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Kaidan Alenko Support Thread Part 3


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#6226
Selenora

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CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

I decided a few weeks ago to look at ME2 from a different perspective: what if Horizon is evidence of Kaidan's character development in Shepard's absence, rather than a mischaracterization of him?

If that's the case, I think we may see is an stronger Kaidan, but also one who is more closed-off, even more risk-averse regarding his emotions. He talked up being careful in ME1, but he fell for Shepard hard and fast. In ME2, given the chance to accept that Shepard was back and open himself up again, he chose, rationally, to not risk it. He always played it safe before with relationships, and now he's playing it even safer. I'd also imagine he's learned better to suppress his emotions, and push right through the pain - after Jump Zero, he was paralyzed. After Shepard's death, he went into overdrive, doing everything he could to ensure Shepard's death wasn't in vain, trying to reach a position where he had a chance of having a voice, where he might be able to warn everyone about the Reapers.

I'm sure that the faithful will have a chance to soften him again, but I think that those who weren't faithful may have to deal with the new, more closed-off, less emotionally available Kaidan.


If i was about to do Kaidan's psychological  profile i would say i see a very sensitive and introverted man by nature, who only wanted to have a normal life but thought himself as a freak, especially after what happened to him when he was a teenager, which cost him to be more intoverted and carefull, even frightened and reluctant to try and bond to another person. And that kind of person, usually ends up doing the exact opposite.....an explanation on why he fell hard and fast for Shep. His surpressed need  (a powerful motivation) and his personality drove him to fell for a woman that he at the beggining admired, and a woman who accepted him for what he was.

He opened himself and fell in love only to have his heart broken again, and this time leaving a wound that cant easily be healed. Its not about a couple breaking up coz they discovered they were not right for eachother. Its about finding (short of) the love of your life and then losing it in a blink of an eye.

Time is the best healer. He was able to heal from his previous relationship and he was able to move on and be a functional human being. It would take him much more time to heal from losing Shep but eventually he would.....either he would have a normal approach and seek another relationship or giving up by just accepting the thing that he could never find out the love he had and lost (or love in general) is something we will never find out since  fate was not kind on him....

I do beleive Shep will have a harder time gaining Kaidan's love again, not coz he does not love her anymore  but coz he's too afraid now to deal with another emotional break down.
But i also beleive that Kaidan will be in a constant war with himself and his emotions as well.

And by the way, if my Shep was to see a man she loved and knew was dead for 2 years, well and alive in front of her, working with the enemy as well, she would propably be more harsh than Kaidan
Kaidan said it while he was approaching her......:
You're in the presense of a legend..and a GHOST

#6227
Selenora

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[quote]CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

I still suspect that a big part of why they wrote Horizon the way they
did, was becasue they wanted to give more people a reason to try out
those new and compelling romantic interests /tinfoil hat[/quote]

[/quote]

I was till recently sure that was the case and that devs wanted to just push us to the new LIs but im not so sure now.  Bioware tends to have new LIs in games, even sequels. And they  know most ppl would try the new LIs, for many reasons.
I started to think we may just see the trees and not the forest. I think there's more going on with MEs series LIs.

Modifié par Selenora, 10 mai 2011 - 08:35 .


#6228
M-Sinistrari

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MICHELLE7 wrote...



From the LI perspective I've always thought of him as Shepard's rock...her stability...the shoulder she leans upon. Like Chawkas saying that maybe Shepard was her stability...everyone is always looking to Shepard for support...who does Shepard have...Kaidan...even looking at the picture before the final mission seems to scream to me that even without him physically being there just the thought of him is keeping her from falling apart under all the pressure. Just the way I'm seeing it for my own playthoughs.

I've wondered about the fact that no one but Joker and Kelly say anything about the relationship...well TIM implies it and I guess if Garrus was there he would hear Kaidan say that he loved her. I'm thinking not many people knew about them and that maybe that's the reason the dialogue was so little. I don't see Kaidan blurting out to the universe that he and Shep were a couple after her death ..which would have probably made it harder on his getting past it I would think. I mean I'm sure they probably counsel military personal on tragic deaths or something but I would think they would handle the death of a shipmate different than someone who is personally invoved with someone. Kaidan probably went it alone and no one really knew what he was going through. Personally I just the last two years as being harder on him than Horizon would have been on Shep. Sort of like Kasumi...maybe he didn't really get past the pain at all but just put on a brave face like he did with Rhana and pretended that it didn't affect him.


For my main femShep, without question Kaidan's her stability and at this point likely her sanity as well.  Being earthborn's a given for not the best of growing up situations, and as the sole survivor of Akuze...yeah....LaZorra's likely kept up a good reasonably functioning facade of normal since everyone around her sees "Shepard the Heroine".  Kaidan's pretty much the only one who looked past that to see "LaZorra the often feeling out of her league, winging it and essentially been about as lucky at it as having a horseshoe up her rear.".

Around him, she'd generally be more successful at being better than her rough and tumble past.  And with the mindset of 'Came from nothing, ain't got nothing and now's got a something, you gotta protect that something with your life 'cause it's all you got', he was the more stable something since any stability she had as an Alliance marine did get a good shakeup from Akuze.

So with Horizon, having the one who's her stability snap at her was pretty much the equivalent of a shot to the head.  Hell, if Kaidan just shot her point blank it probably would've been more merciful.  Throw in his email where she pretty much only saw "Been two years, with a pretty doctor now, it's been fun. Toodles", and yeah....her head's not in a good place.

Come ME3, her best reaction for thier reunion will likely be hit him first then hug him so hard he's begging for air.

#6229
DeadLetterBox

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Selenora wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

I still suspect that a big part of why they wrote Horizon the way they
did, was becasue they wanted to give more people a reason to try out
those new and compelling romantic interests /tinfoil hat


I was till recently sure that was the case and that devs wanted to just push us to the new LIs but im not so sure now.  Bioware tends to have new LIs in games, even sequels. And they  know most ppl would try the new LIs, for many reasons.
I started to think we may just see the trees and not the forest. I think there's more going on with MEs series LIs. 


I think it might be both.  The confrontation on Horizon could easily be the reason you're looking for to explore new options, but there is definitely something going on.  They keep saying there will be consequences for cheating.  Neither Kaidan nor Ashley is petty enough to let the entire galaxy die just because they've found out their lover was being indiscreet while they were on a break.  I think there's going to come a time when you need absolute trust from Kaidan or Ash, and if you cheated you won't get it.

Modifié par DeadLetterBox, 10 mai 2011 - 09:15 .


#6230
SilentK

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Jhosephine wrote...

SilentK wrote...

Hmmm... when did TIM hint at the relationship between shep and Kaidan? It's been too long since my last ME-run. Gotta finish my current Hawke get back to romancing Kaidan, I'm starting to forget things =)


Ugh, been too long since my last run too...think it's the talk after Horizon. Shepard can tell him to **** off when he asks about it...love doing that hehe (although she's more polite than I would have been :P)


You're right... I get some some brief flashback of that       :D       jupp, time to hit ME again. Love playing when I've started to forget things. It feels so much more like the first time I played blind stumbling through the game.

#6231
M-Sinistrari

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DeadLetterBox wrote...


I think it might be both.  The confrontation on Horizon could easily be the reason you're looking for to explore new options, but there is definitely something going on.  They keep saying there will be consequences for cheating.  Neither Kaidan nor Ashley is petty enough to let the entire galaxy die just because they've found out their lover was being indiscreet while they were on a break.  I think there's going to come a time when you need absolute trust from Kaidan or Ash, and if you cheated you won't get it.


The way I look at it is along the lines of Jacob's  comment of "Everyone around you's changed but you're still the same.".  At the time of Horizon, Kaidan/Ashley seem pretty firm in thier belief that Shep just went into hiding.  However after Horizon there's the possibility they'll learn the truth that Shep was dead as dead can be and that what was 2 years for everyone else is something like a week tops for Shep.  In light of that perspective, Shep can be seen as cheating since it's only been a figurative week since they were all snuggles with Kaidan/Ashley.  From that angle, it does rather look as if Shep was more about the bedhopping than something more substantial.

With that said, I can't see Kaidan/Ashley as being pissy to let something like 'they cheated on meeeeee!' to affect something serious with the galaxy, but I can see them not being as sympatico with Shep as they once were.

#6232
AnimeAngel90

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My copy of ME arrived today. GLEEEE

*stalks Kaidan like nothing else* =D

#6233
Jhourney

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AnimeAngel90 wrote...

My copy of ME arrived today. GLEEEE

*stalks Kaidan like nothing else* =D


hahaha first time I went back to ME1 after playing ME2, I kept 'accidentally" bumping into Kaidan and laughing when he ran away. Really I can never focus on the game when I play it, I keep oogling him...poor guy, he must wonder wth is going on lol

#6234
AnimeAngel90

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He runs away if you "accidentally" bump into him? Ooh, have to try this =D Hey, if Kaidan didn't want to be fangirled, he shouldn't be so likeable :P

I think Bioware knows how much I love Sbarge's voice though.....and oh are they abusing that power.

#6235
Eliantariel

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Hmh, I was wondering if Kaidan would be inspecting the Normandy after Shepard returns to earth. With the Alliance investigate and changing the Normandy, it seems likely that Shepard will stay some weeks or months at earth prior the events at the beginning of ME3.

Just imagine Kaidan inspecting Shepards room and finding his picture on her desk....

I am not sure what to expect from Kaidan in the beginning of ME3 - will he be angry? Or will he understand that Shep did what she/he did only because it seemed to be the only way?

I hope there will be at last some emotional discussion about it and not just "ok let's pretend that did not happen". And I really hope that Shepard will at least get the chance to express more her/his feelings on the mission, the reapers, Cerberus, her death.. of course Shepard is a tough soldier, but still a human and with everything happened before I would really like to see a private moment maybe with the LI that shows Shepards desperation.

#6236
Eliantariel

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AnimeAngel90 wrote...

My copy of ME arrived today. GLEEEE

*stalks Kaidan like nothing else* =D



I love ME - this is a really great game. Only the side quests are sometimes boring but I really got to appreciate the Mako after dealing with the Hammerhead in ME2...

So have fun :)

#6237
M-Sinistrari

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Eliantariel wrote...

Hmh, I was wondering if Kaidan would be inspecting the Normandy after Shepard returns to earth. With the Alliance investigate and changing the Normandy, it seems likely that Shepard will stay some weeks or months at earth prior the events at the beginning of ME3.

Just imagine Kaidan inspecting Shepards room and finding his picture on her desk....


I'm trying to imagine anyone trying to get past Urz in my femShep's quarters.  They'd probably need Kaiden to biotically lift a pallet of White Castles in just so they could set foot in the room.:lol:

I am not sure what to expect from Kaidan in the beginning of ME3 - will he be angry? Or will he understand that Shep did what she/he did only because it seemed to be the only way?

I hope there will be at last some emotional discussion about it and not just "ok let's pretend that did not happen". And I really hope that Shepard will at least get the chance to express more her/his feelings on the mission, the reapers, Cerberus, her death.. of course Shepard is a tough soldier, but still a human and with everything happened before I would really like to see a private moment maybe with the LI that shows Shepards desperation.


I'm open to any reaction and rolling with it from there.  I have liked the sparce bits of when someone's actually asked Shep how she's doing since it seems everyone's looking more at Shepard the Great Hero than Shepard the person.

#6238
Jhourney

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Eliantariel wrote...

Just imagine Kaidan inspecting Shepards room and finding his picture on her desk....


You know, that does raise an interesting question. Since the Alliance will confiscate the Normandy at the start of ME3, Shepard's love of Kaidan will be out in the open so to speak. They must wonder why Shepard has a picture of her former lieutenant in her private quarters. Might even be brought up at her trial.

Could be interesting if the picture would 'play a big role' at the start of ME3, like it did at the end of ME2 ;)

#6239
Eliantariel

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Oh, I haven't thought about that... but with all of Shepards actions and what happened in the Arrival DLC, I suppose they will focus on those decisions.

Maybe Shepard expect something like this and hides the picture somewhere... close to her... :)

And if not: well Anderson has a picture of Kaidan in his office as well - why shouldn't Shepard have a picture of her favourite soldier.. like a steady reminder of what they stand for (you know the little angel on your shoulder that was missing in ME2).

I am wondering how much we will actually see of this trial - but if they use it to introduce the events that happened in ME1 and M2 like the genesis comic in ME2 for the PS3 gamer, than the romance with Kaidan may be getting in focus - maybe only with a one-liner that you don't care for the rules and are fraternizing and if you romanced e.g. Garrus they will comment on him.

#6240
MICHELLE7

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SilentK wrote...

Hmmm... when did TIM hint at the relationship between shep and Kaidan? It's been too long since my last ME-run. Gotta finish my current Hawke get back to romancing Kaidan, I'm starting to forget things =)


Perhaps assumption on my part...It's just that when he asks if she's ready to put her past behind her I got the feeling that he knew more than he was saying...but then I always think TIM knows more than what he is saying. Kelly seems to know...how would she if she didn't have some sort of heads up. I guess it's really just how you choose to look at it...I mean some could say he was just wanting her to put the Alliance behind her...others her romantic relationship...I just always felt like the game started pushing the romantic angle with the other LI's after Horizon...but since I was an emotional wreck  after that scene maybe that was just me.

#6241
DeadLetterBox

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Eliantariel wrote...

Hmh, I was wondering if Kaidan would be inspecting the Normandy after Shepard returns to earth. With the Alliance investigate and changing the Normandy, it seems likely that Shepard will stay some weeks or months at earth prior the events at the beginning of ME3.

Just imagine Kaidan inspecting Shepards room and finding his picture on her desk....

I am not sure what to expect from Kaidan in the beginning of ME3 - will he be angry? Or will he understand that Shep did what she/he did only because it seemed to be the only way?

I hope there will be at last some emotional discussion about it and not just "ok let's pretend that did not happen". And I really hope that Shepard will at least get the chance to express more her/his feelings on the mission, the reapers, Cerberus, her death.. of course Shepard is a tough soldier, but still a human and with everything happened before I would really like to see a private moment maybe with the LI that shows Shepards desperation.


Oh, I think Kaidan will be angry, at least at first.  He'll probably think it means she wanted to work with Cerberus all along.  Getting past this will allow for a lot of things to come out in the open.

#6242
MICHELLE7

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M-Sinistrari wrote...

So with Horizon, having the one who's her stability snap at her was pretty much the equivalent of a shot to the head.  Hell, if Kaidan just shot her point blank it probably would've been more merciful.  Throw in his email where she pretty much only saw "Been two years, with a pretty doctor now, it's been fun. Toodles", and yeah....her head's not in a good place.

Come ME3, her best reaction for thier reunion will likely be hit him first then hug him so hard he's begging for air.


lol my canon is Earthborn/survivor as well...and I see my Shep as having deep seeded pain as well as Kaidan...two of a kind who find each other.

I see that email with the doctor differently though...I can see her rereading the thing as many times as I did...I would think she would pick up on the fact that Kaidan doesn't enter into relationships lightly and that a couple of drinks means that he was just in the stage of getting to know the woman and it was just casual which means to me (at least) that he had just recently begun to move on...it might not have been more than a month or maybe a couple of weeks. If it had been longer it probably would have been more serious. My idea is that as soon as he realized Shep was indeed alive and truly Shep and he sent the email he probably told the Doctor he couldn't see her anymore. Kaidan isn't the kind of guy to date someone when he's in love with someone else and even if Shep didn't love him, it's obvious from the email that he still loves her. So my Shep would probably skip the hit and just go for the hug. Would be neat if they gave some interrupts to just go for it or the option of talking it out...wonder if they are going to have the talk early on or they are going to avoid it for a while. If they avoid it too long...I'll be going crazy.


I think it might be both.  The confrontation on Horizon could easily be the reason you're looking for to explore new options, but there is definitely something going on.  They keep saying there will be consequences for cheating.  Neither Kaidan nor Ashley is petty enough to let the entire galaxy die just because they've found out their lover was being indiscreet while they were on a break.  I think there's going to come a time when you need absolute trust from Kaidan or Ash, and if you cheated you won't get it.


That's what I've been leaning towards...that your loyalty to your ME LI depends on whether or not you cheated and you'll need that loyalty in ME3 that same way you needed your squadmates loyalty in ME2. Clever if Bioware does that...kinda makes the ME LI a secret squadmate in ME2...you don't get to actually play with them but you still have to win their loyalty.

Modifié par MICHELLE7, 10 mai 2011 - 12:19 .


#6243
MICHELLE7

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M-Sinistrari wrote...

The way I look at it is along the lines of Jacob's  comment of "Everyone around you's changed but you're still the same.".  At the time of Horizon, Kaidan/Ashley seem pretty firm in thier belief that Shep just went into hiding.  However after Horizon there's the possibility they'll learn the truth that Shep was dead as dead can be and that what was 2 years for everyone else is something like a week tops for Shep.  In light of that perspective, Shep can be seen as cheating since it's only been a figurative week since they were all snuggles with Kaidan/Ashley.  From that angle, it does rather look as if Shep was more about the bedhopping than something more substantial.


That's kinda the way I saw it too...wasn't so sure that Kaidan believed her story on Horizon about being dead...I mean she is working for Cerberus...can he really trust anything she says. Add to that his obvious emotional state at seeing the woman is positively madly in love with and the fact that he feels betrayed and rejected because she's been gone for 2 years and he's been through emotional hell and I'm surprised he was as calm as he was. And I can also see himself beating himself up about not believing her when he realizes that she was telling the truth about being dead. He's probably terrified she's going to reject him for real now. One of the reason's I hated not being able to respond to that email...I figure he's going through hell not knowing where he stands with her.

Agree that at that angle it does make it look Kaidan was just a one night stand if Shep cheats...probably destroy him if he finds out.

#6244
meonlyred

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@TIM hinting at Shepard's relationship,
I think you are talking about the scene post-Horizon where TIM asks Shepard if she has put her past relationships behind her. (To that my Shepard always responses "none of your damn business") He actually says that regardless if they are together or not. I recently did a non-romantic Kaidan playthrough and TIM still asked Shepard the exact same thing. But I still interpret it as TIM hinting at their romance for my main Shepard.

Which beings me to this: Cerberus is going to be Shepard's enemy in ME3. For whatever reason Shepard is on TIM's bad list. (I can think of a few things my Shepard has done to put herself there) I wonder if the reason Shepard does not reply to Kaidan's message and maybe partly for the reason for her clamming up on Horizon is because she fears Cerberus might use Kaidan against her, in some form, if they knows she cares for him. I certainly fear that might be the case, either as random, bait (he has already done that), threaten, assassination attempt, etc.

#6245
AkodoRyu

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DeadLetterBox wrote...

Oh, I think Kaidan will be angry, at least at first.  He'll probably think it means she wanted to work with Cerberus all along.  Getting past this will allow for a lot of things to come out in the open.


He will be anything than angry I think. There was time for anger on Horizon, now it's time for getting ready for the Reapers. LI or not, Shepard's the only person that is actually willing to do something about it and I suppose Kaidan won't hesitate to rejoin this time. I just don't want Shepard to outtalk or persuade him again.

As for Cerberus, if they're going to show up along the way, it's not gonna be a friendly visit. Poor/good excuse for Shepard to prove that s/he's not with them anymore.

Modifié par AkodoRyu, 10 mai 2011 - 12:49 .


#6246
MICHELLE7

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[quote]Jhosephine wrote...

[quote]Eliantariel wrote...

Just imagine Kaidan inspecting Shepards room and finding his picture on her desk....
[/quote]

You know, that does raise an interesting question. Since the Alliance will confiscate the Normandy at the start of ME3, Shepard's love of Kaidan will be out in the open so to speak. They must wonder why Shepard has a picture of her former lieutenant in her private quarters. Might even be brought up at her trial.

Could be interesting if the picture would 'play a big role' at the start of ME3, like it did at the end of ME2 ;)

[/quote]

Out in the open? I can see that stupid reporter drilling Shep on her realtionship with her former LT now. "Did you and Spectre Alenko have an affair while he was an officer under your command in the Alliance military?"I feel another punch in the mouth coming. :D Well at least on my renegade.

[quote]I am not sure what to expect from Kaidan in the beginning of ME3 - will
he be angry? Or will he understand that Shep did what she/he did only
because it seemed to be the only way?

I hope there will be at last some emotional discussion about it and not just "ok let's pretend that did not happen".[quote/]

I really think that some of how they go about doing it will be whether or not they allow those who have single Sheps to start a late romance with a ME or ME2 LI. Just for time and money's sake I don't see them doing a completely different dialogue tree for a late romance as opposed to one that started earlier. And since a late romance would require getting to know the LI it would probably go slower for all of us. If you can't start a late romance they could probably just jump in there where they left off (if any of that makes sense).

#6247
MICHELLE7

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meonlyred wrote...

@TIM hinting at Shepard's relationship,
I think you are talking about the scene post-Horizon where TIM asks Shepard if she has put her past relationships behind her. (To that my Shepard always responses "none of your damn business") He actually says that regardless if they are together or not. I recently did a non-romantic Kaidan playthrough and TIM still asked Shepard the exact same thing. But I still interpret it as TIM hinting at their romance for my main Shepard.

Which beings me to this: Cerberus is going to be Shepard's enemy in ME3. For whatever reason Shepard is on TIM's bad list. (I can think of a few things my Shepard has done to put herself there) I wonder if the reason Shepard does not reply to Kaidan's message and maybe partly for the reason for her clamming up on Horizon is because she fears Cerberus might use Kaidan against her, in some form, if they knows she cares for him. I certainly fear that might be the case, either as random, bait (he has already done that), threaten, assassination attempt, etc.


Great way to look at it...Shep protecting Kaidan from future retaliation.

#6248
Jhourney

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MICHELLE7 wrote...

Out in the open? I can see that stupid reporter drilling Shep on her realtionship with her former LT now. "Did you and Spectre Alenko have an affair while he was an officer under your command in the Alliance military?"I feel another punch in the mouth coming. :D Well at least on my renegade.


Oh gosh, miss Al-Jilani will be at the trial for sure...and enjoy it thoroughly no doubt lol

Modifié par Jhosephine, 10 mai 2011 - 12:46 .


#6249
meonlyred

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MICHELLE7 wrote...

Great way to look at it...Shep protecting Kaidan from future retaliation.


Not so much of protecting him, more like trying to steer the hurricane that is her life away from him. :blink:

Jhosephine wrote...

MICHELLE7 wrote...

Out
in the open? I can see that stupid reporter drilling Shep on her
realtionship with her former LT now. "Did you and Spectre Alenko have an
affair while he was an officer under your command in the Alliance
military?"I feel another punch in the mouth coming. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/grin.png[/smilie] Well at least on my renegade.


Oh gosh, miss Al-Jilani will be at the trial for sure...and enjoy it thoroughly no doubt lol


Zody Shepard has managed not to punch her thus far. But if her starts on their relationship, she is going to knock the **** out. :devil:

#6250
AkodoRyu

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Jhosephine wrote...

MICHELLE7 wrote...

Out in the open? I can see that stupid reporter drilling Shep on her realtionship with her former LT now. "Did you and Spectre Alenko have an affair while he was an officer under your command in the Alliance military?"I feel another punch in the mouth coming. :D Well at least on my renegade.


Oh gosh, miss Al-Jilani will be at the trial for sure...and enjoy it thoroughly no doubt lol

Damn her, I won't even look her way.

I've seen speculations about Alliance making some problems because of their affair, has no sense IMO, maybe only to break someone's morale. But law doesn't operate that way, she can't be judged for something from the past, something that cannot be proved (I assume nobody knew), plus she's not really Alliance anymore.

Modifié par AkodoRyu, 10 mai 2011 - 12:57 .