81 réponses à ce sujet

[Uszi]

redzin wrote...

Uszi wrote...
The system is super, super easy to fix:
Do not make the difficulty of the persuasions increase relative to total available paragon/renegade points. Make them have set difficulties, i.e. if I am 80% Renegade I will always successfully talk Miranda and Jack down.

That wouldn't fix the problem entirely; it would still encourage people to polarize themselves heavily. A fix is only a fix if it would allow people to choose freely when faced with seperate, unrelated choices.

Well, true.  But, It would fix the system's most agregious problem.
As people have said though, it's not terribly difficult to achieve high scores in both persuasions.

Also, if Bioware wants to argue that you *should* be encourage to polarize, then I still feel like an aggregate point check vs available point check would better satisfy both party's then the current system.

Actually I find it very interesting that there *is* mixed opinion on things:  I found 14 threads on the issue (some super old, locked, etc) but a lot of people seemed to like the ME2 system better.  Which is confusing for me, personally.

redzin wrote...

General_Mayhem wrote...

My
tentative suggestion is to make all dialogue options available at all
times. I don't think this would really take anything from the game. I
never felt a sense of accomplishment from being able to choose a
dialogue option because I had a high paragon score or had poured points
into a skill.

I absolutely agree with this.

And this also remains the most elegant solution, imo.

Modifié par Uszi, 08 janvier 2011 - 09:45 .

[Evil Johnny 666]

General_Mayhem wrote...

I'm honestly from removing persuasion skills and morality bars from your ability to choose dialog options in this game.

When I played the first Mass Effect, I poured points into both charm and intimidate simply because I wanted to always have all the options available to me. This was a stupid way to play and it severely weakened my character. I hated the persuasion skill system as it forced me into a specific role just as much as ME2 did, by making my select one skill and run with it if I wanted to feel like I was building and even semi-viable character.

ME2 I haven't had as many problems with, I try to make the choices I would and for the most part this makes me pretty solidly paragon, but it still bothers me that when I make a renegade choice I feel like I'm missing out on something. It also drives me nuts when I want to intimidate some character I hate and the option is grayed out.

My tentative suggestion is to make all dialogue options available at all times. I don't think this would really take anything from the game. I never felt a sense of accomplishment from being able to choose a dialogue option because I had a high paragon score or had poured points into a skill. It would make the game a lot more gratifying to be able to make the choices I wanted, when I wanted, without constraints.

The other option I would consider would be not high-lighting charm and intimidate choices. It makes it easier, sure, but the conversation system could be more interesting if you actually had to listen and react with choices that made sense and were persuasive, this could bring a real element of triumph and accomplishment into the ME3 conversation system.

I'm sure there's problems with it, but that's my basic suggestion. Let me be who I wanna be when I wanna be Bioware. Let me be kind to wounded workers and mean to manipulating criminals.

You didn't need persuasion skills AT ALL to have a viable character. I don't know from where you're taking this. It's your problem if you want all options, you have to live with the consequences, that is role-playing.




Giving all the options isn't better, it makes you a jack of all trades no matter what. That's limiting role playing. I say give us more persuasion skills, well dialogue skills. Some options would only be reachable via one, while others could be reachable with any, or certain dialogue skills, sometimes it would work out differently depending on your best dialogue skills. Make something deep and complex, don't take everything out like ME2 did, that's just restricting roleplay further. Hey, ME2's skills weren't even real skills, most of the time they were just action game abilities.

Modifié par Evil Johnny 666, 08 janvier 2011 - 10:09 .

[redzin]

Uszi wrote...

redzin wrote...

Uszi wrote...
The system is super, super easy to fix:
Do not make the difficulty of the persuasions increase relative to total available paragon/renegade points. Make them have set difficulties, i.e. if I am 80% Renegade I will always successfully talk Miranda and Jack down.

That wouldn't fix the problem entirely; it would still encourage people to polarize themselves heavily. A fix is only a fix if it would allow people to choose freely when faced with seperate, unrelated choices.

Well, true.  But, It would fix the system's most agregious problem.
As people have said though, it's not terribly difficult to achieve high scores in both persuasions.

Also, if Bioware wants to argue that you *should* be encourage to polarize, then I still feel like an aggregate point check vs available point check would better satisfy both party's then the current system.

Actually I find it very interesting that there *is* mixed opinion on things:  I found 14 threads on the issue (some super old, locked, etc) but a lot of people seemed to like the ME2 system better.  Which is confusing for me, personally.

I agree that an aggregate point check system would be more tolerable.

Indeed, it's strange that there actually is differing opinions on this matter, at least when people completely defend the ME2 system. My guess is that most people who argue that the ME2 system is good simply don't understand the flaws, or they just don't care about roleplaying (in which case they should just go back to Modern Warfare imo ;P).

The thing about the ME2 system is that it *seems* to make sense, because it feels more streamlined and fluid than the ME1 system. The more you play with it, the more obvious the flaws get though, especially if you like roleplaying.

Modifié par redzin, 08 janvier 2011 - 10:14 .

[Sashimi_taco]

The reason they did it this way was because you needed to be able to persuade your team mates at any point in the game. So if you did the miranda jack thing early in the game you don't have to worry about not having enough points to persuade. It just goes off of the ratio for paragon/ renegade.

[Uszi]

Sashimi_taco wrote...

The reason they did it this way was because you needed to be able to persuade your team mates at any point in the game. So if you did the miranda jack thing early in the game you don't have to worry about not having enough points to persuade.

This is probably true.

It just goes off of the ratio for paragon/ renegade.

This is defintiely false.

And this is just another reason why the current ME2 system has failed.  The majority of players have no idea how it works.

Modifié par Uszi, 08 janvier 2011 - 11:03 .

[Big stupid jellyfish]

Uszi wrote...

It just goes off of the ratio for paragon/ renegade.

This is defintiely false.

And this is just another reason why the current ME2 system has failed.  The majority of players have no idea how it works.

This. The principle of the system is hardly obvious.

[hamtyl07]

i really dont see the big deal with it, this system does not really bother me but thats just my opinion on the matter