8324 odpowiedzi w tym temacie

[Sandtigress]

Slavka13748 wrote...

As several people have said, the dialogue choices for Horizon were the killer. I was totally on Kaidan's side for the most part - can you even say that you don't want to be working with Cerberus? Not that there was any justification for my Shep to be with Cerberus anyway...

You can say something of the sort.  I think Shepard tells him he should know her better and he says that even if she thinks she's in control, Cerberus can't be trusted and she should know that.  It's gotta be along the lines of the paragon replies - I can see if I can take a video of later, maybe.  If I can get my volume problems on videos solved.

Editing for apropos ToP

Użytkownik Sandtigress edytował ten post 08 styczeń 2011 - 10:25

[Jhourney]

Slavka13748 wrote...

As several people have said, the dialogue choices for Horizon were the killer. I was totally on Kaidan's side for the most part - can you even say that you don't want to be working with Cerberus? Not that there was any justification for my Shep to be with Cerberus anyway...
Shepard reverting to brick mode didn't help either. I didn't particularly want the dialogue to be 'perfect' - as Pacifien said, that's not realistic, but "how've you been" just doesn't cut it, I'm afraid. That said, they managed to salvage Liara in LotSB, and Shepard got a bit more human... Who's to say they can't make something better out of Horizon?

I remember going through the dialogue options over and over again first time around on Horizon and got frustrated even more with each try to 'slap my Shepard out of robo mode'. While I do understand we all view 'our'  Shepards in different ways, it felt as if Horizon was just way too OOC for me personally. I always understood Kaidan's side, it's Shepard that was the problem for me.

LotSB brought back, or rather restored pieces of my Shepard. The banter between Shepard and Liara midfight was just heartwarming and even though Liara isn't one of my favourite characters, I was really grinning like an idiot when playing that DLC.

If only Horizon was treated with the same stamp of quality, it would have made the whole interaction feel 'more natural'. Forget all the buggy animations etc, when it comes down to pure dialogue and interaction...it felt like an episode of the Twilight Zone to me. None of the responses hit home.

IMO Horizon needed dialogue options on the left side of the wheel for those who imported Shepard from ME1 with an active Kaidan romance. This whole generalisation of the encounter to cater to both new and old players doesn't cut it...it feels cheap.

*goes back to crossing her fingers for some Kaidan DLC stuff, thingie, whatever...ANYTHING*

[Pacifien]

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...
Hmm... There should be a NSAS for Kaidan?

That would be KAAS.

[AntiChri5]

I, as a Jack fan, have a question for the more devoted Kaidan fans.



Do any of you find Jack's backstory simply an overdone version of Kaidan's?



They were both taken when young and abused in an attempt to create a powerful biotic, they both only escaped that when they killed their tormentor and ended the program and they both wound up working for those who started the program.



I see the differences between Jack and Kaidan as somewhat indicative of the difference between The Alliance and Cerberus.

[Pacifien]

Anybody else actually disappointed that Kaidan wasn't abducted at Horizon? Because I really would have liked a massive reason to care about this suicide mission I was on. I mean, yeah, okay, my Shepard does care about millions of humans being abducted and wants to thwart whatever plans the Reapers have in store for her, but I'm talking me, personally, the player. I wanted emotional investment.

[UrbanPhoenix]

How do you guys think they are going to integrate Kaidan into ME3?

[meonlyred]

Oh TIM is totally behind the rumors, plus when Shepard asks about her former team, he tells her that he doesn't know where Kaidan is. I'm calling BS on that. He knew where to find everyone else HE wanted on Shepard's team.

I believe TIM wanted Shepard all for himself and was trying to keep her away from old friends that could help her escape Cerberus' watchful eye. In the mission summary for Garrus it is stated that the they identity of Archangel as Garrus was unexpected but it should help keep Shepard complacent makes me believe he really didn't want Garrus with Shepard. Same thing with the summary for LotSB saying that the relationship with Liara should be watched closely. The game hints at, if not flat out says Miranda is there to keep an eye on Shepard and Jacob is there as a stabilizing element. To bad they end up being loyal to Shepard not him.

If Kaidan had joined Shepard's team then there is no way he would let Shepard keep the Collect base. TIM wants to be in a position to control and manipulate Shepard so she will give him what he wants. I'm sure he did everything in his power to keep her away from him and the Alliance. Then again I could be paranoid.

EDIT

Pacifien wrote...

Anybody else actually disappointed that Kaidan wasn't
abducted at Horizon? Because I really would have liked a massive reason
to care about this suicide mission I was on. I mean, yeah, okay, my
Shepard does care about millions of humans being abducted and wants to
thwart whatever plans the Reapers have in store for her, but I'm talking
me, personally, the player. I wanted emotional investment.

I actually thought that was how Horizon was going to end. My first play through I was sitting on the floor in front of my TV screaming at Shepard to move that ass.

Użytkownik meonlyred edytował ten post 08 styczeń 2011 - 09:34

[jillyfae]

@Pac: I think that was specifically a neck-snap joke, there. What with how Vyrnuus died, and all. ^_~

@Jhourney: I do think there should have been more variety in possible reactions to Horizon, especially for import players who potentially had developed a relationship with either Alenko or Williams. The streamlined reactions are the real reason I think the idea (I liked) resulted in a a specific scene which I didn't.

[sapphyreelf]

Pacifien wrote...

Anybody else actually disappointed that Kaidan wasn't abducted at Horizon? Because I really would have liked a massive reason to care about this suicide mission I was on. I mean, yeah, okay, my Shepard does care about millions of humans being abducted and wants to thwart whatever plans the Reapers have in store for her, but I'm talking me, personally, the player. I wanted emotional investment.

Where I adore Shenzi's Just Because Horizon story where she did abduct Kaidan, I am glad that he wasn't. I would have hated for their to be a way to get the VS killed, again. Because there would have had to be a consequence that ended with their death - since in no way can you save Lilith (the recognizable Horizon abductee).

Edit: Plus, as much as I adore Kaidan, I hate the fact that they keep making us save the VS for one reason or another. They are trained marines too. Let's see them doing something awesome, instead of Shepard being their hero constantly.

Użytkownik sapphyreelf edytował ten post 08 styczeń 2011 - 09:32

[Sandtigress]

Pacifien wrote...

Anybody else actually disappointed that Kaidan wasn't abducted at Horizon? Because I really would have liked a massive reason to care about this suicide mission I was on. I mean, yeah, okay, my Shepard does care about millions of humans being abducted and wants to thwart whatever plans the Reapers have in store for her, but I'm talking me, personally, the player. I wanted emotional investment.

No!  To save the crew you have to head to the Collectors' base right away.  I mean, we got to see Lillith liquefied, but the likelihood would be pretty good that you/many players would get there too late to save him.    I thought there was enough reason for my (paragon) Shepard just to save her crew and make sure it didn't happen to anyone else.

[Jhourney]

Pacifien wrote...

Anybody else actually disappointed that Kaidan wasn't abducted at Horizon? Because I really would have liked a massive reason to care about this suicide mission I was on. I mean, yeah, okay, my Shepard does care about millions of humans being abducted and wants to thwart whatever plans the Reapers have in store for her, but I'm talking me, personally, the player. I wanted emotional investment.

Always thought that would be the case after viewing the ME2 trailer pre-release tbh. Part of me wanted that to happen as well, what an adrenaline rush that would have been. Now THAT would have been truly "emotionally engaging" lol

[Pacifien]

AntiChri5 wrote...
Do any of you find Jack's backstory simply an overdone version of Kaidan's?

Jack's story in comparison to Kaidan's is something I can understand. Kaidan's training was the Alliance fumbling in the dark while Jack's story was the Cerberus making the dark its ****.

It's Miranda's story that I think undermines Kaidan's. Kaidan is one of the original biotics and his story is intertwined with humanity trying to learn about these new abilities and making mistakes. Miranda... just has biotics. Just because. And she's good at them. Just because.

Użytkownik Pacifien edytował ten post 08 styczeń 2011 - 09:32

[Sandtigress]

AntiChri5 wrote...

I, as a Jack fan, have a question for the more devoted Kaidan fans.

Do any of you find Jack's backstory simply an overdone version of Kaidan's?

.

Actually, the thought never crossed my mind, though I definitely see the parallels when you point them out.  A large part of that though is that my Shepard is an earthborn adept.  Jack's story seemed like what hers could have been - a poor kid taken for experimental purposes.  She went through a rough childhood too, so in a lot of ways she's Jack's foil in my game - Jack is what she could have been, were she not as lucky as she had been, and in some sense as resilient as she was.

Since she's a paragon, Jack's the nightmare she's trying to avoid, all the while hoping that something in Jack might be redeemable because of all the similarities she sees between them.

[sapphyreelf]

AntiChri5 wrote...

I, as a Jack fan, have a question for the more devoted Kaidan fans.

Do any of you find Jack's backstory simply an overdone version of Kaidan's?

They were both taken when young and abused in an attempt to create a powerful biotic, they both only escaped that when they killed their tormentor and ended the program and they both wound up working for those who started the program.

I see the differences between Jack and Kaidan as somewhat indicative of the difference between The Alliance and Cerberus.

No, I see the similarities in their situations, but I don't find that one outdoes, or overshadows, the others. I think they show the perils of what could happen. Especially in the extreme case with Jack.

[Mr.House]

Pacifien wrote...
Jack's story in comparison to Kaidan's is something I can understand. Kaidan's training was the Alliance fumbling in the dark while Jack's story was the Cerberus making the dark its ****.

It's Miranda's story that I think undermines Kaidan's. Kaidan is one of the original biotics and his story is intertwined with humanity trying to learn about these new abilities and making mistakes. Miranda... just has biotics. Just because. And she's good at them. Just because.

Miranda's biotics are the reason why she was being replaced, but this is not the Miranda board so I won't get into this debate right now XD

Some Kaidan fans know that I consider Miri to be a more harden version of Kaidan, but that's just me.

*If you want to ask why I think so Paci just pm me or bring this up in the Mirandat hread *

Użytkownik Mr.House edytował ten post 08 styczeń 2011 - 09:37

[BECC4]

The one thing I don't get is why people think Kaidan is out of order for doubting Shep. Let's face it this isn't D&D, resurrection isn't exactly the norm. If the person you loved and trusted more than anyone else in the world, disappeared without a word, made u think they were dead then suddenly showed up and was all "Yeah I died but they er brought me back to life."

I don't think it's unreasonable for that person to doubt them, remember no one, absolutely no one has ever been brought back to life from the dead up until this point. Even from the mighty Commander Shepard this would be hard to swallow.

[Shenzi]

BECC4 wrote...

The one thing I don't get is why people think Kaidan is out of order for doubting Shep. Let's face it this isn't D&D, resurrection isn't exactly the norm. If the person you loved and trusted more than anyone else in the world, disappeared without a word, made u think they were dead then suddenly showed up and was all "Yeah I died but they er brought me back to life."
I don't think it's unreasonable for that person to doubt them, remember no one, absolutely no one has ever been brought back to life from the dead up until this point. Even from the mighty Commander Shepard this would be hard to swallow.

Actually this issue in general caused me to *facepalm* quite a bit, couldn't they have come up with something a bit more believable than resurrection for ME2?

[Chignon]

BECC4 wrote...

Why is it so unreasonable for Shep to turn into a babbling moron on Horizon?

It's not unreasonable and I understand that perfectly.

What I think is unreasonable, however, is that Shepard shows not even a hint of emotion. No joy at finding Kaidan alive and well, no concern for how he may have felt at seeing her/him again, no anger or sadness at his accusations - I could go on. There is simply nothing.

[Pacifien]

Well, my Shepard did tell Joker she didn't need that garbage, so there was some anger in that.

[Sialater]

Pacifien wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...
Do any of you find Jack's backstory simply an overdone version of Kaidan's?

Jack's story in comparison to Kaidan's is something I can understand. Kaidan's training was the Alliance fumbling in the dark while Jack's story was the Cerberus making the dark its ****.

It's Miranda's story that I think undermines Kaidan's. Kaidan is one of the original biotics and his story is intertwined with humanity trying to learn about these new abilities and making mistakes. Miranda... just has biotics. Just because. And she's good at them. Just because.

This.

I love Miranda, but this didn't do him or her any favors.

Użytkownik Sialater edytował ten post 08 styczeń 2011 - 09:44

[Jhourney]

Shenzi wrote...

BECC4 wrote...

The one thing I don't get is why people think Kaidan is out of order for doubting Shep. Let's face it this isn't D&D, resurrection isn't exactly the norm. If the person you loved and trusted more than anyone else in the world, disappeared without a word, made u think they were dead then suddenly showed up and was all "Yeah I died but they er brought me back to life."
I don't think it's unreasonable for that person to doubt them, remember no one, absolutely no one has ever been brought back to life from the dead up until this point. Even from the mighty Commander Shepard this would be hard to swallow.

Actually this issue in general caused me to *facepalm* quite a bit, couldn't they have come up with something a bit more believable than resurrection for ME2?

Ditto....here's to hoping they won't press the same reset button for ME3. ME3 is SR-3? ....oh gosh...no, just no.

[Mr.House]

Chignon wrote...
It's not unreasonable and I understand that perfectly.

What I think is unreasonable, however, is that Shepard shows not even a hint of emotion. No joy at finding Kaidan alive and well, no concern for how he may have felt at seeing her/him again, no anger or sadness at his accusations - I could go on. There is simply nothing.

This! I would forgive the scene if Shepard at least showed some emotion, but all we get is her/he acting like a robot and says how you doing!

It was a a badly writen scene.

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

Pacifien wrote...

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...
Hmm... There should be a NSAS for Kaidan?

That would be KAAS.

Hehe, I meant a Neck Snap Appreciation Society for Kaidan (NSAS is the title for Thane's fangroup.) His turian necksnapping vengeance must be publicised more!

As for parallels between Jack's backstory and Kaidan's. Jack was a single anomoly in biotic ability, and despite the horrible torture she had to endure, her biotics were enhanced. It's evident that anger fuels her biotics due to Cerberus' actions against her, whereas Kaidan's backstory was an experimental study with many people. But his biotic training was corrupted by someone who was biased against humans, and that was what caused his unhappy backstory. That, and unrequited love (in my opinion anyway, someone who loved Kaidan back would have stuck with him, despite his necksnapping.)

[Mr.House]

Pacifien wrote...

Well, my Shepard did tell Joker she didn't need that garbage, so there was some anger in that.

That was the best part of the whole secene but I would prefer Shepard would have showen emotion with Kaidan.

[Ieldra]

Mr.House wrote...

Pacifien wrote...
Jack's story in comparison to Kaidan's is something I can understand. Kaidan's training was the Alliance fumbling in the dark while Jack's story was the Cerberus making the dark its ****.

It's Miranda's story that I think undermines Kaidan's. Kaidan is one of the original biotics and his story is intertwined with humanity trying to learn about these new abilities and making mistakes. Miranda... just has biotics. Just because. And she's good at them. Just because.

Miranda's biotics are the reason why she was being replaced, but this is not the Miranda board so I won't get into this debate right now XD

I would like you to bring this to the Miranda thread, because I don't agree with you here.

Some Kaidan fans know that I consider Miri to be a more harden version of Kaidan, but that's just me.

That is an interesting idea. Please elaborate. Probably best discussed in the Miranda thread as well, but it may be of interest here....