9 réponses à ce sujet

[highcastle]

Alright, I've been pretty diligent with following the news about DA2 and the changes therein. I'm pretty excited about the implementation of a rivalry system, but I'm curious to know what this means for gifts. I know gifts are down purely to character-specific items rather like Alistair's amulet or Morrigan's grimoire, but does giving one only provide friendship points? What if you're pursuing a rivalry with a character and you want to hand them their long lost salad spinner? Will this earn you rivalry points, or will it mean you'll be hanging on to all gifts unless you're headed the friendship route?

I'm also curious about how approval points will be meted out in general. In DA:O, they're both tied to actions you take as well as the way you speak to NPCs. I've heard it said that characters no longer respond with approval points if they're spoken to kindly versus aggressively, that approval is tied firmly to actions. What about those companions who don't come with us everywhere? It seems they might fall behind in the friendship/rivalry department, especially with no more generic gifts to throw at them in my vain quest to make everyone like me.

If anyone's played enough of the demo to puzzle out how these issues might resolve themselves, or if a dev would be so kind as to clarify, I'd be super happy. I think the rivalry system has a lot of potential, I'm just curious about the mechanics involved.

[David Gaider]

highcastle wrote...
I know gifts are down purely to character-specific items rather like Alistair's amulet or Morrigan's grimoire, but does giving one only provide friendship points? What if you're pursuing a rivalry with a character and you want to hand them their long lost salad spinner? Will this earn you rivalry points, or will it mean you'll be hanging on to all gifts unless you're headed the friendship route?

Gifts give either friendship or rivalry, depending on what path you're currently on. The difference is in how the gift is received-- a rival might wonder what your motives are, or take the gift in the wrong way. It really varies depending on the character in question.

What about those companions who don't come with us everywhere? It seems they might fall behind in the friendship/rivalry department, especially with no more generic gifts to throw at them in my vain quest to make everyone like me.

So long as you do those companions personal quests (for which they'll need to come along), you'll still get plenty of opportunities for rivalry or friendship. The personl quests are the biggest source of those points. But overall, yes, it'll be more difficult if you don't otherwise adventure with them much.

[David Gaider]

hhh89 wrote...
If I remember well, to advance in some romance/dialogue you must have an high approval. Even a lot of companion's side quest are based on approval (Leliana, Sten, Oghren for sure, maybe even Wynne).

That's true for Origins. In DA2, all companion quests can be done regardless of your approval (they're useful more for determining approval than originating from it). There is still relationship dialogue based on your approval, though, but it can be either rivalry- or friendship-based in its character.

[David Gaider]

MerinTB wrote...
The rivalry meter for DA2 goes the OPPOSITE way.  You start neutral (probably), become more antagonistic or competitive or whatever, and at the "height" of it suddenly you THEN want to be in a romance?  I cannot think of a single fictional nor real "romance" that works from neutral to negative but the further negative the more attracted two people in question are to each other.

If your rivalry meter hits a point, you have your rivalry romance, does the meter than shift towards friendship?

Or is it where normally a rivalry hitting a certain point needs an explosion of violence, for DA2 the "violence" will be hateful or competitive or masochistic sex?

I think you might be getting caught up on the word "rivalry". It could just as easily be expressed by "conflict".

Two people that have conflicting views may fight over it. This does not mean they hate each other. It may, however, mean they get into some very heated arguments. That kind of conflict also does not necessarily exclude the fact that you may be attracted to someone.

Rivalry does not mean a companion hates or disrespects you-- if that was the case, they wouldn't be traveling with you.

There is a point at the "end" of the Rivalry path which mimics the end of the Frienship path: the companion is loyal and whatever conflict lay between you has been resolved. That's how the path works.

[David Gaider]

Brockololly wrote...
So the rivalry path might be if my Warden was an ultra left Democrat and Morrigan a right wing Republican, its sort of assumed they're "friendly" overall despite getting in regular arguments over politics? ANd that any friendship/rivalry shift is mostly attributable to your actions and conversations with respect to political philosophy, not necessarily personal like/dislike? And  possibly towards the end of the rivalry pathway you could still develop a genuine romance but also have the chance to change Morrigan's view on things as well?

That is exactly the case. In fact, the rivalry path is the only way you can alter their philosophy-- as the rivalry path is, at its core, based on the fact that your philosophy is different. Successfully getting to the "end" of the rivalry path is, in essence, successfully convincing them that they're wrong.

Whereas a "friendship" path would be more like if say both Morrigan and the Warden shared the same philosophical views already and simply went from there, nodding in agreement as they let kittens stay forever stuck in trees?

Again correct. And very apt.

Modifié par David Gaider, 09 janvier 2011 - 06:02 .

[David Gaider]

The Big Nothing wrote...
Or is it a single meter with Friendship at the top and Rivalry at the bottom, where I have to commit to one side or the other?

This is the case. It's not Paragon/Renegade as in two seperate meters with their own values but Friendship and Rivalry as opposite ends of the same spectrum.

Also, can you romance a rival? I know my most romantic relationships have involved scathing animosity.

Yes, as has been discussed in this thread. Some of the best romances, in my opinion, spring from conflict.

[David Gaider]

filaminstrel wrote...
So what happens if you end up in the middle of the meter, will you miss the opportunity to build their loyalty or whatever? It sounds like you can disagree with them on everything and then build their respect, or agree with them on everything and build their respect, but can you agree with them half the time and still get respect? Or will you be doomed to be Rodney Dangerfield?

If you hover in the middle it's no different than doing the same in Origins-- with the difference that you'll still be able to complete their missions, if you choose. It'll just mean you haven't developed a significant friendship or rivalry with them. They still respect you and travel with you.

[David Gaider]

The Big Nothing wrote...
One last thing, Captain Gaider: Is it still possible to have mutineers, a la Shale, Leliana, and Wynne, if the right options are chosen?

Yes, depending on the character and the situation.

[David Gaider]

Brockololly wrote...
Thats my concern, especially since you lack gifts now (outside of big ones). If your character maybe agrees with Morrigan for example, on ditching the kitten in the tree and sacrificing Isolde but not on killing the elven slaves or using the Anvil of the Void, does that leave you stuck in the middle?

 I understand the idea is to make it such that you don't need to metagame your way to positive approval with everyone for bonuses, but I still feel like it will force you to metagame for extreme rivalry or extreme friendship. And without smaller gifts to smooth over things, you're forced to game your PC's dialogue options to one extreme or the other in the interest of getting maxed out rivalry or friendship, not necessarily what your PC might want to say or do.

We can't really stop someone from metagaming if they're trying to reverse-engineer a specific end result-- whether that's by giving a character gifts in Origins or picking responses that they think will have the desired effect. If you're consistent with your views, chances are you will organically end up on one side of the spectrum or the other... but there is indeed no way to be sure. This is supposed to be about roleplaying, remember, and not "press button for friendship".

[David Gaider]

Nighteye2 wrote...
But wouldn't a good game be designed in such a way that there is no benefit to metagaming? That players don't feel like they miss out if they don't meta-game to, in this case, max out friendship/rivalry meter either way?

The only way to do that would be to take the player decisions out of it, and make your relationship grow in a pre-defined way. As soon as player decision enters the picture, so does the possibility of metagaming. That's always going to be the case in any game, and the choice is really the player's as to whether they want to roleplay or seek a specific end result.