8324 réponses à ce sujet

[jeweledleah]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Yeah, when I said that Kaidan would blame himself, I meant he'd consider himself partially to blame for Horizon, and for not making his intentions or support clearer in that email. I've been having some new thoughts on the Horizon situation again, and I'm going to write something up about it soonish... but I'm working on a real "work" project right now, so I don't have the time for anything deeper than silly forum stuff, and that Horizon article requires some research.

Here's another thing I noticed recently, which influences how I see the "cannon" of Shepard and Kaidan's relationship: in his conversations and email, he only mentions that one night, before Ilos. I'm starting to get the impression that, after that, things just went back to flirting and shared glances and maybe a few "accidental" moments of closeness. They had a month together after Ilos, and if he's only asking about that one night... it implies to me that he maybe didn't follow up, slipped back into his noncommittal mode. During that night they were bloody mutineers, and the regs were out the window. After that, back on official duty, I can see him thinking he had time, waiting until they were completely off-duty again to make a real move.

This influences my feelings about the whole thing a bit. Sure I hate the idea of hurting Kaidan, but I don't feel like we were exactly picking out curtains before I died, anyway. If all we had was flirting and then one night and then back to flirting... I feel less like I "moved on" from a serious relationship, and more that I gave up on something that had the potential to be serious, the potential to be great, but never really achieved its full potential.

that night on Ilos was a turning point. Even if you told him that it wasn't the best time and you didn't actualy have sex - it was still a turning point and he still metnions it. I always felt that that's the reason why he mentions that night specificaly (well that and to give people variety of ways to interpret the relationship)  I would imagine that they simple had no good opportunity again. healing, dealing with the politicians, dealing with casualties, being send away to hunt left over Geth...  I don't think they went back exactly to the flirting and non-comitment, not nessesarily - this would depend on a Shepard (I read a great fanfic actualy with Shepard he didn't think Ilos was important, she just took her pleasure where she could and it never occured to her, that Kaidan might have felt stronger about it - it had a very similar dynamic to Garrus).  you CAN chose to see it as a lost potencial

P.S.  I'm going to play a non-imported Shepard first, to familiarize myself with the game and consequences of some of the choices first   I don't want to unintentionaly mess up my happily ever after O_O (and if I decide that I want some tragic endings - I want to know how to get them)

Modifié par jeweledleah, 01 mai 2011 - 04:14 .

[Chignon]

Brodyaha wrote...

I'm hoping that the triangle doesn't involve a catfight. Although I wouldn't worry about that so much with Kaidan as with people hoping for one say, between Ashley and Miranda, as I've seen on the forums. Both women are too smart to fight over Shepard like that, and I hope there's no fist pummelling on Kaidan's part.

I've seen people asking for fights on the forums, and I disagree vehemenently.

I agree with you, Brody. If BioWare absolutely must repeat a "Choose, Shepard!" scenario, I would like it if they kept it similiar to ME1. Liara, Kaidan and Ashley acted very mature about what happened between them and Shepard.

[Lovestories]

@Brodyaha Yeah, at most some awkwardness, but fighting over Shepard please no. If anything Shepard attempting to create a love triangle should result in the LIs upset at him/her for leading them both on, and I would prefer one or both dump Shepard, rather than asking him/her to choose tbh.

@CulturalGeekGirl. I think the writers reference that because they need something the player will remember and can connect with, rather than giving an example of their Shepard doing something they never played in game.

Was it only a month? And yeah I feel more like it never got to reach full potential, I doubt they had time for much connecting on the ship esspecially because I think they would still have been following regulations, how closely I think is up to the player to fill in the blanks tbh.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Yeah, according to the Wiki, the Normandy is destroyed only a month after the Battle of the Citadel. I was shocked by that the first time I read it, and it made me reinterpret a lot of stuff. Of course, how "fast" Shepard moved on is also a function of how long a timespan ME2 represents. I can't find any concrete answer to that, not without trying to go deeper into research.

I'm not trying to say that the month between Ilos and the Collector attack isn't up for interpretation. I just have a tendency to try to figure out what is most likely, based on the evidence I can gather... even if some of that evidence was included as an expedient writers' shorthand, I still have to consider it as valid as anything else they give me. And when I say I think they went back to just flirting and being close, I was more trying to say that I don't imagine they moved into a solidly-defined "in a relationship" phase. I don't think they were spending every night together, or anything like that - or rather, that's possible, but I don't think it's the most likely scenario.

I used to have a job where one of my tasks was looking at a bunch of old, poorly-maintained notes for a fantasy property and trying to figure out what the intended "lore" was supposed to be, when the original creators couldn't be asked, so the "what seems most obvious?" detective work is ingrained into my thought patterns. While there's still room for a lot of things to have happened in the interim, if Ilos is the most important reference point for Kaidan, if he thinks that she could have really forgotten it and everything else, some of that may be his self-doubt, but it implies that nothing that was vastly more significant happened. Again, I need to specify that I'm not trying to disprove anyone's theories... just giving a bit of insight into how I drew my own conclusions. The writers left plenty of room for people to build their own stories in there.

(The funny thing is, for Jane, Horizon was evidence that Kaidan didn't trust her as much as she trusted him... in the same circumstance, she would have defaulted to believing him. She might have checked up on it later, but her first impulse is trust. Then again, I consider her far-too-trusting nature to be her potential fatal flaw.)

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 01 mai 2011 - 05:06 .

[AkodoRyu]

Finished!



My comment @ DeviantArt "Artist comment" block may contain minor spoilers, also, there's a full version in scraps.

My bf commented on Shepard that she looks like she was touched somewhere... else. Who the hell knows with biotics.

Enjoy.

Modifié par AkodoRyu, 01 mai 2011 - 07:31 .

[meonlyred]

The cropped image makes it look like he is doing something dirty to her.

Makes me giggle.


siiiiiigh, I love this picture btw. So romantic.

Modifié par meonlyred, 01 mai 2011 - 06:12 .

[freelovefreeway]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...
I'm not trying to say that the month between Ilos and the Collector attack isn't up for interpretation. I just have a tendency to try to figure out what is most likely, based on the evidence I can gather... even if some of that evidence was included as an expedient writers' shorthand, I still have to consider it as valid as anything else they give me. And when I say I think they went back to just flirting and being close, I was more trying to say that I don't imagine they moved into a solidly-defined "in a relationship" phase. I don't think they were spending every night together, or anything like that - or rather, that's possible, but I don't think it's the most likely scenario.

I used to have a job where one of my tasks was looking at a bunch of old, poorly-maintained notes for a fantasy property and trying to figure out what the intended "lore" was supposed to be, when the original creators couldn't be asked, so the "what seems most obvious?" detective work is ingrained into my thought patterns. While there's still room for a lot of things to have happened in the interim, if Ilos is the most important reference point for Kaidan, if he thinks that she could have really forgotten it and everything else, some of that may be his self-doubt, but it implies that nothing that was vastly more significant happened. Again, I need to specify that I'm not trying to disprove anyone's theories... just giving a bit of insight into how I drew my own conclusions. The writers left plenty of room for people to build their own stories in there. 

Just because they weren't spending every night together doesn't mean they couldn't be at the "solidly-defined 'in a relationship' phase." Whether or not they didn't the opportunity to have sex during the next month doesn't say anything about what their feelings towards each other or what their relationship was. That is still completely up to interpretation. So you can totally interpret it that way if you want, but I would in no way say that that is what the evidence is pointing at.

I do agree that a lot of Kaidan's stance on Horizon comes from his self-doubt, but I don't think that's because the last month before Shepard died was a cooldown period for them. He thought she had been alive the last two years, hadn't contacted him, faked her death to work for terrorists, etc. Nothing he thought he knew about Shepard made sense with this new information. They could have had an extremely solid post attack-of-the-citadel month and he would still have been...who is this person and what does that say about the relationship I thought I had with her. I think, actually, the more meaningful that month was the more doubtful/confused/hurt Kaidan would be when confronted with the suddenly alive again Shepard.

Also, I disagree that they only slept together because of the mutiny. To me, it always started at the locker scene. They both made the decision to lean in and go for it there. The fact that it didn't happen until after they stole the ship, and were in bigger trouble anyway, just happened to coincide with the next time they got the opportunity.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

See, this is what I get for posting off the cuff... I'm obviously phrasing all this badly. I'll come back to it later, when I have time to get all my notes together and am not on deadline.

For now I'll just say that I agree, anything could have happened during that time.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 01 mai 2011 - 07:59 .

[Selenora]

Very nice Ako

[syllogi]

AkodoRyu wrote...

Finished!


My comment @ DeviantArt "Artist comment" block may contain minor spoilers, also, there's a full version in scraps.

My bf commented on Shepard that she looks like she was touched somewhere... else. Who the hell knows with biotics.

Enjoy.

Hehe, I was wondering how you'd deal with that "spoiler detail", very nice!  And LOL at your bf's comment.  Marge is just very, very happy to see Kaidan.  

[Jenova65]

Ako, that is very beautiful.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

AkodoRyu, your Kaidan illustrations are the best I've seen. I also really liked the sad Kaidan face from a few pages ago.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 02 mai 2011 - 12:24 .

[AkodoRyu]

Glad you like it everyone, I enjoyed making this piece, especially adding textures to Shepard's battered armor while Kaidan's is so new and shiny.
Beginnings were kinda hard, I thought there's too many details for me to nail, but I think I did a good job. My old tablet didn't went crazy on me as usual, it's been a while since work gave me such satisfaction.

Modifié par AkodoRyu, 02 mai 2011 - 10:09 .

[MizzNaaa]

Ako I said it before on FemShep and on DA, and I'll say it again, it's absolutely beautiful!

[sagefic]

AkodoRyu wrote...

Finished!

[url=http://goha7777.deviantart.com/#/d3fc4ja[/url]

My comment @ DeviantArt "Artist comment" block may contain minor spoilers, also, there's a full version in scraps.

My bf commented on Shepard that she looks like she was touched somewhere... else. Who the hell knows with biotics.

Enjoy.

LOVE it. awesome work.

[noxpanda]

Lol ok it seems i'm a bit of an odd one out here cos i'm deliberatly going through extra playthroughs where my shep's 'cheat' on kaidan cos i'm hoping for some conflict. I'm not hoping they'll pummel each other into a bloody pulp of course, just hoping to get lots of snarky lines and sexual tension. I am also doing extra playthroughs where shep is loyal to kaidan (with various small decisions changed), mainly because i just want too see what (if any) repercussions will crop up in ME3.
Mind you i don't know what i'll do if the love triangles do suddenly pop up a 'pick one' scenario. Oh hurry up ME3!
Also love the pic Akodo

[oyukichan]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Yeah, when I said that Kaidan would blame himself, I meant he'd consider himself partially to blame for Horizon, and for not making his intentions or support clearer in that email. I've been having some new thoughts on the Horizon situation again, and I'm going to write something up about it soonish... but I'm working on a real "work" project right now, so I don't have the time for anything deeper than silly forum stuff, and that Horizon article requires some research.

Here's another thing I noticed recently, which influences how I see the "cannon" of Shepard and Kaidan's relationship: in his conversations and email, he only mentions that one night, before Ilos. I'm starting to get the impression that, after that, things just went back to flirting and shared glances and maybe a few "accidental" moments of closeness. They had a month together after Ilos, and if he's only asking about that one night... it implies to me that he maybe didn't follow up, slipped back into his noncommittal mode. During that night they were bloody mutineers, and the regs were out the window. After that, back on official duty, I can see him thinking he had time, waiting until they were completely off-duty again to make a real move.

This influences my feelings about the whole thing a bit. Sure I hate the idea of hurting Kaidan, but I don't feel like we were exactly picking out curtains before I died, anyway. If all we had was flirting and then one night and then back to flirting... I feel less like I "moved on" from a serious relationship, and more that I gave up on something that had the potential to be serious, the potential to be great, but never really achieved its full potential.

Just my 2 cents... During the pre-Ilos scene, Kaidan does say that "this can't change anything". Initially I wanted to imagine the month between the end of ME1 and the destruction of the Normandy as lovely couple tiemz, but now I feel more like Kaidan and Shepard kept it professional on ship, waiting for their next shore leave. Probably with some chatting and flirting, but probably not with any visits to Shep's cabin. So, I think there was "relationship" there, but they remained "professional" on the ship.
This also helps me justify how quick Kaidan was to reject my Shep's "one more go" offer after Joker calls her to the bridge when they get to Ilos.

[carilynn46]

some one should hack ME2 and edit shepard to be kaidan and then have female shep be tali in the end romance can you imagine that image? hmmm hmm?

[RGC_Ines]

Datas_12 wrote...

I hope BW is not over reacting this with "cheating" your LI. I mean when it comes to the VS, it's been 2 years, so Shepard has probably moved on. And as it came up here, Liara is not the jelous type.

Hope for this same. I never accept, that ME2 LI means " cheating". I would happilly broke up with ME1 LIs if Bio gave me this chance ( on Horizon, or as a mail), but they never included this option, and I don't understand, why I should be punished becouse someone fault.  I feel  to be " forced" to be cheater Plus for me, one of partners death means end of relationship between them, so for me, after those two years in coma, anything between my Shep & her partners is over. Don't care, if this "punishment" in ME3 will mean some dialogs, argues or something, but I will be angry, if I will be not able to recruit certain person as a companion or something similar.

[keekee53]

Well I hope they do not make a huge deal about the "cheating" as well but I hope there is some type of consequence for it. I would love an argument between Kaidan and Shepard that turned into a kiss, slap in the face or a let's keep it professional based on the options you pick. I would not want to see the love interests battling it out for Shepard's affection. I think all parties should take it up with Shepard. I hope other squaddies talk about the tension on the ship and ask Shepard about the situation.

I personally do not think the two year thing makes it okay for Shepard to cheat. The two years made it okay for Kaidan, Ashley and Liara to move on, but not Shepard. Technically, the destruction of the Normandy should feel like yesterday to Shepard, not two years ago. I do not think "cheating" should cost you a squadmate. I only have one Shepard that cheated on Kaidan for story purposes and I will be very upset if I lose him as a squadmate because of it.

[Fault Girl]

I don't think Bioware will punish, maybe it'll just be more of a reward for staying "faithful" Imagine the backlash if they did punish, the majority of people did romance someone in ME1 but moved on in ME2, it was hard not to. Even I did for some playthroughs. (damn Garrus and Thane sexy aliens)

I'm not sure what they meant by "consequence" or what word they used, but i'm hoping it'll just be an argument and not the death of 1000's of people cos of it lol!

[AkodoRyu]

In the latests interview Casey said they don't want to punish gamers, it would be like punishing you for playing your game the way you want. They have different ideas for ME3 that probably don't involve such dramatic sacrifices like "you lost your squad, so you're weaker in ME3" or "you offended someone so he won't join you in ME3".

[RGC_Ines]

keekee53 wrote...

I personally do not think the two year thing makes it okay for Shepard to cheat. The two years made it okay for Kaidan, Ashley and Liara to move on, but not Shepard. Technically, the destruction of the Normandy should feel like yesterday to Shepard, not two years ago. I do not think "cheating" should cost you a squadmate. I only have one Shepard that cheated on Kaidan for story purposes and I will be very upset if I lose him as a squadmate because of it.

I understand, that for someone it's not enough for Shepard to move on, but even that fact, it don't give Kaidan/Ash/Liara any rights to critique Shepard's action. Don't get me wrong, I really liked Kaidan in ME1, but for me, Horizon, and Kaidan behaviour means that's everything between them is over. Maybe it's becouse my own personality, but I would never return to someone who can't trust me or  my actions. Garrus, Joker, Chakwas, Tali, they all tought that my Shep is dead and they had to move on too, they knew, she will have to work with Cerberus, and they still were able to trust her, and go with her even into suicide mission. Liara gave my Shep body to Cerberus, and I have feelings, that one of the reason was a fact, that she still belived, that even Cerberus brings Shepard to live again, Shepard will still be this same person, and will not work with " terrorist" and will stay herself no matter what. So while my best friends could trust me and go with Shep to hell, the person who probably loved her and slept with her couldn't trust her and turned away from her. So I will never consider to re-union with Kaidan even if my main Shepard hadn't new LI in ME2. Besides I can't accept " cheater" name for Shepard, while BioWare never gave me a chance to resolve this problem in ME2. It could be done with VS in dialog on Horizon, or as a answer for theirs mail ( coul be in game two standards messages, one with " broke up" and one, when Sheps gave a hope to LI that they could try to be together again). I don't care, if there will be argue or something in game ( I always can just don't talk to Kaidan/Ash), I just don't want to lose something important for gameplaying like companion, quest etc.

[jeweledleah]

I doubt it would cost you a squadmate. dialogue possibly, if you move on, there might be some tension, but they will still work with you. I've said it before, but I guess I'll say it again - I cannot blame Kaidan and Ashley for not trusting me, heck my Shepards (most of them anyways) weren't precisely sure themselves if Cerberus weren't influencing them in some insidious ways. I was surprised, and honestly a bit weary that Garrus and Tali, just followed along, with no doubts. Joker- he just wants to fly, he was never an alliance man, he is a pilot first and foremost. Dr. Chakwas? she's there for Joker as much as for you - she says as much. Garrus and Tali? gratitude? something? to be honest, I lost a bit of my trust in them, because they went along far too easily.. oh I'm sure they will back me up, no matter what, but I can no longer trust them to tell my Shepards if they go to far. then again, unlike Kaidan or Ash - Garrus didn't exactly have anywhere else to go and Tali? lesser of 2 evils - Admiralty board sending her on all those suicidal missions for no good purpose that she could see, making her responsible for the loss of so many quarians and here's Shepard, a leader who's doing something that might benefit the entire Galaxy - and her Idol. its part of what I liked about Kaidan/Ash. they look up to you, but unlike Garrus and Tali - they never idolize you. ANd unlike Garrus/Tali - they were on a mission of their own and it obviously involved investigating Cerberus. I wouldn't be surprised if they had uncovered a few extra titbits that TIM wasn't forthcoming with - I do still wonder about that tip they got, they had thought that Cerberus was behind abductions and judging by our prior experiences with Cerberus, despite what Mordin says - they didn't hesitate using aliens to achieve their goals before.

I have no doubt that there will be an option to break up formally (as if moving on didn't already do that), and I think the most conflict we'd get is something like confrontation scene in ME1 - in case player decides to string VS and new lover along at the same time. judging by information released so far, I doubt it will affect actual mission in any way - only personal relationships with npc's. Romances have always been optional side story, so unlike loyalty mission they shouldn't make any difference in whom you could recruit or main storyline choices you could make. Plus, developers were so insistent that gamers try out new romances, for them to punish so many players for merely going along with their suggestions? nyaaaaah

[noxpanda]

jeweledleah wrote...

I doubt it would cost you a squadmate. dialogue possibly, if you move on, there might be some tension, but they will still work with you. I've said it before, but I guess I'll say it again - I cannot blame Kaidan and Ashley for not trusting me, heck my Shepards (most of them anyways) weren't precisely sure themselves if Cerberus weren't influencing them in some insidious ways. I was surprised, and honestly a bit weary that Garrus and Tali, just followed along, with no doubts. Joker- he just wants to fly, he was never an alliance man, he is a pilot first and foremost. Dr. Chakwas? she's there for Joker as much as for you - she says as much. Garrus and Tali? gratitude? something? to be honest, I lost a bit of my trust in them, because they went along far too easily.. oh I'm sure they will back me up, no matter what, but I can no longer trust them to tell my Shepards if they go to far. then again, unlike Kaidan or Ash - Garrus didn't exactly have anywhere else to go and Tali? lesser of 2 evils - Admiralty board sending her on all those suicidal missions for no good purpose that she could see, making her responsible for the loss of so many quarians and here's Shepard, a leader who's doing something that might benefit the entire Galaxy - and her Idol. its part of what I liked about Kaidan/Ash. they look up to you, but unlike Garrus and Tali - they never idolize you. ANd unlike Garrus/Tali - they were on a mission of their own and it obviously involved investigating Cerberus. I wouldn't be surprised if they had uncovered a few extra titbits that TIM wasn't forthcoming with - I do still wonder about that tip they got, they had thought that Cerberus was behind abductions and judging by our prior experiences with Cerberus, despite what Mordin says - they didn't hesitate using aliens to achieve their goals before.

I have no doubt that there will be an option to break up formally (as if moving on didn't already do that), and I think the most conflict we'd get is something like confrontation scene in ME1 - in case player decides to string VS and new lover along at the same time. judging by information released so far, I doubt it will affect actual mission in any way - only personal relationships with npc's. Romances have always been optional side story, so unlike loyalty mission they shouldn't make any difference in whom you could recruit or main storyline choices you could make. Plus, developers were so insistent that gamers try out new romances, for them to punish so many players for merely going along with their suggestions? nyaaaaah

I dunno i thought Tali was well scripted with her offering shep a grenade to blow up cereberus and her first convo on the sr2, where shes worried about teaming up with them. It came across to me as there was no way Tali would've been on the ship if it wasn't for her trust in shep, both in dealing with the mission and in dealing with cereberus. Garrus came across the same way, so i'd say i'd still trust both of their judgement still.

I'm curious about the tip about cerberus abducting colonies too, will be interesting too see whats coming in ME3 with cerberus hunting shep, i have lots of theories, but until the games released i have no idea if they are just crazy ramblings or turthful insights.

I don't think they'll let romances affect recruitment of squadmates (at least i hope not) but i do hope to get some extra conversations from it all. More conversations, i love them! <3