8324 réponses à ce sujet

[SilentK]

Hmmm... I really liked how DA2 did it =) I like being able to choose from all the LI:s. I would have been so sad if I couldn't have romanced Merrill in DA2. And I always wanted to romance Tali and Ash in ME. Would have been fun to romance Morrigan in DA:O. Have a friend who wanted to romance Kaidan with his M!Shep. I guess we'll just have to see who turns out to available to both F!Shep and M!Shep. For me it would be less irritating that all were available than not being able to romance a character that you think would suit your Shep. I don't flirt with everyone when I play DA2. One or two, just a little drama but not so that I feel like everyone in Kirkwall is after my Hawke. Even if I wouldn't romance say, Jack, that doesn't mean that I don't want someone who wants her to miss out on that opportunity.

We will just see how it turns out but DA2 did it very well. I'm sure that ME3 will handle it good also.

[MICHELLE7]

aristaea wrote...

I don't think the decision was to make Kaidan (or Ashely) straight, I think they decision was to exclude s/s romance from gameplay, and to me that's a pretty big difference.

Of course, BW could handle this change disastrously, even offensively. But the possibility doesn't have to be a bad thing.

I would be worried if I thought they were going to retcon characters to fit them into the bisexual box,

I understand what you mean; it wouldn't be the first time that trying to please fans compromised the overall quality of a work. I play WoW, and Blizzard has a history of changing or adding things to please players, and it inevitably backfires because some people will still be disappointed with X not being in the game, or being "wrong". I would rather BW just stick with their vision of how the game should go.

Ultimately, I think it comes down to whether or not you trust the production team to be able to take the good ideas and leave the bad. I really want to believe they can do that, even if I'm wrong, because it will be less stressful during the interminable wait.

Yeah...I think the whole thing just comes down to the fact I don't entirely trust BW anymore...the sentiments are spreading...if you look around the net.

The reason for why they excluded the s/s romance with Kaidan doesn't really matter to me...the fact is they made a decision.

As for retconing  the characters to fit them into a bisexual box...to me I think that would be exactly what it would be for Kaidan...playing as a maleshep Kaidan even mentions Liara's "assets". Just my opinion...If they do it I will be able to live with it but if they do it badly ME3 may be the last BW game for me.

I'm also a little concerned about what they might have to cut with adding all this new stuff...I think someone else posted that they had said that for ME2 they couldn't add certain things because they would have to cut other stuff out. I don't want some of the dialogue or love scenes cut for the established romances just because they are adding more and that's got nothing to do with the s/s thing. I always thought that the use of that pink armor on Kaidan in the opening scene and the fact that they used nearly practicallly the same scene and animations on Horizon for Kaidan and Ash was an indication that they had to limit money spent on the those secenes because they put the money elsewhere. lol I don't think any of us want to see the pink armor again.

[Collider]

There's a LOT of misinformation regarding the lack of S/S romance in ME1 with Kaidan and Ashley.

Here are the facts:
1. Male and Female Shepard seem to have the same script.
<--- Unless they originally intended male Shepard to identify as a woman (highly unlikely), that is clear evidence.
2. There are no audio files from Kaidan or Ashley recognizing that their partner is the same sex.
All of the romance lines recorded from Kaidan and Ashley's voice actors are for opposite sexed Shepard only.
3. The dialog recorded from Shepard for S/S Kaidan and S/S Ashley romances are literally just male Shepard saying female Shepard's lines and vice versa.
4. The only evidence that same sex romances with Kaidan and Ashley were ever intended or considered is a comment from a dev who said he "thought" they were cut. It is worth mentioning that he did not seen to truly know, and seemed to be guessing at best.

Modifié par Collider, 16 mai 2011 - 12:06 .

[MICHELLE7]

noxpanda wrote...

Wow there are some very articulate and well phrased posts here. Don't think i can write anything half as good so i won't try lol.

I'm hoping for ME3 they won't turn all the chars bi, i don't mind the new LIs (whoever they may be) being gay or bi, i don't mind some of the old characters becoming bi (or having been bi all along) but i just really hope they don't just magically turn everyone bi, its too many characters for it to be believable (in my opinion).

I don't see how they could open up everyone to being bi...the costs for the amount of dialogue to do it right would  probably be too high...not that I know anything about what their budget may be.

[MICHELLE7]

TeenZombie wrote...

All the romanceable character threads are having this discussion right now, and I think it all boils down to "we'll have to wait and see." Because we can speculate for the next eight or ten months, and nothing will be settled until we've played the game...and even then, opinions will inevitably differ depending on the player.
 

True...Teen you are the voice of reason.

Collider thanks for the info.

I think it's like Jho said earlier...Casey's tweets are contradictory anyway...he says there will be s/s but I think I also read that he said they were still discussing whether or not there would be s/s so in the end who knows. We all thought the ME1 squadmates would be recruitable in ME2 right up to almost the release date...we probably won't know anything definite until that time again for ME3.

Modifié par MICHELLE7, 16 mai 2011 - 12:16 .

[Jenova65]

 Interesting interview with Casey on PCGamer, don't know if it has been posted but it touches on some of the things we have been discussing 

No new LI's

[Fault Girl]

DOUBLE POST

Modifié par ZombieGeisha, 16 mai 2011 - 12:12 .

[Fault Girl]

Jenova65 wrote...

 Interesting interview with Casey on PCGamer, don't know if it has been posted but it touches on some of the things we have been discussing 

No new LI's

Casey debunked this slightly in a tweet I think.

I can't find it, someone help? Or I may just be crazy...

Back to the s/s argument:

I just feel in the end that a gay PC should be treated with as much thought as any PC and the life style not be thrown onto a pre-existing to fit the request..

EDIT: I dont think being gay is a life style/choice BTW just can't think of a good term.

Modifié par ZombieGeisha, 16 mai 2011 - 12:16 .

[Collider]

Casey debunked this slightly in a tweet I think.

He didn't outright say that it wasn't true.
He said don't believe everything you read...which is sometimes said about things that are actually true.

[M-Sinistrari]

KawaiiKatie wrote...
 After all, I doubt that anyone has a straight male Shepard who saved Kaidan on Virmire and stayed single all through ME1 and ME2.

I've got 3 straight male Sheps who did save Kaidan and had no romances in ME1, though one of them did romance Jack in ME2.

Anyhoos, I posted in the big discussion thread on the topic, got buried fast somewhere around page 5 or 6, and looks like the main concern on many's minds is the handling of things.  It's a valid concern since with what we've seen how it's been handled in other games, it's easy for someone to drop the ball somewhere.  Not helping are the occasional accusations of heterophobia/homophobia because that's a sure way to shut down others who might be open to a well reasoned argument.

[Jenova65]

I sometimes think he doesn't know what he's saying, however they did quote him........ Not sure they are allowed to put words in his mouth, so maybe he needs to shut up, lol
That said, I do find find him quite attractive (he has a Zachary Quinto look)

[Fault Girl]

Jenova65 wrote...

I sometimes think he doesn't know what he's saying, however they did quote him........ Not sure they are allowed to put words in his mouth, so maybe he needs to shut up, lol
That said, I do find find him quite attractive (he has a Zachary Quinto look)

I think he is the only game developer or lead person that i've seen and been like

"Well well helloB)"

[Jenova65]

Collider wrote...

Casey debunked this slightly in a tweet I think.

He didn't outright say that it wasn't true.
He said don't believe everything you read...which is sometimes said about things that are actually true.

One of BioWare's favourite pastimes in fact 

[Jenova65]

ZombieGeisha wrote...

Jenova65 wrote...

I sometimes think he doesn't know what he's saying, however they did quote him........ Not sure they are allowed to put words in his mouth, so maybe he needs to shut up, lol
That said, I do find find him quite attractive (he has a Zachary Quinto look)

I think he is the only game developer or lead person that i've seen and been like

"Well well helloB)"

ROFL, I agree 

[MICHELLE7]

Just to put some Kaidan on the page:

[Collider]

Needs more anti-aliasing.

[SilentK]

What ever happens my F!Shep still has Kaidan so all is good =)

[Fault Girl]

MICHELLE7 wrote...

Just to put some Kaidan on the page:

Kaidan's coming to get my FemShep. Such a strut....

[Jhourney]

MICHELLE7 wrote...

...Casey's tweets are contradictory anyway...he says there will be s/s but I think I also read that he said they were still discussing whether or not there would be s/s so in the end who knows. We all thought the ME1 squadmates would be recruitable in ME2 right up to almost the release date...we probably won't know anything definite until that time again for ME3.

Indeed, and from his most recent tweets it's clear they are still in the process of making descisions where romances are concerned. I think they know where it's all heading, but how it's going to end up there is still up for grabs.
"Yes, our plans evolve over time and are guided by your feedback. Interviews are often from the earlier stages of development."
That's what he says, so basically we know nothing. Then again I'm going to assume he's leaving himself a way out should things change again, which is the smart thing to do confusing as it may be to the readers.
He dropped some bombs on his Twitter account about Jack and Miranda too, I think he quite enjoys rallying the fans..it guarantees they'll be tuned in to learn more and they need to keep us interested in their project (not like they need to be vague to accomplish that.) For all we know he might say too much at times and then tries to say quite the opposite to throw us offguard and make us wonder what to believe...I don't know

I'm not sure what to think anymore the more I think on it, if that makes sense. So it's time for me to take a few step backs and get a bit more perspective.
I'm very eager to play ME3 and am truly hoping Kaidan will still be Kaidan and Shepard will still be Shepard in the end, that's the most important thing to me. But I do worry when reading the tweets so maybe I should just stop doing that

[MICHELLE7]

Jhosephine wrote...

MICHELLE7 wrote...

...Casey's tweets are contradictory anyway...he says there will be s/s but I think I also read that he said they were still discussing whether or not there would be s/s so in the end who knows. We all thought the ME1 squadmates would be recruitable in ME2 right up to almost the release date...we probably won't know anything definite until that time again for ME3.

Indeed, and from his most recent tweets it's clear they are still in the process of making descisions where romances are concerned. I think they know where it's all heading, but how it's going to end up there is still up for grabs.
"Yes, our plans evolve over time and are guided by your feedback. Interviews are often from the earlier stages of development."
That's what he says, so basically we know nothing. Then again I'm going to assume he's leaving himself a way out should things change again, which is the smart thing to do confusing as it may be to the readers.
He dropped some bombs on his Twitter account about Jack and Miranda too, I think he quite enjoys rallying the fans..it guarantees they'll be tuned in to learn more and they need to keep us interested in their project (not like they need to be vague to accomplish that.) For all we know he might say too much at times and then tries to say quite the opposite to throw us offguard and make us wonder what to believe...I don't know

I'm not sure what to think anymore the more I think on it, if that makes sense. So it's time for me to take a few step backs and get a bit more perspective.
I'm very eager to play ME3 and am truly hoping Kaidan will still be Kaidan and Shepard will still be Shepard in the end, that's the most important thing to me. But I do worry when reading the tweets so maybe I should just stop doing that

Yeah....the tweet about I hope Jack is still alive was confusing...cause someone said she was getting a makeover...and is Miranda alright? Saw those...I swear he enjoys this.

[Ghrelt]

I think the Jack still alive tweet was a hint for us gamers not to kill her in ME2 so we can see the redesign.

[jeweledleah]

KawaiiKatie wrote...

I can understand why femSheps would want to keep Kaidan all to themselves--the guy is hot. But that said, I hope that male Shepards also get to enjoy Kaidan's romance in ME3. <3

I think there's a distinct possibility that Kaidan will be bisexual in ME3, because he won't not be available to single femSheps.

Okay, hear me out on this one...

Say you've played femShep since ME1, and she saved Kaidan on Virmire but never pursued him as a romance. She didn't pursue anyone in ME2, either. So come ME3, she's single, and gets to hang out with Kaidan again. I really, really doubt that Kaidan won't be a romance for her! What would he say? "Sorry, Shepard, you missed your chance at me."

Okay, that could happen. But I doubt it. Rather, I think there will be a nice, romantic story path for single femSheps who finally decide to go for it with Kaidan. After all, it's been confirmed that single!Sheps will be able to spark romance in ME3, and I would definitely count Kaidan out as an option for single femSheps.

So, now, how does single male Shepard fit into this? Well, his romance path would be the same as that of single femShep. Bioware is likely to include the single femShep option anyway, so why not make it available to male Shepards, too? After all, I doubt that anyone has a straight male Shepard who saved Kaidan on Virmire and stayed single all through ME1 and ME2.

For some reason, this train of thought really makes sense to me... But then again, my trains of thought often turn into runaways.

I had straight male shepards who kept kaidan alive, there were a lot of people who killed Ashley in virmire becasue they didn't want a romance with her.  some did it becasue they genuinely liked him more and didn't want any romances.  some people saved him becasue - hey superior officer and a more useful squadmate. only insecure players ever claimed that saving Kaidan instead of Ashley as a male shepard is "ghey"  so lets not assume that the only imported male Shepards with Kaidan alive are doing it because they want to jump his bones.

that aside - I do believe you are right in implementation of romance in ME3.  its going to be identical for male and female shepard starting a new romance - ala DA2.  becasue its the most cost effective way.  it will take away from the story of ME1, but how cares about those little neuances, right?  to me, it would have been better if the romance intros were written differently for male vs female, simply because the dynamic of the relationship in ME1 was different.  but they won't be.  that's extra resources that i'm sure Hudson would rather spend elsewhere and to be honest - I'd rather he spend them on friendship paths, among other things.

YMMV on what constitutes character growth.  I'm starting to see Mass Effect in the same way I see DA.  each game is isolated installment that is somewhat connected to the rest of the universe.  kinda like stand alone DnD books.

Bioware does a great job writing separate instalments.  they just fail to preserve the continuity between those installments.  I suppose one could be lenient, as it has never been done before in quite this way, so they are paving the way for the future games, getting the kinks out of the way now.

Edited to add, btw folks - I find it incredibly insulting when oh so enlightened people go on and say that Kaidan and Thane would me a more organic choice to make bi, becasue... they look like they take care of their appearance, take relationships seriously and are sensitive/care about feelings.  personality and appearance has NOTHING to do with sexual orientation.  Technicaly - every single character we've met so far can be written as bi, becasue none of them ever deny it, right?  in fact, i think Jacob, in terms of pure writing would make a great option.  why?   becasue he's not innitialy atracted to femshep and in his romance, you miss one line, just one super pushy romance line... and you are friendzoned.  I had to reload his romance several times becasue I would pick a neutral responce instead of the sexy one and boom - bro fist for my shepard.  so.  as someone who doesn't show interest in either shep untill pushed - he wqould be super easy to write as open to both sexes, because you don't even have to explain anything - the romances in fact CAN start identicaly with only pronouns changing.  same goes for Garrus btw - he trusts and likes Shepard but unless you are pushy - he doesn't see you that way.  and if we are going to mention Kaidan as someone who was "written" bi - then we have to mention Ashley as she has the same number of recorded lines.  becasue otherwise what you are saying is Kaidan is gay becasue of his specific personality, and Ashley's personality is too straight.  way to stereotype

Modifié par jeweledleah, 16 mai 2011 - 03:06 .

[grlpwer]

Hello fellow Kaidan adorers! I'm a little late to the game but I had a thought on the possibility of Kaidan/Ash going bi.

For console users: if you create a male shep, isn't your default VS Ash? And vice versa Femshep/Kaidan? If that's the case, I'm not sure how a Bi Kaidan/Ash can be available for current console Me2 users who plan to import to Me3.

I can see how Bi Kaidan/Ash could creatively be worked in with the inclusion ME 3 intro comic or ME 1 but what about those who have part 2 of 3 games as their entry point?

[Collider]

For console users: if you create a male shep, isn't your default VS Ash? And vice versa Femshep/Kaidan?

Yes.

If that's the case, I'm not sure how a Bi Kaidan/Ash can be available for current console Me2 users who plan to import to Me3.

There is a comic that is basically a fancy save generator that people can use to create new Shepards to use for ME3.

Though, this is actually (virmire) among the reasons why I don't think Kaidan is a good candidate for M/M. Mass Effect 3 hasn't had any gay content yet. If you're going to include gay content in Mass Effect 3, you may as well have the content conveniently available. Kaidan could potentially be dead. I know that many players who want gay content could have conceivably saved Kaidan already, but that there's still going to be people who didn't. Not every gay/etc player is going to be interested in Kaidan.

If Kaidan is the only male love interest open to male Shepards, then there's going to be plenty of players who won't be able to experience that content, because Kaidan is dead.

You could just use the save game generator...but that's not the same as importing your "gay" Shepard from ME2.

[Jade5233]

I agree with what was said above. I'm fine with existing characters becoming biseuxal. But what I don't want is being able ot initiate new romances even with existing characters in ME3. That's just too much dialogue resources taken away from relationships that have been developed through two games now. If you do the comic and make a mShep that had a history of a relationship with Kaidan, that's fine. But I don't want interactions for existing relationships to suffer because BW feels that they need to add start-up relationship dialogue (hetero or homoseuxal).