150 réponses à ce sujet

[MajesticJazz]

For reference:

I am not saying that if you dislike Jacob then you are racist. No, I am just pointing out there there are some if not many Mass Effect fans that dislike Jacob not because he is black, but because he is a black that their their perfect female Shepards seems to have the hots for. Not because he is black, but because he doesn't fit the comic relief roll that many people expect from black characters like Cole Train in Gears of War or Samuel L. Jackson in many of his movies (Snakes on a Plane). Not because he is black, but because unlike other prominent black characters (Griggs in Modern Warfare and Cole Train in GOW), Jacob is very opinionated and in some ways, trys to rub his thoughts onto Shepard and a lot of gamers found that as a huge breach.

Of course people would never admit to that so instead they find other nitpick reasons to attack Jacob which is really unfortunate as you say because people nitpick Jacob for his flaws/shortcomings and act as if ALL the other ME2 squad is just SOOOOOOOOO perfect and ONLY Jacob is the one who is flawed.

However, I applaud Bioware for doing what they did with Jacob. They (first developer to do this?) took a black male and made him sexual, a love interest in a market where the majority of the audience is white.  I applaud Bioware because they didn't make Jacob the minstrel show stereotype with slang talk here and slang talk there (Cole Train) but rather a well spoken individual with opinions.

In many ways, I believe the reaction to Jacob tells a lot about where we are as a society today and how far we still need to go. Having Obama as the President of the US wasn't going to eliminate racial ignorance because it is just too embedded in world culture. It won't be probably until another millennia when racial ignorance becomes pretty much non-existant. Until then, we have to deal with this "subtle" racism that exist today. This isnt the 1950s when it was normal for someone to come out and say something really racial and nobody would even twitch at this individual's words. Today, people like to deny racism even though it exist because they rather avoid the bigger debate/problem so they just dismiss it, like the counsil in regards to the Reapers.

If you do not believe me that Jacob carries a lot of race hate, then just goto youtube and type in Jacob ME2 romance and look at the various videos and read the comments. The N word is mentioned a lot and other phrases like "black sea monster" and "space jungle fever" and so on.

I am going to stand by my word in that I do NOT want Bioware to change anything about Jacob's personality. Bioware cannot keep on changing their characters to be more darker or edgy (Like Liara/Garrus in ME2) just because fans want their characters to gain more cool points. Jacob was a breath of fresh air because he was essentially normal and not some person with some WILD and crazy backstory. Hell, in a way, Jacob really reflected Shepard in many ways. Like Shepard, Jacob was on in the alliance and served at Eden Prime. Like Shepard, Jacob saved the Counsil from a threat....not as huge as Saren and the Geth but it was a threat. Like Shepard, Jacob's heroics were dismissed with the notion that they did not want to show how "broken" the system is as Jacob told Shepard in ME2.  

In the end, Jacob is a fine character. Thing is, he just isn't what everyone else expects him to be which is some space badazz like a Garrus, Thane, Zaeed and others. And in some ways, Jacob was TOO MUCH for people in regards to his sexual nature and femshep's reaction to him which did NOT run smoothly with some sensitve people who are still living in a closed minded world.

Great character with much potential in ME3 and in my opinion.

Again, I applaud Bioware.

diskoh wrote...

I understand what you're saying, but I think here on this board you should give people more credit than that. This isn't Youtube, we're all fans of the game and I think by and large more mature than that.

I'm not offended by your ideas at all, and I agree with them in a lot of ways, I would just hope you aren't quick to assume the worst about someone in such a way. Never know who you're talking to.

Maybe I mis-spoke somewhere but I don't mean just the Bioware forums, I mean the whole Mass Effect community as a whole or by extent, the gaming community. Not just ME fans here, but fans on youtube, ign forums, gamespot forums etc.....

There are blog sites (http://fangirlisms.c...n-a-cuttlebone/) that are expressing their HATE for Jacob....not dislike of Jacob, but HATE.

Hate -  to dislike intensely or passionately; feel extreme aversion for or extreme hostility toward; detest: to hate the enemy; to hate bigotry.

It is okay to hate the Reapers because they are trying or planning to eliminate all life forms in the galaxy, mass killers. Jacob is just one person with some strong views and opinions but at the end, he trust Shepard completely especially more so than Miranda in the beginning.

From a perspective of race, Jacob Taylor reveals a lot about the culture of videogamers, and it isn't promising.

Modifié par MajesticJazz, 10 janvier 2011 - 11:55 .

[ObserverStatus]

I don't think the solution is to make him flashier, just have him tell Shepard a few interesting stories and do a better job of writing femshep's dialogue when she is interacting with him.

[PrinceLionheart]

diskoh wrote...

mrsph wrote...

Maybe Commander Shepard should just **** off and let Jacob work?

Or say "I didn't ask if you're big on these talks, you'll follow orders or find a new ship."

I didn't know making conversation was an order. 

[ObserverStatus]

PrinceLionheart wrote...

diskoh wrote...

mrsph wrote...

Maybe Commander Shepard should just **** off and let Jacob work?

Or say "I didn't ask if you're big on these talks, you'll follow orders or find a new ship."

I didn't know making conversation was an order. 

Spectres can do anything they want.

[PrinceLionheart]

diskoh wrote...

Don't forget he wanted to throw Legion out an airlock.

It's not like every Geth prior to that had tried to kill both Jacob and Shepard. How dare Jacob see Legion as a potential threat. <_<

[PrinceLionheart]

PrinceLionheart wrote...

diskoh wrote...

Don't forget he wanted to throw Legion out an airlock.

 

It's not like every Geth prior to that had tried to kill both Jacob and Shepard. How dare Jacob see Legion as a potential threat. <_<

bobobo878 wrote...

I don't think the solution is to make him flashier, just have him tell Shepard a few interesting stories and do a better job of writing femshep's dialogue when she is interacting with him.

Aka, do what they did for Garrus. I agreed. 

[Cra5y Pineapple]

 *Reads OP*

I'm sorry but that is the most bat sh*t insane thing I have ever read.

[diskoh]

Miranda was pretty ****y at the beginning. How would it have made you feel if Shepard had to say "mmmm you smell good baby" before each interaction, which she then rejects but you can't express disinterest? I would be annoyed as hell. That's what they do for FemSheps and Jacob.

Modifié par diskoh, 11 janvier 2011 - 12:09 .

[LOST SPARTANJLC]

Diskoh ,

It sounds more like someone over-reached a bit with the dialog between Fem Shepard and Jacob.Fem Shepard writer might need a female perspective because going by what your saying it sounds as if a male wrote from a male perspective of how they think the conversation's should go.On the romance side they seemed to have stereotype and gave jacob a different personality causing confusion perhaps.

On him talking about every new crew member : Thing is Jacob reaction is pretty much normal. He’s on a ship full of different personalities , and that could betray him , Miranda and Shepard if given that right opportunity.Garrus , Tali(despite their bad start ) , Samara , Mordin , I think he didn't really have too much of a problem with them. Jack, Grunt, Zaeed, Thane and Legion on the other hand, in real life I wouldn't trust any of them.

I would always have in the back of my head that they might shoot me in the back, which is why his extreme caution is warranted. Now over the course of the game it's minimized to only Legion who proves himself in the Loyalty Mission and Suicide Mission.

Modifié par LOST SPARTANJLC, 11 janvier 2011 - 04:11 .

[Estelindis]

There are lots of things I don't like about the way Jacob's character is implemented and how the interaction between him and Shepard, and between him and other characters, is written.



But you know what? Bundles of people hate (or at least don't like) my favourite character, Kaidan. So I imagine (and this thread would seem to support my imagining) that many people like Jacob just the way he is. So why change that?



If something *could* be done, I'd want it to be as follows: figure out what makes Jacob fans like Jacob, and then figure out how to present him so that more people see these appealing characteristics. (From my point of view, any failures re. Jacob are mostly failures of presentation.)

[Nightwriter]

How do you fix him? Well, first - how did he fail?

I'm discarding the "femShep compulsive sex kitten dialogue" reason - my first playthrough of ME2 was with a male Shepard, and Jacob still rubbed me the wrong way.

Now: how did he fail?

[Praetor Knight]

Nightwriter wrote...

How do you fix him? Well, first - how did he fail?

I'm discarding the "femShep compulsive sex kitten dialogue" reason - my first playthrough of ME2 was with a male Shepard, and Jacob still rubbed me the wrong way.

Now: how did he fail?

He's believable as a jaded / stoic veteran. At least give him an assault rifle, any tech power and/or replace barrier and he's good to go, IMHO.


*************************************************
He desperately needs an awesome cut scene too, maybe...

[Harid]

Don't make him a Vanguard without charge. Don't base any ally on the Vanguard class without giving them charge for that matter, as Vanguard without charge is probably the worst class in the game. This goes for Jack too.  because of this, I would argue that Jacob was the worst combatant in the game.

Give him, at the very least, an Assault Rifle.

Give him either better biotics or better combat skills. AFAIK he was totally different than he was in the novel, and didn't come across as too great a combatant or a biotic, despite . . . supposedly being one.

I'd bring up more on what he did in the novel. He came across as an ordinary man surrounded by extraordinary people, when he shouldn't have been. I would have made him closer to Zaeed as a combatant than what they made him, but I would have kept his attitude. I always saw Jacob as Shepard if he had never been assigned to the Spectres and was stuck on some freighter somewhere in space, i.e. he's a reflection of what would have happened if you, Shepard never received any of the opportunities he got. Basically need to show why he was so great in that mini game you made for him.

I never played femshep though. But "The Prizzzze" was just. . .no one talks like that. Was hilarious though.  But if someone wrote that without intention to be funny. . .you need to get some freelancers to check over your dialogue.

He was my bro, though.  Totally would have made him my second in command before Miranda.  As a black guy, it's rare to have a black video game character that isn't comedy relief. . .I am tired of clowns like Cole Train being representative of black characters in fiction.

I would argue that Jacob probably had the second or third best loyalty mission in the game though (Tali. . .Miranda? maybe). . .I don't see how anyone could hate it.  It was one of the few real. . .well, realistic feeling missions in the game, given all the things that could happen to someone landing on alien worlds.

Modifié par Harid, 11 janvier 2011 - 05:42 .

[lazuli]

Harid wrote...
I would argue that Jacob probably had the second or third best loyalty mission in the game though (Tali. . .Miranda? maybe). . .I don't see how anyone could hate it.  It was one of the few real. . .well, realistic feeling missions in the game, given all the things that could happen to someone landing on alien worlds.

I think we lose that feeling of mystery here on the boards.  Those recordings on the ship are disturbing the first time you hear them and don't know what's going on.  On subsequent playthroughs, however, the tension is diminished.  I liked his loyalty mission the first time.  Now I just hear the anapests.  "..stripped for parts after the crash... could've survived but it's been years..."

[Encarmine]

from a gameplay point of view, the character is kinda pointless, Pull, incendry rounds, operative and barrier.... BARRIER as his unlock???? Why the F%^K would I at anytime feel the urge to have one of my teammates protect himself?



like an earlier poster said, give him biotic charge, or somthing cool. Jack suffers the same broken gameplay feeling.



as a character he is cool, i enjoy the dialog, dont understand why anyone wouldnt, everyones entitled to an oppinion though.



I think whoever directed Jenifer Hale on her scenes in talking to Jacob needs to be shot, or moved to a different department (like making coffee or somthing) as it was totally messed up, hearing her get all horny when u just want to ask him about upgrades.



If anyone dislikes the character based on his race, then thats just messed up, you need to be kicked back into the 19th century where you belong.

[lazuli]

Encarmine wrote...

from a gameplay point of view, the character is kinda pointless, Pull, incendry rounds, operative and barrier.... BARRIER as his unlock???? Why the F%^K would I at anytime feel the urge to have one of my teammates protect himself?

like an earlier poster said, give him biotic charge, or somthing cool. Jack suffers the same broken gameplay feeling.
 

I agree that Barrier is awful.  It would be bordering on acceptable if the player could be in control of when Jacob uses it.  Sadly, that is not the case.

Giving Jacob Charge is not the answer though.  The AI isn't built to handle the nuances of playing Vanguard effectively.  Squadmates already have the ability to teleport anyways.

[Harid]

lazuli wrote...

Encarmine wrote...

from a gameplay point of view, the character is kinda pointless, Pull, incendry rounds, operative and barrier.... BARRIER as his unlock???? Why the F%^K would I at anytime feel the urge to have one of my teammates protect himself?

like an earlier poster said, give him biotic charge, or somthing cool. Jack suffers the same broken gameplay feeling.
 

I agree that Barrier is awful.  It would be bordering on acceptable if the player could be in control of when Jacob uses it.  Sadly, that is not the case.

Giving Jacob Charge is not the answer though.  The AI isn't built to handle the nuances of playing Vanguard effectively.  Squadmates already have the ability to teleport anyways.

Could work more like Krogan/Shadow Broker Charge, than true Vanguard charge.

My main point though was not to base any ally on Vanguard, though.  They are a bad class without charge.

Modifié par Harid, 11 janvier 2011 - 07:01 .

[Encarmine]

maybe making him a sentinal would of worked, let hm activate his power armour, that would of been cool i guess, at least he would knock people down when he gets nuked while standing on a box or whatever haha

[MajesticJazz]

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

On him talking about every new crew member : Thing is Jacob reaction is pretty much normal. He’s on a ship full of different personalities , and that could betray him , Miranda and Shepard if given that right opportunity.Garrus , Tali(despite their bad start ) , Samara , Mordin , I think he didn't really have too much of a problem with them. Jack, Grunt, Zaeed, Thane and Legion on the other hand, in real life I wouldn't trust any of them.

I would always have in the back of my head that they might shoot me in the back, which is why his extreme caution is warranted. Now over the course of the game it's minimized to only Legion who proves himself in the Loyalty Mission and Suicide Mission.

Exactly, if I were on that ship, I would be paranoid that Legion would suddendly turn bad on me. I would be paranoid that Thane has a contract to kill me. I would be paranoid that Grunt would eventually attack me out of meaningless rage. And so on......

Thing is, in a game that is filled with aliens and all of these exotic characters, people tend to forget about the human elements and perspective. Would Garrus still be as appealing if he were human? Would Tali still have the following if she were human? If Liara was human, would she be so popular?

[Destroy Raiden_]

cachx wrote...

Tribbleofdoom wrote...

The solution to any problem is to turn said problem into a cyborg.

Kojima did it, so can Bioware.

Cyborg ninja Jacob for ME3 !

^ ONE DAY RAIDEN IS GOING TO DIE BY MY HAND!!!!! DESTROY RAIDEN!!!

More off the killing of that annoying annoying man child....




I don’t think there is a fix for Jacob he’s creepy like Conrad, he’s not cute, and he sucks at talking. I was happy to have him on board he seems like a nice guy, and his personality or principles seem at odds with Cerberus, but you can’t say two words to the guy w/o hitting on him or at least it sounding that way, then the other half he doesn’t want to be forced to talk to me, and I don’t know maybe it’s because he’s cooped up around the armory all day I just think he’s making a mega weapon I’m creep out by him like I’m creeped out by my male shuttle, and Conrad all of them are planning something against me….but maybe if he left the armory, actually talked, and shep wasn’t sexually harassing him every other sentence I cold really grow to like him in a friendly way.

[Drowsy0106]

He needs to loose that soldier boy attitude. I always let him give the gun to his father but that doesn't seem to help. Not to mention his idiotic comment towards Tali about introducing herself to EDI. Skipping his loyalty quest on my current runs, he's never gonna learn or stop saluting.

[Lord Jaric]

I never really understood the hate towards Jacob, I can understand the frustration of femsheps sounding like they are flirting with him, but not the hate towards him. The guy seemed to be the most (for the lack of saying human) normal of the squad. He seemed to be the only squad member that could be looked through by everyone, unlike all the others who had something special or a serous problem that few people have.

Modifié par Lord Jaric, 11 janvier 2011 - 11:30 .