them? Having all the class specific powers on separate cooldown. As it is there is one class specific, and four supplementary powers (2 and 2 for hybrid classes).

Ok I'm going to go out on a limb here and create a hypothetical situation:

1) say there were no ammo powers (replaced by weapon mods)
2) and there were combat powers to take their place (2 active and 2 passive talents, because soldiers get to use more guns).
3) In addition to this, all classes get grenades which can be toggled between projectile mode (lob them) and hover mode (like in ME1).
5) All classes get basic pistol (predator or some other basic pistol). Encumberance values determine how many other weapons they can carry.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Weapon encumberance system:
Each class starts with a base value, and can fill this any way they like with the starter weapons. The class encumberance can be increased through talents, and other weapons can be used as they are found/unlocked. Encumberance increases 1 point per rank, so at rank 3 (requires 6 points) you will get the extra 3 points (before commando or shock trooper).

Weapon encumerbance values for loadout:
1 - Pistol upgrades (carnifex, phalanx), and shuriken.
2 - Larger SMGs.
3 - Base Shotguns, ARs, and SRs (huge category).
4 - Revenant, Claymore, Widow (special weapons - soldier/infiltrator/vanguard only).
5 - Heavy Weapon.

-------------------------------------------------------------
Armour encumberance system:
I won't go into great length here, partly because I'm getting tired and can't think too clearly, and also because it is quite complicated to list examples.
Essentially armour pieces are given three different grades, light/medium/heavy. I think you get the drift. classes can heavy or medium parts through their class talent just like weapon encumberance - at rank 3 (6 points) to unlock. Soldiers can wear up to heavy; vanguards and infiltrators can wear up to medium. Adepts engineers and sentinels can only wear light.

-------------------------------------------------
Biotic and tech power charge up for adept and engineer only:
All biotic and tech powers have a base damage/duration/aoe. This can be augmented by charging powers for increased damage/duration/aoe, which is drawn from a biotic/tech pool, by holding the hotkey of the power you want to cast for a few seconds. This can be done in cover.

My initial idea was that heavy/area versions should be scrapped in
favour of mousing over targets while charging, to unleash area powers,
but I think that is too radical a change from the current system, so I have toned it down a bit.

Singularity has two new versions (see adept below), because charging it up is enough to increase it's radius/damage/duration.
Heavy and area versions of throw and pull are fine.
If you fully charge up a heavy pull, you can lift fully defended targets for the full duration.
If you charge up a pull field, it will increase the area and duration.
If you fully charge up a heavy throw, fully defended (one layer) targets will be thrown back as if there were no defence.
If you charge up a throw field, the area and force is increased.

Obviously that is a very coarse and basic example of it. The idea is that the change is more continuous - longer charge allows bypassing more defences, more power, more duration, more area of effect.

Similarly for tech powers - heavy overload for instance can be used as a killing tool on a fully defended target if fully charged up, and charged area overload can decimate shields over a larger area.
Fully charged deep cryo blast could instantly freeze, kill and shatter an enemy.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I'm just going to list some hypothetical class structures, please
don't take them too seriously - they are only to illustrate a point.


-------Soldier-------
Base weapon encumberance of 9. Can be upgraded to 12.
Starting loadout example, Predator (0) Avenger (3) Katana (3) Mantis (3)... Total = 9
Upgraded loadout example, Carnifex (1) Revenant (4) Eviscerator (3) Viper (3)... Total = 11
Alternative, Carnifex (1) Locust (2) Claymore (4) Heavy Weapon (5)... Total = 12
Another, Predator (0) Shuriken (1) Mantis (3) Eviscerator (3) Heavy Weapon (5)... Total = 12

Main (separate cooldown)
- Adrenaline Rush
Supplementary active talents
- Concussive Shot
- Lethal strike (melee attack when close enough to an enemy, like the attack part of Kasumi's shadow strike. Possibly with a combat knife or your equipped gun or omni tool. Deals a lot of damage. Stuns enemies on health for a short time.)
    - Deadly strike: if enemy is unaware or disabled (eg, pull/neural shock/concussive blast), can instakill. Otherwise deals increased damage.
    - Rapid strike: Reduced cooldown if enemy is killed. Increased stun duration if enemy is not killed but defenseless.
Supplementary passive talents
- Assault Training (more melee and weapon damage, faster grenade throw animation and weapon switch animation)
- Fitness (sprint speed and duration, and damage resistance)
class specific
- Soldier (health, weapon damage, para/rene, armour encumberance, weapon encumberance)
    - Commando: Increased power damage, weapon damage.
    - Shock Trooper: Increased power duration, health, para/Rene.


-------Vanguard-------
Base weapon encumberance of 6. Can be upgraded to 9.
Starting loadout example, Predator (0) Locust (2) Katana (3)... Total = 5
Upgraded loadout example, Predator (0) Tempest (2) Claymore (4) Viper (3)... Total = 9
Alternative, Carnifex (1) Eviscerator (3) Heavy Weapon (5)... Total = 9
Another, Carnifex (1) Claymore (4) Mattock (3) ... Total = 8

Main (separate cooldown)
- Charge
Active combat talent
- Concussive Shot
Passive combat talent
- Assault Training (more melee and weapon damage, faster grenade throw animation and weapon switch animation)
Biotic Talents
- Pull
- Shockwave (damages shields)
class specific
- Vanguard (health, weapon damage, power cooldown, para/rene, armour encumberance, weapon encumberance)
    - Champion: Increased health, power cooldown and duration, para/rene.
    - Destroyer: Increased weapon damage and power damage.


-------Infiltrator-------
Base weapon encumberance of 6. Can be upgraded to 9.
Starting loadout example, Predator (0) Locust (2) Mantis (3)... Total = 5
Upgraded loadout example, Predator (0) Tempest (2) Widow (4) GPS (3)... Total = 9
Alternative, Carnifex (1) Viper (3) Heavy Weapon (5)... Total = 9
Another, Carnifex (1) Widow (4) Mattock (3) ... Total = 8

Main (separate cooldown)
- Cloak
Active combat talent
- Lethal strike (melee attack when close enough to an enemy, like the
attack part of Kasumi's shadow strike. Possibly with a combat knife or
your equipped gun or omni tool. Deals a lot of damage. Stuns enemies on health for a short time.)
    - Deadly strike: if enemy is unaware or disabled (eg, pull/neural shock/concussive blast), can instakill. Otherwise deals increased damage.
    - Rapid strike: Reduced cooldown if enemy is killed. Increased stun duration if enemy is not killed but defenseless.
Passive combat talent
- Fitness (sprint speed and duration, and damage resistance)
Tech talents
- AI Hacking
- Cryo blast (cryo suits a stealth class more than incinerate)
class specific
- Infiltrator (weapon damage, power cooldown, sniper time dilation, para/rene, armour encumberance, weapon encumberance)
    - Agent: Increased power cooldown and duration, para/rene, health.
    - Assassin: Increased sniper time dilation and duration, weapon damage, power damage.


-------Adept-------
Base weapon encumberance of 3. Can be upgraded to 6.
Starting loadout example, Predator (0) Locust (2)... Total = 2
Upgraded loadout example, Predator (0) Tempest (2) Katana (3)... Total = 5
Alternative, Predator (0) Mattock (3) GPS (3))... Total = 6
Another, Carnifex (1) Heavy Weapon (5) ... Total = 6

Main (separate cooldown)
- Singularity
    - Rapid cooldown: Reduces the cooldown to 3 seconds
    - Heavy singularity: Increases radius/damage/duration.
Supplementary talents
- Warp
- Throw
- Pull
- Shockwave (damages shields)
class specific
- Adept (power cooldown, para/rene, biotic power charge up - can charge powers for longer for increased damage/duration/aoe)
    - Bastion: Increased power cooldown, duration (base duration), para/rene, health.
    - Nemesis: Increased biotic charge pool and charge potential, power damage (base damage).


-------Engineer-------
Base weapon encumberance of 3. Can be upgraded to 6.
See adept.

Main (separate cooldown)
- Combat Drone
Supplementary talents
- Incinerate
- Overload
- AI Hacking
- Cryo blast
class specific
- Engineer (power cooldown, para/rene, tech power charge up - can charge powers for increased damage/duration/aoe)
    - Demolisher: Increased power damage (base damage), tech charge pool and charge potential.
    - Mechanic: Increased health, power cooldown, duration (base duration), para/rene


-------Sentinel-------
Base weapon encumberance of 3. Can be upgraded to 6.
See adept.

Main (separate cooldown)
- Tech Armour
Supplementary biotic talents (separate cooldown)
- Warp
- Throw
Supplementary tech talents (separate cooldown)
- Incinerate
- Overload
class specific
- Sentinel (power damage, power cooldown, para/rene)
    - Guardian: Increased health, para/rene, power cooldown, unity has its own cooldown.
    - Raider: Increased power damage and cooldown.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok, that took more hours than I intended! Just food for thought, to help stimulate anyone's imagination.

-----------------------------------------------

Afterthoughts:
Firstly, not sure on sentinel, I tried to give it an edge by separating tech and biotic cooldowns, because the other classes have all been given an edge -
adept/engineer get the charge up ability;
vanguard and infiltrator get medium armour and more guns;
soldier gets heavy armour and yet more guns, and like vanguards can rapidly switch weapons and throw grenades.

Secondly regarding fitness, I contemplated adding further weapon encumberance increase to it, and increasing the encumberance value of sniper rifles compared to ARs and shotguns, and this would only be for soldier and infiltrator so it makes sense. In any case I really don't have the energy to go back and recalculate all that, so if anyone else wants to have a go you're welcome to try.

------------------------------------------------

Bozorgmehr wrote...
Sentinels should be able to use the same biotic and tech powers
available to Vanguards and Infiltrators.

I'm not sure if that would work, because of the 2 and 2 power split on hybrid classes.

Modifié par Curunen, 06 janvier 2011 - 11:04 .

[Kronner]

I really like your idea for classes and their weapons loadouts, Curunen.

[Element_Zero]

*sighs* Posts like these always make me cringe a bit . . .



Ok Infiltrators I've played, and Vanguards although it's been a long time since I've run though with one. Sentinels I haven't played and am not going to make a comment on them.



In the case of Infiltrators I for some reason found myself rarely using cloak, instead I found myself always burning crap up with it (incinerate). I tend to use the Infiltrator for long range - key target take downs and let the squad handle the rest. The times I've used cloak was to grab a thermal clip for the sniper rifle (if it's close enough otherwise I rely on the pistol,) or as a way to control enemy AI suppressive fire. With Infiltrators it's a bit easier to manage the squad as well since I tend to be behind my team mates and can see what they are doing. (since the AI is a bit buggy when it comes to utilizing cover.)



With Vanguards I always found the 'charge' ability got me into too much trouble and didn't like 'circle' dancing with the enemy. (I'm not knocking it, and I know some folks out there like to brawl there way though.) 'Charge' is also a specific target ability. As far as the 'pull' or 'shockwave' goes. . . the skills seem more useful on lower levels where stuff is a bit softer. Also the 'pull' seems to be only useful to draw something in close to pound on after it's been weakened, combine it with a squadmate's warp and it tends to be more effective. Still to utilize it, you kinda have to set things up just right or wait for that moment (using a squad member's warp is a longer delay BTW -vs- 'pull' & 'warp' on the Adept.) 'Pull' can be angled in to move a enemy upward or to the left or right too if you aim it with care and after bleeding down their defenses! While 'shockwave' will damage stuff it's a bit too soft to be effective on the upper difficulty levels and it is definitely better in long hallways or in areas where the enemy is funneled. It's suppose to delay enemy charges and do some damage, yet it has a long activation delay and with enemies who are heavily protected it dose neither very well. Still the Scions make good use of it on any difficulty! 'Cryo Ammo' is suppose to delay stuff as well. 'Incendiary Ammo' is more of a armor bleeder. All of these delay abilities - skills tell me the designers wanted to give the player the chance to go one on one with things. Hence that is why the shield works the way it dose with 'charge'. 'Charge' (shield) also works the way it dose with controller - button management. . . There are only so many on them and it's suppose to give those folks options (I think) so they don't have to tie up another button for a shield boost.



I found the way I play the Vanguard makes it tough to control the squad since I find myself brawling more and way out ahead of them instead of behind. So concentrating fire wasn't always a option for me.



As far as the 'pause' goes leave it alone. It's a useful tool for those on any platform who manage multiple things. I get a bit tired of listening to it's a immersion breaker. If you don't like to use it then don't. Some controllers only have so many buttons on them. And I like it on the PC platform as well, since these days I use it to manage those goofy squad AI cover issues. (when I'm not out in front of them.) ITS A HELL OF A LOT BETTER THAN THE WAY ARMA DOSE IT. (Gawd don't get me started on that game's ****** poor interface system!) I also don't fast key my squad to the 'hot keys' either since I usually swap them (and their weapons) from mission to mission and it takes a bit of time to find there ability on the 'pause' screen. Plus trying to find 7-8 on the PC keyboard is a bit of a pain when I'm moving all the time. And if you have an 'console' controller for the PC you are also limited on buttons. .



My biggest gripe with both Infiltrators and Vanguards on the upper difficulty levels really surrounds the lack of thermal clips or shots for the Mantis / Widow or Shotguns.



Ok I've said all that I'm going to say *sighs*. . . I didn't intend to offend anyone. But I normally prefer postings that kick around new ability ideas (options) over changing this or that class. To me how to play these classes really involve timing / skills, how used you are to the human - game interface, and how you manage the enemies who come at you.

[Malanek]

By the way, I don't really like the idea of having one ability on a seperate cooldown. It almost forces players to use that ability when you should really be striving to promote as much flexibility in character builds as possible.

[Bozorgmehr]

@ Curunen: Great weapon loadout idea, and I also like the Charged Up Powers though some might be a bit too powerful. Maybe increasing cooldown if you charge up  (double cd time for example) for balance.

There're lots of cool ideas in your post. Having options and making choices would make all classes much more versatile and re-playable. That's the main aim of this thread. I also like what you did with the Soldier though ARush needs to be gimped (Slow-mo only maybe, but it can be boosted using other powers).

Modifié par Bozorgmehr, 06 janvier 2011 - 11:07 .