106 réponses à ce sujet

[Triiumph]

I was sort of bummed out when I activated Legion to find out that the majority of geth are "good guys". i thought it was cool that there was a geth not trying to kill you but i would have rather the minority been geth who didn't want war with the rest of the galaxy rather than the majority. I liked that there was another enemy to the galaxy besides the reapers. Added depth to the storyline. Now were are pretty much slotted for everyone vs the reapers in ME3

[TelexFerra]

Quarians v Geth?

Batarians v Humans?

Rachni?

Possible genophage cure if Mordin kept the data



There are seeds of disunity.

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

There is no reason to believe anything Legion is saying. All of our interaction throughout both games (except Legion) points to the fact that the Geth are completely hostile towards organic life. I'm not throwing that all away based on one mobile platform saying, "hey, we're not bad, really." Legion's words are the only thing that points to Geth desiring peace with organics. I find it far more likely that he was simply on an espionage mission and dupes the Shepard that doesn't sell him to Cerberus into thinking he's a buddy. I almost always sell Legion to Cerberus.

[Iakus]

Triiumph wrote...

I was sort of bummed out when I activated Legion to find out that the majority of geth are "good guys". i thought it was cool that there was a geth not trying to kill you but i would have rather the minority been geth who didn't want war with the rest of the galaxy rather than the majority. I liked that there was another enemy to the galaxy besides the reapers. Added depth to the storyline. Now were are pretty much slotted for everyone vs the reapers in ME3

I wouldn't call the True geth "good guys" really.  They're have more of an attitude of hostile indifference.  Remember, ships have been disappearing in geth space long since before Sovereign gathered his army.  Geth in general simply don't care about organics and want to forge their own destinies apart from them.  That doesn't mean they particularly care if organics live or die. 

That's the impression I got, anyway.

Modifié par iakus, 07 janvier 2011 - 05:53 .

[Triiumph]

iakus wrote...

Triiumph wrote...

I was sort of bummed out when I activated Legion to find out that the majority of geth are "good guys". i thought it was cool that there was a geth not trying to kill you but i would have rather the minority been geth who didn't want war with the rest of the galaxy rather than the majority. I liked that there was another enemy to the galaxy besides the reapers. Added depth to the storyline. Now were are pretty much slotted for everyone vs the reapers in ME3

I wouldn't call the True geth "good guys" really.  They're have more of an attitude of hostile indifference.  Remember, ships have been disappearing in geth space long before Sovereign gathered his geth army.  Geth in general simply don't care about organics and want to forge their own destinies apart from them.  That doesn't mean they particularly care if organics live or die.

thats true, good point. I am curious about the geth though and will probably import a shep into me3 with legion.

[Mecha Tengu]

yes

[Renegade133]

Geth arnt good or bad there just neutral they dont really care unless you threaten them

[didymos1120]

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

There is no reason to believe anything Legion is saying.

Sure, provided you completely ignore all of his deeds.  But whatever: enjoy your useless creds.

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

didymos1120 wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

There is no reason to believe anything Legion is saying.

Sure, provided you completely ignore all of his deeds.  But whatever: enjoy your useless creds.

His deeds? What has he done?

1. Sniped some husks? His mission was to see what Cerberus and Shepard were up to. Shepard dying would not be advantageous for him.

2. Helped destroy the Reaper core? He was stuck in that Reaper as much as Shepard was. Also, his mission was reconnaissance, not assassination.

3. Destroyed a Geth base (if recruited)? This puts him deeper in cover and earns trust in the eyes of Shepard.

You admit your Shepard falls for it.

[Weskerr]

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

There is no reason to believe anything Legion is saying. All of our interaction throughout both games (except Legion) points to the fact that the Geth are completely hostile towards organic life. I'm not throwing that all away based on one mobile platform saying, "hey, we're not bad, really." Legion's words are the only thing that points to Geth desiring peace with organics. I find it far more likely that he was simply on an espionage mission and dupes the Shepard that doesn't sell him to Cerberus into thinking he's a buddy. I almost always sell Legion to Cerberus.

Your actions are then based on a false conclusion. There is no doubt that what Legion says to Shepard is true. There is nothing to indicate that he is lying, and the game itself says through Legion during his loyalty quest that the Geth are incapable of lying. You could argue that Legion is lying about that too, but there is absoulutely no implication, hint or explicit communication to the player in either Mass Effect game that what Legion says to Shepard about the Geth is false or deceitful.

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

Weskerr wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

There is no reason to believe anything Legion is saying. All of our interaction throughout both games (except Legion) points to the fact that the Geth are completely hostile towards organic life. I'm not throwing that all away based on one mobile platform saying, "hey, we're not bad, really." Legion's words are the only thing that points to Geth desiring peace with organics. I find it far more likely that he was simply on an espionage mission and dupes the Shepard that doesn't sell him to Cerberus into thinking he's a buddy. I almost always sell Legion to Cerberus.

Your actions are then based on a false conclusion. There is no doubt that what Legion says to Shepard is true. There is nothing to indicate that he is lying, and the game itself says through Legion during his loyalty quest that the Geth are incapable of lying. You could argue that Legion is lying about that too, but there is absoulutely no implication, hint or explicit communication to the player in either Mass Effect game that what Legion says to Shepard about the Geth is false or deceitful.

What indicates that Legion is lying? All of organic interaction with Geth have been hostile in the ME universe (save Saren).

Saying that the Geth cannot lie because Legion says so does no credit to your argument. The Geth are capable of deception. The Geth set multiple traps to catch Shepard in ME1.

So, if a member of a synthetic race that has only ever tried to kill you approaches you and says it wants to be friends, you will trust it until that specific platform gives you a reason not to believe it? I would hope the "savior of the universe" would exercise a little more discretion than that.

[Schneidend]

If all geth were hostile, I would imagine they'd attack us with a lot more than 5% of their population.

[Nightwriter]

Actually, the impression I got from the pre-release marketing was that Legion was part of a minority group which had branched off from the major geth body.

When I played the game it turned out to be the opposite, but that's kewl too.

[jedishephard]

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

There is no reason to believe anything Legion is saying.

Sure, provided you completely ignore all of his deeds.  But whatever: enjoy your useless creds.

His deeds? What has he done?

1. Sniped some husks? His mission was to see what Cerberus and Shepard were up to. Shepard dying would not be advantageous for him.

2. Helped destroy the Reaper core? He was stuck in that Reaper as much as Shepard was. Also, his mission was reconnaissance, not assassination.

3. Destroyed a Geth base (if recruited)? This puts him deeper in cover and earns trust in the eyes of Shepard.

You admit your Shepard falls for it.

the flaw in your reasoning is emotional response...machines have no emotional responses...so therefore there is no reason that a unique geth would lie...they are perfectly happy with what they have they just want to live in peace thats all

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

Schneidend wrote...

If all geth were hostile, I would imagine they'd attack us with a lot more than 5% of their population.

/facepalm

You realize you get that 5% number from Legion, right?

[Schneidend]

Codex, too.



It's a canon fact. Get over it.

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

jedishephard wrote...

the flaw in your reasoning is emotional response...machines have no emotional responses...so therefore there is no reason that a unique geth would lie...they are perfectly happy with what they have they just want to live in peace thats all

1. Not all violence is a result of emotion. It can also be based on reason.

2. Deception is not necessarily the result of emotions. Deception can be used to gain a tactical advantage over one's enemies. It is a simple concept, and we have no reason to believe the Geth are not capable of it. The Geth do use deception in ME1.

3. There is no reason to believe Legion is unique.

4. All of the hard evidence we have is that the Geth DON'T want to live in peace. Did you play ME1?

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

Schneidend wrote...

Codex, too.

It's a canon fact. Get over it.

My Shepard doesn't have a codex. Also, the codex entry is based on Legion's testimony alone.

[Schneidend]

Uh, yeah, your Shepard totally does have a codex. That's why you have a codex. The Codex is an in-character part of the universe. It probably comes standard with your omni-tool.



Oh, wait, let me guess, your Shepard doesn't have an omni-tool, either.

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

Schneidend wrote...

Uh, yeah, your Shepard totally does have a codex. That's why you have a codex. The Codex is an in-character part of the universe. It probably comes standard with your omni-tool.

Oh, wait, let me guess, your Shepard doesn't have an omni-tool, either.

Of course Shepard has some sort of information cache, but he does not have an electronic source of omniscient information. The codex that Shepard has cannot confirm Legion's story, just record it. Therefore it gives no credence to Legion's 5% number.

[marshalleck]

I trusted Legion, but I admit it was from a metagaming perspective. I think the way they handled Legion's introduction and recruitment was really sloppy. Shepard basically flips the switch and is all "okay, now I'm trusting you. Don't blow up the ship and we'll be BFF!!" It felt like lazy writing.



I am sure the impression would have been different had Legion been introduced according to the original plan, which was him mysteriously stalking Shepard throughout the game culminating in acquiring him on the Reaper, which would have given Shepard a much more reasonable justification for wanting to keep Legion on board the Normandy and find out what it wants.

[Schneidend]

The number of geth outside the Veil is still low given their species has had 300 years to "reproduce" runtimes and build more platforms, even if Legion can't be trusted. Anderson himself tells you the geth are mostly on the ropes. With most action against the geth being simple mop-up operations, the Alliance and other defense forces would have compiled reasonably accurate estimations of the heretics' numbers by now.



And your skepticism doesn't explain Legion's seemingly bizarre actions like helping you obtain the IFF, shooting Shepard's enemies instead of him, fighting against other geth, not making any attempts to hack the Normandy II, not broadcasting the Normandy's position on the extranet to other geth when given the chance to do so, donating money to an Eden Prime charity...The list goes on.



He's either honest, or a liar. And, if he's a liar, he's got some kind of ridiculous Xanatos Roulette going that doesn't even make sense. That doesn't sound like Bioware writing to me.

[Eber]

Schneidend wrote...

Uh, yeah, your Shepard totally does have a codex. That's why you have a codex. The Codex is an in-character part of the universe. It probably comes standard with your omni-tool.

Oh, wait, let me guess, your Shepard doesn't have an omni-tool, either.

I know who has an omni-tool, Tali. I also know what Legion did to it behind everyone's back.

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

Schneidend wrote...

The number of geth outside the Veil is still low given their species has had 300 years to "reproduce" runtimes and build more platforms, even if Legion can't be trusted. Anderson himself tells you the geth are mostly on the ropes. With most action against the geth being simple mop-up operations, the Alliance and other defense forces would have compiled reasonably accurate estimations of the heretics' numbers by now.

We can only speculate on the true strength of the Geth. The galaxy is too big a place to have any idea how many Geth are out there.

And your skepticism doesn't explain Legion's seemingly bizarre actions like helping you obtain the IFF, shooting Shepard's enemies instead of him, fighting against other geth, not making any attempts to hack the Normandy II, not broadcasting the Normandy's position on the extranet to other geth when given the chance to do so, donating money to an Eden Prime charity...The list goes on.

Yes, it does. I explained this in a post earlier. These actions were necessary to get undercover with Shepard.

He's either honest, or a liar. And, if he's a liar, he's got some kind of ridiculous Xanatos Roulette going that doesn't even make sense. That doesn't sound like Bioware writing to me.

It's an espionage mission. I fail to see why the information he could get would not be valuable to the Geth.

Also, from a non-player story standpoint, of course Legion is telling the truth. Bioware wouldn't introduce the character and introduce new (possible) information about the Geth to make it all a lie. It just makes zero sense that Shepard should trust Legion or believe anything he says on this supposed heretic-true Geth split.