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[Chignon]

swirlwind wrote...

[...], but she's still willing to trust Shepard's judgement. And that's what really irks me with Kaidan's response. He's basically accusing Shepard of being a gullible idiot for believing Cerberus. His stance is that of the Council, who never really accepted Shepard's claims about the Reapers. And that's what hurts, especially if Shepard has the Survivor background. I always wanted the option to just say "You really think I just took their damn word for it, after everything they've done? You really think I didn't demand proof, to see it with my own eyes?", but that option is not available.

He is supposed to take her word for it that she did not just take Cerberus's word for it? For obvious reasons that doesn't seem like a very reasonable thing to do.

His stance on the Reapers is not discussed once on Horizon - all he says is in regards to Cerberus, "Maybe they are using the threat of the Reapers to manipulate you."

I agree with you on more and varied dialogue options, though.

EDIT

Modifié par Chignon, 09 janvier 2011 - 10:50 .

[Shenzi]

TS2Aggie wrote...

Shenzi wrote...

This actually made me laugh and I usually don't read Horizon one shots on ff.net but I follow the author's Alien 3 A/U fic.

Shepard yells back:

http://www.fanfictio...nown_as_Horizon

"Story Not Found"

FF.net has been having problems with disappearing stories and reviews over the last week.  If something is missing, just wait a little while and it reappears.

[BECC4]

What Chignon said, I never once got the impression Kaidan did still believe in or actively support the fact there was a reaper threat, more that he couldn't understand how Shep could be working for a known terrorist organisation that they'd both been seen evidence of them committing various atrocities.



But like many have said it all comes down to how you play your Shepards, personally although I may not have been totally happy with the outcome or the dialogue, I can explain it in a way that allows me to RP it.

[Shenzi]

Nightodie wrote...

TBH I am not doing Horizon. I don't do it. Both sides are right. Yes they are OOC and Yes he should have listened. Yes she should have had better lines and Yes she should have had the choice of not joining Cerberus. Yes he should feel that way. Yes she should feel that way. And because of all this, we have Fan Fic. (the link is in my sig)

That being said, I hope for some more Kaidan in ME3 and maybe something in the next DLC to tide us over. a limerick, a note, some Shadow Broker file or *gasp* an actual appearence.

We can dream....

QFT

I've had my fill of discussing Horizon for 2011 over the course of the first few pages of the new KAST thread and won't be going back there again.

[Eliantariel]

I am more bothered with Shepards dialogue options than with Kaidans dialogue. In the first response, if you select the paragon (upper) answer, Shep is saying something like "Oh I don't contact you because it is so much time gone and I didn't want to hurt your feelings" - I selected it only once and never again... unfortunately you cannot save just before the dialogue to test different options.

But concerning Kaidans reaction, I cannot really blame him. You have to consider that he acts just human and I suppose I would have react similar. It is different if you know a situation and if you plan what you are going to say or if you are thinking about it in a calm and reasonable way, but if you are overwhelmed by your feelings, sometimes people tend to say things or to react different than they have would if they had time to think about everything and to calm down. And if you are disappointed or angry about someone you really like or love it is sometimes even more intense because your feelings for this person are already very strong.

Don't forget that Cerberus/TIM was spreading rumors about Shepard being alive some time ago and I suppose that Shepard did spend some time on the space station until they started with the new Normandy. The Normandy had to be named and surely some preparations done before they could start. So it is more than a week, I suppose 1-2 months after the resurrection when Kaidan and Shepard met.

I think it is really hard to believe that Shepard was resurrected, and I always wonder why everyone in the game just accepts it so easily. With the rumors that Shepard is working for Cerberus, I can understand that Kaidan wonders about Shepards intentions. Because he has strong feelings for Shepard (even if not romanced, as friend) he is worried about her, but he also remembers what happend to Saren in ME1. Shepard may be a hero but how can he be 100% sure that she won't be manipulated by Cerberus like Saren by Sovereign?

That he left without really giving Shepard the chance to explain everything can be just because he is angry, worried, confused, got nearly abducted by the collectors and maybe still in love (if romanced) all at the same time. This is really much for a human to experience. I think it is like he is escaping from this place to come to sense again. The e-mail he sent later shows me that he had time to think about everything, to calm down and he is sorry about what happened. He tries to explain how this could happen and that he has still strong feelings for Shepard.

His e-mail should have sent (with a different text, but with the same message behind this) to all Shepards, not only if you romanced him. If not romanced, he is worried about Shepard as a friend.

And the "I loved you" line is in my understanding a self protection of Kaidan. Of course he is still in love with Shepard (I would interprete his whole reaction and the e-mail that he is) but there is his fear that Shepard could have changed and not longer love him or maybe never loved him (depending on how you play your Shepard this may be true or not, but still I think it is just human to doubt or fear even if there is no reason for this, like someone that reacts jealous even if there is no reason for this). I suppose in this situation he is too confused to know what he currently feels, but he knows what he felt the whole time.

With this scene at Horizon, Kaidan acts maybe more human/realistic than every other character in the whole game.

And I must say, I really missed more dialogue from all the squadmates, escpecially those from ME1 about Shepards connection to Cerberus.

[Sialater]

Shenzi wrote...

Nightodie wrote...

TBH I am not doing Horizon. I don't do it. Both sides are right. Yes they are OOC and Yes he should have listened. Yes she should have had better lines and Yes she should have had the choice of not joining Cerberus. Yes he should feel that way. Yes she should feel that way. And because of all this, we have Fan Fic. (the link is in my sig)

That being said, I hope for some more Kaidan in ME3 and maybe something in the next DLC to tide us over. a limerick, a note, some Shadow Broker file or *gasp* an actual appearence.

We can dream....

QFT

I've had my fill of discussing Horizon for 2011 over the course of the first few pages of the new KAST thread and won't be going back there again.

You, too, huhn?  I haven't even posted in the new thread yet since I have no desire to revisit Horizon.  I said my piece in fic.

Modifié par Sialater, 09 janvier 2011 - 02:00 .

[Eliantariel]

Sialater wrote...

Shenzi wrote...

Nightodie wrote...

TBH I am not doing Horizon. I don't do it. Both sides are right. Yes they are OOC and Yes he should have listened. Yes she should have had better lines and Yes she should have had the choice of not joining Cerberus. Yes he should feel that way. Yes she should feel that way. And because of all this, we have Fan Fic. (the link is in my sig)

That being said, I hope for some more Kaidan in ME3 and maybe something in the next DLC to tide us over. a limerick, a note, some Shadow Broker file or *gasp* an actual appearence.

We can dream....

QFT

I've had my fill of discussing Horizon for 2011 over the course of the first few pages of the new KAST thread and won't be going back there again.

You, too, huhn?  I haven't even posted in the new thread yet since I have no desire to revisit Horizon.  I said my piece in fic.

Totally understandable, but this topic will come up from time to time again, because there are new people joining this thread/discussion who haven't talked about Horizon yet and who would like to discuss it. Horizon is not really what people wished to see after playing ME1 and starting ME2....

[Selenora]

I dont bother with Horizon.............not anymore............mostly coz of the ppl in this tread that somehow made me see the logic behind the scene ( most of you know my reaction to Horizon the first time i've seen it )

What bothers me is the inbetween ME2 and ME3. I remember ppl talking about 1 year where Shep is out of grip. Is she in a coma? Is she trapped inside the relay? Is she in jail? Is she kidnaped? Why is she unavailable? and what that means regarding her relationship with Kaidan?

We already had 2 years apart. 1 more year would be a disaster even if there is a DLC to short things out. Somehow i cant imagine her telling Kaidan, after they reconcile in case we do have a VS DLC, that she needs to dissapear again but she will be back (ala Terminator....astalavista baby style) and him accepting it. The only thing i can see is that he will ask her to take him with her, and i know that will not be the case.

That's what bothers me.

[Sialater]

Eliantariel wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Shenzi wrote...

Nightodie wrote...

TBH I am not doing Horizon. I don't do it. Both sides are right. Yes they are OOC and Yes he should have listened. Yes she should have had better lines and Yes she should have had the choice of not joining Cerberus. Yes he should feel that way. Yes she should feel that way. And because of all this, we have Fan Fic. (the link is in my sig)

That being said, I hope for some more Kaidan in ME3 and maybe something in the next DLC to tide us over. a limerick, a note, some Shadow Broker file or *gasp* an actual appearence.

We can dream....

QFT

I've had my fill of discussing Horizon for 2011 over the course of the first few pages of the new KAST thread and won't be going back there again.

You, too, huhn?  I haven't even posted in the new thread yet since I have no desire to revisit Horizon.  I said my piece in fic.

Totally understandable, but this topic will come up from time to time again, because there are new people joining this thread/discussion who haven't talked about Horizon yet and who would like to discuss it. Horizon is not really what people wished to see after playing ME1 and starting ME2....

That's fine.  Discuss it all you want.  I don't begrudge it.  I'll just be over here staring at Jho's pinups till y'all are done.

[Aslanasadi]

Actually I'm not sure about the timeline. I had several discussion about it with friends, but we came to no result. It could be only a few month until the Reapers are starting their attack....



In a way I hope the next DLC might lightens up the story a little bit and tells us what's going on after Shepard defeated the Collectors...



But anyway I have really hope that everything will work out fine for Kaidan and my Shepard *looks through her pink glasses and a bright smile crosses her face*

[Aslanasadi]

Ah, Sia! Nice picture ...lol...my favorite three men

[Shenzi]

Sialater wrote...

Eliantariel wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Shenzi wrote...

Nightodie wrote...

TBH I am not doing Horizon. I don't do it. Both sides are right. Yes they are OOC and Yes he should have listened. Yes she should have had better lines and Yes she should have had the choice of not joining Cerberus. Yes he should feel that way. Yes she should feel that way. And because of all this, we have Fan Fic. (the link is in my sig)

That being said, I hope for some more Kaidan in ME3 and maybe something in the next DLC to tide us over. a limerick, a note, some Shadow Broker file or *gasp* an actual appearence.

We can dream....

QFT

I've had my fill of discussing Horizon for 2011 over the course of the first few pages of the new KAST thread and won't be going back there again.

You, too, huhn?  I haven't even posted in the new thread yet since I have no desire to revisit Horizon.  I said my piece in fic.

Totally understandable, but this topic will come up from time to time again, because there are new people joining this thread/discussion who haven't talked about Horizon yet and who would like to discuss it. Horizon is not really what people wished to see after playing ME1 and starting ME2....

That's fine.  Discuss it all you want.  I don't begrudge it.  I'll just be over here staring at Jho's pinups till y'all are done.
*pic snip*

What Sia said .
 
I know that people new to KAST want to discuss Horizon, I however am just Horizon’d out after seeing it discussed over and over on the KAST part 2 and will leave the discussion to those people that aren’t tired of it.
 
And I’ll be starring at Jho’s work as well in the meantime.

[Chignon]

Well, how about suggestions for a new topic then?



The truth is that there is little left to discuss - if anything at all - because there are no news on Kaidan.

[Sialater]

What kind of mission could bring Shepard back to the Alliance and to Kaidan? There are hints that Cerberus is bankrupt and Shepard will be reinstated. I can only guess this will have something to do with the DLC.



So... what can happen?

[Jhourney]

Sialater wrote...

What kind of mission could bring Shepard back to the Alliance and to Kaidan? There are hints that Cerberus is bankrupt and Shepard will be reinstated. I can only guess this will have something to do with the DLC.

So... what can happen?

Toughy, I'm not even sure I want my Shep to return to the Alliance ...I sorta like the idea of her being on her own There were times Hackett's calls got on my nerves in ME1, "do this, do that, we messed up fix it blabla" lol But my Shepard at least is a true Alliance girl with the spacer background, so rather conflicted on what I want for her.

As far as Horizon goes. There are times I just lurk when it's being discussed since a lot of us discussed every little detail of it, but there are also times it all comes back to me and I feel like venting I enjoy reading what people, I haven't seen in here yet, have to say about it. Until/If we get something new to work with (the big IF), Horizon is gonna fuel a few more discussions.

Someone remind me though, why is Shepard no longer a part of the Alliance? She died, there's the Cerberus thing, but my Shep at least does what ever she can to aid the Alliance and give the finger to Cerberus. I just don't recall if the whole Shepard/Alliance relation was played out in ME2 for some reason. I suck, I know

edit : Oh and good to see some of the 'oldies' being posted still, gotta love the trio....oh....*runs to the gutter*

Modifié par Jhosephine, 09 janvier 2011 - 03:41 .

[Sialater]

I think it's assumed her death severed all Alliance ties.

[mineralica]

Hackett's dossier in LotSB doesn't fuel my optimism for rejoining Alliance. How many people there consider "asking" Shepard about Cerberus? How many of them are Cerberus?

About the mission - I see either gathering the information who's trustworthy (dialogues, hacking, investigating... not at all see how it can be made tastefully, however) or search for weapon against Reapers (suspicious photo in Kasumi's graybox, TIM's phrase about Kaleston "they've found both weapon and target"). Or all together.

[Aslanasadi]

Tbh I don't want my Shepard to go back to the Alliance. I think it would be better for her to be indepentend. She should only have to answer the Council (even so I'm not very happy about the Council)



About a mission....I really have no idea...maybe she will ínvestigate something and needs Kaidan's support, maybe he needs her help in a investigation...But I really don't know....

[General User]

Must Shepard go back to the Alliance and Kaiden? Why should Kaiden not go on to Cerberus and Shepard?
 
By virtue of his assignment on Horizon I think it’s safe to assume that Staff Commander Alenko has moved on from being a straight forward Marine line-officer into intelligence and special operations. Kaiden might claim to be an Alliance soldier but he isn’t, not anymore, he’s an Alliance agent and a prime candidate for the Spectres.
 
The Alliance is either a member of the Citadel Council or the dominant force on the Citadel Council. Even if Kaiden is never made a Spectre, he will increasingly find his assignments directed toward supporting the Council’s ends.  And historically the Citadel Council isn’t exactly a child of sweetness and light. Neither is the Alliance for that matter.
 
Investigating missing colonies and Cerberus is all well and good. How’s Kaiden gonna react when gets an assignment to mark refugee camps for orbital bombardment?  Or to deploy bioweapons on civilian population centers? Or simply to kill people who ask too many questions? Or to blow-up a civilian research base so as steal its data for his masters?
 
It’s like Shepard says during Mordin’s loyalty mission, “Crap like this makes Cerberus seem like a good idea!” I think Kaiden has too strong a moral compass not to reach that point himself, sooner or later. And when he does he’ll go looking for Shepard. 

[Sialater]

I didn't say I WANTED her to go back to the Alliance. Just that "reports" have her doing so. (Heh, see what I did there?)

[BECC4]

Well I want my Shepard to go back to the Alliance or at least have the choice. In ME1 you didn't have to do any of Hackett's missions if you didn't want but my spacer Shep has been working to go back hence sending files to them, screwing with Cerberus whenever she got the chance etc. I don't see the alliance as a limitation but better resources and tbh I'm still pissed they made me work with Cerberus at all, I'd have gone straight back to the alliance.

[Jhourney]

BECC4 wrote...

Well I want my Shepard to go back to the Alliance or at least have the choice. In ME1 you didn't have to do any of Hackett's missions if you didn't want but my spacer Shep has been working to go back hence sending files to them, screwing with Cerberus whenever she got the chance etc. I don't see the alliance as a limitation but better resources and tbh I'm still pissed they made me work with Cerberus at all, I'd have gone straight back to the alliance.

"Ah yes, real choices, we have dismissed those claims." j/k

I'm really looking forward to seeing how they are going to tie the Shepard/Kaidan story together. Though I have the feeling it's going to be short, simple and easy...sadly.

[Shenzi]

My main Shepard (Kate) is  an alliance girl at heart and that's where I'd like her to wind up given the option. 
 
As far as my fic goes, I circled around several different scenarios regarding her final relationship to the council and the Alliance tossing out immediately the most commonly used one (in fic) of Shepard staying completely independent and Kaidan playing the role of the Alliance rep on the SR2.

@general_user - There's no way my Shepard is staying with Cerberus unless the game forces that upon us.  My favorite part of ME2 is telling TIM to F**k off and taking the Normandy as a parting gift.

Jo made this motivational for me out of a quote of mine on the old KAST thread. 

http://social.biowar...71779/42316.jpg

Modifié par Shenzi, 09 janvier 2011 - 04:41 .

[General User]

Mine too. “Joker, lose this channel.” Is about my favorite line.
 
I’m not saying Cerberus is any better, or even necessarily a good place for Kaiden to work. Just that the Council and the Alliance are really rather unsavory people and that, if Kaiden stays with them, he’s going to have to compromise his moral standards sooner or later. Possibly in a rather dramatic fashion.
 
I don’t think he will make that compromise. I think that he’ll quit and go looking for Shepard (whatever uniform Shepard might be wearing) rather than do anything blatantly evil. What happens then? Well… that’s up to Shepard.
 
Personal and romantic issues aside, I think Kaiden regrets not going with Shepard on Horizon on a professional level. When the truth comes out that the Normandy and crew really did save a lot of lives, Kaiden has to be asking himself if he should have been a part of that. 
 
After all, protecting people from foreign threats is supposed to be the whole reason the military he’s so loyal to exists in the first place. And if Shepard’s “team” is saving lives and protecting people, and Kaiden’s “team” is having him chase down blind alleys and file pointless reports, it has to start to gnaw at him as a Marine.

Modifié par General User, 09 janvier 2011 - 05:26 .

[wildannie]

I hope that it is Kaiden who seeks out Shepard for help with a mission.



Although I understand his behaviour on horizon, I don't think any of my sheps would be approaching him for help with a mission that involved the alliance unless it was an absolute last resort (which, of course, it may be).



One thing that would send my Sheps (friends and LI) running to Kaiden would be if he was in trouble (again).



.