574 réponses à ce sujet

[KnightofPhoenix]

Elhanan wrote...
But placing a lone Noble atop the throne that is just a Dimanond Quarter away from running things just like the carta is so much better, eh? Guess the end of the nose is geting a tad blurry now?

Yes.
That's what Rome needed, and that's what Orzammar needs. A sole leader.

[Costin_Razvan]

That is also exactly what France needed. There is a reason ( big one even ) why Napoleon is a legendary figure to them despite the fact he was called( and for good reason ).

A megalomaniac.
A madman.
A petty tyrant.

He brought on wars that cost the deaths of hundreds of thousands of frenchmen, yet for all that there is no dispute that he did help shape the entire world for the better.

His name is the Polish National Athem, for a reason. His code is considered one of the most important documents ever created.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 09 janvier 2011 - 09:16 .

[Elhanan]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Yes.
That's what Rome needed, and that's what Orzammar needs. A sole leader.

A self-appointed despot ain't exactly what I am willing to place on my dance card for hope. And how is that Roman rule going for ya?

[Giggles_Manically]

Lets look at this:

Casteless get a chance to move up in life, and Orzamar gets a whole host of new troops.

Trade increases meaning more goods, more connections to the surface,and more money for merchants which will undercut noble houses.

The Assembly goes bye bye and Orzamar gains a strong central government that moves them forward.

The dwarves go on the offensive and take back territory! GREAT!

With the anvil Bhelen keeps taking ground GREAT!

With surface troops and Apostates Bhelen gains even more aid for fighting Darkspawn.



Under Bhelen Orzamar can enter a golden age and start returning the dwarves to power.

[Giggles_Manically]

Double post.

Modifié par Giggles_Manically, 09 janvier 2011 - 09:23 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Elhanan wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Yes.
That's what Rome needed, and that's what Orzammar needs. A sole leader.

A self-appointed despot ain't exactly what I am willing to place on my dance card for hope. And how is that Roman rule going for ya?

You mean the empire that remained the sole superpower for centuries and the system of government that lasted until 1453 (and inspired a lot of other systems)?
Historically it was excellent and Augustus should rightfully be called the godfather of Europe and a brilliant brilliant leader for what he, the "power hungry monstrous despot" did.

So yes, I would rather trust a person like him, than an imbecile like Harrowmont and his ilk.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 09 janvier 2011 - 09:27 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Giggles_Manically wrote...
Under Bhelen Orzamar can enter a golden age and start returning the dwarves to power.

But I can't sleep at night Giggles!
The wellfare of  Orzammar is not worth my conscience!

[Elhanan]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Lets look at this:
Casteless get a chance to move up in life, and Orzamar gets a whole host of new troops.
Trade increases meaning more goods, more connections to the surface,and more money for merchants which will undercut noble houses.
The Assembly goes bye bye and Orzamar gains a strong central government that moves them forward.
The dwarves go on the offensive and take back territory! GREAT!
With the anvil Bhelen keeps taking ground GREAT!
With surface troops and Apostates Bhelen gains even more aid for fighting Darkspawn.

Under Bhelen Orzamar can enter a golden age and start returning the dwarves to power.

Sounds real comfy, except in my server it is the Warden leading things, no Anvil, and Bhlen is sent back to the Stone.

[Giggles_Manically]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...
Under Bhelen Orzamar can enter a golden age and start returning the dwarves to power.

But I can't sleep at night Giggles!
The wellfare of  Orzammar is not worth my conscience!

I KNOW!!!

Who cares about progress, and the well being of an entire people!
Bhelen is a bad bad man! 

[Elhanan]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

You mean the empire that remained the sole superpower for centuries and the system of government that lasted until 1453 (and inspired a lot of other systems)?
Historically it was excellent and Augustus should rightfully be called the godfather of Europe and a brilliant brilliant leader for what he, the "power hungry monstrous despot" did.

So yes, I would rather trust a person like him, than an imbecile like Harrowmont and his ilk.

Hope you stay on his good side then, as oppossed to the kill of the day. As for me, I go for the other option.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Elhanan wrote...
Hope you stay on his good side then, as oppossed to the kill of the day. As for me, I go for the other option.

Yes because the dwarven nobility are known for being good sports in politics and they would so not backstab you if they had the chance.

The death of a few dissidents, most of whom are short sighted fools, is not something I would shed a tear for. A more than acceptable price, for Orzammar's salvation.

[Giggles_Manically]

Yes its so evil to kill people who send assassins after you, or disband a group who does nothing!

EVIL EVIL EVIL!

[Addai]

Bhelen was looking for a way to appoint himself potentate even before the game starts. Tyrant's a tyrant the world around. I wouldn't be surprised if he staged the assassination attempts. He's pretty good at political stagecraft.

[Elhanan]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Yes because the dwarven nobility are known for being good sports in politics and they would so not backstab you if they had the chance.

The death of a few dissidents, most of whom are short sighted fools, is not something I would shed a tear for. A more than acceptable price, for Orzammar's salvation.

And I seek a way w/o having to kill the political oppostion if possible. Well, Bhelen being an exception, of course.....

[KnightofPhoenix]

Elhanan wrote...
And I seek a way w/o having to kill the political oppostion if possible. Well, Bhelen being an exception, of course.....

Good for you.

@ Addai.
That would only make me admire him more, if he managed to stage the assassination attempts right at the moment where he was sure he can strike.
But it wouldn't surprise me if the Assembly, in its short sightedness, decided to assassinate a reformer.

[Costin_Razvan]

Tyrant's a tyrant the world around.

The word you are looking for is dictator. A tyrant is a leader who only acts in his own selfish interests, and say what you will Bhelen does also act in the interest of the vast majority of dwarves.

[Giggles_Manically]

I think that like 80-90% of Dwarves think Bhelen is simply great.

The Nobles hate him for taking away their power but who cares about a bunch of nobles?

[KnightofPhoenix]

I personally prefer the word "authoritarian". "Dictator" and "Tyrant" carry a negative connotation today for obvious reasons (propaganda), but they don't mean what is being implied.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 09 janvier 2011 - 09:53 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Addai67 wrote...

Bhelen was looking for a way to appoint himself potentate even before the game starts. Tyrant's a tyrant the world around. I wouldn't be surprised if he staged the assassination attempts. He's pretty good at political stagecraft.

Assasinations don't bother me. In fact, i fully support political ones, as I see it as just a part of the game. better to eliminate one rival than draw a large number of people into a conflict, causing death to innocent bystanders, or dragging unwilling participants into someone else's problems. And I have zero sympathy for the players in the game. They know what its about.

Bhelen definitely was looking for a way to hijack and dissolve the assembly, if the Shaper is to be believed (and I see no reason why he would lie about this, either). He definitely had grand ambitions of power for a while. Luckily for Orzammar, his ambitions and tyrant games worked out well for them. Sadly, jerks like Bhelen are exactly what systems like orzammar need and deserve. Their ruling class has been stubbornly self absorbed and dragging the city down with it for decades, and the only way to get them to change course is through force. very apparant if you pick Harrowmont.

If it was just the nobles who would get wiped out, I wouldn't care. But the stupidity and unwillingness to act beyond rigid tradition has been pushing the dwarves as a race to the brink of extinction, and they aren't going to give up their backwards, outdated caste system unless someone makes them.

[Giggles_Manically]

There are nobles like that Helmi fellow who would want to see reform as well.

[Costin_Razvan]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

There are nobles like that Helmi fellow who would want to see reform as well.

He is considered a very big exception.

[Giggles_Manically]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

There are nobles like that Helmi fellow who would want to see reform as well.

He is considered a very big exception.

Still there may be more who just did not want to come out and get ridiculed like he was.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

If I remember correctly, he states his family and most of the assembly look down on him with contempt, because of his lax, liberal views regarding society and caste.



Sadly, unless you convince him otherwise, he is a Harrowmont supporter, because for some reason, thinks Harrowmont would be more open to change. It's nice to be able to correct him if playing a DC supporting Bhelen.

[Avilia]

The dwarves are in trouble are they not? Darkspawn eating away at their numbers, more of them moving to the surface. They need the surface trade to keep things moving and the castless need to be brought into the fold properly.

My thinking anyways - Bhelen is the best leader for the dwarves at the point they're presented to us. He's nowhere near perfect as a person but he's a much better leader than Harrowmont.

For my money at least.

Modifié par Avilia, 09 janvier 2011 - 09:57 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
Sadly, unless you convince him otherwise, he is a Harrowmont supporter, because for some reason, thinks Harrowmont would be more open to change. It's nice to be able to correct him if playing a DC supporting Bhelen.

Helmi is incompentent, but at least he realizes that Bhelen is brilliant.