8324 réponses à ce sujet

[Sialater]

Chignon wrote...

Shepard was Lieutenant Commander, if I remember correctly. That means Kaidan would outrank Shepard now.

Shepard is a LtC, yes.  And Kaidan does outrank her.

Though... that depends on whether she's still Alliance.


oooh! ToP

Modifié par Sialater, 05 février 2011 - 06:45 .

[meonlyred]

Systems Alliance Ranks

Kaidan went from a Staff Lieutenant to a Staff Commander. That is 2 ranks in as many years. Chignon is right Shepard is a Lieutenant Commander. So Kaidan now outranks Shepard.
Ashley on the other hand goes from Gunnery Chief to Operations Chief. That is just 1 promotion. And she still isn't an officer.

I wonder if anyone else notices this: if Ashley dies on Virmire she receives the prestigious salarian Silver Dagger and turian Nova Cluster. If Kaidan dies, he just gets the Alenko Memorial Fund to help biotic kids.

With Kaidan getting 2 promotions and Ashley getting 2 alien metals, it almost seems like it is better for both of them if Ash dies and Kaidan lives. Otherwise Ash just gets 1 promotion and Kaidan gets a scholarship in his honor. I'm interested to see what the long term effects of the Virmire choice is.

[Nightodie]

I wonder if Shepard goes back to the Alliance, if they would promote her. I mean she did defeat the Collectors, without the Alliance's assistance, directly anyway.

[Chignon]

Yes, but she also worked with Cerberus.

EDIT

meonlyred wrote...

 I'm interested to see what the long term effects of the Virmire choice is.

Judging by ME2, none. If you don't count the merging of Ash and Kaidan's character as a long term effect.

Modifié par Chignon, 05 février 2011 - 11:25 .

[jeweledleah]

meonlyred wrote...

Systems Alliance Ranks

Kaidan went from a Staff Lieutenant to a Staff Commander. That is 2 ranks in as many years. Chignon is right Shepard is a Lieutenant Commander. So Kaidan now outranks Shepard.
Ashley on the other hand goes from Gunnery Chief to Operations Chief. That is just 1 promotion. And she still isn't an officer.

I wonder if anyone else notices this: if Ashley dies on Virmire she receives the prestigious salarian Silver Dagger and turian Nova Cluster. If Kaidan dies, he just gets the Alenko Memorial Fund to help biotic kids.

With Kaidan getting 2 promotions and Ashley getting 2 alien metals, it almost seems like it is better for both of them if Ash dies and Kaidan lives. Otherwise Ash just gets 1 promotion and Kaidan gets a scholarship in his honor. I'm interested to see what the long term effects of the Virmire choice is.

I'd be curious to find out as well. 

from a completely logical, unbiased standpoint, that takes no personal feelings into account - saving Kaidan is almost always a better choice.  he's higher ranked officer with many commendations, he was specificaly selected to serve on Normandy, he's a rare stable l2 biotic, and he's a lot more politicaly savy then Ashley.  you can play with it somewhat (for example you can leave Ashley with the bomb and then come back to save her becasue its important to make sure that the bomb goes off, you could say that Ash has big family but we know that Kaidan has a family as well, even if he's somewhat estraged from his father)  but in general  Kaidan wins over Ashley.

granted - Ash is also younger, so she might still make it to officer if given a chance and who knows, it could be a situation where she's a possible equivalent of Einstein or something and by saving Kaidan instead, you make the future a little less bright, but I was looking at current choice rather then future theoretical potential.

[meonlyred]

I highly doubt Shepard's rank will ever change. "Commander Shepard" is the character's name. Kind of like Captain Kirk. He will always be Captain Kirk. However ME2 did introduce the idea of "Captain Shepard" with the quarians and even Kaidan/Ash calls Shepard "Captain of the Normandy." I would not be surprised if this was a bit of foreshadowing.

[philiposophy]

I found these dialogues between Ashley and Kaidan recently:

I didn't go to the Council chambers by rapid transit but chose the elevator just for a change and was pleasantly surprised by the discussions Ashley and Kaidan had before and after.

Were these known about already? They seem very easy to miss.

[Chignon]

Thank you very much for posting these, philiposophy! I have never heard them before.

Modifié par Chignon, 05 février 2011 - 11:37 .

[mineralica]

But "staff commander Shepard" is still a "commander Shepard", so Alliance may represent it as Shepard returned from undercover mission and got a promotion.

I'm interested will Kaidan get a new rank between ME2 and 3?

[jeweledleah]

you also get some unique dialog when you take the elevator back to citadel tower for the hearing where you present Tali's evidence

[philiposophy]

jeweledleah wrote...

you also get some unique dialog when you take the elevator back to citadel tower for the hearing where you present Tali's evidence

Ooh, that's piqued my interest. I'll have to have a look for that.

[meonlyred]

I think Virmire was setup in a way depending on who you send where makes the choice good or bad. Most Military protocol says to protect the ranking officer or the specialist. In WW2 America used Navajo speaking soldiers to send coded messages. The platoon had to protect their code talker at all costs. Yeah, a biotic is a bit different but having a biotic can turn the tide of battle. Kaidan is both the ranking officer and biotic.



Then again Ashley is a soldier, you can reason that Liara and Wrex are both biotics so Kaidan as a specialist isn't needed, but a full soldier is.



Then of course there is her family, on a personal level you can say that you keep her alive for her sisters and mother. But on the other side of that (and since we don't know if Kaidan has any siblings) you can say that you wouldn't want to kill someone's only son.



Destroying Saren's base is the whole reason for the mission. You can argue the bomb is the most important thing. That if the bomb is not protected then the Geth might be able to disarm it or at least move it to a different spot. Then again, Kaidan/Ash says the bomb will "go off no matter what."



Most military protocol also says to save as many people as possible which would mean going and saving the platoon on the AA tower. Leaving the small group at the bombsite to die.



The Virmire scenario is written perfectly neutral so that YOU have to decide what is the best choice.

[meonlyred]

philiposophy wrote...

I found these dialogues between Ashley and Kaidan recently:

I've heard the second one, but the first one is new to me. Thanks!

[jeweledleah]

meonlyred wrote...

I think Virmire was setup in a way depending on who you send where makes the choice good or bad. Most Military protocol says to protect the ranking officer or the specialist. In WW2 America used Navajo speaking soldiers to send coded messages. The platoon had to protect their code talker at all costs. Yeah, a biotic is a bit different but having a biotic can turn the tide of battle. Kaidan is both the ranking officer and biotic.

Then again Ashley is a soldier, you can reason that Liara and Wrex are both biotics so Kaidan as a specialist isn't needed, but a full soldier is.

Then of course there is her family, on a personal level you can say that you keep her alive for her sisters and mother. But on the other side of that (and since we don't know if Kaidan has any siblings) you can say that you wouldn't want to kill someone's only son.

Destroying Saren's base is the whole reason for the mission. You can argue the bomb is the most important thing. That if the bomb is not protected then the Geth might be able to disarm it or at least move it to a different spot. Then again, Kaidan/Ash says the bomb will "go off no matter what."

Most military protocol also says to save as many people as possible which would mean going and saving the platoon on the AA tower. Leaving the small group at the bombsite to die.

The Virmire scenario is written perfectly neutral so that YOU have to decide what is the best choice.

reasonable.  except I'd argue that Kaidan is actualy alliance millitary personel, while Wrex and liara are for now allies at best

[meonlyred]

jeweledleah wrote...

reasonable.  except I'd argue that Kaidan is actualy alliance millitary personel, while Wrex and liara are for now allies at best

There is no way I can kill Kaidan. Sorry Ash, I love you dear but...but... its Kaidan



Oh and BTW this is now my favorite screen shot of my favorite marine team


The mix of blue, red, and green colors appeal to me.

[jeweledleah]

I love this shot Ash is being snarky again, isn't she.

and yes, I cannot kill Kaidan either :/ my renegade femshep is not progressing much because I cannot make myself to go through with the virmire :/

I wanted to experience loyal to Ash romance too, ended up importing one of the massevectsaves files :/

lets just put it this way, I'm very happy that Kaidan is an officer, biotic, etc - which means I can roleplay a Shepard that puts duty first and can STILL save him

Modifié par jeweledleah, 06 février 2011 - 12:45 .

[mineralica]

jeweledleah wrote...

I love this shot Ash is being snarky again, isn't she.

and yes, I cannot kill Kaidan either :/ my renegade femshep is not progressing much because I cannot make myself to go through with the virmire :/

I wanted to experience loyal to Ash romance too, ended up importing one of the massevectsaves files :/

lets just put it this way, I'm very happy that Kaidan is an officer, biotic, etc - which means I can roleplay a Shepard that puts duty first and can STILL save him

In my case this Shepard is going to find out if it will possible to start relationships with Kaidan anew in ME3 still inclined to my favourite LI even while thinking about duty

[jillyfae]

RE: Military ranks

NCO's, (non-commissioned officers, Sergeants in modern-day-terms, and what Ashley is in ME) do NOT TURN INTO OFFICERS. Most of them would be vaguely offended at the suggestion. They /work/ for a living. (Officers are more like managers than workers, from an NCO's perspective.) Thus, Ashley only got one promotion because there was no where else to go. No more NCO ranks.



It is /possible/ for an NCO to become an officer, if they elect to go to some sort of Officer Candidate School (or OCS), but, again, not very common. (The slang term for an officer who did come up the enlisted ranks first is a 'mustang'. They're rare.) Thus, Ashley still being a Chief in ME2 is in no way a dig on Ashley for not becoming an officer like Kaidan. She probably doesn't want to be an officer. And it would screw up the timeline if she did.



And I always take the elevators too and from Council meetings for the unique dialogue. I thought everyone did that. *laughs*

"That's politics, Chief"

"And that's why I hate politicians."

[meonlyred]

Huh, I didn't really realize that. Thanks for clearing that up.

<---Knowledge of the military comes mostly second hand. I just pretend to know what I'm talking about most of the time. xD

[jillyfae]

That's fine. Just, my husband is an NCO, and I see that misconception about NCO ranks being below officer ranks a lot. I go a little batty sometimes. *laughs* Plus, I love Ashley, and would prefer no one think she's getting snubbed when she's not.

Have a lego-Alliance-team!

[meonlyred]

jillyfae wrote...

Have a lego-Alliance-team!
/LegoAwesomeAlliance

Hurray!!! If lego came out with a Mass Effect edition I might crap myself. Having a Lego Normandy sitting next to my Lego Slave 1 would be AWESOME!

[Sialater]

jillyfae wrote...

That's fine. Just, my husband is an NCO, and I see that misconception about NCO ranks being below officer ranks a lot. I go a little batty sometimes. *laughs* Plus, I love Ashley, and would prefer no one think she's getting snubbed when she's not.
Have a lego-Alliance-team!

Yeah, my husband was a corporal with a college degree who planned to mustang (till the army broke him).  The seargants kicked his ass on a regular basis to make him a better future officer.  So... I agree 100% with Jilly.

[Lord Zeuss]

Kaidan (and Ash) take center stage in my latest photomanip project I just completed: We Are Humanity

[Sialater]

That's wonderful, Zeuss!

[Lord Zeuss]

Thanks. I knew from the beginning where I was putting Kaidan. : )