252 réponses à ce sujet

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Brockololly wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
Sure, but that applies to DA2, as well.  I know they look better than anything I've seen for DA2, early or late.  But the art style is just more to my liking- the LOTResque look that everyone apparently abhors. 

What I love about Skyrim is how people look like people and not piles of melting wax or Botoxed up action figures!

I'm willing to see how DA2 shapes up visually (especially if they're polishing it up now), but if I end up enjoying the game I feel it will be in spite of its graphics and visuals, not because of them. Which is a shame as I really had hoped they'd go more along the Origins path of trying to look realistic as opposed to the kind of fake cartoonish look it seem stuck with now. 

DA2: now with more World of Warcraft graphics. For a series that was supposed to be dark and gritty, its too bad they didn't keep the visuals dark and gritty and more on the side of realism, rather than the cartoony WoW look.

[RohanD]

David Gaider wrote...

Atakuma wrote...
It's not about the ceilings. They did it so they didn't have to design encounters around two very different camera systems.

Correct. And the ceiling thing is not about simply having a pretty ceiling to look at but, rather, the ability to design a level with more "vertical" space in mind because we don't need to worry about putting a camera up there.

Please just come right out, be honest and say you did this to save costs. Don't try to sell it as "improving the experience" because PC gamers simply aren't buying that. The consoles can't handle or deal with this view due to lack of power and the lack of a mouse and keyboard. 

It makes perfect sense that, since you are streamlining for a better console experience, you wouldn't waste money on a PC exclusive feature which would suck up as many resources as this.

What annoys me is that your PR statements have continually danced around this topic in so many different ways. First it was ceiling art, then it was the encounters, then the camera needed to be detachable to maintain tactical play, but wait! Now it's not detachable...

It's just a mess of PR speak which basically adds up to: "Sorry PC owners, you got shafted because the consoles are where the money is at, and we are following the money. Case closed".

I don't blame you for this, I'd do the same in your situation, but at least be honest about it.

[David Gaider]

RohanD wrote...
I don't blame you for this, I'd do the same in your situation, but at least be honest about it.

Why ask for honesty if you're simply going to assume I'm lying? There are always many reasons for every decision such as this one, and the tactical camera had a significant impact on both how we built levels and how we designed the gameplay. If there is a cost savings to be had, then yes-- it was in not attempting to try and do both versions at the same time with the possible effect of making compromises we didn't wish to make any longer.

If you want to see that as a spin on my part, then by all means do so. It's not really something I have anything to do with.

[Yrkoon]

I have a question.  But it's about something that was being discussed earlier on this thread.  From watching the trailers  (the sebastion one, and the DA2 main trailer),  I'm noticing a distinct difference in character  faces.  They're softer and not nearly as defined as they are in origins.  Sabastian (for example) has no lines/wrinkles at all,   Moreover, Bethany, Isabella and Sabastian seem to have rounded,  puffy-like heads  (someone compared them to Sims 3 models or whatever).

My question is: are these old builds, as someone suggested?  Or is this the actual, final, art decision  and  what we can expect from the finished product?

Modifié par Yrkoon, 09 janvier 2011 - 07:37 .

[David Gaider]

Yrkoon wrote...
My question is: are these old builds, as someone suggested?  Or is this the actual, final, art decision  and  what we can expect from the finished product?

To be honest, I'm not sure what you're talking about. The heads are across the board, just as they were in Origins, and personally I always thought the skin looked a little "plastic" in Origins (I know that's something the art team has worked on). Perhaps it doesn't translate well in screenshots, I don't know, but I think the heads overall are improved.

[magicwins]

David Gaider wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...
My question is: are these old builds, as someone suggested?  Or is this the actual, final, art decision  and  what we can expect from the finished product?

To be honest, I'm not sure what you're talking about. The heads are across the board, just as they were in Origins, and personally I always thought the skin looked a little "plastic" in Origins (I know that's something the art team has worked on). Perhaps it doesn't translate well in screenshots, I don't know, but I think the heads overall are improved.

What I'm wondering is this: Will the final game look closer to what those screenies on xboxlive look like, or more like the Sebastian trailer? The level of finish on those pictures is incredible. I really don't know what it is that makes them look better, but I have a strong desire to get this character reveal there from here.

[Ninotchka]

David Gaider wrote...
To be honest, I'm not sure what you're talking about. The heads are across the board, just as they were in Origins, and personally I always thought the skin looked a little "plastic" in Origins (I know that's something the art team has worked on). Perhaps it doesn't translate well in screenshots, I don't know, but I think the heads overall are improved.

Like some others, I have been underwhelmed by what has been presented thus far. Not because I am opposed to change, but because the changes are clearly less realistic and there seemed to be many DA fans who appreciated this realism and (mistakenly) assumed that it would be carried over into DA2.

Each to their own though, and as I said earlier, I guess we will only really be able to judge the graphics when we finally get the game.

Graphics aside, can't wait for the DA2 story to unfold

Modifié par Ninotchka, 09 janvier 2011 - 08:18 .

[Captain Sassy Pants]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

Busomjack wrote...

Will the graphics be a step up from Dragon Age:Origins?

Yes.

Good to know.

Now watch as everyone ignores your comment.

A paid worker offered up his favourable opinion as fact! Yay, we can all be at ease.

[Captain Sassy Pants]

Busomjack wrote...

Woohoo!  Here comes the calvary!

David Gaider will mop the floor with these Bioware haters who are trashing Dragon Age II's graphics.

By offering his (completely biased) opinion on a completely subjective subject?

Oh boy, I sure got owned...

[biostarfan]

^ you picked the prefect name.

[Yrkoon]

Ninotchka wrote...

David Gaider wrote...
To be honest, I'm not sure what you're talking about. The heads are across the board, just as they were in Origins, and personally I always thought the skin looked a little "plastic" in Origins (I know that's something the art team has worked on). Perhaps it doesn't translate well in screenshots, I don't know, but I think the heads overall are improved.

Like some others, I have been underwhelmed by what has been presented thus far. Not because I am opposed to change, but because the changes are clearly less realistic and there seemed to be many DA fans who appreciated this realism and (mistakenly) assumed that it would be carried over into DA2

  The Realism...  That's one of the truly bizzare things I've noticed from  watching the trailers and looking at the screenshots.  Sometimes the stuff from DA2 looks way more realistic and photo-like... a definite improvement to Origins, while  other times it looks  cartoonish and a definite step backwards.

Skies, buildings, Fire and some clothing  (like the robes that the chantry lady is wearing in the Sabastian  trailer), look VERY HD and realistic in every shot I've seen.   Better  than anything in Origins.   But on the other hand, Some  character faces look... not realistic at all in some of the shots I've seen.  Bethany and Isabella have.... low textured (?) faces.  Cartoonish.


I'm wondering why this is so.  Perhaps it's due to those screens/videos originating from different platforms?

Modifié par Yrkoon, 09 janvier 2011 - 08:36 .

[Piecake]

I think the graphics are a step up just because the game is a lot less brown. Urghh, it felt like everything in DAO had brown in it

[Yrkoon]

Oh, no question in my mind at least with regards to the environment graphics. They're much better.

[Nadia]

I think DA2 looks better, it's more colourful and distinctive, but DAO looked alright for me as well. I guess I care less about graphics than about story and playability

[thedaghdha]

Nadia wrote...

I think DA2 looks better, it's more colourful and distinctive, but DAO looked alright for me as well. I guess I care less about graphics than about story and playability

 
 
i agree with you story and playability is important but without decent graphics a game (in my opinion) loses some of its spark 

[Pwnsaur]

Brockololly wrote...

What I love about Skyrim is how people look like people and not piles of melting wax or Botoxed up action figures!

I'm willing to see how DA2 shapes up visually (especially if they're polishing it up now), but if I end up enjoying the game I feel it will be in spite of its graphics and visuals, not because of them. Which is a shame as I really had hoped they'd go more along the Origins path of trying to look realistic as opposed to the kind of fake cartoonish look it seem stuck with now. 

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

DA2: now with more World of Warcraft graphics. For a series that was supposed to be dark and gritty, its too bad they didn't keep the visuals dark and gritty and more on the side of realism, rather than the cartoony WoW look.

I could repeat the above comments, but I think I'll just say 'I agree.'

From what I can see, the environments are vastly improved. A bit too bright and cheery for my tastes but more detailed, varied and textured. I don't think there's much to be argued here.

The GUI is kind of awful. I don't really remember noticing the DAO GUI, but now that I have seen the DA2 trailers I realize that was a very good thing. It seems most people prefer the DAO GUI, so that's a 1-1 tie, so far.

Where people deviate in opinion is the general art style and execution of what clearly seems to be BioWares' attempt to differentiate themselves from the rest of the dark fantasy crowd. Something I read quite commonly during DAO's release was the lack of identity in the art style and how it failed to have a distinct look that set it apart from the genre. I remember reading this and hoping that a possible sequel would further push the limits of what it means to be a truly 'dark' fantasy RPG.

Unfortunately, the decision was made to make everyone look like 'The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills,' and that is definitely an identity... Just not one I'd really like to see adopted into a dark, gritty WRPG. Whether you like your hardened, weathered, and worn warrior types to be fresh from the office of Dr. 90210 or not, it's definitely not verisimilitude.

So 'Will the graphics be a step up from Dragon Age:Origins?' you ask?

The question is, without question, an unequivocal: Sort Of.

[Sordahon1]

slimgrin wrote...

The answer to this would be a resounding no if I were to go by what they've released. The graphics look considerably worse, even if the art design is improved. Up till now I've assumed all I've seen are old builds, and that graphics will improve closer to release date. With just 2 months to go and resolution looking last gen, it doesn't look like it will happen.

Yes, I was fearing the same. I also think it looks worse. The facial animation is better. But the environments and the clothes look grainy and poorly textured. But then again, Graphics aren't everything and I will thoroughly enjoy this game. 

Another gripe I have with DA2 is the combat animation, in DA:O the combat was motion captured. In DA2 the combat looks cheap. As if it was out of a dynasty warriors game. But I can look past that and into the story. 

Hope you enjoy the game!

[_Aine_]

 I think some of it is lighting.   
In general, the lighting looks much improved.  I know in some scenes in DA:O my screenshots looked like CRAP because of the "natural outdoor lighting" which, yes, even in RL is harsh but in DA:O it gave the faces a plastic orange pitted appearance with very "hard" plastic looking skin.   Yet, in some lighting for DA:O the colours were deep, vibrant and gorgeous.  Bight light and 3d tends to not work as well.  Kind of like an aging beauty queen would think she looks best by candlelight I imagine  
In general things like armour etc have the same resolution compressed onto smaller overall area.  Depending on the model of course, the bodies are done in larger pieces (if it is done the way I am used to doing it anyway but I only texture for fun and pocket lint change so take with a grain of salt).  

My big issue with character models in DA;O was unrealistic DARK skin colours.  I really wanted a dark character or two, but couldn't get past the appearance sliders ( makeup looked odd at best.)  

Hard to tell as a whole because all we are seeing is bit pieces and screenshots -- which, honestly, depending on lighting, makes a HUGE difference.  

Modifié par shantisands, 09 janvier 2011 - 03:00 .

[ankuu]

Yrkoon wrote...

Ninotchka wrote...

David Gaider wrote...
To be honest, I'm not sure what you're talking about. The heads are across the board, just as they were in Origins, and personally I always thought the skin looked a little "plastic" in Origins (I know that's something the art team has worked on). Perhaps it doesn't translate well in screenshots, I don't know, but I think the heads overall are improved.

Like some others, I have been underwhelmed by what has been presented thus far. Not because I am opposed to change, but because the changes are clearly less realistic and there seemed to be many DA fans who appreciated this realism and (mistakenly) assumed that it would be carried over into DA2

  The Realism...  That's one of the truly bizzare things I've noticed from  watching the trailers and looking at the screenshots.  Sometimes the stuff from DA2 looks way more realistic and photo-like... a definite improvement to Origins, while  other times it looks  cartoonish and a definite step backwards.

Skies, buildings, Fire and some clothing  (like the robes that the chantry lady is wearing in the Sabastian  trailer), look VERY HD and realistic in every shot I've seen.   Better  than anything in Origins.   But on the other hand, Some  character faces look... not realistic at all in some of the shots I've seen.  Bethany and Isabella have.... low textured (?) faces.  Cartoonish.


I'm wondering why this is so.  Perhaps it's due to those screens/videos originating from different platforms?

Because the pictures we have with Bethany are months old, from an earlier build. And i am guessing that Seb's video is either from the console or a low spec PC.

Modifié par ankuu, 09 janvier 2011 - 03:11 .

[DarthCaine]

Busomjack wrote...

Woohoo!  Here comes the calvary!

David Gaider will mop the floor with these Bioware haters who are trashing Dragon Age II's graphics.

You expect a game developer whose salaray depends on us to say something bad about their game?

[tmp7704]

David Gaider wrote...

To be honest, I'm not sure what you're talking about. The heads are across the board, just as they were in Origins, and personally I always thought the skin looked a little "plastic" in Origins (I know that's something the art team has worked on). Perhaps it doesn't translate well in screenshots, I don't know, but I think the heads overall are improved.

There was some discussion about it in the Sebastian reveal thread. Grabbing couple pictures from it to hopefully show it better:




There's age difference between these two to take into account, but side by side: #1 the face of DA2 character shows considerably less details -- the skin pores, wrinkles, hints of the underlying fat/muscle structure etc, all that is barely if at all there... and #2, there seems to be complete lack of specular highlights in the DA2 screenshot. Not just the skin but also the armour and other elements appear completely dull, and that makes the armour seem like cardboard and the faces without the natural subtle shine the human skill has under the light also feel more artificial than what DAO presented, not less.

The thing is, #1 can be easily chalked up to artistic decision, but #2 would at least feel like some really bizzare technical shortcoming, one which wasn't present in the engine in the iteration used for DAO. So that especially makes me wonder if the trailer we got to see is from recent build and if the game actually does and is going to look like this... or if it's from some really early build and the game looks much different than that

[Blacklash93]

I'm not compalining about the art style. I like it just fine and I love how colorful and distinctive it is. Everything else is just a mess.

I know low-res and undetailed textures when I see them. I know sparse environments when I see them. I know when something looks out of place when I see it, like Sebastian's white hands. I know from various screenshots that the lighting is all over the place. And I can surely tell where ME2's visuals are superior to DA2's (nearly everywhere).

My complaints have nothing to do with the art style. I'm just seeing bad graphics.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 09 janvier 2011 - 03:30 .

[Blacklash93]

Busomjack wrote...

Woohoo!  Here comes the calvary!

David Gaider will mop the floor with these Bioware haters who are trashing Dragon Age II's graphics.

God forbid a few people offer some criticism where it's due.

[Skellimancer]

So far all i have seen is bad lighting, dull textures and laughable animations (rogue).



You don't need to add huge ammounts of polygons to make your games look good, just hire someone who has some artistic talent, Bioware.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Skellimancer wrote...

So far all i have seen is bad lighting, dull textures and laughable animations (rogue).

You don't need to add huge ammounts of polygons to make your games look good, just hire someone who has some artistic talent, Bioware.

I'd say its less a talent issue and more they rushed it and the budget prolly wasn't as big as it should have been.