8324 réponses à ce sujet

[FireEye]

Estelindis wrote...

Thank you, Quaay! The general sentiment of the quote is what I was looking for, particularly the line that all romances "are equally important to the fans who care for them." I have the recollection that we had a source for this in an interview somewhere, not just a PM, but possibly I'm remembering incorrectly.

I remember Jesse Houston's "BioWare values all of the romance options in the Mass Effect series as equally important."  I don't remember an interview.

Geirahod wrote...

I wonder, why Kaidan is the least romanced character? WHYYYYYY? if he's so nice.

I don't understand that....:S

Because the statistics are flawed.  First, not everyone chooses to upload theirs (or they don't have internet access), second, provided this is true, Kaidan is merely the least romanced character in ME2, third, only fifty perfect of players imported their game to begin with (only way to romance Kaidan) and only fifty percent finished, fourth, I'm still not convinced that Priestly wasn't just making it up as he went along, but I'm paranoid and delusional, so you shouldn't listen to me.  

...hmm.

Modifié par FireEye, 30 mars 2011 - 08:34 .

[Estelindis]

FireEye wrote...

I remember Jesse Houston's "BioWare values all of the romance options in the Mass Effect series as equally important."  I don't remember an interview.

Then I was probably wrong about the topic coming up in an interview.  My vague recollection is that a Bioware rep was talking about different fans reactions to various characters, saying that some were less or more popular, but that Bioware creates different characters and romances to suit different tastes, and that each one of them is valid and worth following up on in ME3 as far as Bioware is concerned.  Since this is the general gist of the two quotes posted, though, I'm more than happy with what you've linked.  Thank you very much.  :-)

[jeweledleah]

Quaay wrote...

Estelindis wrote...

Does anyone have a link to that interview (probably with Casey Hudson, but possibly not) where all LIs were said to be equal? I've been looking all over the place, but Casey in particular has done a bajillion interviews and I can't find the specific quote anywhere.

I thought it was a quote from Chris Priestly after someone here pm'd him about "no one likes Kaidan anyway"...I could be wrong though.

In the KAAS, Jade showed how Chris replied "///
Hmmm... I don't remember saying "nobody likes Kaidan" and doubt I ever would have as I do know it is not true. While Kaidan is the least romanced character (before you protest, we have metrics and game data that backs this up), that doesn't mean he is "lesser" than any otehr romance NPC in any way. All of the romances, no matter how popular, are equally important to the fans who care for them. 

I may have said that I do not like romances, as I personally do not. But I do not think I would have put down Kaidan unless it was in jest."

Is that what you were looking for?

I have a very simple explanation why Kaidan is the least romanced character according to their statistics.

1.  according to those same statistics - about 80% of the shepards are male.
2. Liara is a very popular and currently THE only same sex romance option for female shepards.
3. a lot of people didn't come into the franchise untill second game.
4. partly due to horizon, a lot of people who did romance Kaidan - moved on to new loves and some moved on to Garrus, because, hey, he's Garrus.

as for "equaly important" claims - we shall see.

If I say any more about how I'm feeling about the whole thing right now, I'm going to immitate my avatar....again.

[FireEye]

Eh. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Kaidan was the least romanced character in ME2, or even in ME1, but without concrete numbers, any statement like that is useless. The breakdown could be 32%, 33%, 35% (Kaidan, Ashley, Liara) and to most people it probably wouldn't be worth commenting on except to bolster arguments of, "No, really, less people like Kaidan, see?" on technical grounds.

[ADLegend21]

ADLegend21 wrote...

From the "What's Bioware's Excuse for not including the VS in Arrival" Thread.

ADLegend21 wrote...

Which gives me my 6th idea on how they could have been included. Hackett sent the VS to rendevous with the Dr for an update and that's when Kenson and Williams/Alenko were arrested so you have to break the BOTH out of prison. Kenson turns on you both and you two have to fight through the project. Shepard or the VS warns the System about the project and give them a chance to evacuate before activating the project and destroying The relay. After the debrief, in which the VS advocates for the Commanders actions to Hackett, you have a reunion scene with the VS and continuation of the romance should there be one. As much money as bioware made off ME2 and the DLC and Comics they could afford to bring in both VA's and throw us VS fans a bone. I guarantee that would have made Arrival a much better DLC and worth the price of LoTSB instead of 560 points.

quoted to get to the next page.

[Chaos715]

"BioWare values all of the romance options in the Mass Effect series as equally important."

Equally important...really...all they seem to have done is alienate Kaidan and Ashley by basically leaving them out of an entire game.

And as for statistics, what Kaidan romance? I didn't realize there was a Kaidan romance in ME2. I hardly think it's fair to consider Horizon, an email, and Shepard staring longingly at a picture, a romance.

Maybe they do have something big planned for Kaidan and Ashley in ME3 but it may just be too little, too late after all the neglect.

[Estelindis]

FYI, I let the timer count down for my Kaidan-romancing FemShep in Arrival and saw the same movie with Ashley in it. I knew this was going to happen since I already watched all the movies in the DLC's movie folder and there wasn't a second one containing Kaidan. But I thought it was worth verifying just for the sake of it (as, for all I knew, the various FemSheps I was seeing on YouTube could've just saved Ashley).

Regarding the whole "all romances equal" thingy, I've been thinking... And maybe the reason that the relationship between Kaidan and Shepard simply isn't referenced by anyone is that there's really no evidence for pretty much anyone else to see the relationship. Even Shepard herself really only has that email and personal hope/trust in Kaidan. But she still doesn't know how things will work out. Maybe the specific storytelling situation that the devs are going for is one of faith in the face of impossible odds?

[soren7550]

FireEye wrote...

soren7550 wrote...

Regarding the Arrival vision video and it possibly having Kaidan & Ash together, just take comfort in this:
It ain't cannon.

If you ignore the vision, there is no other Kaidan and Ashley to be had.

... and look on the bright side: it's been a while since we've talked about Horizon, hasn't it?  :innocent:

But in the vision, it's a doomed galaxy w/o a Shep to romance Kai-Kai, which is worse than a galaxy with a Shep and an annoyed Kai-Kai.

[FireEye]

soren7550 wrote...

But in the vision, it's a doomed galaxy w/o a Shep to romance Kai-Kai, which is worse than a galaxy with a Shep and an annoyed Kai-Kai.

Eh.  I'll take a doomed galaxy without Shepard and with Kaidan, if that's my choice.  Hell, if I play ME2 straight with the Shep I extrapolated from ME1, there's not a relationship anymore, anyway and Kaidan's still annoyed. 


Poor Kaidan. 

Chaos715 wrote...

Maybe they do have something big planned for Kaidan and Ashley in ME3 but it may just be too little, too late after all the neglect.

Pretty much so in my case, although I also have major dissatisfaction over the Reapers/Protheans story arc, the combat changes, and the whole Cerberus thing.  Kaidan and Ashley being outright ignored throughout ME2 was just the snow on the tip of the iceburg.

Estelindis wrote...

Regarding the whole "all romances equal" thingy, I've been thinking... And maybe the reason that the relationship between Kaidan and Shepard simply isn't referenced by anyone is that there's really no evidence for pretty much anyone else to see the relationship. Even Shepard herself really only has that email and personal hope/trust in Kaidan. But she still doesn't know how things will work out. Maybe the specific storytelling situation that the devs are going for is one of faith in the face of impossible odds?

If so, there's no real indictation either way.  If that's what they meant, then it's poor writing along the same lines of the Cerberus railroading: it could have been done well, if they hadn't written Shepard as going that way without player input and forcing the player rather than the character (and in this case, with no input to the player that that's what's going on).  At the very least, there could have been better dialogue with Joker, who was implied to already know about the relationship back during ME1.

[jeweledleah]

thing is they didn't have to acknowledge the romances in order to acknowledge the characters (although a very non regulation hug on horizon and in some cases - "I loved you" kinda let THAT cat out of the bag) Kaidan and Ashley are important now yes? they are doing something covert and crucial for Anderson, yes? and yet shadow broker has no information on them? even though he has information on Hackett, TIM, Anderson etc?
Shepards in romance get a letter, Shepards in friendship - get nothing at all.
gah, starting to get angry again, so I'm going to stop now - in short, so far we've yet to see the proof of aforementioned equal importance for all romances. they say, they are saving it for ME3. we'll see.
Liara is one of the few people that actually DOES know about your relationship, since you kinda speak to her about it even in ME1, and yet, she says nothing comparable to the mentions she makes of other LI's (and how does she know about them exactly?)

[Estelindis]

You both raise good points. I guess I'm just trying to see positive sides to the situation we're in, which is exerting a certain bias over my analysis.

Quick timeline question: does anyone think it's strange that Miranda's the same age as Kaidan, even though he's one of the first human biotics? I've never been entirely sure how Miri's dad managed to add biotic ability to her genetic makeup considering that no one had yet found a reliable way to make humans biotic (i.e. a method that didn't result in cancer for most). From what Kaidan said, the whole area was hugely experimental at the time when his mother was carrying him. It doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.

[DWH1982]

Estelindis wrote...

You both raise good points. I guess I'm just trying to see positive sides to the situation we're in, which is exerting a certain bias over my analysis.

Quick timeline question: does anyone think it's strange that Miranda's the same age as Kaidan, even though he's one of the first human biotics? I've never been entirely sure how Miri's dad managed to add biotic ability to her genetic makeup considering that no one had yet found a reliable way to make humans biotic (i.e. a method that didn't result in cancer for most). From what Kaidan said, the whole area was hugely experimental at the time when his mother was carrying him. It doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.

Everyone thinks that's an oversight by the writers. I'm not convinced.

We know her father was head of a larger corporation.  And, if I'm not mistaken, Miranda's Shadow Broker dossier has her looking up info on Eldfell-Ashland.

So, I'm thinking her father was either the Eldfell or Ashland part of Eldfell-Ashland.  And, Eldfell-Ashland, of course, is an energy company that mines element zero...

Basically, I'm thinking that Eldfell-Ashland's bigwigs new about element zero exposure before everyone else, and figured out (perhaps with Cerberus' help) how to make biotics fairly early on. 

[FireEye]

Estelindis wrote...

Quick timeline question: does anyone think it's strange that Miranda's the same age as Kaidan, even though he's one of the first human biotics? I've never been entirely sure how Miri's dad managed to add biotic ability to her genetic makeup considering that no one had yet found a reliable way to make humans biotic (i.e. a method that didn't result in cancer for most). From what Kaidan said, the whole area was hugely experimental at the time when his mother was carrying him. It doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.

Honestly, I think it's a mistake.  From what I remember, Kaidan was from the very first known batch of human eezo exposures: the Singapore crash.  This was before aliens were known, let alone biotics.  Human biotics weren't even known of for at least eight years after first contact, according to one of the novels.

If Miranda's 35, she was either exposed in the same crash (yet kept by her father despite the risks and managed to be in the 10% biotic bracket), she was popped out of a tube fully grown the same as Grunt and it's only her body that is technically in the range of a 35 year old human female, or she was somehow surgically implanted after biotics were discovered (after she was 10-15).  They're all possible, but quite taxing on my suspension of disbelief.

Really?  It's best not to think or care about the particulars too much.  I did, and look what happened to me. 

[Estelindis]

Of course you're quite right, FireEye! Kaidan was born in 2151, but the First Contact War didn't even happen until 2157. Humans wouldn't even have known of the existence of biotics, in order to genetically engineer them.

This being the case, DWH1982, did Cerberus even exist when Miranda was gengineered? (Ignoring for the moment the issue raised in the previous paragraph).

All the all, it does look like a timeline mistake. Thanks for the responses!

[FireEye]

DWH1982 wrote...

Basically, I'm thinking that Eldfell-Ashland's bigwigs new about element zero exposure before everyone else, and figured out (perhaps with Cerberus' help) how to make biotics fairly early on. 

Except Cerberus didn't exist yet.  According to Kaidan, "It's only been twenty-eight years since First Contact," and Cerberus allegedly came about in retaliation of that.  Her father or his company could have had Prothean tech pointing towards biotics and maybe in that case, Kaidan's exposure wasn't an accident, but I honestly don't buy it, especially in light of the other problematic ages in the ME2 squad. 

[Estelindis]

FireEye wrote...
I honestly don't buy it, especially in light of the other problematic ages in the ME2 squad. 

I hesitate to ask... but whose ages would those be?

[FireEye]

Grunt is 22, Mordin is 50, Samara is "600 human years", whatever that means, and Zaeed is 40.

Except that Grunt was just born, salarians have a ~40 year lifespan, Samara's stories and hunting Morinth for 400 years seem to place her quite a bit higher than 600 (although maybe she could inch by), and, uh... well... Zaeed has a really problematic history for only being 40, particularly if it involves the Blue Suns.

And Kaidan is 35 instead of 34, but at least in his case you could say he had a birthday during the hunt for Saren or while Shep was jaunting around after the Collectors before Horizon. 

Modifié par FireEye, 31 mars 2011 - 02:38 .

[Estelindis]

Ah yes, I forgot about the strange ages of Grunt, Mordin and Zaeed! Eep. I don't think Samara's age is totally impossible, though I expected her to be nearer 700-800.

Like yourself, though, I assume Kaidan's birthday comes earlier than Shepard's. It's a nice little touch. :-)

[Geirahod]

FireEye wrote...

Geirahod wrote...

I wonder, why Kaidan is the least romanced character? WHYYYYYY? if he's so nice.

I don't understand that....:S

Because the statistics are flawed.  First, not everyone chooses to upload theirs (or they don't have internet access), second, provided this is true, Kaidan is merely the least romanced character in ME2, third, only fifty perfect of players imported their game to begin with (only way to romance Kaidan) and only fifty percent finished, fourth, I'm still not convinced that Priestly wasn't just making it up as he went along, but I'm paranoid and delusional, so you shouldn't listen to me.  

...hmm.
*Delicious Kaidan pic snip*

Well, I hate "Kaidan/Ashley" Haters. ¬_¬
They are the most interesting characters of the entire game so far (they and the original squad; Garrus, Wrex, Tali and Liara (no offense to those who like the others characters in ME2), but for me the rest just are the confetti in the birthday party (the only new squadmates that I like are Thane, Grunt, Samara, Mordin, Kasumi and Legion, but they are part of the confetti).

Modifié par Geirahod, 31 mars 2011 - 03:34 .

[jeweledleah]

FireEye wrote...

DWH1982 wrote...

Basically, I'm thinking that Eldfell-Ashland's bigwigs new about element zero exposure before everyone else, and figured out (perhaps with Cerberus' help) how to make biotics fairly early on. 

Except Cerberus didn't exist yet.  According to Kaidan, "It's only been twenty-eight years since First Contact," and Cerberus allegedly came about in retaliation of that.  Her father or his company could have had Prothean tech pointing towards biotics and maybe in that case, Kaidan's exposure wasn't an accident, but I honestly don't buy it, especially in light of the other problematic ages in the ME2 squad. 

could Miranda's father be head of Conatix though?  or somehow involved with them?  becasue that could explain some of it, after all they experimented with eezo exposures long before Baat and Kaidan's experiences, they saw the potential even then - with Baat they were merely able to get "experts" to help out.  

edited to add.

Kaidna/Ash haters make me go
HULK SMASH!!!

Modifié par jeweledleah, 31 mars 2011 - 03:38 .

[sagefic]

cleaning up old files and found something nice. i'll just leave it... here.

[DragonRose]

Question to anyone who's been around for awhile-What did we know of Kaidan before ME1 came out? I only got into Mass Effect a couple of months ago, the only Bioware game I've had to wait for was DA2. All the speculation about companions and love interests and such just kind of made me wonder what it was like in the Mass Effect fandom. And after the disappointment known as "Arrival," I've kind of been craving something new Kaidan-wise.

[FireEye]

jeweledleah wrote...

could Miranda's father be head of Conatix though?  or somehow involved with them?  becasue that could explain some of it, after all they experimented with eezo exposures long before Baat and Kaidan's experiences, they saw the potential even then - with Baat they were merely able to get "experts" to help out.  

According to Kaidan (who, admittedly, may not be in the know), he only suspects someone (not necessarily Conatix) only started experimenting with exposures around the 2160-something (presumably because there would have been a spike in them, since Kaidan doesn't seem the type to conjure conspiracy theories without considering the angles) once someone realized that eezo = biotics.  I also got the impression that Conatix and BAaT didn't even want experts at first, which is why they recruited mercs all secret-like when they started having trouble.

It can be written around, I simply suspect someone wasn't thinking when tossing out the characters histories and ages.  Although, I admit, I'm bored of the secret histories and conspiracies around every corner.  XD

Also, come to think of it, Conatix folded, so if Miranda's father was the head of it, he probably wouldn't be as rich as he (supposedly) still is. 

DragonRose wrote...

Question to anyone who's been around for awhile-What did we know of Kaidan before ME1 came out? I only got into Mass Effect a couple of months ago, the only Bioware game I've had to wait for was DA2. All the speculation about companions and love interests and such just kind of made me wonder what it was like in the Mass Effect fandom. And after the disappointment known as "Arrival," I've kind of been craving something new Kaidan-wise.

I wasn't here back then, but from what I can tell skimming the old boards, there was quite a bit of information released while ME1 was still in development.  Enough, at least, so that people were already hating Kaidan for being having Carth's voice. 

It was known he was a LI, and I'm pretty sure they released stills and footage and things.  Ashley got the full write-up of a profile and service record, though.

[DragonRose]

Weird that people dislike him for having Carth's voice. I like Raphael Sbarge's voice. It's very.... soothing, for lack of a better term.

[DragonRose]

Weird that people dislike him for having Carth's voice. I like Raphael Sbarge's voice. It's very.... soothing, for lack of a better term.