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[AkodoRyu]

I believe there's a thread for that... Let's get back on a topic concerning Kaidan.

[JaerWolfe]

Just watched the interview with Casey Hudson. The thing that jumped the most for me was his talk of the romances and then how they would evolve over a three game arch...if that person hadn't been there in the second, if there had been someone else, how that would flow in the third. I had always presumed that the reason the VS was left out of ME2 was because they weren't fan favorites being the normal humans that Ash and Kaidan are and that we were being told they were important to ME3 was basically to get us to stop whining and shut up.
Based on that interview and the subtext in voice and face in Casey Hudson, I may have been wrong and owe an apology. It gives me something more to consider if the trilogy was planned not just on the plot of stopping the Reapers, but the character archs as well, specifically Ash and Kaidan. Liara, to an extent as well, but LotSB had really wrapped up her major plot lines. Not her character development, but the plot lines for her character, if that makes sense.

[Annihilator27]

This is how Kaiden gets through on the dark days.

[AkodoRyu]

JaerWolfe wrote...

Just watched the interview with Casey Hudson. (...)

Jaer, I must say I was surprised with the topic he choose to talk about. I've always thought romances are just, well, "sidequests". Either they are important to CHud or the story, or they are easy example to talk about.

Well, I'm hopeful ;]

Modifié par AkodoRyu, 26 avril 2011 - 06:28 .

[syllogi]

JaerWolfe wrote...

Just watched the interview with Casey Hudson. The thing that jumped the most for me was his talk of the romances and then how they would evolve over a three game arch...if that person hadn't been there in the second, if there had been someone else, how that would flow in the third. I had always presumed that the reason the VS was left out of ME2 was because they weren't fan favorites being the normal humans that Ash and Kaidan are and that we were being told they were important to ME3 was basically to get us to stop whining and shut up.
Based on that interview and the subtext in voice and face in Casey Hudson, I may have been wrong and owe an apology. It gives me something more to consider if the trilogy was planned not just on the plot of stopping the Reapers, but the character archs as well, specifically Ash and Kaidan. Liara, to an extent as well, but LotSB had really wrapped up her major plot lines. Not her character development, but the plot lines for her character, if that makes sense.

I really hope this is what was planned all along.  I just don't think they planned the whole Horizon thing very well, or at least anticipated the response to it.  I know I felt pretty disenfranchised, upset, and confused, which I don't think
was their desired reaction.  If there's a real, satisfying conclusion to the character's storylines, then it will have been worth it.  I'll still consider ME2 the lonely, sad, and confusing part of my Shepard's trilogy.

[Chewin]

TeenZombie wrote...
I'll still consider ME2 the lonely, sad, and confusing part of my Shepard's trilogy.

Isn't it supposed to be something like that or?

[JaerWolfe]

@AkodoRyu...oddly enough, it made me more hopeful as well. I considered it the same way...romances were just 'sidequests' optional, but just flavor added. The LI side quest instead of/similar to finding Wrex's family armor or Garrus and the doctor he chased down.
I'm trying to decide if it was an easy example, the romances, to talk about. Why he went there instead of the Reapers. Instead of building up the final combat, he went to character. I'm still thinking.
@TeenZombie...I wonder if sometimes Horizon wasn't a bit of myopia on the part of the devs. Meaning, they knew what was planned for the VS in ME3 and based on that handwaved Horizon knowing that it would be 'fixed' in ME3. That doesn't excuse what was a crappy bit of writing by any means. The same results could have been achieved a lot better.

[Fault Girl]

If they intended never to really feature the VS in ME2, I just feel annoyed that they did such a bad job with it. Similar dialouge etc. If it was intended only for a 5 minute appearance I thought they would have done a more indepth job to "placate" VS fans.?

Just replaying ME2 and just done Horizon, it doesn't bother me too much now but when I first play it I nearly turned into the Hulk.

[syllogi]

Chewin3 wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...
I'll still consider ME2 the lonely, sad, and confusing part of my Shepard's trilogy.

Isn't it supposed to be something like that or?

I honestly think a lot of people think that Shepard is on top of the world at the end of ME2, judging from some of the posts I see.  They don't want to give up their ship, their relationship with Cerberus, or any of the squad they collected, because apparently everything is just so awesome.  I'm admittedly a Systems Alliance supporter (until evidence emerges that they are EVIL, which will probably happen in ME3), so I'm biased, but I see Shepard's position at the end of the game as really depressing (especially after Arrival, of course, but even before that).

[Fiery Phoenix]

I'm generally in agreement with TZ on this. Well said, ma'am.

In the interview, it seemed like Casey wanted to say something. He sounded reluctant as if he was carefully choosing his words, especially towards the end. If anything, it does sound like the whole thing was planned out basically from the get-go.

[JaerWolfe]

TeenZombie wrote...
I honestly think a lot of people think that Shepard is on top of the world at the end of ME2, judging from some of the posts I see. They don't want to give up their ship, their relationship with Cerberus, or any of the squad they collected, because apparently everything is just so awesome. I'm admittedly a Systems Alliance supporter (until evidence emerges that they are EVIL, which will probably happen in ME3), so I'm biased, but I see Shepard's position at the end of the game as really depressing (especially after Arrival, of course, but even before that).

I know I talk plot and character a lot...sorry!...but some people that post are very naive. Cerberus dumped everything into rebuilding Shepard, there is nothing left.You can't take Cerberus up against the Reapers and expect to win. They don't have the manpower or the resources and their PR is worse than DA2s at the moment. Shepard will be pigeon holed/forced/elated to work with the Alliance/Council in ME3 the same way we were forced to work with Cerberus in ME2. For me, that will be like my Shepard returning to her roots and the people who helped make her what she is.
No, I have no deep insight into the plot of ME3, but the toy replica of the new Normandy is a less than subtle hint at allegience in ME3.

@Fiery Phoenix...I agree with how carefully Casey worded things. It was part of what made me start rethinking things.

[meonlyred]

I figured there was a reason the VS HAS to stay alive in ME2. That under not circumstance could they go with Shepard on the suicide mission for fear of them not being able to be in ME3. I think in fact, one of my old GI mentioned that when ME2 first came out. I'm kind of hoping Kaidan will be a major plot device in some shape or form in ME3, like he was in ME1. He was after all the reason Shepard got waylaid by the beacon and started this whole "we must stop the Reaper" thing. Then again I'm an eternal optimist. Life gives me lemons and I make Hard Lemonade and get wasted.

[Nimrel]

I vaguely remember reading that it was to keep then alive for ME3, but it's been so long everything's a little muddled. I'm right in the midst of another ME2 playthrough, and I can't help feeling that everything that happens is to get Shepard to the point that there's nothing left to lose. Maybe I'm having Buffy season 2 flashbacks at the same time.

Edit: I had 5.5 hours of conference call today, I'm not sure if that came out as coherently as I meant it to.

Modifié par Nimrel, 26 avril 2011 - 08:04 .

[RGC_Ines]

Nimrel wrote...

I vaguely remember reading that it was to keep then alive for ME3, but it's been so long everything's a little muddled. I'm right in the midst of another ME2 playthrough, and I can't help feeling that everything that happens is to get Shepard to the point that there's nothing left to lose. Maybe I'm having Buffy season 2 flashbacks at the same time.

Edit: I had 5.5 hours of conference call today, I'm not sure if that came out as coherently as I meant it to.

If I good remember it was exactly Casey Hudson, who said, that there will be not a VS big role in ME2, becouse they don't want VS death, becouse Kaidan/Ash will play big and important role in ME3. And as we saw in ME2, everyone could die in suicide mission, so I understand why they done that, even if Horizon was very poorly made. Before ME2 relase date Devs also said, that we will be able to contact with VS via mails, but we got only one post-Horizon message, I even couldn't replay

[jdecker]

JaerWolfe wrote...

Just watched the interview with Casey Hudson. The thing that jumped the most for me was his talk of the romances and then how they would evolve over a three game arch...if that person hadn't been there in the second, if there had been someone else, how that would flow in the third. I had always presumed that the reason the VS was left out of ME2 was because they weren't fan favorites being the normal humans that Ash and Kaidan are and that we were being told they were important to ME3 was basically to get us to stop whining and shut up.
Based on that interview and the subtext in voice and face in Casey Hudson, I may have been wrong and owe an apology. It gives me something more to consider if the trilogy was planned not just on the plot of stopping the Reapers, but the character archs as well, specifically Ash and Kaidan. Liara, to an extent as well, but LotSB had really wrapped up her major plot lines. Not her character development, but the plot lines for her character, if that makes sense.

what interview? where can i see it ? i would love to see it ! please tell me where i can find it !!

[FireEye]

I don't buy the "three game love story" thing, because if all LI's are equal, that totally discounts the second batch of LI's as important to the love story arc.  Unless the whole "cheating" thing was terribly important.  Or the ME1 LI assumes you cheated even if you don't. 

... unless he's talking about Liara again.  In which case I'm sure it makes perfect sense somehow. 

Anyhow.



Any minute, he's going to look down and realize he ain't wearing pants.  x_x

[meonlyred]

FireEye wrote...

I don't buy the "three game love story" thing, because if all LI's are equal, that totally discounts the second batch of LI's as important to the love story arc.  Unless the whole "cheating" thing was terribly important.  Or the ME1 LI assumes you cheated even if you don't. 

... unless he's talking about Liara again.  In which case I'm sure it makes perfect sense somehow. 

Anyhow.



Any minute, he's going to look down and realize he ain't wearing pants.  x_x

[AkodoRyu]

Absolutely positively definitely crazy. In a good way.

And I was in a middle of drawing something delicately perverted right now. Thanks for helping me XD

Modifié par AkodoRyu, 26 avril 2011 - 09:03 .

[FireEye]

Always glad to be helpful. XD

[JaerWolfe]

@jdecker...it's in the General Discussion thread. How Mass Effect Began or something. I don't do links, sorry. I have a fear of committment.

@Fire...wasn't the 'all LIs are equal' Chris Priestly's PR spin? I've always thought that was open to a very liberal interpretation. Like much of what he says. Although, I don't think that the ME2 LIs are important to story arch at all. Character arch, yes, but not story.

[FireEye]

Not sure. The one I remember is Houston, I think, talking about how DudeShep and FemShep are equal in Bioware's eyes, post-LotSB and something that didn't match up in that, and that all romances are equally important.

I mean, it doesn't matter to me, but seeing six LI's dismissed out of hand (and only there to drive the "main" love story in terms of "were you or weren't you faithful", or as "filler" since your main LI couldn't be there today) would be pretty bizarre and not really fair to people who did romance them.

(Not that Hudson is good at PR, mind.)

[JaerWolfe]

FireEye wrote...

Not sure. The one I remember is Houston, I think, talking about how DudeShep and FemShep are equal in Bioware's eyes, post-LotSB and something that didn't match up in that, and that all romances are equally important.

I mean, it doesn't matter to me, but seeing six LI's dismissed out of hand (and only there to drive the "main" love story in terms of "were you or weren't you faithful", or as "filler" since your main LI couldn't be there today) would be pretty bizarre and not really fair to people who did romance them.

(Not that Hudson is good at PR, mind.)

I honestly hope this doesn't happen. I wouldn't wish a Horizon quality cameo on anyone, especially in the final part of a trilogy. Well, okay, I'll be honest, there are a couple of character fans I'd wish that on, but only when they post really stupid stuff and the rest of the fans shouldn't have to suffer because a couple are idiots. I have also never been thrilled with the 'cheating' concept, it's tacky.

[Chaos715]

I think the new love interests are there for more variety, for the new people starting the game and because the fans asked for alien romances, maybe even they were planned from the beginning, I don't know. I think the fairness comes in with the time each character is given (with Liara apparently being the exception to the rule) Kaidan, Ashley and Liara have ME1 and ME3. Where the new ones will have ME2 and ME3. I'm sure each character will play their part (and hopefully have some important tie into ME3 being the love interest) but like JaerWolfe said it would be more the character arc than story arc.

Modifié par Chaos715, 26 avril 2011 - 10:34 .

[Natswit]

That was a good interview. After a long time, I actually felt like Casey, (or any dev), was talking to the fans without a preset text, like the most famous one liner around here: LI's are all equal.
He chose his words carefully, but it seemed that he does care for the characters, and sees romance as a main thing in the game.
When I first played Horizon, I was too drowned in rage to think about something, but after some time, it seemed like it gave depth to the Shenko story, instead of being something that just goes through one game. 

[FireEye]

JaerWolfe wrote...

I honestly hope this doesn't happen. I wouldn't wish a Horizon quality cameo on anyone, especially in the final part of a trilogy. Well, okay, I'll be honest, there are a couple of character fans I'd wish that on, but only when they post really stupid stuff and the rest of the fans shouldn't have to suffer because a couple are idiots. I have also never been thrilled with the 'cheating' concept, it's tacky.

Agree.

As for the "Middle Act: Your LI isn't  there for you, oh no!" thing... it was a good idea in concept, but it really could have been handled better.  Horizon still feels like an afterthought or a first draft.