373 réponses à ce sujet

[Cobrawar]

In Exile wrote...

Saibh wrote...
Probably. To be fair, the people who play DA are nerdy, in general. I think, being a male-dominated industry, guys set the rules on what counts as nerdy/non-nerdy games. For instance, everyone counts The Sims as a girl game, but also not a "real" game, probably because it attracts more regular people. And those people are girls. That's not a nerd game.

Is that really the case? I really haven't seen any attitude at all toward the Sims, so I'm going to have to plead ignorance.

But a think to consider is that certain types of games are mainstream, in the sense that there isn't the same stigma associated. So for example most facebook games aren't games in the same way Mass Effect is a game.

Neither is a game like Halo. Some guys exclusively play Halo games (or a series like it), and it's not considered a nerd game. But it is considered a "real" game. I think this is the sort of thinking set down by an industry dominated by guys. Now, I'm not accusing anyone of anything wrong, that's just the way it is.

No, that's not true. Speaking as a guy who is in a fraternity (and ran it for a term a while back) Halo is absolutely on the "nerd" end of attitudes. Online gaming, multiplayer - that's lame and nerdy. RPGs are dangerously close to wearing a dress.

People have a weird idea of mainstream on this forum because how strongly we tend toward the extreme end of our hobbies. But things like FPS, in terms of how the really macho type guys will see them, fall on the nerdy side.

Sports games are the only acceptable video-game that I've seen at this level.

If thinking weren't like that, I do believe people would be more inclined to call girls gamers.

Maybe. I think self-categorization is an issue too.

 the sims is a girly game

[obsessedwjpn]

In Exile wrote...
RPGs are dangerously close to wearing a dress. 

I'm sorry but this sounds very societally defined. How exactly is playing a RPG equal wearing a dress? Why are you automatically associating RPGs with femininity? If one goes by the classical definition of the word: femininity, I don't see RPGs or in-depth stories in there.

Men are allowed to enjoy an in-depth and well thought out story, involving romance too, without the necessity of a label like "RPGs equal being feminine!" Please be a little more open-minded. I knew plenty of fraternities in college that did not think this way.

[Follow Me on Twitter]

I could see this game sitting on a moms bookshelf right next to her romance novels and sims 3.

[Saibh]

In Exile wrote...

Is that really the case? I really haven't seen any attitude at all toward the Sims, so I'm going to have to plead ignorance.

Yes. I'm surprised you've never heard that--but then, girls hear it all the time. Usually "Why don't you go back to The Sims, and stop playing our games".

No, that's not true. Speaking as a guy who is in a fraternity (and ran it for a term a while back) Halo is absolutely on the "nerd" end of attitudes. Online gaming, multiplayer - that's lame and nerdy. RPGs are dangerously close to wearing a dress.

And, where I'm from, it's very common for every guy to be playing that game (EDIT: or shooters like that, as I said previously). Fraternity or no. I'm rather amazed it's not the same way where you are.

Maybe. I think self-categorization is an issue too.

Sure. I know some girls who would smash their computers in before admitting they're a gamer who plays games.

obsessedwjpn wrote...

In Exile wrote...
RPGs are dangerously close to wearing a dress. 

I'm sorry but this sounds very societally defined. How exactly is playing a RPG equal wearing a dress? Why are you automatically associating RPGs with femininity? If one goes by the classical definition of the word: femininity, I don't see RPGs or in-depth stories in there.

Men are allowed to enjoy an in-depth and well thought out story, involving romance too, without the necessity of a label like "RPGs equal being feminine!" Please be a little more open-minded. I knew plenty of fraternities in college that did not think this way.

He's saying that's what the frat house thinks, not what he thinks.

I do think, being on these forums, he rather likes RPGs and isn't trying to challenge his own manliness.

Modifié par Saibh, 06 janvier 2011 - 08:10 .

[Follow Me on Twitter]

obsessedwjpn wrote...

In Exile wrote...
RPGs are dangerously close to wearing a dress. 

I'm sorry but this sounds very societally defined. How exactly is playing a RPG equal wearing a dress? Why are you automatically associating RPGs with femininity? If one goes by the classical definition of the word: femininity, I don't see RPGs or in-depth stories in there.

Men are allowed to enjoy an in-depth and well thought out story, involving romance too, without the necessity of a label like "RPGs equal being feminine!" Please be a little more open-minded. I knew plenty of fraternities in college that did not think this way.

Maybe he ment robe.

[MerinTB]

In Exile wrote...
Speaking as a guy who is in a fraternity (and ran it for a term a while back) Halo is absolutely on the "nerd" end of attitudes. Online gaming, multiplayer - that's lame and nerdy. RPGs are dangerously close to wearing a dress.

People have a weird idea of mainstream on this forum because how strongly we tend toward the extreme end of our hobbies. But things like FPS, in terms of how the really macho type guys will see them, fall on the nerdy side.

Sports games are the only acceptable video-game that I've seen at this level.

Speaking as a guy who visited many college campuses, including fraternities, during his computer repair job - the number of frat houses with large screens and 360's playing Call of Duty far outnumber the (in my experience non-existant) places guys lived of college age the last few years where there was NO console.

Shooters and sports games are acceptable for even the jockiest guys to enjoy now.

Trust me - my nephew is something of a big sports star in the area, and I don't know a bigger video gamer (he also plays the collectible card games, and his multiple girlfriends don't seem to think less of him.)

Heck., back when I was in high school one of my good friends was a big football star at the school across town, and he loved Robotech novels, D&D and his SNES - for Tecmo Bowl, sure, but also for Super Mario Kart and Romance of the 3 Kingdoms.

I was at one of his drinking parties for his jock friends (I and this other guy from our school stood out badly, as we weren't jocks and weren't drinking underage) but the SNES had a line for people playing Mario Kart.

*shrug*

Experiences vary.

[Follow Me on Twitter]

MerinTB wrote...

In Exile wrote...
Speaking as a guy who is in a fraternity (and ran it for a term a while back) Halo is absolutely on the "nerd" end of attitudes. Online gaming, multiplayer - that's lame and nerdy. RPGs are dangerously close to wearing a dress.

People have a weird idea of mainstream on this forum because how strongly we tend toward the extreme end of our hobbies. But things like FPS, in terms of how the really macho type guys will see them, fall on the nerdy side.

Sports games are the only acceptable video-game that I've seen at this level.

Speaking as a guy who visited many college campuses, including fraternities, during his computer repair job - the number of frat houses with large screens and 360's playing Call of Duty far outnumber the (in my experience non-existant) places guys lived of college age the last few years where there was NO console.

Shooters and sports games are acceptable for even the jockiest guys to enjoy now.

Trust me - my nephew is something of a big sports star in the area, and I don't know a bigger video gamer (he also plays the collectible card games, and his multiple girlfriends don't seem to think less of him.)

Heck., back when I was in high school one of my good friends was a big football star at the school across town, and he loved Robotech novels, D&D and his SNES - for Tecmo Bowl, sure, but also for Super Mario Kart and Romance of the 3 Kingdoms.

I was at one of his drinking parties for his jock friends (I and this other guy from our school stood out badly, as we weren't jocks and weren't drinking underage) but the SNES had a line for people playing Mario Kart.

*shrug*

Experiences vary.

Agreed EVERY and i mean EVERY guy plays call of duty. Honestly.

Its Nba2k 11 and Call of Duty and NFL 11 thats the only games some of my friends play.

[Victia]

Lol, great story glad it didn't happen to me though as I would prob have gotten the sack lmao!



As a female gamer, who has been at it since Atari and commidor, I would not call dragon age a girls game, just an exceptionally well balanced one that appeals to everyone! I play all genres of games (except sports as I just don't get them lol) and dragon age origens cemented itself as my joint fav of all time - next to ff7!



I think your customer needed an attitude reajustment and some decent gameing hours with dao!

[Cobrawar]

romance, love, relationships are just not what most guys look for in a video game. Its too mushy. Most guys want to see blood, gore, violence. Something that makes them feel superior to others playing it. The bioware games of the past always did a good job of blending the two. When you feel superior to someone else. you feel like a stud, when you feel like a stud, you are going to get laid.

Modifié par Cobrawar, 06 janvier 2011 - 08:18 .

[WomanMarine32]

LMAO ... So I'm a mom that has this game ... sims 3 is in the collection but my husband and kids play it not me ... and the game is parked next to my True Blood season Blue Rays LOL how scary what a more intuitive comment then U thought

[Kyda]

Jaulen wrote...

I play Bioware games much more than my husband....plus he's not one to go on a two and a half day gaming streak without sleep like I'll do.

First game he introduced me to,,,I stayed up the whole weekend playing trying to get the hang of the game and get leveled up.....had to call in sick to work that monday so I could sleep.

Ah, good times.

Lol...
I remember when my husband and I were dating (back in 2000) and one day he
said: I got a game for you, and it was Baldur’s Gate 2: Shadows of Amm. I
started a new game as a druid (of course) and he sat there watching; time flew
and when we looked at the clock again it was like 5 am. He started playing his
own char as well and we have been playing RPGs ever since... looking for a new Baldur’s
Gate (that we sort of found in DA:O). 

[WomanMarine32]

just one quick add ... I've been playing v games since the mid 80's, games like zelda <all of them>, Tomb Raider <all of them> Call of Duty LOL <all of them> are in my collection ... I play Red Dead Redemption as well ... when I'm home and have time ... Not just girls, but several of us 30 something women play just as well if not better ... IE more practice at the fine art of playing video games ... as for RPG's gotta love em

[Follow Me on Twitter]

Guys aren't looking for our perfect match while playing a game.



We just want to fsu, maybe kill a few zombies.

[Lukas Kristjanson]

As the range of our audience demonstrates, the guy the OP faced off with was reacting to assumptions that in context might not have been an issue for him, which is exactly why marketing tears their hair out trying to message the product.

The kneejerk stuff we run into all the time:
“Ugh, I have to stop playing to talk?”
“Romances? I don’t want to be forced to do that!”
“100 hours? I don’t have time for that!” And so on…

But of course characters are fun/exciting if you are drawn into a story, the romance elements in action titles are rarely as optional as we make them, and people spend just as many hours on action games. The difference being that some people don’t like being confronted by these things out of context. They don't sound fun to some people, even if they actually are fun to those same people.

It's the same reason there are often multiple trailers for any given movie, each focusing on a different aspect like emptional, humorous, or physical content. Sometimes that’s bad if any one of those misrepresents the experience. But sometimes it’s good, because people can legitimately experience the same movie or game in different ways, so long as you get them in the door to give it a shot.


But yeah, that guy was also kind of a knob.

Modifié par Lukas Kristjanson, 06 janvier 2011 - 08:25 .

[Bryy_Miller]

On the flip-side, guys will buy BioWare games for the hanky panky. So it's a weird hypocrisy.

Modifié par Bryy_Miller, 06 janvier 2011 - 08:28 .

[In Exile]

obsessedwjpn wrote...
I'm sorry but this sounds very societally defined. How exactly is playing a RPG equal wearing a dress? Why are you automatically associating RPGs with femininity? If one goes by the classical definition of the word: femininity, I don't see RPGs or in-depth stories in there.

Absolutely. I said it in the context of a fraternity - there, we have a culture that is male-centered and that most take it to be defining of the kind of attitude that would attribute to gender to such things in the first place.

It's not that you are bullied or otherwise excluded for this sort of thing. But it is what defines the sort of mocking you find in a particular fraternity.

I happen to find the way people are made fun of to be very indicative of the social attitudes to a particular thing. Video-gaming, at the FPS level, was nerdy. An RPG was seen as a pretty major gender role subversion.

Men are allowed to enjoy an in-depth and well thought out story, involving romance too, without the necessity of a label like "RPGs equal being feminine!" Please be a little more open-minded. I knew plenty of fraternities in college that did not think this way.

I think you've misunderstood my point. Or at least how I believe the label is being applied.

MerinTB wrote...
Speaking as a guy who visited many college
campuses, including fraternities, during his computer repair job - the
number of frat houses with large screens and 360's playing Call of Duty
far outnumber the (in my experience non-existant) places guys lived of
college age the last few years where there was NO console.

I didn't say there wasn't a console there, or that guys didn't play Call of Duty.

I said that it was seen as something nerdy. Which it is. The issue seems to be that people think that fraternities would somehow exclude nerdy guys. They don't.

MerinTB wrote...
Shooters and sports games are acceptable for
even the jockiest guys to enjoy now.

Trust me - my nephew is
something of a big sports star in the area, and I don't know a bigger
video gamer (he also plays the collectible card games, and his multiple
girlfriends don't seem to think less of him.)

Sure, but does he get made fun of for it?

Do they see the fact he plays, say, Magic the Gathering as equally awesome as the fact he excells at whatever sport he's playing?

People are confusing hostility with perception.

Playing video-games and being nerdy doesn't somehow mean you're going to be excluded from anything like this. It's society as a whole that's more open minded to labels like these. But it isn't the same thing as these things being free from labels, which is what some people are arguing.

[IRMcGhee]

Main reason I play Bioware games is for the wonderful character interplay. FSU is just a bonus

[PsychoBlonde]

I like to fsu and kill a few zombies. (<== gurl) And the only romance in Origins I actually liked was Leliana, which was totally outside my comfort zone.



I'm not a big fan of modern cover-based shooters, but I LURVED the old-school ones like Heretic, Hexen, Hexen II, Heretic II--and I'm a big, big Diablo I and II fan. I also LURVE big sandbox games like Oblivion and Fallout 3. And I LURVE Dungeons and Dragons Online. I just got my double-TR wizzy up to level 18 so I can use my Bauble and my Tower set and I AM AN UNSTOPPABLE JUGGERNAUT OF DESTRUCTION OO-RAH.



Ahem. Anyway, gurlz playz gamez. All kinds of games. Also, guyz playz gamez. All kinds of games. My housemate (who is a bit of a misogynist, actually), loves messing around with paper-doll type options. When he was playing Need For Speed a lot, it felt like every ten minutes he'd start yelling for me and when I finally got into the computer room, he was all "do you think this decal looks cool, or this one?" He's more of a fashionista than I am.

[Addai]

WomanMarine32 wrote...

just one quick add ... I've been playing v games since the mid 80's, games like zelda , Tomb Raider Call of Duty LOL are in my collection ... I play Red Dead Redemption as well ... when I'm home and have time ... Not just girls, but several of us 30 something women play just as well if not better ... IE more practice at the fine art of playing video games ... as for RPG's gotta love em

Heh yeah, I would almost say that women have more range than men often do.  I watch the war and action movies with as much enthusiasm as my husband, but he'll tolerate less mush than I can.  I really want to play Red Dead Redemption, why isn't it on PC. 

Someone mentioned DA being balanced, I think that's the ticket for me.  I like the combat stuff, but I don't want that to be all there is, just as if it were all puzzles I'd rather have a root canal than play (oh Myst, you had so much promise...), and Sims sounds incredibly dull to me.  But a mixture of all those things, with characters I actually care what happens to, that makes a successful game for me.

Someone else mentioned self-identification.  I always chat with the guys at Gamestop, and tell them the games I'm there for and that I actually play them.  In my own small way I feel like I'm making a dent in the stereotypes.

[NightmarezAbound]

Stanley Woo wrote...

I know many couples who play videogames together (both co-op and playing the same game on different systems at the same time). Many of them are BioWare game fans, and usually it's the girl who's consistently farther ahead in the game than the guy! or maybe I just know some very odd, and awesome, girls.

 There is a reason for this, the ladies know how much their significant others like to yap about the game and well, want to make sure they get there first before it is spoiled.


 of course there is an opposite to this, my ex-wife forever put me off reading the Disc World books by telling me every significant joke in them.

[Snoteye]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

On the flip-side, guys will buy BioWare games for the hanky panky. So it's a weird hypocrisy.

I have hated the hanky-panky ever since they stopped doing fade-to-blacks.

[BroBear Berbil]

Lukas Kristjanson wrote...


“100 hours? I don’t have time for that!” And so on…

Off topic but I find it amazing when people complain about games being too long and not having the time. My 47 year old mother borrowed Lost Odyssey from me and only played it occasionally on weekends and still managed to log 100 hours into that game. She too hated that game as much as me by the time she was at the end of it.

[Follow Me on Twitter]

Lol, add a zombie mode to Da2.



Boom thats a shot of testosterone.

[PsychoBlonde]

NightmarezAbound wrote...

 There is a reason for this, the ladies know how much their significant others like to yap about the game and well, want to make sure they get there first before it is spoiled.

Also, guys don't yell as much when their female S.O. is ignoring them in favor of a game, so we get to make better usage of free time.

[AngelicMachinery]

Gender stereotypes in general make me a sad panda.