8324 réponses à ce sujet

[Chignon]

FireEye wrote...

And so is random action in the field.  :innocent:

[Aggie Punbot]

Shenzi wrote...

This actually made me laugh and I usually don't read Horizon one shots on ff.net but I follow the author's Alien 3 A/U fic.

Shepard yells back:

http://www.fanfictio...nown_as_Horizon

"Story Not Found"

[AmyBA]

Pacifien wrote...

Curious to know, do you think the fault in Horizon has to do with how Kaidan is written (as in, do you think he was out of character) or in the way Shepard was written? Because I really understood Kaidan's anger, and felt it was in keeping with his character, but none of the responses from Shepard would be what my Shepards would have said. Way too passive on her part.

I am a little late to the game, so I dunno if this counts any more but I think there are a few things that bothered me about Horizon.

One is Kaidans dialog. I agree that he has a right to be upset, and I understand him saying things he doesnt mean because its in the heat of the moment, and some of the things he said were spot on and appropriate.

But the thing that really ticked me off were lines like "I thought you were dead! How could you put me through that?" and  "I thought we had something real Shepard! I loved you!" or "You've changed, but I still know where my loyalties lie."

I get that hes been living with these rumors and hearing all kinds of things, and is shocked to see her actually alive and probably has all these things running through his head about whats been happening, but if he really honestly loves her and trusts her, why is he so damn quick to accuse and assume the worst of the rumors is true and NOT stop and ask her to explain herself? Why doesnt he instead go "Hey, what the hell! I heard rumors about you being a live all this time, tell me this crap they are saying isnt true, whats really going on?" Because he does not even HESITATE to believe everything hes heard about the woman he loves so dearly before even letting her have the chance to speak or explain herself.

And hell, he knows where his loyalties lie? He was willing to mutiany and steal an alliance ship, putting his rank and career on the line for Shepard. And yet now he is having NO trouble believing every terrible rumor there is floating around about her.

I love my husband, more than life itself. He is in the military and we've been put through a lot because of it. Putting myself in their shoes, knowing how much I care about my husband, I would NEVER say something like that or jump to conclusions. My first reaction would be "Oh my god, you are ok, you are alive!" then a lot of confusion and something a long the lines of "Ok, now tell me what the hell is going on from your side of it, because I have heard some crazy **** here and I need to know the truth NOW!"

I've spoke to women and men who have had their spouses/lovers go missing in action, having no idea where they are or whats happening to them. If something similar happened, if it turned out they were alive and doing something else, they wouldn't be so quick to lambast them over it, they would for sure wait for their spouses side of the story first, because all they care about is that the person they love is alive.

And then there is Shepard. I think Shepard would have honestly stuck up for herself more. When trying to mention to him that she WAS actually dead, she barely speaks up and says much about it, she doesn't explain that it was only a week or so before that she was brought back, AGAINST HER WILL, she doesnt get upset and tell him "Hey, I love you too, I did try to find you but no one would tell me where you were!" She doesn't try to point out that the only people willing to support her and give her a ship and the leeway to do what she needs is the terrorist group she hates the most, because the damn alliance had her out just moping up geth instead of seriously looking into the reapers.

There were just a lot of things that felt off about it. I expected Kaidan to be upset, but I didn't expect him to treat my Shepard like he never really trusted her in the first place, and I expected my Shepard would be a little soft on him, considering the circumstances, but I also thought she would at least TRY to defend her position a little better, instead of kind of shrugging it off and keeping her mouth shut.

Modifié par AmyBA, 09 janvier 2011 - 03:33 .

[Melindil]

Oh man, new thread party! <3


by diraemythos on DA

Modifié par Melindil, 09 janvier 2011 - 03:29 .

[Batlass8]

AmyBA wrote...

I expected Kaidan to be upset, but I didn't expect him to treat my Shepard like he never really trusted her in the first place, and I expected my Shepard would be a little soft on him, considering the circumstances, but I also thought she would at least TRY to defend her position a little better, instead of kind of shrugging it off and keeping her mouth shut.

And in one independent clause, all of my issues with Horizon are succintly summed up. 

[Chignon]

I realise opinions may differ but I don't blame Kaidan for how he reacted. At all.

How can you expect him to trust Shepard when s/he turns up after supposedly having died two years ago with the very same organisation that is responsible for Kahoku's death, the deaths of the colonists on Chasca. torturing and experimenting on Toombs, killing Sole Survivor Shepard's unit on Akuze - among other things - with no better explanation than "I died, but Cerberus resurrected me and now I'm working with, not for them, to fight the Collectors."?

Modifié par Chignon, 09 janvier 2011 - 03:56 .

[Batlass8]

It's not that I expected him to trust Shepard again with no reservations, but his reaction made it seem like he never really had faith in her at all, which is a complete 180 from ME1 Kaidan.

[Melindil]

Chignon wrote...

I realise opinions may differ but I don't blame Kaidan for how he reacted. At all.

How can you expect him to trust Shepard when s/he turns up after supposedly having died two years ago with the very same organisation that is responsible for Kahoku's death, the deaths of the colonists on Chasca. torturing and experimenting on Toombs, killing Sole Survivor Shepard's unit on Akuze - among other things - with no better explanation than "I died, but Cerberus resurrected me and now I'm working with, not for them, to fight the Collectors."?

This.  Add in the fact that Shepard showing up on Horizon with Cerberus after the attack probably seems sketchy as hell to someone on the outside looking in, and I think it goes far in justifying Kaidan's reaction.

[AmyBA]

Batlass8 wrote...

It's not that I expected him to trust Shepard again with no reservations, but his reaction made it seem like he never really had faith in her at all, which is a complete 180 from ME1 Kaidan.

Yes, that is exactly my point too. I expect him to be upset, and I expect him to have reservations.

But he doesnt even try to get to the bottom of it or even ask her her side of it. He automatically assumes the women he loves more than anything is wrong and every bad rumor is true and that there is no explaining it.

And to make it clear, I don't blame Kaidan, at all, I think as part of Kaidan character, he WOULD have asked Shepard her side first before jumping on her and assuming the worst. He may have still been hesitant and had issues and been confused/reluctant, but I don't think he would have in no way reacted entirely in the way he did. It was written the way it was to fit both Ashley and Kaidan, and for story and game play reasons, not so much because it is what Kaidan would have really done. Which is why Horizon bothers me so.

Modifié par AmyBA, 09 janvier 2011 - 04:23 .

[Terastar]

Pacifien I found this for you.

Writing credits

(in alphabetical order)

Drew Karpyshyn lead writer

Lukas Kristjanson

Mike Laidlaw

Chris L'Etoile

Mac Walters

Patrick Weekes



This is all I could find.

[leggywillow]

AmyBA wrote...

Batlass8 wrote...

It's not that I expected him to trust Shepard again with no reservations, but his reaction made it seem like he never really had faith in her at all, which is a complete 180 from ME1 Kaidan.

Yes, that is exactly my point too. I expect him to be upset, and I expect him to have reservations.

But he doesnt even try to get to the bottom of it or even ask her her side of it. He automatically assumes the women he loves more than anything is wrong and every bad rumor is true and that there is no explaining it.

Maybe I'm just a terrible person, but I totally understand that reaction.  In moments of emotional confusion, yeah, I will unfairly bite off my husband's head and be a completely unreasonable ***** until I cool down.  And I've obviously never had my husband be declared killed in action and then show up 2 years later working with terrorists, so I can't even imagine how badly I'd blow up at him in THAT scenario.

I bet Kaidan regretted what he said very shortly after he walked away, probably as soon as he saw Shepard's shuttle take off.

I do think the reaction was a little intense for the Kaidan we knew in ME1... it would've been in character for me, but I'm quite a bit more hotheaded than Kaidan.  But I also think there might be some genius in that: his heated reaction shows just how much Shepard's death affected him.  He isn't the same person he was 2 years ago.

[meonlyred]

AmyBA wrote...
Why doesnt he instead go "Hey, what the hell! I heard rumors about you being a live all this time, tell me this crap they are saying isnt true, whats really going on?" "Oh my god, you are ok, you are alive!" "Ok, now tell me what the hell is going on from your side of it, because I have heard some crazy **** here and I need to know the truth NOW!"

First: AMY!! *tackle*

Second: I think what I hate most is not matter your choice of dialog whether the passive paragon or the angry renegade he says the exact same thing, with little to no variation.

Third: Thank god for wonderful art and fanfic to get us through til ME3.

From our wonderful Ladywinde

[AmyBA]

meonlyred wrote...


First: AMY!! *tackle*

Second: I think what I hate most is not matter your choice of dialog whether the passive paragon or the angry renegade he says the exact same thing, with little to no variation.

lol. *blush*


And I agree, I think maybe varying the response a bit would have made it a bit easier for me. Try to keep to the paragon for my Shep that romanced him made it worse. Being all like "Oh hey dude, wassup?" She was more emotional to see Garrus FFS....

Like I said before, I didn't expect him to be all "Oh cool, no probs and whatevs, it will be like old times again just like that." I just couldn't believe how easy he was to think I would seriously go that long without contacting him!

But either way, whatever anyone thinks, it was a good way to make us get all emotionally riled up and more into the game and determined to see what happens in ME3. XD

[meonlyred]

What I wonder is will what you say to Kelly after Horizon will have any effect on ME3? I still hold out there is weird with Kelly, it might just me reading to much into it, but the whole story that she was hand picked by TIM and she is there as Shepard's personal assistant and all that, kind of gives me a creepy feeling about her. It made me want to have Shepard lie to her and tell her that her feelings for Kaidan are in the past. Then again I'm paranoid about anything involving Cerberus. Especially after reading the books.

Modifié par meonlyred, 09 janvier 2011 - 06:37 .

[AmyBA]

meonlyred wrote...

What I wonder is will what you say to Kelly after Horizon will have any effect on ME3? I still hold out there is weird with Kelly, it might just me reading to much into it, but the whole story that she was hand picked by TIM and she is there as Shepard's personal assistant and all that, kind of gives me a creepy feeling about her. It made me want to have Shepard lie to her and tell her that her feelings for Kaidan are in the past. Then again I'm paranoid about anything involving Cerberus. Especially after reading the books.

I don't think Kelly is any more malicious than Jacob or Miranda. Weird? Yes. Ditsy? Yes. Niave? Totally. But not so much untrust worthy. Hell, Edi was programmed and designed by Cerberus, but I trust her quite a bit. XD

BTW Red, you have an email you should check! Just dont laugh at me too much.

Modifié par AmyBA, 09 janvier 2011 - 06:47 .

[meonlyred]

FINALLY!

Here are some of mine. They are all shot one-shots. Zody Shepard's story I'll upload once I get it finished 77 pages and counting...

[AmyBA]

Don't worry, I will send more later, the one I sent is pretty short, AND deals with Kaidan and Horizon. XD

Its the only one I feel "okay" about for now. I am working on the others.

Its not easy for me writing fan fic that has romance or romantic undertones in it.

Maybe if I ever feel confident enough I will share my Shep and Shep/Kaidan stories with the rest of the the ME boards, lol.

Modifié par AmyBA, 09 janvier 2011 - 06:58 .

[meonlyred]

I'm a horrible influence on you, I still can't believe I converted you into a Kaidan fan. *Laughs evilly*



If I feel confident enough to post my murderous attempt at writing the english language you can to!

[AmyBA]

To be fair, I never had a problem with Kaidan and always liked him just fine, his skills were very valuable to my team! I just never really romanced him, or even did much of the romance thing to begin with until you kept talking about it so much and got me curious, lol. XD



Kaidan is a good dude, hes got a heart of gold. Can't really go wrong there on any level, no matter the relationship.

[swirlwind]

My problem with the encounter on Horizon is two-fold. First, there's the dialogue that makes me feel like both Kaidan and Shepard are somewhat OC because the plot requires for them to part at that point. Kaidan is more suspicious and distrustful towards Shepard than is perhaps reasonable, especially when compared with the reactions of her other former team members. Shepard's lines are almost ridiculously dispassionate. It's almost like the game doesn't recognise her part of the romance at all. I know my Shepard was frantic when combing through Horizon looking for Kaidan, and by the end she was sure he had been taken, and when he finally shows up, there's no way my Shepard would've merely said "It's been too long". But the plot required it, and that's what we got.



Second, the letter Shepard receives from Kaidan after Horizon. I understand him trying to hurt her when first coming face-to-face with the situation, but after he's had time to think about it a bit more, the best he can come up with is "maybe... I don't know"? It's not like Shepard's life really allows for lulls in the action. She's there to stop the Reapers, and no one knows if that can even be done. Kaidan used to be a part of the action in ME, so he should know better than to expect things to cool down before trying to resolve the situation with Shepard.



Most of my femSheps moved on, because they needed someone to have their back then and there, not sometime in the future, maybe. Kaidan's reaction was such a breech of trust between them that I had a hard time keeping any Shepards loyal to him at all. I sincerely hope there will be a (LotSB-esque) DLC that addresses the relationship between Shepard and Kaidan (or Shepard and Ashley), because as it is, it's a travesty of what they had in ME1.

[Nightodie]

TBH I am not doing Horizon. I don't do it. Both sides are right. Yes they are OOC and Yes he should have listened. Yes she should have had better lines and Yes she should have had the choice of not joining Cerberus. Yes he should feel that way. Yes she should feel that way. And because of all this, we have Fan Fic. (the link is in my sig)



That being said, I hope for some more Kaidan in ME3 and maybe something in the next DLC to tide us over. a limerick, a note, some Shadow Broker file or *gasp* an actual appearence.



We can dream....

[mineralica]

Also my two cents:

I'm okay with Kaidan being distrustful (I'm distrustful to the story we were told in ME2, too). I'm not at all agree with all those "loved" and betrayed (and after I've seen perfectly logical Ashley reaction - woman was completely in characters, but dialogues are almost identical and I have a nasty suspition).

For "Maybe... I don't know" I'll repeat someone else's words that Kaidan hasn't got the reason to believe that Shepard hasn't moved on. Imagine the scene: Shepard is in Jacob's arms and then Kaidan appears after Horizon saying: "Let's be lovers again!". I don't want to know how many hysterical "How he dare to claim anything like this after Horizon!!!eleven" would happen after this. Plus, I'm looking forward to scene where Shepard could prove that his suggestions were right.

For "need someone to watch my back... it's the most complicated part. Unluckily, Shepard doesn't know she's in video game and majority of mine are very upset. But searching for someone right after they were "dumped" - this isn't fair, as for me. Not so unfair towards to Kaidan who, as some people think, deserved this, but for LI from ME2 who apparently got their attention only because Shepard needed someone to watch her back. Again, it's only "as for me" and I admit that viewpoints may vary.

[swirlwind]

Brodyaha wrote...

Kaidan's distrustful, sure, but he has every right to be.  I would be suspicious if a former friend/lover turned up alive after being assumed dead for two years.  But if he reacts that way, and he sends an email later apologizing for it, then I would trust his judgement more because he's had time to think about it.

I agree with what you said about Garrus and Tali, although I think Tali's recruitment mission is less indicative of her feelings towards Shepard's resurrection and relationship with Cerberus than her initial encounter with her/him on Freedom's Progress. She hates Cerberus, even more so after what Cerberus did on the flotilla, but she's still willing to trust Shepard's judgement. And that's what really irks me with Kaidan's response. He's basically accusing Shepard of being a gullible idiot for believing Cerberus. His stance is that of the Council, who never really accepted Shepard's claims about the Reapers. And that's what hurts, especially if Shepard has the Survivor background. I always wanted the option to just say "You really think I just took their damn word for it, after everything they've done? You really think I didn't demand proof, to see it with my own eyes?", but that option is not available. 

Brodyaha wrote...
Kaidan likes to leave a way out.  Shepard's been dead for two years, and other than an angry encounter on Horizon, he doesn't know what's going on in his/her life.  I think his email is trying to say, "I love you, and I would like to try things again, but I know a relationship might not be on your agenda now.  I want you to know that you have my support, and maybe we can figure things out once the Reapers are dealt with."

I agree, that's probably what it tries to say. However, it's not what it says, and for me, that's important. There's no way out for Shepard, she has to stop the Collectors before she can give Cerberus the boot, and after that, she has to fight the Reapers. And after having had to face her mortality, she has to understand there are no guarantees about anything. Every day in her life is full of fighting, and as she puts it, her enemies threaten galaxies. Either you jump on the train and ride it, or you drop out, which is essentially what Kaidan did. Yes, he's fully entitled to do so, but it also makes my Shepard think he never really understood her or loved her at all to begin with. And yes, it's a selfish point of view, but after saving his (and everyone else's) life a few times, I think she's entitled to a little selfishness.

Brodyaha wrote...
Edit: if you wish, you can join the Kaidan and Ashley DLC Support Group.  There's 690 members so far.  The link is in my signature bar.

Thanks I'll pass, though. I try to only join groups I have time to actively participate in, and even now I have more on my plate in that regard than I have time. 

[NamiraWilhelm]

{lip quivers} n-new thread!

S'all good... we can be proud we've had so much love it couldnt fit in two threads!
Anyhoo:
/uploads_user/1683000/1682197/63234.jpg

Modifié par NamiraWilhelm, 09 janvier 2011 - 09:27 .