574 réponses à ce sujet

[Graspiloot]

I wish I could make Bhelen in my current game, but my harrowmont's ally achievement has been bugging since the beginning and it still doesn't work, but I got some new tips now (the PSN thing didn't work, since in my earlier games i wasnt on the internet).



Lets hope that it finally works so after that I can finally go for Bhelen in later games

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

My "Harrowmont Supporter" badge probably ranks near the bottom of achievements I've enjoyed getting. The others being Warden Commander (*sniff*) and Champion of redcliffe.

[Zjarcal]

Addai67 wrote...

No, he's not great IMO. He's a despot and a rat, but the better choice of the two we're given.

Pretty much this.

I cringe hard when I give him the crown, but for the sake of the casteless and dwarven society as a whole, I'll do it. He's a humongous piece of garbage, but if putting a piece of garbage on the thrown will benefit everyone, well... better that than preserving the status quo.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

My canon HN Warden didn't trust him, so didn't support him. Giving her forged papers wasn't his smartest move.



Just because he was making promises about 'change' didn't mean he'd keep them, and he reminded her too much of Howe.

[Shinobu]

My character chose him accidentally (while trying to play both sides to get more info) and just went with it even though he seemed like scum. The CE Warden (being a form of casteless herself) was quite pleased with the epilogue. Benevolent despotism is supposedly the most efficient form of government and while we can debate the "benevolent" part, he's an effective ruler. Knowing what I know now it's going to be painful putting Harrowmont on the throne on another playthrough.

[jpdipity]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Giving her forged papers wasn't his smartest move.

much of Howe.

You don't know for certain that the papers are false.  You are told that the shaperate is bias.  You may not believe it because of the distant relationship, but as a player we never truly know the truth.

[Thiefy]

No, my canon "goodie" HN warden put bhelen on the throne because she honestly didn't care about dwarven politics and was kind of sick of all the questing and just wanted all the mess to be done and over with.

Bhelen was just the first one she found lol

[wizardryforever]

I think the better question is: How many people chose Bhelen without metagaming? On the surface, Harrowmont seems like the more appropriate pick for a good character. It's only after the game ends that we are shown the ramifications of the decision. I picked Harrowmont on my first playthrough because he seemed more honorable, and more flexible. Neither choice is ideal however, so it's kind of a moot point. Like the South Park episode where they had to vote between Giant Douche an Turd Sandwich as the mascot.

[Sabariel]

I almost always put Bhelen on the throne. Harrowmont only gets the throne if I'm playing a particularly bitter DN or a character who enjoys being mean to the dwarves.

[Addai]

I did so without metagaming, based on Zevran's advice and overhearing the criers talk about Bhelen calling a draft.

[Reika]

I talked to all of the npcs in Orzammar during my first playthrough and realized that Harrowmont may seem like a nice guy, he wasn't going to do any favors for the city. Plus he seemed really wishywashy about the Blight(since I was playing without trying to read up on anything, I wasn't sure if siding with Harrowmont would get the dwarves or not).

[Sarah1281]

Addai67 wrote...

I did so without metagaming, based on Zevran's advice and overhearing the criers talk about Bhelen calling a draft.

I agree.

My first game, I played a pretty moral HN and I had no idea about the DN or anything Bhelen did in that origin. I quickly decided that Harrowmont was the nicer guy but when I went to Dust Town...While I took everything the crier's said with a grain of salt, I figured that if the criers for both sides agreed on something then it was true. Both criers said something about Bhelen caring more about the casteless than Harrowmont so it was solely for that reason that I ended up choosing Bhelen because I really didn't do much investigating until subsequent playthroughs.

That's why I always find it so interesting when people say that they went with what they felt would be the more moral choice their first playthrough and ended up with Harrowmont and I did the same thign and ended up with Bhelen. The plight of the casteless just trumped a slimy second, forged documents, and hostages.

[Zjarcal]

wizardryforever wrote...

I think the better question is: How many people chose Bhelen without metagaming? On the surface, Harrowmont seems like the more appropriate pick for a good character. It's only after the game ends that we are shown the ramifications of the decision. I picked Harrowmont on my first playthrough because he seemed more honorable, and more flexible. Neither choice is ideal however, so it's kind of a moot point. Like the South Park episode where they had to vote between Giant Douche an Turd Sandwich as the mascot.

I admit that without watching the epilogue slides, I probably never would've felt inclined to make Bhelen king, but it's not hard to justify the decision without metagaming.

On my canon playthrough, my HNF first takes a tour of the entire city, making a stop at dust town, where she sees how bad things are for the casteless. She then goes to speak to both Vartag and Dulin, and agrees to work for both of them, but not before taking a stop at the Shaperate. After asking whether the documents are real or not, she then asks for the opinion on the casteless. The Shaperate's answer appalls her ("they shouldn't even have been born") and she storms out of the place, only to stumble upon the Harrowmont crier denouncing Bhelen for planning to marry a casteless woman (as well as shouting about how Harrowmont stands for dwarven traditions, which pretty much says that Harrowmont shares the same views as the Shaperate). At that point, the decision has been made. However shady Bhelen may be, she prefers to side with someone who wants to change things, as opposed to the one who supports the status quo.

Granted, on my first run I wasn't paying attention to all the details, and if it weren't for the epilogue slides, I wouldn't really have bothered searching for them, but they certainly are there, allowing us to avoid any metagaming.

[jpdipity]

Addai67 wrote...

I did so without metagaming, based on Zevran's advice and overhearing the criers talk about Bhelen calling a draft.

I thought Bhelen was the better choice without metagaming as well. 
1 - Zevran's statement suggesting that Harrowmont would be a weak king
2 - Criers who say Bhelen supports the casteless
3 - Merchants who say that Bhelen is better for trade
4 - Bhelen promises troops whereas Harrowmont does not

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

jpdipity wrote...

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Giving her forged papers wasn't his smartest move.

much of Howe.

You don't know for certain that the papers are false.  You are told that the shaperate is bias.  You may not believe it because of the distant relationship, but as a player we never truly know the truth.

If you confront Bhelen's second with them, IIRC he pretty much admits that they're falsified and says 'it's part of the game, so play along or gtfo'. Deceiving my HN into tricking other people that an apparently honest person was gulling them? No. Even if they'd been up front about the lies from the start...no. Integrity and personal honour are a **** for that Warden, even if she wanted to work for good outcomes.

Warden #2 (CE) picked Bhelen because she made the comparison between Alienage and Dust Town, but while she didn't appreciate being lied to either she didn't have any moral issues of lying to aristocrats.

[Reika]

The reason why I went exploring the city like I did is that Harrowmont reminded me too much of Eamon.



Yes, my dislike of Eamon started on my very first game, it just grew more so over time.

[LobselVith8]

Addai67 wrote...

I did so without metagaming, based on Zevran's advice and overhearing the criers talk about Bhelen calling a draft.

When does Zevran give advice about Harrowmont?

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

I did so without metagaming, based on Zevran's advice and overhearing the criers talk about Bhelen calling a draft.

When does Zevran give advice about Harrowmont?

When you talk with Harrowmont's second, I believe.

[caradoc2000]

Regardless of who you choose, I doubt this will have an impact for DA2 - especially considering the sequel takes place quite far away from the Dwarven realm.

[GodWood]

Of course I made Bhelen king.

He is perfect king material.

[Elhanan]

I prefer Harrowmont as King; not much into the prosperity w/o morality scenario.

[DJStarstryker]

Neither dwarven king option is that great, but I chose Bhelen for my last playthrough, which was using a good Warden, because I like that he at least supports the casteless. I really think the rest of dwarven society has to stop treating the casteless like they do, and I hoped the getting Bhelen on the throne might make things move toward a better direction.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

I picked him on my first playthrough in a virtual coin flip. Also, he was the standing prince/son of the dead king, so, not knowing or understanding much about dwarven politics, figured he had more right to it.



And was quite pleased with the result.

[mousestalker]

I played a city elf named Rica for one playthrough. She chose Bhelen because dwarves apparently have difficulty with pronunciation (Per the Proving Master). She felt giving the dwarves a king with only two syllables in his name was the kinder choice.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

mousestalker wrote...

I played a city elf named Rica for one playthrough. She chose Bhelen because dwarves apparently have difficulty with pronunciation (Per the Proving Master). She felt giving the dwarves a king with only two syllables in his name was the kinder choice.

LMAO! Oh man, that part always cracks me up. Surfacer names too hard to pronounce. Even when they are one sylable.