74 réponses à ce sujet

[IanPolaris]

jaikss wrote...

Yeah I wouldnt call any of the companions in DAO boring per say,but Wynne definetely goes to the top of the "urgh" list for me.Not only because of her character,but more because I felt like bioware was forcing the warden to talk a certain way to wynne more than to the other companions in the form of dialogue choices.

*still slightly grumbled about my maleficar not given the chance to point out the irony of the holier than thou Wynne turning out to be an abomination * .

Yeah, that always bothered me too.  Even if it would have caused a -100 (and autoattack) response, a PC Bloodmage should be able to point out her hypocrisy here (and many other places....such as Anerin for starts).

-Polaris

[errant_knight]

No. I didn't think any of the characters were uninteresting. Not in the slightest. The one I use the least would be Shale, not because she's uninteresting, but because the noise she makes when she walks is a tad annoying.

I liked Wynne, too. Quite a bit, actually, and more than many.

Modifié par errant_knight, 08 janvier 2011 - 03:28 .

[atunnei]

Personally I found Alistair to be the most uninteresting character. His story just didn't appeal to me at all. Meh

[sevalaricgirl]

I liked Lelianna and Morrigan and Sten and of course Alistair and Zev alot but yes, I did think that Lel was lying alot and she finally admits it when she says that she lied to you and that she'll be honest about Marjoline only. "Well in this at least" or something like that. Now she was talking to a warden who told her mother's good friend that she was drunk at the salon, lol, so it's not as if my warden can't tell. I usually don't take her with me since I play HN rogue and like to take Zev if I need another rogue. I find Wynne preachy but some of her comments to Alistair are cute, swaying hips, where babies come from, and the scratching. I usually select Alistair, Morrigan, and Zev or Sten to go with me. I like Morrigan a lot. She's very much like me IRL.  Just don't take her on the urn quest, lol.

Modifié par sevalaricgirl, 08 janvier 2011 - 03:57 .

[Caralampio]

I like Leliana as a character, but she totally sucks in fights. OTOH, the dog has virtually no personality, but he's one of the best fighters... Very resilient. I've always thought that he should also have a personal quest, an interesting dream in the fade, and the Guardian should have something to tell him about his past... "Do you feel that you failed your previous owner at Ostagar?" *Whines mournfully* 

I had my own like/dislike list when I started playing,  I loved Alistair, Wynne, Leliana and the Dog, and I hated Sten, Morrigan, Zevran and Shale. But now I've been doing it so much that all of them are family. I like them all. 

Modifié par Caralampio, 08 janvier 2011 - 05:21 .

[DPSSOC]

ZeRoToXiN wrote...
Are you kidding me? Have you payed attention while playing the game?

 
No I'm not and while I'm sure I did pay attention it's entirely possible I skipped out for a few minutes.

ZeRoToXiN wrote...
No inner conflict? That appears in several conversations, most notably after her sidequest but also in a few other ones.

 
I remember one, after the sidequest which I suppose you could consider 2 though really it's just 2 parts of one conversation being padded out.  Aside from that there were the shoes, her mother, life in the Chantry, lying about why she came to Fereldan, telling the truth about why she came to Fereldan, and her mentioning that my Dalish was not a foaming at the mouth, baby killing savage that she was surprised, Maker knows why, I took offense to.

Even those conversations that touch on her past aren't indications of inner conflict, she's simply stating the facts like reading off a grocery list.

ZeRoToXiN wrote...
There are many connections to her old bard life, like her mentioning things being "games" a few times. I think you just havent been paying attention to her much.

It's possible, as I said the voice grates and French is one of those accents I just can't stand.  Rather listen to rusty nails on a chalkboard.  So it's possible that while going though the motions of having a conversation with her I just kind of tuned out for the sake of not throwing my controller through my TV.

And before you ask I can't just mute the TV then I just hear her voice in my head.

ZeRoToXiN wrote...
Leliana's Song adds a lot to her character and history, but even without playing that, there's still a lot to her and a lot to find interesting.

I played LS and I'd have to disagree but there's a lot of the evil accent in that DLC so it's possible I once again stepped out for the duration.

The Water God wrote...
Yes this post confuses me. Mostly the part:

she's been through all this stuff and the only things that seemed to have stuck are a love of shoes and stories. There's no old habits from her bard life creeping up, no conflict between who she was and who she is now

You popped the Cd into the disc tray yes?

Yes either that or I have an amazing imagination and/or a gas leak.

Though I am starting to wonder, could you bring up something specific I've apparently missed?

Modifié par DPSSOC, 08 janvier 2011 - 07:43 .

[ZeRoToXiN]

@DPSSOC

The most obvious examples of her inner conflict are when Marjolaine says she is the same as her, but Leli is trying to fight it and doesn't want to see herself as being like Marjolaine. This occurs afteer the market part of LS if you humiliate the guard captain fully (there's even a retrospect codex where mentions this concern I think), at the end of LS when she talks to Marjolaine and even in her outro, when she mentions about not knowing what ending suits her and about being able to choose who you are. One codex in LS mentions, "she [Marjolaine] was everything I wanted to be." You can see how this changes when you confront Marjolaine and talk to her after in the camp.

Another interesting thing about her past life is her dialogue with Alistair about using seduction on her targets, and then you can confront her about this too. She seems ok with it, not seeing it as being "particularly villanous", she's justifying it even though she's changed, she calls it a "game." Maybe that goes against my point, but you can see this as her coming trying to come to terms with what she had done in the past. In her past life, things were like a game, sowing chaos was fun, but after her change she's a bit more serious about certain matters, more respectful and thoughtful. She wants to leave her past life behind her and is struggling with it - how she ultimately ends up dealing with it depends on you dialogues and whether you harden her or not.

So a lot of that is based on what you learn from LS. But I found her character to me really interesting before I had played LS. If anything, there was a time where I thought that Bioware tried to put too much different things into her character to try to make her interesting and they overdid it and her character was just all over the place, but after finishing the game and LS I don't think that anymore.

I can understand if you hate her accent, I eventually grew to like it, and despite all there is to her you still don't like her character. It's another thing if you totally miss out on some of the details that help make her interesting.

[ZeRoToXiN]

The Water God wrote...

Yeah dude umm looking at your posts, alot of your knowledge seems like it came from a poorly written Wiki and you have yet to open the case.

I can tell you've never heard of hardening/softening companions, one of the many things that make Leliana's dialouge unique.

Leliana's entire personality and some dialouge are changed if you choose the right dialouge options after the Marjolaine quest. At which point she decides to drop her chantry sister ways and take up a more adventerous/devious persona.

Among the things that come she will not question the warden if he does morally questionable actions, she is less judgemental of morrigan, when Zevran flirts with her she flirts back instead of getting all offended, and joins the warden for a threesome if they decide to have sex with Isabella (foursome if you let Zevran join). As well a few of her personal dialouge lines change, with the addition of her two very different endings for both romanced and non romanced wardens.

Bard Leliana (Hard) and Chantry sister Leliana (Soft) are two very different Leliana's. I don't see how you could not say that she has any inner conflict between those two sides of her.

I can see you beat me to it. That's a different view of it, I didn't harden her and it led to a very different outcome and I saw a different side to her personality. That's exactly it.

Modifié par ZeRoToXiN, 08 janvier 2011 - 09:36 .

[ejoslin]

In the vanilla game, there is really very little difference between hardened and not hardened Leliana -- most of the dialogs are bugged, and her non-hardened dialog triggers in all but a couple of dialogs. But really, hardened Leliana is not much different than non-hardened even if the game is repaired. She's more adventurous sexually (this is not bugged in the vanilla game -- heh, of all her bugs, these were caught), and she seems to not credit everything good to the maker, but her basic personality? I don't see much of a change.



Then again, I'm not a diehard Leliana fan either, so some differences could be totally lost on me.

[DPSSOC]

The Water God wrote...
Yeah dude umm looking at your posts, alot of your knowledge seems like it came from a poorly written Wiki and you have yet to open the case.

Well let's see I've started at least 15 playtrhoughs; I fail to finish them because I forget what kind of character I was going for and have since started keeping notes.  I've finished the game 2 or 3 times pre-note era and am looking at 2 new playthroughs after I'm settled in my new place.  I've even played Leliana's Song (once so I probably missed a lot) which just confused me, if I'm not mistaken it's almost completely different in the details than what she told me and I'm now caught in a loop of wondering if the Devs changed it for the sake of the DLC, if she simply lied to me (which would go toward making the character more interesting), or if I`m just remembering the conversation wrong (outside numbers I have trouble remembering breakfast).  The third is easy to check so once I`m settled in that will take care of that.

The Water God wrote...
I can tell you've never heard of hardening/softening companions, one of the many things that make Leliana's dialouge unique.

Well you'd be wrong then, sorry.  I have hardened and softened Leliana, it doesn't change my opinion of her.

The Water God wrote...
Leliana's entire personality and some dialouge are changed if you choose the right dialouge options after the Marjolaine quest. At which point she decides to drop her chantry sister ways and take up a more adventerous/devious persona.

 
Hmm, maybe this is only something you get a good look at if you romance her.  After the Marjolaine convo I think I have 3 more convo's with her; what she's going to do after, Morrigan's a lucky girl, and I can't remember the third but I'm sure it's there.  Now maybe it's been too long since I've done Hardened Leliana but I don't remember much difference between the two.

The Water God wrote...
Bard Leliana (Hard) and Chantry sister Leliana (Soft) are two very different Leliana's. I don't see how you could not say that she has any inner conflict between those two sides of her.

Because I don't see conflict I see a choice.  Take myself for example; I can be a generally nice guy, I can also be one of the worst people you've ever had the displeasure of meeting.  Now conflict would be if I tried to be nice, but struggled with other aspects of my personality that keep bleeding through or vice-versa.  This is not the case, I choose who I feel like being on a particular day and that's who I am, no conflict, no struggle, nothing.  It's the same with Leliana; she struggles with the decision, who she wants to be, but after that it's done, conflict resolved.

My idea of a conflicted Leliana would be a Chantry Leliana who struggles with some of Bard Leliana's bad habits or a Bard Leliana who occasionally has a crisis of conscience.  What I see isn't a conflict of "Who am I" it's a decision of "Who do I want to be."  That choice holds as much inner conflict as soup or salad (from my perspective).  She wants two things but can only have one.

@ZeRo,

I'll admit I've played one, rushed playthrough of LS just to see what it was about so I probably missed a lot there.  But one thing you bring up is part of the problem, it's not Leliana making the decision, it's you.  I would have loved, and it would have added to my interest, if in trying to harden Leliana she told me to jump in a lake, that she knew who she was and if I had really misjudged her that badly maybe I'm not as good a friend as she thought.  Or even if she'd said that to my trying to soften her, either way I'd be happy.

This is part of what makes Morrigan, Zev, Sten, etc. more interesting to me is that they have their own views, their own opinions and while they may change over time it's their doing, not mine.  I may influence them through my words and actions but I'm not making the decision for them.  With Alistair and Leliana I am, I decide who they're going to be, what they're going to believe, and they just go along with it.  Confront me, disagree with me, FIGHT me for god's sake.  Now I'm gonna do a no Coercion run to see how things turn out but it seems like all of Leliana's objections to my actions (except one, I was so proud of her) can be brushed aside with a simple, "No guy, it's alright, just relax."

Also,

ZeRoToXiN wrote...
I can understand if you hate her accent, I eventually grew to like it, and despite all there is to her you still don't like her character. It's another thing if you totally miss out on some of the details that help make her interesting.

I'm pretty sure I covered this in my first post but I do like Leliana, I usually avoid hardening her because I do like the character we meet in Lothering.  That doesn't make her interesting though.  I have two very good friends, known them for years, one of them is less interesting than watching paint dry.  I still like him because he has a lot of good qualities, but he's still boring.  Another example mashed potatoes.  I love mashed potatoes, one of my favourite foods of all time, but can anyone honestly say they're an interesting or exciting food?  No they're dull, they're boiled potatoes, milk, and butter, but I still like them.

Yes I have complaints about the accent that make talking to her difficult, but I still like the character.

[AliceTheGiraffe]

I find Leliana to be an enjoyable companion in the game, especially as a romance option (she is at the top of the list as a romance interest). However, if the warden makes choices that are unsatisfactory to Leliana, she can be a little bothersome. Overall though, I rather like Leliana. In fact, I enjoy all of the companions, well except for Morrigan (-sex ritual no thank you- but that's another story), but I believe I am one of the few to think so.

[HolyAvenger]

I see the Sten "No" response has already been done, so I'll be leaving the thread now.

[mcsquared2]

As a male pc, I found Leliana ok in fact, since this is my fiftth complete game playthrough, I decided that I would keep her as my romance person and that this would be the game I transfer to Dragon Age 2.  I'm trying to get all the side quests this time around and don't want to transfer a game to DA 2 with a character that ran off at the end with Morrigan.   When romancing Morrigan, remember that she's "available" only once during the game and then only during the ritual.  Leliana famous words, "I thought you would never ask" is available any time your in camp.

[DPSSOC]

The Water God wrote...
She's been trying to be a different person for two years. You don't think she's gotten it down by then? The convo you have after her quest is proof she's been trying to hide it away that she misses her old bard life.

But that's the problem she hasn't been trying to be a different person she's been a different person.  Prior to the Marjolaine incident I see no conflict, she's not ashamed or remorseful about anything she'd done, doesn't seem conflicted at all with who she was and who she is now.  Marjolaine only served to raise doubt as to whether or not the person she'd been was genuine or if it was just another lie; one she'd convinced even herself to be the truth.  This has huge potential for a conflicted, interesting character but it comes and goes like high noon (for me anyway).

Now I'm starting a new playthrough this weekend (hopefully) so I'm gonna try something different.  As early as I can I'm going to do Lel's quest, because in all previous playthroughs I tend to put it off and end up gaining a lot of approval when I can't talk to her about anything.  So I'll get that out of the way and see if it changes the pacing at all, maybe there's more of a gap between the "I have doubts" and "I solved it" convos than I think.  I'll also limit my convos to one topic per camp stop/quest.

With so many people disagreeing with me I'm willing to go into the game with new eyes, hopefully I will have results by monday.

[ejoslin]

The Water God wrote...

mcsquared2 wrote...

As a male pc, I found Leliana ok in fact, since this is my fiftth complete game playthrough, I decided that I would keep her as my romance person and that this would be the game I transfer to Dragon Age 2.  I'm trying to get all the side quests this time around and don't want to transfer a game to DA 2 with a character that ran off at the end with Morrigan.   When romancing Morrigan, remember that she's "available" only once during the game and then only during the ritual.  Leliana famous words, "I thought you would never ask" is available any time your in camp.

I think that you can have sex with Morrigan as many times as you want at 30 approval.

Never ever trust the wiki  I believe that Morrigan won't have sex with the warden until 51+ (care).  30 would be an impossible approval number for a change to happen.

**spoiler warning**

Morrigan is willing to have sex until she falls in love.  Leliana will not have sex until she falls in love.

Edit: double checked the toolset, and yes, Morrigan does not have sex until 51+ care.  It's easy to get her there with gifts and such very early in the game which may be why some people get confused.

It's actually kind of interesting -- Alistair gives his gift at "care", Morrigan at "adore", and Zevran at "love."  Leliana does not give a gift to her romance partner at all (the song is not approval based).  Morrigan and Zevran both go through the same type of crisis when they fall in love, but resolve it very differently.  I wonder if Morrigan had felt she was able to make a commitment at that time if her romance closure would have been the same as Zevran's.

Modifié par ejoslin, 13 janvier 2011 - 12:08 .

[DPSSOC]

The Water God wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...
But that's the problem she hasn't been trying to be a different person she's been a different person.  Prior to the Marjolaine incident I see no conflict, she's not ashamed or remorseful about anything she'd done, doesn't seem conflicted at all with who she was and who she is now.  .

Umm dude, I ask again have you heard her any of her dialogues or banters?

 
I must admit I miss out on most of her banters as I live with other people and have to be quiet (and combat get's really, really, loud) so I play with the volume too low to hear most of the inter-party stuff.  What I have caught is a few of her talking about her old life like it was a game, recounting it not with the tone of a reformed and remorseful criminal, but the content nostalgia I share talking about Duck Hunt.

The Water God wrote...
Her whole story is about her trying to be a better person from what she used to be. She talks about her bard life with almost all of the party members.

 
But again it never comes across as trying to me she's succeeding, success is boring.  You never catch her sneaking around spying on people, or attempting to seduce the party for long term security (if it comes down to another companion or her they'll choose her) or just for giggles.  There's no sign of struggle, no discourse because of how different her two personalities are, all I see is someone perfectly content and at peace with their past and present circumstances encountering a moment of doubt and resolving it in 2 convo's.  Like I said maybe if I focus on it her pacing will work out better but at the moment she jumps from being perfectly ok with who she is/was, to a moment of doubt, to being perfectly fine with it again.

The Water God wrote...
Not really sure how many dialogues you need to show she's used to ashamed or remorseful of what she did but here's one dialogue with Morrigan:

Morrigan: So I see you are quite the little deceiver, after all."
Leliana: Finally decided to gloat, have you?"
Morrigan: It simply suits my view of the Chantry that one of their devoted sisters should turn out to be so full of hypocrisy.
Leliana: There are good people in the Chantry. Many good people who are just there to help others.
Morrigan: And apparently at least a few who are simply pretending to be good.
Leliana: At least I was trying to be better than I was. At least I regretted the evil I'd done. Better that than be someone who's never loved anyone or anything, least of all herself. Anything but that.
Morrigan: It seem that at least you got the self-righteousness down pat. Well done.

That doesn't show she's ashamed or remorseful?

Hmm this would be one of the ones I missed, perhaps there are more.  Like I said, new playthrough, new eyes, new perspective, perhaps my mind will change come Monday.

The Water God wrote...

Now I'm gonna do a no Coercion run to see how things turn out but it seems like all of Leliana's objections to my actions (except one, I was so proud of her) can be brushed aside with a simple, "No guy, it's alright, just relax."

She's one of only 3 characters that turns around and kills you (defiling the ahses),

 
Yes and I was so proud of her, not so much Wynne as she'd stood up to me before but still so proud.

The Water God wrote...
she has a chance to lose whopping 30 approval when you first meet her (killing the merchant in Lothering). Most of the time the Warden does something evil she disaproves. Not really sure how you claim she's just brushing all but one objection off.

Because she doesn't do anything about it.  For all she disapproves she does nothing.  Take Connor for instance.  I decide to kill Connor rather than do the ritual, Leliana objects, I say this is how it has to be, and she accepts it.  That's a concern being brushed off.  I'd have been happy if she said, "No we can't do this, I want no part of this." and gameplay-wise nothing changes (you can still take her with you with a hit to approval) because it shows she still objects.  Now I'm not saying the other companions are much better, even Alistair only really stands up to you once (that I can remember) but again with Connor he objects and then takes you to task for it after the fact.  That's all I need, someone to push their disagreement beyond my decision.  Someone to say, "I don't care what you've decided I'm not doing this." even if nothing comes of it (they're still in party and useable) because it shows the character has a spine.

[ZeRoToXiN]

DPSSOC wrote...

The Water God wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...
But that's the problem she hasn't been trying to be a different person she's been a different person.  Prior to the Marjolaine incident I see no conflict, she's not ashamed or remorseful about anything she'd done, doesn't seem conflicted at all with who she was and who she is now.  .

Umm dude, I ask again have you heard her any of her dialogues or banters?

 
I must admit I miss out on most of her banters as I live with other people and have to be quiet (and combat get's really, really, loud) so I play with the volume too low to hear most of the inter-party stuff.  What I have caught is a few of her talking about her old life like it was a game, recounting it not with the tone of a reformed and remorseful criminal, but the content nostalgia I share talking about Duck Hunt.

But again it never comes across as trying to me she's succeeding, success is boring.  You never catch her sneaking around spying on people, or attempting to seduce the party for long term security (if it comes down to another companion or her they'll choose her) or just for giggles.  There's no sign of struggle, no discourse because of how different her two personalities are, all I see is someone perfectly content and at peace with their past and present circumstances encountering a moment of doubt and resolving it in 2 convo's.  Like I said maybe if I focus on it her pacing will work out better but at the moment she jumps from being perfectly ok with who she is/was, to a moment of doubt, to being perfectly fine with it again.

...

Because she doesn't do anything about it.  For all she disapproves she does nothing.  Take Connor for instance.  I decide to kill Connor rather than do the ritual, Leliana objects, I say this is how it has to be, and she accepts it.  That's a concern being brushed off.  I'd have been happy if she said, "No we can't do this, I want no part of this." and gameplay-wise nothing changes (you can still take her with you with a hit to approval) because it shows she still objects.  Now I'm not saying the other companions are much better, even Alistair only really stands up to you once (that I can remember) but again with Connor he objects and then takes you to task for it after the fact.  That's all I need, someone to push their disagreement beyond my decision.  Someone to say, "I don't care what you've decided I'm not doing this." even if nothing comes of it (they're still in party and useable) because it shows the character has a spine.

The banter The Water God posted shows how she's changed and regrets her past action. However, there are also times where she seems content with some things she has done and even tries to justify it. As to secceeeding vs trying to change - yes, the majority of the change is behind her. Perhaps the transformation of her character is completed when she decides to join you to combat the Blight. One final act of redemption and doing what's right (or so it seems at the time). When you have to deal with Marjaloine, she doubts her choice and her transformation, and your choices determine what path she chooses.  So I think she's not a character who is trying to change her life around, she already has done that - she merely doubts her change that has already taken place in the Marjolaine episode - "maybe it's not genuine, maybe I'm just running away from myself". So her struggle and inner conflict is not  a dominant aspect of her current persona - it's behind her, and it merely resurfaces for short while.

For the point of her being content/okay with some of her dark past, you are right, she is somewhat alright with parts of it. When you ask her about bards using the art of seduction, for example, she explains it all and justifies it as being better than violence killing, saying it's just a "game" (although it's a cultural thing somewhat, as in "the game" of nobility power strugglesin Orlais being a normal thing to her). Also, see:

• Alistair: I will never get over how quietly you are able to move.
• Leliana: It took me years and years to learn and even then I am not the best at it.
• Alistair: So you didn't sneak around when spying?
• Leliana: We all had different ways of doing things. Some
  preferred not to be seen at all, to cloak themselves in shadow and
  darkness. I realized that it is not such a bad thing to be seen, as long
  as you do not stand out and are quickly forgotten. I specialized in
  blending in, not drawing attention and looking like I had every right to
  be there. It is invisibility, but of another kind.
• Alistair: Ah, yes, but I heard you often seduced your targets. They'd remember you.
• Leliana: Not if they died...
• Alistair: Oh.
• Leliana: Dying while in the company of a lovely seductress... tell me that isn't a good death.
• Alistair: I don't know if I should take you seriously... but you scare me sometimes.

As for the disagreement not being that strong - I don't think that's a limit of the story so much as the game. Wouldn't it be annoying if you're companions turned on you too easily? As in, I (the player) really want to make choice X but if I do this companion will leave me so I won't  just because I don't want to lose this character from my party. I think it's a big step that there are 3 (that I know of) points that companions will leave at anyway.

Modifié par ZeRoToXiN, 14 janvier 2011 - 03:28 .

[DPSSOC]

ZeRoToXiN wrote...
The banter The Water God posted shows how she's changed and regrets her past action. However, there are also times where she seems content with some things she has done and even tries to justify it. As to secceeeding vs trying to change - yes, the majority of the change is behind her. Perhaps the transformation of her character is completed when she decides to join you to combat the Blight. One final act of redemption and doing what's right (or so it seems at the time). When you have to deal with Marjaloine, she doubts her choice and her transformation, and your choices determine what path she chooses.  So I think she's not a character who is trying to change her life around, she already has done that - she merely doubts her change that has already taken place in the Marjolaine episode - "maybe it's not genuine, maybe I'm just running away from myself". So her struggle and inner conflict is not  a dominant aspect of her current persona - it's behind her, and it merely resurfaces for short while.

Which is all I'm saying, Leliana's past is interesting, her present is not.  I'd have loved to meet Leliana durring her period of change.  As it stands she's gone through her period of conflict and, aside from a single moment of doubt, has settled in to who she is and wants to be.  That's great, makes for a good character, but, if I might be insensitive for a moment, a recovered addict is nowhere near as interesting to watch as someone just kicking the habit.  Leliana's a great character, she has a lot of good qualities and I usually bring her along with me (unless I'm a rogue, too much squishy in one party is a bad thing), but I don't find her interesting.  Her past is, she's not.

ZeRoToXiN wrote...
As for the disagreement not being that strong - I don't think that's a limit of the story so much as the game. Wouldn't it be annoying if you're companions turned on you too easily? As in, I (the player) really want to make choice X but if I do this companion will leave me so I won't  just because I don't want to lose this character from my party. I think it's a big step that there are 3 (that I know of) points that companions will leave at anyway.

I agree I just chose bad examples because they leapt to my mind first.  I don't want my companions to run off over every little thing, I like the amount of that in-game that we have.  What I do want is for them to continue disagreeing with me.  Using the Connor example the Dialogue goes pretty much like this:

Warden: Forget the ritual we fight the demon here.
Leliana: No we can't do this, there must be a better way.
Warden: [Persuade]This is how it has to be.
Leiana: It just doesn't feel like we've done enough.

That last line comes across (to me) as a sullen ok, like a child agreeing to do something they find unpleasant not an adult objecting to something they find morally reprehensible.  I would have been fine with an angry or pleading, "No this isn't right and you know it." or anything else that shows they still find my action to be terrible.  Even if nothing comes of it beyond an approval hit it shows that the character isn't someone who can be browbeaten by my aura of awesome.  Heck even if Lel had piped up when Isolde was pleading for her son's life I'd have been satisfied allowing for the possibility that she accepted, grudgingly, that this was necessary until the actual moment and couldn't agree with it anymore.  I don't want her to up and leave because of it but I want her to keep objecting beyond my telling her this is the right thing.

[wickedgoodreed]

DPSSOC wrote...

ZeRoToXiN wrote...
As for the disagreement not being that strong - I don't think that's a limit of the story so much as the game. Wouldn't it be annoying if you're companions turned on you too easily? As in, I (the player) really want to make choice X but if I do this companion will leave me so I won't  just because I don't want to lose this character from my party. I think it's a big step that there are 3 (that I know of) points that companions will leave at anyway.

I agree I just chose bad examples because they leapt to my mind first.  I don't want my companions to run off over every little thing, I like the amount of that in-game that we have.  What I do want is for them to continue disagreeing with me.  Using the Connor example the Dialogue goes pretty much like this:

Warden: Forget the ritual we fight the demon here.
Leliana: No we can't do this, there must be a better way.
Warden: [Persuade]This is how it has to be.
Leiana: It just doesn't feel like we've done enough.

That last line comes across (to me) as a sullen ok, like a child agreeing to do something they find unpleasant not an adult objecting to something they find morally reprehensible.  I would have been fine with an angry or pleading, "No this isn't right and you know it." or anything else that shows they still find my action to be terrible.  Even if nothing comes of it beyond an approval hit it shows that the character isn't someone who can be browbeaten by my aura of awesome.  Heck even if Lel had piped up when Isolde was pleading for her son's life I'd have been satisfied allowing for the possibility that she accepted, grudgingly, that this was necessary until the actual moment and couldn't agree with it anymore.  I don't want her to up and leave because of it but I want her to keep objecting beyond my telling her this is the right thing.

You can't really fault Leliana for the game mechanic working like it's supposed to. The whole point of the coercion skill is getting NPCs to agree with you whether they think it's a good idea or not. If you had failed the persuade check, she would continue disagreeing with you: "No, I don't know that. You do this and you'll be killing an innocent. His death will not make up for any of the others."

If you don't want your companions to be "browbeaten by your aura of awesome," then don't select that option and you'll get different reactions from them.