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[Legion-001]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Legion-001 wrote...

Another good idea would be if the PC could willingly allow demonic possession and gains the ability to use some very evil and destructive magics (like corrupting or possessing others).

Willingly allowing demonic possession would lead to either your entire personality being consumed, or ping-ponging between bouts of powerlessness where you were yourself and times when the demon was in full-control.

Oh... Isn't that like saying Flemeth is never in control of herself?

Maria Caliban wrote...

Legion-001 wrote...
...never once do you get to be the master of evil(being corrupted by a demon and becoming a leader of the blight)..

You just tap the Esc key whenever an NPC talks, don’t you? Being corrupted by a demon would not in any way lead to you becoming the leader of the blight.

I didn't say THE leader, I said A leader... As in demonic domination of evil creatures and leading an army against good.

[Taleroth]

Vilegrim wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

How can people call it bittersweet? There's absolutely nothing sweet about it, it's just bitter.

Bittersweet would be if Morrigan promised to see the PC again, someday eventually. Bittersweet would be if they both died and met again in the Fade. Bittersweet would be anything which ends relatively happily, but in a unideal way. There's nothing happy to this ending, it's just senseless "good bye, don't try to find me."

the follow up, she has to do what she does, she regets it, she thinks of you, perfect star crossed lovers., and the possiblity of finding her is left open ofc, and your child.

It's hard to claim "she has to do what she does."  Or that it being left open is anything of a point to the possibility of a happy resolution.

Because it's entirely senseless.  There's no real justification, there's not even a token justification for her leaving except that she has to for some undescribed reasoning.  There's no forseeable justification for it.  None.  My character was a Blood Mage far more powerful than Morrigan who killed people just to get on her good side.  If he couldn't help, he could have been at least told why.  They could have worked out a plan or whatever or at least come to an understanding.  But none of that.

It's only "star crossed" if fate or circumstance keeps people apart.  But that's not what's going on here, it's not circumstance keeping them apart.  It is Morrigan herself.  Hell, she would have left anyway even without the child.

Modifié par Taleroth, 13 novembre 2009 - 04:43 .

[Maria Caliban]

Dennis Carpenter wrote...

Ok here is my viewpoint and I havent finished the game yet so bear with me if something I think cant possibly happen (from the mind of a long time DM) The whole reason for getting pregnant is to become immortal!!!!!!! remember she has all of Flemeths books and knows how she stayed alive for so long, if Morrigan can duplicate the process with a child that is somehow part God as she puts it ( or something to that effect) Just how powerful can she become. Also If you killed Flemeth than there is really no one to stop her..........Of course this is all speculation in the demented mind of a long time DM. What do you all think?

I think Morrigan is selfish and cruel. I don't think she's to the point that should could raise a child just to use and kill him or her.

[Jaredh]

arolas6622 wrote...

 I don't know who thought of this ending when making the game, they must have been going through a bad break up. but this ending is BY FAR the worst romance ending i have ever come across. 

IMO I thought it was a load of crap.  now i know romances are what ppl look for in a game, but to me its a really big part in forming character and a big part of an rpg. 

after i found out that all that crap i went through to get her romantic with my character was for nothing i felt no intentions on finishing on that character, i went thru the last bit with cheats.. it didnt even say at the end with all the writing that he had found her. 

I hope for the love of god that the other romance line is better. 

LEARN to romance better bioware.

It's funny because most of the people think that it's a very sad ending but one of the best for the game.
It's dark fantasy a happy ending is not really what is important here.
And who says it was for nothing? Her stories continues but the game is over no matter how it ends.
So maybe you should overthink your first reaction because it's about telling a story and not to give players a virtual girlfriend. You just picked the one woman that is important for the story.

[Flamin Jesus]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Flamin Jesus wrote...

In all fairness though, both Uldred and Flemmeth seemed to be able to find a balance between full-on-demon mode and no-demon-at-all mode, though it stands to reason that their demons were just a little cleverer and simply managed to come across as somewhat human(e) for an extended amount of time.

Yeah. I don't think Uldred was Uldred anymore. I think he was just a pride demon using the memories and face of Uldred to let more demons enter the mortal realm.

I'm not sure what Flemeth is or was.

I seem to remember that both the legends as well as Morrigan claimed/suggested that she called a demon into her body, though of course that may be a lie.

I wonder if it's possible to compell a more benevolent spirit of the fade to inhabit a mortal body, I could think of some uses for that ability...

It's possible. We see that in the game.

Is that part of a companion quest for Wynne or something? Would sort of fit with the description of Spiritual Healers...

[Taleroth]

Flamin Jesus wrote...

I seem to remember that both the legends as well as Morrigan claimed/suggested that she called a demon into her body, though of course that may be a lie.

Morrigan called her an "abomination," which is used in every other instance to refer to a Mage that is demon possessed.

However, Flemeth may not necessarilly be the possessed, but the possessor.

[Maria Caliban]

[quote]Legion-001 wrote...

Oh... Isn't that like saying Flemeth is never in control of herself?[/quote]

We have no idea what Flemeth is, and no idea if she's fully in control of herself. It's possible that the woman that was Flemeth died a long time ago.

[quote]Maria Caliban wrote...

[quote]Legion-001 wrote...
...never once do you get to be the master of evil(being corrupted by a demon and becoming a leader of the blight)..[/quote]

You just tap the Esc key whenever an NPC talks, don’t you? Being corrupted by a demon would not in any way lead to you becoming the leader of the blight.
[/quote]

I didn't say THE leader, I said A leader... As in demonic domination of evil creatures and leading an army against good.[/quote]

Being corrupted by a demon would in no way lead you to becoming *a* leader of the Blight. You could lead other abominaitons if the demon that possessed you was powerful enough, but why would a powerful demon be interested in letting you keep control of your mind? And if you managed through pure will-power to not let a demon take control of your mind, why would it give you power? Why would it stay in you? DA seems full of mages just begging to be possessed.

[Dennis Carpenter]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Dennis Carpenter wrote...

Ok here is my viewpoint and I havent finished the game yet so bear with me if something I think cant possibly happen (from the mind of a long time DM) The whole reason for getting pregnant is to become immortal!!!!!!! remember she has all of Flemeths books and knows how she stayed alive for so long, if Morrigan can duplicate the process with a child that is somehow part God as she puts it ( or something to that effect) Just how powerful can she become. Also If you killed Flemeth than there is really no one to stop her..........Of course this is all speculation in the demented mind of a long time DM. What do you all think?

I think Morrigan is selfish and cruel. I don't think she's to the point that should could raise a child just to use and kill him or her.

But then I dont think you believed she would do what she did if the ending is as sad as everyone seems to say, and if not for the reason of immortality then why? Maybe the taint from being around the blight or in and out of the fade has changed her.......Seems like a very interesting storyline the writers could pursue.

[Maria Caliban]

Flamin Jesus wrote...


Is that part of a companion quest for Wynne or something? Would sort of fit with the description of Spiritual Healers...

Yes. A spirit is in Wynne and keeping her alive.

[Taleroth]

Dennis Carpenter wrote...

But then I dont think you believed she would do what she did if the ending is as sad as everyone seems to say, and if not for the reason of immortality then why? Maybe the taint from being around the blight or in and out of the fade has changed her.......Seems like a very interesting storyline the writers could pursue.

My soe suspicion is that she's seeking to revive the Tevinter Pantheon.  Or create a new deity of the wilderness.  It gives "higher meaning" to what she's doing and isn't particularly bad.

[Legion-001]

Flemeth doesn't behave in the typical fashion for a demon given that demons(in DA:O) generally conform to certain behaviours namely rage, hunger, sloth, desire, pride... She also doesn't look like the typical abomination, while she could easily be shapeshifted, her attitude doesn't seem to be quite demonic.

Modifié par Legion-001, 13 novembre 2009 - 04:56 .

[Maria Caliban]

Dennis Carpenter wrote...



But then I dont think you believed she would do what she did if the ending is as sad as everyone seems to say, and if not for the reason of immortality then why?

Leaving the PC? That's not an evil act. That's certainly not 'creating a child just to murder and devour its power' evil.



I have no problem believing she would leave the PC. I assume that was the case long before I even played the game. The woman is not a romantic; she’s not interested in spending her life hanging around the hero of Ferelden. This is a woman who tells us that friends are useless and human relations only bring you down. It’s not shocking that the PC gets dumped in the end.

[Vilegrim]

pride maybe,

[Flamin Jesus]

Dennis Carpenter wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Dennis Carpenter wrote...

Ok here is my viewpoint and I havent finished the game yet so bear with me if something I think cant possibly happen (from the mind of a long time DM) The whole reason for getting pregnant is to become immortal!!!!!!! remember she has all of Flemeths books and knows how she stayed alive for so long, if Morrigan can duplicate the process with a child that is somehow part God as she puts it ( or something to that effect) Just how powerful can she become. Also If you killed Flemeth than there is really no one to stop her..........Of course this is all speculation in the demented mind of a long time DM. What do you all think?

I think Morrigan is selfish and cruel. I don't think she's to the point that should could raise a child just to use and kill him or her.

But then I dont think you believed she would do what she did if the ending is as sad as everyone seems to say, and if not for the reason of immortality then why? Maybe the taint from being around the blight or in and out of the fade has changed her.......Seems like a very interesting storyline the writers could pursue.

The short explanation she gives when you press her for more information makes a lot of sense for her character, it's basically something about using it as a basis for personal freedom and independence. Again, nobody doubts that she will manipulate the child to serve her ends, but destroying the soul by stealing its body, even IF that would be possible for her in its weakened state wouldn't give her the power of that soul, she would just take the possibly mutated body of a child, or small dragon, or whatever that thing will turn into.

[Dennis Carpenter]

@Taleroth....another nice option and quite possible...........but given the dark epic tragedy setting of DA:O I am opting for Immortality. Perhaps in any other game the goodness factor would kick in, but in DA:O the goodness has to be found or pulled out by the character and his/her interactions. Maybe you will get to confront your lover before she can do such a horrendous thing and either fight her or convince her not to. That seems more Dragon Age.

[Flamin Jesus]

Taleroth wrote...

Dennis Carpenter wrote...

But then I dont think you believed she would do what she did if the ending is as sad as everyone seems to say, and if not for the reason of immortality then why? Maybe the taint from being around the blight or in and out of the fade has changed her.......Seems like a very interesting storyline the writers could pursue.

My soe suspicion is that she's seeking to revive the Tevinter Pantheon.  Or create a new deity of the wilderness.  It gives "higher meaning" to what she's doing and isn't particularly bad.

Yes, that's what I believe as well due to her description, with her as the god-mother and friendly advisor to the highly esteemed reawakened dragon of beauty.

[Ashimmu]

Taleroth wrote...

Vilegrim wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

How can people call it bittersweet? There's absolutely nothing sweet about it, it's just bitter.

Bittersweet would be if Morrigan promised to see the PC again, someday eventually. Bittersweet would be if they both died and met again in the Fade. Bittersweet would be anything which ends relatively happily, but in a unideal way. There's nothing happy to this ending, it's just senseless "good bye, don't try to find me."

the follow up, she has to do what she does, she regets it, she thinks of you, perfect star crossed lovers., and the possiblity of finding her is left open ofc, and your child.

Because it's entirely senseless.  There's no real justification, there's not even a token justification for her leaving except that she has to for some undescribed reasoning.  There's no forseeable justification for it.  None.  My character was a Blood Mage far more powerful than Morrigan who killed people just to get on her good side.  If he couldn't help, he could have been at least told why.  They could have worked out a plan or whatever or at least come to an understanding.  But none of that.

I agree. I feel left out, and that really bothers me.

[Flamin Jesus]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Flamin Jesus wrote...


Is that part of a companion quest for Wynne or something? Would sort of fit with the description of Spiritual Healers...

Yes. A spirit is in Wynne and keeping her alive.

I should take her with me more often, I want one of those too.

[Taleroth]

Legion-001 wrote...

Flemeth doesn't behave in the typical fashion for a demon given that demons(in DA:O) generally conform to certain behaviours namely rage, hunger, sloth, desire, pride... She also doesn't look like the typical abomination, while she could easily be shapeshifted, her attitude doesn't seem to be quite demonic.

Did we ever see a Pride demon?  There's also the unmentioned demons of Envy and Greed, since there's a certained deadly sins motif.

[Dennis Carpenter]

@ Maria            I have no problem believing she would leave the PC. I assume that was
the case long before I even played the game. The woman is not a
romantic; she’s not interested in spending her life hanging around the
hero of Ferelden. This is a woman who tells us that friends are useless
and human relations only bring you down. It’s not shocking that the PC
gets dumped in the end.

If she believes friends are useless and human relations only bring you down then why be saddled with a pregnancy and its responsibilities. It  would seem to me she would just sleep with you and be gone, There is an ulterior motive and looks like we will have to wait and see..........I jsut hope Bioware does not screw this up like the NWN2 and comeback with something not even relating to the continuing storylines here. That would just suck.

[TobiTobsen]

Hey guys!

I just finished the game and have to say that Bioware, again, caught me off guard with the end of a romance.
First they killed Viconia and just mentioned it with one sentence in the Baldur's Gate 2 epilogue and now they punch me in the nuts with THAT ending off the Morrigan romance.

It took me 60 hours to see a glimpse of passion in her and the small possibilty of her finally returning the feelings, after all that "I have needs, you have needs, perfect match" talking of her and then... boom!

"Nice knowing you, now come and impregnate me. If you've done that, you can't die but you will never see me or the child again"

Of course i rejected her and then it get's even worse. I mean she asks you if you would persuade Alistair then.

WTF!

Your MC's.... uhm... "girlfriend" asks him if he would persuade the MC's best friend (who doesn't even like her) to impregnate her.
That's just wrong.

In the end I sacrificed myself out of grief...

I wasn't expecting something like "...and they lived happily ever after." but that was just cruel.
But i'm not sure if the girls are better off than we are... I mean they have to persuade their boyfriend to sleep with the witch and impregnate her.

I will have to come to terms with that...

Modifié par TobiTobsen, 13 novembre 2009 - 05:13 .

[Legion-001]

Taleroth wrote...

Legion-001 wrote...

Flemeth doesn't behave in the typical fashion for a demon given that demons(in DA:O) generally conform to certain behaviours namely rage, hunger, sloth, desire, pride... She also doesn't look like the typical abomination, while she could easily be shapeshifted, her attitude doesn't seem to be quite demonic.

Did we ever see a Pride demon?  There's also the unmentioned demons of Envy and Greed, since there's a certained deadly sins motif.

Uldred is possessed by a pride demon.

[Maria Caliban]

There are no envy and greed demons, or gluttony.



We see two pride demons, three if you do the mage origin.

[Flamin Jesus]

Taleroth wrote...

Legion-001 wrote...

Flemeth doesn't behave in the typical fashion for a demon given that demons(in DA:O) generally conform to certain behaviours namely rage, hunger, sloth, desire, pride... She also doesn't look like the typical abomination, while she could easily be shapeshifted, her attitude doesn't seem to be quite demonic.

Did we ever see a Pride demon?  There's also the unmentioned demons of Envy and Greed, since there's a certained deadly sins motif.

I think they left them out so that their entire pandemonium wouldn't be a carbon-copy of christian mythology...

I suppose the demon that tests you at the beginning of the mage origin is a pride demon, though we never get a really good look at it, and then there's Uldred who seems driven by pride, perhaps desire, but I guess pride...

[Maria Caliban]

Dennis Carpenter wrote...

If she believes friends are useless and human relations only bring you down then why be saddled with a pregnancy and its responsibilities. It  would seem to me she would just sleep with you and be gone, There is an ulterior motive and looks like we will have to wait and see..........I jsut hope Bioware does not screw this up like the NWN2 and comeback with something not even relating to the continuing storylines here. That would just suck.

Because it will get her power or freedom. I'm not saying she's a good person, but she's not her mother. Morrigan isn't to the point where she'll kill her own child.