106 réponses à ce sujet

[FlintlockJazz]

V-rex wrote...

FlintlockJazz wrote...
 SNIP

You know what? It's almost midnight where I am right now, so currently, I am not capable, nor in the mood to continue this conversation. Consider this a victory if you want, or a winner by default because I'm ducking out but really I don't care much anyway.

At best all we are left with is neither side being able to claim the moral high ground, instead both sides are dicks to an absolutley surgically precisely equal degree. The Quarians are dicks for starting the war and deciding genocide was the right decision in dealing with a newly formed fledgling sentient race. The Geth are dicks for retaliating in such an extreme measure, reducing an entire planets population to under 20 million.
The Quarians are dicks for continuing a plan to wage war and one in particular for hatching plans to turn the Geth back into mindless machines. The Geth are dicks for retreating from Council space and responding to most, if not all, responses from organics with fear and hostility.

Neither side owns the righteous or justified side, and if both could just get over themselves then the galaxy would be a better place. There, my whole opinion on this whole matter summarized. No evil, no good, just a whole lot of dickishness.

Anywho, whatever. I'm off to bed now, so yes I apologize if I caused any offence. Not my intent. Goodnight.

Nah, I wasn't arguing with you to win, I just find passionate debate fun as it helps me to evaluate my own opinions and see why I think what I do when confronted about them, while learning why others believe what they do.  Neither of us are right, I just find that by confronting someone about their opinions often reveals why they think the way they do while forcing me to reassess my own beliefs.  Oh, and it appears that we are in agreement that both sides were dicks in the quarians-geth war, we just seemed to be coming at it from different angles.

It's only the afternoon here (still at work, should be working ) so sorry for keeping you up, and you didn't offend me, I'm a wanker anyway so can't be offended.  Goodnight!

[Noctifer3]

For my Paragon (sort of) I am taking the Doctor Who approach. At this point the Geth know the good captain has taken out just about every single power that threatened him, annoyed him, or allowed him to win brownie points with random crew-member he just met. Even if they were spying initially, I'm after thinking that now they'd rather be BFFs or give the good captain other amusing things to chase - things that are not them. At least until he dies safely of old age.

[Jonner]

I wonder if the collectors become "good guys" also in ME3. The geth were portrayed as not having much free will in ME1. The collector ant general seem to be pocessed in ME2. Maybe you will meet reminants of the collectors in ME3 that have regained some free will and that you can recruit to fight the reapers as revenge for their own demise. Seems a waste to not have collectors in ME3 since they have already desinged and programmed their models. Since they have already spent time on their design they probably will be featured in ME3. Hopefully with more depth then just cannon fodder. Could be an interesting storyline. Revenge of the Protheans.

Modifié par Jonner, 08 janvier 2011 - 06:34 .

[Googlesaurus]

When you're facing an enemy that intends to annihilate all spacefaring life in the galaxy, it gets pretty black and white. The geth don't care much about organics, but they care even less about being wiped out of existence.

[didymos1120]

Jonner wrote...

I wonder if the collectors become "good guys" also in ME3.

Probably not, considering they're all dead.  And yes: "remants".  But there aren't any as far as ME2 is concerned.  It was made pretty clear in the game that they all lived on that base, and that everyone was home when Shep came calling.

[ODST 5723]

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

There is no reason to believe anything Legion is saying.

Sure, provided you completely ignore all of his deeds.  But whatever: enjoy your useless creds.

His deeds? What has he done?

1. Sniped some husks? His mission was to see what Cerberus and Shepard were up to. Shepard dying would not be advantageous for him.

2. Helped destroy the Reaper core? He was stuck in that Reaper as much as Shepard was. Also, his mission was reconnaissance, not assassination.

3. Destroyed a Geth base (if recruited)? This puts him deeper in cover and earns trust in the eyes of Shepard.

You admit your Shepard falls for it.

Let's be honest.  Words or deeds, your position is just as flawed as his.  Why? Because both hinge on whether or not Legion's words and deeds can be taken at face value without any idea of what is or isn't true. 

You've got nothing that fully proves that Legion was sent to do recon on Cerberus or that it knew before the IFF mission that Shepard was still alive.  You've got nothing to show that a dead Shepard wouldn't be advantageous to Legion or the "true geth."  You've got nothing to show that he was actually on a recon mission or an assasination mission.  And truthfully, Shepard is the one that makes the decision that either destroys the base or send out the signal w/ the virus, not Legion. 

You're making assumptions based on what you want to hear and want to believe.  And you can't take it at it's word when you want to and in the same argument tell others they can't without undercutting your own argument which utilizes some of those words and assumes facts not in evidence.

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

ODST 5723 wrote...

Let's be honest.  Words or deeds, your position is just as flawed as his.  Why? Because both hinge on whether or not Legion's words and deeds can be taken at face value without any idea of what is or isn't true. 

You've got nothing that fully proves that Legion was sent to do recon on Cerberus or that it knew before the IFF mission that Shepard was still alive.  You've got nothing to show that a dead Shepard wouldn't be advantageous to Legion or the "true geth."  You've got nothing to show that he was actually on a recon mission or an assasination mission.  And truthfully, Shepard is the one that makes the decision that either destroys the base or send out the signal w/ the virus, not Legion. 

You're making assumptions based on what you want to hear and want to believe.  And you can't take it at it's word when you want to and in the same argument tell others they can't without undercutting your own argument which utilizes some of those words and assumes facts not in evidence.

My position is the one that actually has support. When determining Legion's credibility, nothing he says or does can be used as evidence of whether or not to trust him. Therefore, we must look elsewhere. Well, in EVERY context both recorded and witnessed in-game, the Geth have been hostile towards organics (except the ones working for Sovereign). I have 300 years of Geth hostility towards organics as evidence that I should not trust Legion.

Modifié par Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams, 08 janvier 2011 - 04:09 .

[Thompson family]

Re: OP



I'll take better odds of survival to "added depth to the storyline" every time.

[jbblue05]

I always activate Legion.



I just wish you can deactivate him after Suicide mission or if you find him untrustworthy and want to deactivate him again shortly after activating him.



I don't trust Legion or the "true geth". You know killing billions of organics including women and children shows you how cold and heartless the Geth are. I don't believe everything Legion tells me because he has no reason to tell you the truth. Legion is like an ambassador of the Geth he's not going to cast the Geth in a bad light.



My Shepard plans to blow all the Geth to hell once the Reapers are defeated. .

[Vaenier]

jbblue05 wrote...

My Shepard plans to blow all the Geth to hell once the Reapers are defeated. .

Nothing like good old racism to brighten up ones day.

[kmcd5722]

I trust em.

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

Vaenier wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

My Shepard plans to blow all the Geth to hell once the Reapers are defeated. .

Nothing like good old racism to brighten up ones day.

Well, it could be argued that synthetics are not actually a race.

[jbblue05]

Vaenier wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

My Shepard plans to blow all the Geth to hell once the Reapers are defeated. .

Nothing like good old racism to brighten up ones day.

Its no different then throwing your toaster or T.V. in the trash

Sort of.

[izmirtheastarach]

Looking forward to brokering peace between the Geth and the Quarians.

[jbblue05]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Looking forward to brokering peace between the Geth and the Quarians.

The only peace that makes sense is if the Quarians colonize far away from Geth Space.

I don't think the Quarians like the idea of being in the middle of Geth Space surrounded by Geth on all sides.

[izmirtheastarach]

The Geth having been keeping the Quarian homeworld for them. They don't live on it. I want to completely reconcile them. Give them back the homeworld. Admiral Korris is an indication that there are at least some Quarians who would support the idea.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

If it was not for Legion on the Derelict Reaper, Shep would be dead. Shep would be trapped as endless husks attack because Legion was not there to open the core door. Also Legion had plenty of opportunity to snipe Shep, and yet instead shot the husks around her. It was blatantly obvious to anyone with half a brain it was not hostile to Shep. That is why its smart to turn it on. Trusting it is another matter.

If Legion would try to snip Shepard, does anyone here have a doubt that he'd be just another enemy sniper who'd get killed with Shepard's inevitability? First shot stopped by barriers, Shepard gets to cover, battle begins? An entire section, even, in which Shepard has to fight husks and avoid the mysterious sniper fire throughout the level?

Shepard trumps Legion, same as Shepard trumps everyone. The universe rolls around this fact.

If Legion weren't there, Shepard would end up killing all the husks in the area and then omnitool hacking/cutscene text expert/EDI/Cerberus override code the Cerberus barriers down and continue with his mission.

So bascially the only reason to trust Legion is metagaming. And the only reason to distrust him is also metagaming?

[Dean_the_Young]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

If it was not for Legion on the Derelict Reaper, Shep would be dead. Shep would be trapped as endless husks attack because Legion was not there to open the core door. Also Legion had plenty of opportunity to snipe Shep, and yet instead shot the husks around her. It was blatantly obvious to anyone with half a brain it was not hostile to Shep. That is why its smart to turn it on. Trusting it is another matter.

If Legion would try to snip Shepard, does anyone here have a doubt that he'd be just another enemy sniper who'd get killed with Shepard's inevitability? First shot stopped by barriers, Shepard gets to cover, battle begins? An entire section, even, in which Shepard has to fight husks and avoid the mysterious sniper fire throughout the level?

Shepard trumps Legion, same as Shepard trumps everyone. The universe rolls around this fact.

If Legion weren't there, Shepard would end up killing all the husks in the area and then omnitool hacking/cutscene text expert/EDI/Cerberus override code the Cerberus barriers down and continue with his mission.

So bascially the only reason to trust Legion is metagaming. And the only reason to distrust him is also metagaming?

The reason to trust Legion is metagaming.

The reason to distrust him is a lack of reason to trust him without metagaming.

[ISpeakTheTruth]

Legion has given us no reason not to trust him. If he had wanted to kill Shepard there were a hundred different times to try it and he never did. The Codex backs up what he says and he's never been hostile towards Shepard or anyone else on the team.



If you still don't trust him after all of this than the reason is racism. Codex says he's telling the trught, there's been nothing that has lead any fair minded observer to not believe him. If after everything you still don't believe him than I'd say you're paranoid.



It's not like Garrus... we all know that he's part of a secret Turian agency that was set up to kill Shepard when the time is right. Every since the First Contact war the Turians knew the best way to hurt humanity is to hurt its first Spectre so they set up Garrus to earn Shepards trust and then when everything was right kill him. Yep because he's never given me any reason to believe he isn't lol

[Dean_the_Young]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

If you still don't trust him after all of this than the reason is racism.l

The Race Card has been played! 

[ISpeakTheTruth]

It is accurate.

Examples:
Legion saves Shepard's life - Doesn't matter Legion is a Geth he can't be trusted.
The Codex supports everything he says - Legion is a Geth if the Codex backs him up the Codex is wrong.
Legion brings you to the Heritic base to destroy/reprogram them - Legion is a Geth that base was probably some kind of decoy.
Legion never attempts to harm Shepard - Legion is a Geth they are tricky when they want to kill you.
Legion shows no hostility towards anyone even Tali who had a gun to his face - Legion is a Geth his evil would have melted the bullet before it hit him.
Legion could have sabatoged the SM but he didn't because he wants Shepard to succeed - Legion is a Geth the Reapers obviously wanted Shepard to take/destroy the Collector Base. The entire story of ME2 was all a secret plan so Shepard would trust the evil Geth Legion.

What else would it be called when no matter what evidence is presented that the knee jerk reaction is that Legion is a Geth = He's an evil homicidal killer?

Modifié par ISpeakTheTruth, 09 janvier 2011 - 12:13 .

[Vaenier]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

It's not like Garrus... we all know that he's part of a secret Turian agency that was set up to kill Shepard when the time is right. Every since the First Contact war the Turians knew the best way to hurt humanity is to hurt its first Spectre so they set up Garrus to earn Shepards trust and then when everything was right kill him. Yep because he's never given me any reason to believe he isn't lol

Curses, you have foiled the master plan of the Reapers! He was the best undercover there ever was, he even died just so he could come back later as a zombie to finish the job.

[Dean_the_Young]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

It is accurate.

Examples:
Legion saves Shepard's life - Doesn't matter Legion is a Geth he can't be trusted.

And there are lots of reasons why people would save people for other purposes. Nor is the extent to which Shepard's life was about to end non-disputable: plenty of husks can get within range of Shepard without being fatal.

The Codex supports everything he says - Legion is a Geth if the Codex backs him up the Codex is wrong.

The Codes is an in-universe encyclopedia of what is publicly believed. It isn't omniscient, and isn't always accurate, nor is it necessarily an in-universe cannonity from a roleplaying perceptive. When the cause of concern is that all information of the Heretics/True Geth comes from one source, repitions of that one source do not validate that the source itself is honest.

Legion brings you to the Heritic base to destroy/reprogram them - Legion is a Geth that base was probably some kind of decoy.

The only person who's word we have that it's a Heretic base is Legion. If you are suspicous of Legion as a Geth-actor, the Heretic Base ranges from no-loss (because there was no real split) to minor loss (station in the middle of nowhere compared to the planet itself), and in exchange convincing Shepard of trustworthyness.

Legion never attempts to harm Shepard - Legion is a Geth they are tricky when they want to kill you.

Shepard isn't the biggest factor to consider. The Reapers are interested in Shepard, but there are far greater means to disable organic efforts against the Reapers than killing Shepard himself.

Legion shows no hostility towards anyone even Tali who had a gun to his face - Legion is a Geth his evil would have melted the bullet before it hit him.

And how does this disprove the fear that he's acting?

An actor wouldn't demonstrate hostility, even at a gun to itself. Geth don't even fear pain. Why would it break cover?

What else would it be called when no matter what evidence is presented that the knee jerk reaction is that Legion is a Geth = He's an evil homicidal killer?

When your evidence doesn't disprove a suspicion? 

It remains suspicion.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 09 janvier 2011 - 12:22 .

[DaBigDragon]

I think it's more interesting the way it is in my opinion. I'm hoping that dyson sphere Legion said they were bulding helps in some way in ME3. Maybe joins your fleet?