298 réponses à ce sujet

[KBomb]

It’s $7.00 if you don’t pre-order. It isn’t like a full price of a game. It’s $7.00! I understand about feeling cheated. I really do. I live in a really rural area where we just got DSL within the past year, so I never got a chance to get any dlc because a majority of them were released with codes instead of disks. I hated it, but I didn’t write the companies and demand that they release all dlc on disks as well because some people couldn’t benefit from it. I sucked it up. I just don’t understand getting so angry and appalled over it.

[Harid]

One game doesn't prove your case, dude, but keep trying. I'd like to see something that compares the two industries overall. . .not just peak sales.  And outgorssing doesn't mean bigger, unless that's what you are saying you meant now. . .Nintendo outgrosses Sony, for instance, but I would not argue Nintendo has a bigger company.

And no company deserves blind faith. How was Sonic Chronicles, by the way?

Modifié par Harid, 08 janvier 2011 - 11:50 .

[Reaverwind]

Gavinthelocust wrote...

Piracy is the very killer of PC gaming, you can get any game for free whether the devs agree or not. Everything is downloadable if you look in the right places, don't think that it has no effect on gaming.

Theft is a problem for any business, not just gaming. ******-poor business practices are doing a lot more to kill the computer-gaming industry than any amount of theft.

[TJPags]

Revan312 wrote...

The point of fairness is always at differing points for differing people. Most I've noticed on these forums are fine with EA/Bioware removing content out of the game for the exclusive purpose of being DLC, effectively cutting content in an attempt to make more $$$. That's a matter of opinion I suppose as they (these forum goers) don't see the problem as most are going to get the sig edition whereas the vast majority of gamers won't. I see it as greedy and manipulative but again, it's opinion.

But as long as gamers continue to say "who cares" or "It's incentive" or "You must hate Capitalism" (Which I do by the way) then we'll continue to watch the gaming industry become more and more restrictive and greedy. I can see DRM in the not to distant future becoming extremely limiting, perhaps even to the point of only allowing 1 install per purchase. Games with half the content and the rest as pay for additional content and DLC that costs 7 bucks even though it's not worth 2.. oh wait, that last one is a reality (Witch Hunt I'm looking at you).

Most of it I can see why corporations do it as they have to maximize profits by law, but what's amazing to me is that the media environment of today has actually spun the topic of capitalism so well that normal people actually defend these practices.. Brainwashing has been so effective as to actually make the little guy fight for the big guy even though the big guy is exploiting him/her.. Truly mind boggling to me..

I see a difference between your point and that of the OP.

You argue that companies are cutting content and converting it to DLC, and that this is bad.  I pretty much agree with you.

However, as I understand the OP, the complaint is that some of the DLC - which already exists, even if we think it is bad - is being given free as a bonus to those who preorder, while those who don't need to pay for it.  I see nothing wrong with this.

[Ensgnblack]

Revan312 wrote...

The point of fairness is always at differing points for differing people. Most I've noticed on these forums are fine with EA/Bioware removing content out of the game for the exclusive purpose of being DLC, effectively cutting content in an attempt to make more $$$. That's a matter of opinion I suppose as they (these forum goers) don't see the problem as most are going to get the sig edition whereas the vast majority of gamers won't. I see it as greedy and manipulative but again, it's opinion.

But as long as gamers continue to say "who cares" or "It's incentive" or "You must hate Capitalism" (Which I do by the way) then we'll continue to watch the gaming industry become more and more restrictive and greedy. I can see DRM in the not to distant future becoming extremely limiting, perhaps even to the point of only allowing 1 install per purchase. Games with half the content and the rest as pay for additional content and DLC that costs 7 bucks even though it's not worth 2.. oh wait, that last one is a reality (Witch Hunt I'm looking at you).

Most of it I can see why corporations do it as they have to maximize profits by law, but what's amazing to me is that the media environment of today has actually spun the topic of capitalism so well that normal people actually defend these practices.. Brainwashing has been so effective as to actually make the little guy fight for the big guy even though the big guy is exploiting him/her.. Truly mind boggling to me..

Prices will set themselves at what the market will bear.  If it is not worth your money, don't buy it.  If enough  people agree, the price will come down.

It seems silly to ****  about capitalism in an industry such as this.   Its one thing to point out how price  hawks hurt people ethically in say the  oil or healtchare industry, but if a video  game gouges its customers, its not really the  same to  me.

That said, I still feel that the  preorder bonuses are EXTRA.  They were not cut from the game.  No one is being harmed  here.

[slimgrin]

I'm not going to pre-order a game that I can't even be sure I've seen a final build of. And no, Bioware and EA aren't the only ones to pull this; lots of publishers pull this type of faith buying crap. Before they even show any footage of the game they ask you to throw down your money. It's laughable.

I'm not even going to pre-order The Witcher 2 as sold as I am on that game.

Modifié par slimgrin, 08 janvier 2011 - 11:48 .

[nightcobra]

so...no one is actually considering the possibility of sebastian being implemented as part of the project ten dollar when it launches?

[upsettingshorts]

Revan312 wrote...
Most I've noticed on these forums are fine with EA/Bioware removing content out of the game for the exclusive purpose of being DLC, effectively cutting content in an attempt to make more $$$.

Correction:  I take Bioware at their word when they say DLC is not "content cut from the game" but "content that wouldn't exist if it wasn't DLC."  YMMV.

Revan312 wrote...
But as long as gamers continue to say "who cares" or "It's incentive" or "You must hate Capitalism" (Which I do by the way)

If you do hate capitalism, then this is just a symptom - not the disease - and people saying that they can live with a certain symptom is different than saying they don't want a cure for the disease.

Revan312 wrote...
Most of it I can see why corporations do it as they have to maximize profits by law, but what's amazing to me is that the media environment of today has actually spun the topic of capitalism so well that normal people actually defend these practices.. Brainwashing has been so effective as to actually make the little guy fight for the big guy even though the big guy is exploiting him/her.. Truly mind boggling to me..

If you don't hate capitalism, or are at worst indifferent do it - you probably don't see it as a class struggle? 

Last time I got into that though, the thread got derailed into a discussion of Marxism between a lot of people who admitted they didn't really understand it and one person who claimed to who happened to be totally wrong.  So while it was kind of amusing, it was ultimately pointless.

[Ensgnblack]

This is not a scam. The game is complete without the pre order. This is the same as giving away a free fanny pack in an infomercial if you call in the next 10 minutes.

[Saibh]

To quote myself from elsewhere (since this conversation is like being on a carousel of hell):

"This is how you think of it: I'm being stolen from deliberately.

This is how I think of it: I'm getting something extra for free, if I get there early.

If the SE didn't exist, there'd be no deal. No one would get him for free. At all. We'd all have to pay. This is just a bonus for people who would have pre-ordered anyway, or a push for those deliberating on it."

Harid wrote...

One game doesn't prove your case, dude, but keep trying. I'd like to see something that compares the two industries overall. . .not just peak sales.

And no company deserves blind faith. How was Sonic Chronicles, by the way?

A lot of people thought it was decent. But a lot of people (myself included) don't like Sonic.

Modifié par Saibh, 08 janvier 2011 - 11:49 .

[PinkysPain]

Ensgnblack wrote...

This is not a scam. The game is complete without the pre order. This is the same as giving away a free fanny pack in an infomercial if you call in the next 10 minutes.

Exactly, a hard sell.

A hard sell is not a scam, but it's also simply not very nice.

[SleepyPerson]

The only thing exclusive to the signature edition are the weapons and items that come along with it. The DLC can be bought for 7$ if you get the normal version.
How are they being unfair? Not getting the exclusive weapons and items won't hurt anyones gaming experience. No one is missing out on anything important.
You're complaining over something so trivial. Also it isn't hard to go to a store, take 5$ out of your wallet and pre-order.

[TJPags]

PinkysPain wrote...

Ensgnblack wrote...

This is not a scam. The game is complete without the pre order. This is the same as giving away a free fanny pack in an infomercial if you call in the next 10 minutes.

Exactly, a hard sell.

A hard sell is not a scam, but it's also simply not very nice.

Not nice to whom?  The people who don't buy it? 

[Big Mabels Diet-Plan]

TJPags wrote...

PinkysPain wrote...

Ensgnblack wrote...

This is not a scam. The game is complete without the pre order. This is the same as giving away a free fanny pack in an infomercial if you call in the next 10 minutes.

Exactly, a hard sell.

A hard sell is not a scam, but it's also simply not very nice.

Not nice to whom?  The people who don't buy it? 

The potential customers who prefer an honest sale over a hard one. I'm amazed that people not only accept being hard sold but even applaud it.

[Gavinthelocust]

Saibh wrote...

To quote myself from elsewhere (since this conversation is like being on a carousel of hell):

"This is how you think of it: I'm being stolen from deliberately.

This is how I think of it: I'm getting something extra for free, if I get there early.

If the SE didn't exist, there'd be no deal. No one would get him for free. At all. We'd all have to pay. This is just a bonus for people who would have pre-ordered anyway, or a push for those deliberating on it."

QTF
The only people who are getting "scammed" so to speak are those who are unsure or negative about the game, and rewarding those who are in love with the game already with a little treat is perfectly fair.

[upsettingshorts]

I prefer not to make value judgments. EA/Bioware made me an offer. Combined with Direct2Drive's offer, I took it.



Don't like the offer, don't take it. I don't see why it needs to be more complicated than that..

[Merci357]

slimgrin wrote...

I'm not going to pre-order a game that I can't even be sure I've seen a final build of. And no, Bioware and EA aren't the only ones to pull this; lots of publishers pull this type of faith buying crap. Before they even show any footage of the game they ask you to throw down your money. It's laughable.

I'm not even going to pre-order The Witcher 2 as sold as I am on that game.

But that's your loss after all. You know, I guess I'll like DA2, but with some parts I'm on the fence. However, I preordered anyway. Why? In case reviews in late february/early march turn out to be great, I've my signature edition reserved. But if the previews are bad, or if the game is full of bugs, I'll cancel it, easy as that. And I've lost not a single cent, there is zero risk, that's not blind faith at all, that's a simple move to keep all options open.

[PinkysPain]

TJPags wrote...
Not nice to whom?  The people who don't buy it? 

Not nice to your customers.

It just starts off everything on the wrong foot, it replaces the goal of achieving sales by quality with achieving sales by PR (even the best developers aren't entirely immune from short term vs long term pressure, once you go down this path it's hard to turn back).

Also hard sales tactics are simply poor manners.

[TJPags]

TripedWire wrote...

TJPags wrote...

PinkysPain wrote...

Ensgnblack wrote...

This is not a scam. The game is complete without the pre order. This is the same as giving away a free fanny pack in an infomercial if you call in the next 10 minutes.

Exactly, a hard sell.

A hard sell is not a scam, but it's also simply not very nice.

Not nice to whom?  The people who don't buy it? 

The potential customers who prefer an honest sale over a hard one. I'm amazed that people not only accept being hard sold but even applaud it.

PinkysPain wrote...

TJPags wrote...
Not nice to whom?  The people who don't buy it? 

Not nice to your customers.

It just starts off everything on the wrong foot, it replaces the goal of achieving sales by quality with achieving sales by PR (even the best developers aren't entirely immune from short term vs long term pressure, once you go down this path it's hard to turn back).

Also hard sales tactics are simply poor manners.

Why, you don't like fanny packs or something? 

Do you also turn up your nose at 50% off sales?  Because, you know, not everyone feels like shopping this saturday, so it's not fair to those people, who now have to pay full price.

Or clearance sales?  I bought the product last week - why didn't I get that deal?

Do you have something against a car dealer giving you free oil changes?  Because, by your logic, that's amost criminal.

Modifié par TJPags, 09 janvier 2011 - 12:00 .

[Harid]

Saibh wrote...

To quote myself from elsewhere (since this conversation is like being on a carousel of hell):

"This is how you think of it: I'm being stolen from deliberately.

This is how I think of it: I'm getting something extra for free, if I get there early.

If the SE didn't exist, there'd be no deal. No one would get him for free. At all. We'd all have to pay. This is just a bonus for people who would have pre-ordered anyway, or a push for those deliberating on it."

This isn't really an argument I can agree with.

Most people don't complain about the Stone Prisoner.  You bought the game new, you got DLC.  Same applies the Cerberus Network.  People understood they were buying the game,a nd getting a reward to help curb piracy.

This game has been contentious from the start, since the first "Press a Button, something awesome happens" bad advertising came out for the game.  Everyone also knows that Bioware tends to make DLC gear the best gear in the game.  (See Mass Effect, see DA:O)  Thus, people who want to wait and see are 'forced' with this hard sell to pre order the game, and people don't like that, thus the complaints.  I don't see it as me getting something free, but rather that is is something tacked on to get people who wanted to wait to buy to see if the changes they made to DA:2 will result in critical acclaim.  I kind of see it as a lack of faith in the final product from Bioware.  But like I said, I'm a cynic.  This isn't protection from piracy, this is not rewarding to early adopters (a person buying on day one is the same as someone preordering the game, they are both buying it day one, but one gets a clear reward in this case) this is just. . .carrot to stick hard sell marketing 101, so they have another talking point pre release.

[Steingrimur Steingrimsson]

I would usually care, but when it comes to Bioware I really, really don't. They have never let me down.

[Big Mabels Diet-Plan]

Merci357 wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

I'm not going to pre-order a game that I can't even be sure I've seen a final build of. And no, Bioware and EA aren't the only ones to pull this; lots of publishers pull this type of faith buying crap. Before they even show any footage of the game they ask you to throw down your money. It's laughable.

I'm not even going to pre-order The Witcher 2 as sold as I am on that game.

But that's your loss after all. You know, I guess I'll like DA2, but with some parts I'm on the fence. However, I preordered anyway. Why? In case reviews in late february/early march turn out to be great, I've my signature edition reserved. But if the previews are bad, or if the game is full of bugs, I'll cancel it, easy as that. And I've lost not a single cent, there is zero risk, that's not blind faith at all, that's a simple move to keep all options open.

Are you sure there is zero penalty to cancelling a pre-order? won't you lose a deposit?

[slimgrin]

See OP?

4 pages later...count the votes for and against. Now go to another site, and count the votes.

Modifié par slimgrin, 09 janvier 2011 - 12:00 .

[Sejborg]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

Sejborg wrote...

SirOccam wrote...

I think some people need to decide what they're arguing. Is it that this specific offer from BioWare is bad? Or that DLC is bad? Or that day-1 DLC is bad?

I think that this specific DLC preorder bonus is bad. I was fine with The Stone Prisoner deal though. 

and like i said in a previous post, i think that may be a good possibility:


"the way i see it, there are two different conditions in this 

1- pre-order the signature edition, you get sebastian for free, if not his price tag is 7 dollars 

2- project ten dollar implements aprox. 10 dollars worth of dlc if you buy a new game 

if condition 1 isn't met, condition 2 might kick in if you buy the game new and sebastian may implemented in this condition. 

if both conditions aren't met (buy the game used) you'd have to buy sebastian if you wanted him. 

I get what you are saying. But I think that your deal 1, is a worse deal than deal 2. All the people who are not super nerds like people who are haing out here, or are liking Dragon Age on Facebook, but still like Dragon Age, and will buy at day one is getting cheated for 7 dollars. They are simply not aware of this deal. They will have to give 7 dollars extra for the full experience than the person, who just so happen to preorder the game before some random date. 

Why make this weird deal instead of The Stone Prisoner deal? I think they want to make money on all the fans who are not paying attention and preordering months before release. They are simply trying to see how much they can push the consumer. 

[triggerhappy456]

Yet another thread b*tching about the pre-order bonuses?

It's simple, have faith that the game will be good and you get rewarded

If not, you miss out on one bonus character, which you can buy anyway later if you get the game and think its good