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[Star]

Jhosephine wrote...

Star58 wrote...

There were a number of touches I'd like to see brought into ME3 from the DA series.   Or  in the final Questionning Beliefs conversation with Fen when he tells you that  "nothing could be worse than the thought of living without you."  I want THIS kind of thing and THIS kind of  conversation with Kaidan!   

Fenris never tells Hawke he loves her though, or does he? My mind is a bit fuzzy today. But I agree, the multiple kisses, the touches, the way he looked at her, the comments from other party members...I would love to see that in ME3 as well. That last conversation where Fenris really worries about Hawke's fate was just great...he would walk into the depths of hell with her and then to seal it with a kiss in front of everybody was just a real swoon worthy moment. I would love for more romantic detail before the epic battle...just as I would have loved some at the end of ME1. Kaidan smiles looking up to Shepard but damn, I wanted to hug the man lol And yes I realise ME has regs whereas DA2 has not...but in ME3 anything goes where I'm concerned...let the sparkes fly!

Sparks! That's really makes a difference in game.  In so many ways (other than Shep's lame convo choices), ME 2 had such potential -- your LI hugging you and saying he "loved" you..... ARGH! 

I think that one of the things that the DA series has brought home to me is how satisfying the little romance details are.  Yes, the ME1 love scene was awesome but the devil is in the details.  Of course I really want it all -- details and an amazing love scene.  And Kaidan   really is the type of character who could pull it off.  In, fact, the little things -- a meaningful look, reaching out to quickly touch Shep's hand, arm or face - that type of thing, would be very much in character and convey a kind of on-going smoldering....and certainly something that would be likely given the regs. 

And no Fenris doesn't actually tell Hawke he loves her but he says it all but directly.  The convo I referred to previously wasn't the final one.  Or in before the final battle, one of the choices is to ask if one heard him correctly and he says, "Let me make it perfectly clear" before he kisses Hawke passionately.   *sigh*  And when I saw that I thought...Kaidan!!!!

edit for top of page picture.... a personal favorite (thanks Jho!)

Modifié par Star58, 13 avril 2011 - 05:50 .

[MICHELLE7]

Jhosephine wrote...

I really do hope partybanters returns though...some of the best dialogues in DA2 happened between partymembers. I can see Garrus resenting Kaidan for Horizon and wanting to confront him or at least let him know what he thinks about him. Or Kaidan talking to Jack, asking questions....etc etc

The Kaidan/Jack dynamic intrigues me the most. He keeps it all in under control...she lets it all out and yet both of them are powerful biotics. Please don't shoot me but if it were not for Shep I think Kaidan and Jack would make an interesting couple...they have so much in common.

[MICHELLE7]

Star58 wrote...

  *sigh*  And when I saw that I thought...Kaidan!!!!

Interesting that we all come back to Kaidan...I don't think Bioware has made a better LI since they created him.

[Star]

MICHELLE7 wrote...

Star58 wrote...

  *sigh*  And when I saw that I thought...Kaidan!!!!

Interesting that we all come back to Kaidan...I don't think Bioware has made a better LI since they created him.

Isn't it?  Perhaps because the story and setting are more like our own (vs. DAs fantasy sword and sorcery) and therefore Kaidan not only looks like someone you'd actually meet but is really part of our universe in the same way.  More accessible!

[irJessica]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Lehna wrote...

Who romanced Garrus in ME2? I would really like to see Kaidan jealous in ME3.

Yeah, I totally romanced Garrus.

I imagine my Shep spent many hours pacing back and forth in her loft, rehearsing what she was going to say about Horizon the next time she saw Kaidan. If it were possible to drunk-dial with an ansible, I'm pretty sure she would have; probably after a long night of cocktails with Kasumi in the Port Observation Lounge. (Sample conversation: "And then... get this... then he sends me an email, saying he 'doesn't know who either of us is anymore.' Argh!")

The letter was good and touching and all, but it just wasn't enough. I died, damnit. Now I'm trying to break free from an evil organization who spent 4 billion creds on me, and you don't even want to help? I didn't expect you to come with me, but would a simple "Ok, I'll try to trust you for now." have been so hard? 

(Had to watch Horizon again to get myself back into character. Yep. Still mad about it. Less mad, but still mad.)

If you want to read about all my imaginary video game emotional pain, I wrote a long blog about my ME1&2 romantic arc. I am not looking foreword to the choice I'll have to make in ME3, but Kaidan still makes my heart skip a beat, damn him.

If you just want some nostalgic Kaidan Jealousy, here's a cute video about the ME1 Triangle. (Skip about halfway through if you don't need the setup.) 

I actually can't stop giggling. 

[Jhourney]

Star58 wrote...

.... And when I saw that I thought...Kaidan!!!!

hahah same here, I kept going through DA2 like I was shopping for ME3 "Oh, I'll take that." "Oh do want!"..."Now that's hot"

Hmm...chocolatehand Kaidan, still not doing it for me lol

[Star]

Jhosephine wrote...

Star58 wrote...

.... And when I saw that I thought...Kaidan!!!!

hahah same here, I kept going through DA2 like I was shopping for ME3 "Oh, I'll take that." "Oh do want!"..."Now that's hot"

rofl!  Oh dear, now I'm envisioning the Kaidan-doll shopping list!

hmm...chocolatehand Kaidan, still not doing it for me lol

Well, my personal favorite is Kaidan in his dress blues but  I enjoy Chocohand Kaidan.

Modifié par Star58, 13 avril 2011 - 06:13 .

[Shenzi]

Star58 wrote...

Jhosephine wrote...

Star58 wrote...

.... And when I saw that I thought...Kaidan!!!!

hahah same here, I kept going through DA2 like I was shopping for ME3 "Oh, I'll take that." "Oh do want!"..."Now that's hot"

rofl!  Oh dear, now I'm envisioning the Kaidan-doll shopping list!

hmm...chocolatehand Kaidan, still not doing it for me lol

Well, my personal favorite is Kaidan in his dress blues but  I enjoy Chocohand Kaidan.

You weren't the only one picturing the shopping list.  

And Kaidan in his dress blues?  Add it to the shopping list for ME3.

[MICHELLE7]

Star58 wrote...

MICHELLE7 wrote...

Star58 wrote...

  *sigh*  And when I saw that I thought...Kaidan!!!!

Interesting that we all come back to Kaidan...I don't think Bioware has made a better LI since they created him.

Isn't it?  Perhaps because the story and setting are more like our own (vs. DAs fantasy sword and sorcery) and therefore Kaidan not only looks like someone you'd actually meet but is really part of our universe in the same way.  More accessible!

I admit the setting appeals to me more but I think Kaidan himself was written in such a way that they hit it out of the ballpark with his character. His personality is perfect but then they had to go a make him eye-candy as well.

Most other characters in the Bioware universes have had some good points but they've had things that detracted as well (like Alistair's whining moodiness over losing Duncan...hey, my family died) or they are physically unappealing (forgive me for being shallow). Kaidan seems perfect...just hope they don't change him too much in ME3.

[MICHELLE7]

Jhosephine wrote...


Hmm...chocolatehand Kaidan, still not doing it for me lol

I find that particular picture kind of disturbing...but then again perhaps that's just me.

[MICHELLE7]

Star58 wrote...



Well, my personal favorite is Kaidan in his dress blues but  I enjoy Chocohand Kaidan.

:lol::lol:Sounds like some sort of easter bunny candy.

[meonlyred]

MICHELLE7 wrote...

Star58 wrote...

  *sigh*  And when I saw that I thought...Kaidan!!!!

Interesting that we all come back to Kaidan...I don't think Bioware has made a better LI since they created him.

I like most of the LI but all for different reasons. Kaidan is my mature adult LI. Alistair is my giggling sweetheart LI. Anders is my 'we're going to burn in hell but hey I got you babe' LI. But it does always come back to Kaidan.

[Star]

MICHELLE7 wrote...

Jhosephine wrote...


Hmm...chocolatehand Kaidan, still not doing it for me lol

I find that particular picture kind of disturbing...but then again perhaps that's just me.

lol...it's not for everyone.  I think Jho made it  at Sesh's request as I recall after a group of us had been joking about eye candy.... ;

And yes, Kaidan is quite a perfect package of personality, skills and (yes, you're forgive...I'm right beside you here) looks!

Modifié par Star58, 13 avril 2011 - 06:23 .

[M-Sinistrari]

MICHELLE7 wrote...

I admit the setting appeals to me more but I think Kaidan himself was written in such a way that they hit it out of the ballpark with his character. His personality is perfect but then they had to go a make him eye-candy as well.

Most other characters in the Bioware universes have had some good points but they've had things that detracted as well (like Alistair's whining moodiness over losing Duncan...hey, my family died) or they are physically unappealing (forgive me for being shallow). Kaidan seems perfect...just hope they don't change him too much in ME3.

Having skimmed through the Boring/Forgettable/Worthless character thread, I find it interesting that some act like being normal/stable is some sort of horrific thing.  Granted that's the part of me that's taken too many psych classes, but since we all do put parts of ourselves into the game for perspective and such, I wonder why normalcy's concidered such a bad thing.

The way Kaidan and even Jacob are written, if they were real they'd be exactly the sort I would be interested in if I were single.  But then I did go through my phases for the Bad Boy types, the Moody Angsty types and all and once that initial 'oooh fascinating' glamour wears off, they do end up with some pretty intensive issues that are detrimental.  Even going with the rationale of 'I can change them!', it never works.

I wonder how much of the 'he's boooring/too normal' argument is some form of projection from those who concider themselves 'nice guys' and they somehow have thier mindset threatened with a character written truly normal that has a great amount of appeal to women yet they themselves don't have that appeal?

I probably could get a hell of a psych paper out of this, pity I've got all mine done for the term.

[tehprincessJ]

Squeee! My copy of gameinformer just arrived. <3333

ETA:

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

If you just want some nostalgic Kaidan Jealousy, here's a cute video about the ME1 Triangle. (Skip about halfway through if you don't need the setup.) 

My god, that's one of my old vids. Ack is the quality terrible.

Modifié par tehprincessJ, 13 avril 2011 - 06:59 .

[MICHELLE7]

M-Sinistrari wrote...

MICHELLE7 wrote...

I admit the setting appeals to me more but I think Kaidan himself was written in such a way that they hit it out of the ballpark with his character. His personality is perfect but then they had to go a make him eye-candy as well.

Most other characters in the Bioware universes have had some good points but they've had things that detracted as well (like Alistair's whining moodiness over losing Duncan...hey, my family died) or they are physically unappealing (forgive me for being shallow). Kaidan seems perfect...just hope they don't change him too much in ME3.

Having skimmed through the Boring/Forgettable/Worthless character thread, I find it interesting that some act like being normal/stable is some sort of horrific thing.  Granted that's the part of me that's taken too many psych classes, but since we all do put parts of ourselves into the game for perspective and such, I wonder why normalcy's concidered such a bad thing.

The way Kaidan and even Jacob are written, if they were real they'd be exactly the sort I would be interested in if I were single.  But then I did go through my phases for the Bad Boy types, the Moody Angsty types and all and once that initial 'oooh fascinating' glamour wears off, they do end up with some pretty intensive issues that are detrimental.  Even going with the rationale of 'I can change them!', it never works.

I wonder how much of the 'he's boooring/too normal' argument is some form of projection from those who concider themselves 'nice guys' and they somehow have thier mindset threatened with a character written truly normal that has a great amount of appeal to women yet they themselves don't have that appeal?

I probably could get a hell of a psych paper out of this, pity I've got all mine done for the term.

There have been some Kaidan haters that have honestly admitted it (I have to respect them for being honest) that the only reason they hated Kaidan was his voice...they associated it with Carth Onasi because of Sbarge and jump to the conclusion that they must be just alike.

I think Kaidan is a nice guy and pretty much a stable guy but I don't consider him a typical nice guy...He's got a lot of edge.

The stuff with Vyrnnus...the "I will destroy you"...he's got little things here and there that say he's got a temper and if you really got on his bad side and pushed the wrong buttons like Vyrnnus you might wind up dead so for me at least I think there is a side of danger. He's kinda like the guy that had every reason in the world to turn out bad ( and dark) but forced himself to do the right thing...yet just underneath the surface there lingers that nagging feeling of "what if".

[Star]

M-Sinistrari wrote...

MICHELLE7 wrote...

I admit the setting appeals to me more but I think Kaidan himself was written in such a way that they hit it out of the ballpark with his character. His personality is perfect but then they had to go a make him eye-candy as well.

Having skimmed through the Boring/Forgettable/Worthless character thread, I find it interesting that some act like being normal/stable is some sort of horrific thing.  Granted that's the part of me that's taken too many psych classes, but since we all do put parts of ourselves into the game for perspective and such, I wonder why normalcy's concidered such a bad thing.

The way Kaidan and even Jacob are written, if they were real they'd be exactly the sort I would be interested in if I were single.  But then I did go through my phases for the Bad Boy types, the Moody Angsty types and all and once that initial 'oooh fascinating' glamour wears off, they do end up with some pretty intensive issues that are detrimental.  Even going with the rationale of 'I can change them!', it never works.

Well, I think for one thing, we're drawn to hero stories and characters. These stories all have similar features...and sidekicks.  Bioware is also pretty open about the fact that their game formula is based upon Joseph Campbell's hero's path. 

As to psychology, bynature,  people tend to look for what's stimulating and exciting, particularly when we're younger.  That's demonstrated over and over again by observation and other kinds of research.  Neuroscience for example, is showing more and more how our neural pathways are stimulated and developed by things that are interesting, exciting, motivating.   As to projection - as someone in the psychology business I would never discount it, but I think it's also as much that our youth-oriented culture tends to look at big, dramatic, bad-boy, dramatic actions as being cool.  And it's good to be cool, right?   I know I'm not thinking of practical life and coping skills when playing a videogame!   It's an escape after all.  Practical choice is for  RL....          .

@ M-Sin: whoops -- I think your post prompted an academic moment for me!  Not trying to lecture!


I liked most of the ME characters for a variety of reasons. Certainly Kaidan appealed to most as an LI -- and as you say, we do put parts of ourselves into the game at times -- so probably my own outlook had an impact on that. At the same, time I think that it was as much if not more that the other romances didn't feel compelling.  I've done most romances in most of BW's other games and enjoyed them all.  These just didn't grab me; it felt as though all the little touches that we've been talking about were missing.  So in someways it not only felt more logical but more satisfying to just stay faithful to Kaidan.

Modifié par Star58, 13 avril 2011 - 07:19 .

[M-Sinistrari]

MICHELLE7 wrote...

There have been some Kaidan haters that have honestly admitted it (I have to respect them for being honest) that the only reason they hated Kaidan was his voice...they associated it with Carth Onasi because of Sbarge and jump to the conclusion that they must be just alike.

I think Kaidan is a nice guy and pretty much a stable guy but I don't consider him a typical nice guy...He's got a lot of edge.

The stuff with Vyrnnus...the "I will destroy you"...he's got little things here and there that say he's got a temper and if you really got on his bad side and pushed the wrong buttons like Vyrnnus you might wind up dead so for me at least I think there is a side of danger. He's kinda like the guy that had every reason in the world to turn out bad ( and dark) but forced himself to do the right thing...yet just underneath the surface there lingers that nagging feeling of "what if".

My fiance was one of those who initially heard the voice and contracted Carthitis.  However with time and patience it is curable.

Mostly what I was thinking about the 'nice guy' paradigm from the player aspect is in line with the one from the Heartless B*tches website.  The type of guy who bewails women don't like him because he's a 'nice guy' and only want jerks and don't see that they're manifesting personality aspects that are a turnoff.

That sort of guy, I believe, would likely look at the nice/normal Kaidan and his appeal as a threat to thier perspective that the non-normal type is what appeals to women so they act out as they can by decrying him in all the ways we've seen for a long while.

Perhaps there very well is that element of danger with Kaidan as you state, still doesn't change that he's still a refreshing breath of normalcy that's often missing in a RPG character.

[Selenora]

Just out for curiosity.....if the previous Kaidan support threads hadnt being closed, how many pages would be there?

[M-Sinistrari]

Star58 wrote...


Well, I think for one thing, we're drawn to hero stories and characters. These stories all have similar features...and sidekicks.  Bioware is also pretty open about the fact that their game formula is based upon Joseph Campbell's hero's path. 

As to psychology, bynature,  people tend to look for what's stimulating and exciting, particularly when we're younger.  That's demonstrated over and over again by observation and other kinds of research.  Neuroscience for example, is showing more and more how our neural pathways are stimulated and developed by things that are interesting, exciting, motivating.   As to projection - as someone in the psychology business I would never discount it, but I think it's also as much that our youth-oriented culture tends to look at big, dramatic, bad-boy, dramatic actions as being cool.  And it's good to be cool, right?   I know I'm not thinking of practical life and coping skills when playing a videogame!   It's an escape after all.  Practical choice is for  RL....          .

@ M-Sin: whoops -- I think your post prompted an academic moment for me!  Not trying to lecture!


I liked most of the ME characters for a variety of reasons. Certainly Kaidan appealed to most as an LI -- and as you say, we do put parts of ourselves into the game at times -- so probably my own outlook had an impact on that. At the same, time I think that it was as much if not more that the other romances didn't feel compelling.  I've done most romances in most of BW's other games and enjoyed them all.  These just didn't grab me; it felt as though all the little touches that we've been talking about were missing.  So in someways it not only felt more logical but more satisfying to just stay faithful to Kaidan.

As much as we all get the lecture in each psych class about self diagnosing, I ended up diagnosing video game characters.  The thought of Jack in cognitive therapy still makes me chuckle, as does the amount of mood stabilizers the Normandy would have to carry.

I do think your point about the projection of youth orientation thinking the bad boy is cool is likely the focal point since I don't think there's been any hard numbers as to age of gamer, so it does fit with the concept of some having with normal is boring.  They've just not gotten to the 'been there, done that, it was overrated' that some of us are in.

I've yet (still...) to play KOTOR, but I've done the romances in Jade Empire, DA:O, and both MEs and while I enjoyed Sky, Alistar and Zev, Kaidan just had that lasting appeal that really sticks with me.  As honked off as I was about Horizon, the thought of cheating never crossed my mind, though part of that was mostly wanting to have a chance to get off a cathartic yellfest off first.

[Feena.c]

The first time I played Horizon I thought we HAD broken up and went to talk to Garrus to start that romance. Then I got a letter from Kaiden(and found out from the internetz)that there was still hope for Kaiden and Shep in ME3, so I never romanced Garrus and stuck with Kaiden. So glad I did, I still love him. Even though I'm still mad at him and think his letter stunk.

[Star]

M-Sinistrari wrote...

Star58 wrote...

   As to projection - as someone in the psychology business I would never discount it, but I think it's also as much that our youth-oriented culture tends to look at big, dramatic, bad-boy, dramatic actions as being cool.  And it's good to be cool, right?   I know I'm not thinking of practical life and coping skills when playing a videogame!   It's an escape after all.  Practical choice is for  RL....          .

@ M-Sin: whoops -- I think your post prompted an academic moment for me!  Not trying to lecture!

As much as we all get the lecture in each psych class about self diagnosing, I ended up diagnosing video game characters.  The thought of Jack in cognitive therapy still makes me chuckle, as does the amount of mood stabilizers the Normandy would have to carry.

I do think your point about the projection of youth orientation thinking the bad boy is cool is likely the focal point since I don't think there's been any hard numbers as to age of gamer, so it does fit with the concept of some having with normal is boring.  They've just not gotten to the 'been there, done that, it was overrated' that some of us are in.

I've yet (still...) to play KOTOR, but I've done the romances in Jade Empire, DA:O, and both MEs and while I enjoyed Sky, Alistar and Zev, Kaidan just had that lasting appeal that really sticks with me.  As honked off as I was about Horizon, the thought of cheating never crossed my mind, though part of that was mostly wanting to have a chance to get off a cathartic yellfest off first.

ROFL re your comment on self-diagnosis.   Reminds me of my psychopathology class a few years ago....

I keep trying to imagine Jack in a stress-relief/mindfulness training class (thanks for that image!)

Gotta agree on Kaidan -- and my Tris Shepard has every intention of expressing herself emphatically before any making up is done!

Modifié par Star58, 13 avril 2011 - 08:09 .

[MizzNaaa]

My Jennifer would probably try to tell him how she felt when he left, but she's not going to be able to because Commander Shepard or not, thinking about the past, and talking about it out loud with Kaidan in the same room would make her bawl like a baby...not very good for Fracking Commander Shepard persona...

[syllogi]

Selenora wrote...

Just out for curiosity.....if the previous Kaidan support threads hadnt being closed, how many pages would be there?

The first thread was 175 pages, and the second was 2541.  So added to this one, that's very close to 3000 pages of Kaidan love over the past year or so.  Pretty impressive!  

[Jenova65]

Anders sucks, Fenris rules and Kaidan kicks both their asses.... Especially on the Kaidan thread!
There.
Balance redressed *Runs off giggling*

Plus Kaidan would hate Anders, just sayin'.............. He wouldn't buy the freedom fighter bit, he would lump Anders with Cerberus, don't you think?