298 réponses à ce sujet

[Merci357]

TripedWire wrote...

Merci357 wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

I'm not going to pre-order a game that I can't even be sure I've seen a final build of. And no, Bioware and EA aren't the only ones to pull this; lots of publishers pull this type of faith buying crap. Before they even show any footage of the game they ask you to throw down your money. It's laughable.

I'm not even going to pre-order The Witcher 2 as sold as I am on that game.

But that's your loss after all. You know, I guess I'll like DA2, but with some parts I'm on the fence. However, I preordered anyway. Why? In case reviews in late february/early march turn out to be great, I've my signature edition reserved. But if the previews are bad, or if the game is full of bugs, I'll cancel it, easy as that. And I've lost not a single cent, there is zero risk, that's not blind faith at all, that's a simple move to keep all options open.

Are you sure there is zero penalty to cancelling a pre-order? won't you lose a deposit?

Amazon doesn't work that way. No deposit at all.

[upsettingshorts]

I'd be making the same argument on other sites, if I posted there. Just sayin'.

But again, I really don't have issues with incentives or DLC in general, whereas I acknowledge a lot of people do - especially the latter.

[Meltemph]

The idea that a consumer "deserves" a product to be featured in a such a way is... presumptuous. That is not to say there is anything wrong with not being willing to pre purchase a product. However, to assume you deserve the same product as someone else, simply because you deem yourself deserving of that company is just something I don't understand.

For me it is pretty cut and dry. you either approve of buying the product/deal they are currently offering or you don't. It is completely in the companies right to do this and it is completely in your right not to like it and in so doing, not buy it. But to think a company owes you what you deem they owe you from a product... Well like I said, I just don't get.

Modifié par Meltemph, 09 janvier 2011 - 12:02 .

[Daewan]

Isn't the whole point of faith to earn a distant and sometimes intangible reward? If you don't believe, you don't get anything. That's how it has always been. How is this new?

[Bryy_Miller]

TripedWire wrote...

Are you sure there is zero penalty to cancelling a pre-order? won't you lose a deposit?

Depends on what service you use. Direct2Drive offers no refund. I'm not sure what Steam's policy is, but I've heard that it is similar, but you can call them. Amazon's deal is the best, where you can just cancel and either the funds go back to you or you didn't pay at all.

[slimgrin]

Daewan wrote...

Isn't the whole point of faith to earn a distant and sometimes intangible reward? If you don't believe, you don't get anything. That's how it has always been. How is this new?

Well, your right about that, lol....

[Morroian]

TripedWire wrote...

The potential customers who prefer an honest sale over a hard one. I'm amazed that people not only accept being hard sold but even applaud it.

Its not dishonest, they've been up front and told us well in advance what the deal is. And I don't believe there is not enough information to make a decision, there is plenty of information out about the game now, if you're still unsure about the game due to the changes well don't pre-order but don't whine about not getting a reward.

[Meltemph]

If you cancel a pre-order on steam you get your money back(I've done it on many occasions).

[PinkysPain]

triggerhappy456 wrote...
It's simple, have faith that the game will be good and you get rewarded

I pre-ordered ME2 ... didn't feel very rewarded (yeah I know it isn't registered here, I really couldn't be bothered).

[nightcobra]

Sejborg wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

Sejborg wrote...

SirOccam wrote...

I think some people need to decide what they're arguing. Is it that this specific offer from BioWare is bad? Or that DLC is bad? Or that day-1 DLC is bad?

I think that this specific DLC preorder bonus is bad. I was fine with The Stone Prisoner deal though. 

and like i said in a previous post, i think that may be a good possibility:


"the way i see it, there are two different conditions in this 

1- pre-order the signature edition, you get sebastian for free, if not his price tag is 7 dollars 

2- project ten dollar implements aprox. 10 dollars worth of dlc if you buy a new game 

if condition 1 isn't met, condition 2 might kick in if you buy the game new and sebastian may implemented in this condition. 

if both conditions aren't met (buy the game used) you'd have to buy sebastian if you wanted him. 

I get what you are saying. But I think that your deal 1, is a worse deal than deal 2. All the people who are not super nerds like people who are haing out here, or are liking Dragon Age on Facebook, but still like Dragon Age, and will buy at day one is getting cheated for 7 dollars. They are simply not aware of this deal. They will have to give 7 dollars extra for the full experience than the person, who just so happen to preorder the game before some random date. 

Why make this weird deal instead of The Stone Prisoner deal? I think they want to make money on all the fans who are not paying attention and preordering months before release. They are simply trying to see how much they can push the consumer. 

i think you're misreading, i didn't say 2 different deals, i said 2 different conditions for the same deal.
project 10 dollar will still happen for DA2 giving the possibility of the inclusion of sebastian's dlc in new regular edition games.

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 09 janvier 2011 - 12:05 .

[BTCentral]

TripedWire wrote...

What's the rationale driving the decision to short change content-wise those of us that would like to evalute the game before commiting to a purchase?
It's not out until March and yet there's a 11th of January deadline for the signature edition?

1) You're not being short changed. Those that commit early, are being rewarded for doing so.

2) What's the problem? Pre-order from a retailer that does not charge for pre-orders (either online, or at your local store) and cancel if nearer the time you decide you don't like it.

I bet if they released a collectors edition instead of this, that you'd complain that they are charging extra for that too...

Next time, try thinking before posting.

*sigh*

Modifié par BTCentral, 09 janvier 2011 - 12:05 .

[Xewaka]

TripedWire wrote...
Are you sure there is zero penalty to cancelling a pre-order? won't you lose a deposit?

I had no penalty for canceling preorders at my gamestop shop. Then again, I went to a brick and mortar place, not online.

[Big Mabels Diet-Plan]

slimgrin wrote...

See OP?

4 pages later...count the votes for and against. Now go to another site, and count the votes.

Yeah I didn't expect this position to be supported here on BioWare's own forum but even so it's a topic worth discussing and it seems there's a sizeable minority who, even if they have pre-ordered, dont particularly appreciate the lemon they've been sold.

[Thetribeman]

So I have a very simple question that any who disagrees with these bonuses can answer in plain terms. What should Bioware have done?

[AuraofMana]

TripedWire wrote...

It seems pretty obnoxious. I'd like to see people reject this kind of tactic en masse for being cynical and manipulative. I'm concerned that if successfull, other developers will follow suit and as consumers we get to look forward to being treated with less and less respect and the idea of an honest exchange of money for demonstarble goods gets eroded.

God, do you even read your own **** before you post it?

Let me just get this out of the way:
The reason why there are day one DLC is because there is a period between when the game ships and when the game releases. Obviously the developers can't add new content without doing it through DLC's, and so they do this. In addition, it makes it somewhat harder for pirates to get the day one DLC on day one, so it gives it a little more incentive to buy the game instead of pirating it rather than doing an obnoxious DRM.

Okay, now that that's out of the way. The character and extra stuff that comes with the Signature Edition are preorder bonuses. They are available through DLC purchase if you do not want to preorder. So no, it is not exclusive. If you don't understand that you should go check what the word means.

In addition, you really shouldn't complain about this. There are actual exclusive preorder bonuses that you cannot get any other way other than preordering from a speciifc vendor. DA2 hasn't had any of those announced yet.

If you are going to argue that you have to pay for these DLC's because you didn't preorder, then you need to go convince people who buy games early for their full price to ask for refunds of differences between the original price and the eventual cheaper price as games age. They offered a choice and you get to pick. If you don't want to preorder, then you can't get the DLC's for free.

Lastly, you know very damn well complaining about this on a forum won't get it changed, not to mention your rant has zero reasoning behind it.

Modifié par AuraofMana, 09 janvier 2011 - 12:10 .

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

The fact that people actively encourage Day 0 DLC that prolly could be put on the disc anyways, combined with pre order deadlines to get said mystical day 0 DLC is nothing short of astounding to begin with. All done in the spirit of forcing people to buy new vs saving money on a used copy of a game.



Take sports titles as a perfect example, want multiplayer? Buy new, or pay 10-15 dollars extra for a component of the game that should be there regardless. At that point you may as well just buy new in the first place.



Yet people here actively encourage this crap.

[WidowMaker9394]

TripedWire wrote...

The video game industry is worth much more than the movie industry,

That's just laughable.

[Big Mabels Diet-Plan]

Thetribeman wrote...

So I have a very simple question that any who disagrees with these bonuses can answer in plain terms. What should Bioware have done?

Simply made a great game with energy, passion and enthusiasm, resulting in a product they proudly and wholeheartedly endorse and advertise to it's hardcore fans and newcomers by way of demos, trailers and in game footage.
Release the finished game onto the marketplace while eschewing all punitive day one DLC or pre-release blackmail and let the finished product speak for itself. If it's good it will sell, like mad.

[Revan312]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Correction:  I take Bioware at their word when they say DLC is not "content cut from the game" but "content that wouldn't exist if it wasn't DLC."  YMMV.

And what company would say otherwise? Shooting themselves in the foot is considered bad business and actually they could get fined for it.. Trust is the only thing that's relevent in that context and neither my view or yours can be proven.. I simply base my opinion on the corporate precedents of the past and you obviously put more faith in them than I do *shrug* There's nothing that puts more evidence on either side though.

If you do hate capitalism, then this is just a symptom - not the disease - and people saying that they can live with a certain symptom is different than saying they don't want a cure for the disease.

True, but the symptoms of capitalism are the reason all industries try to screw their customers, because if it increases holdings then they're doing what capitalism says they should. The gaming industry, although a very bad example of "exploitation" as it is simply entertainment and never needed, still shows just how pervasive and utterly bankrupt the morals of corporations are, which such motivations are the direct result of the free market capitalism system of economics..

If you don't hate capitalism, or are at worst indifferent do it - you probably don't see it as a class struggle?

Last time I got into that though, the thread got derailed into a discussion of Marxism between a lot of people who admitted they didn't really understand it and one person who claimed to who happened to be totally wrong.  So while it was kind of amusing, it was ultimately pointless.

I would consider myself a Marxist in the sense that labor is the defining characteristic of an economy and yet never reaps the benefits it should. Some of the restrictions on industry are a bit much imo with Marx but his defining idealistic goal is one I can agree with..

[Dave of Canada]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Take sports titles as a perfect example, want multiplayer? Buy new, or pay 10-15 dollars extra for a component of the game that should be there regardless.

Lord knows a company wants to make money.

At that point you may as well just buy new in the first place.

That's the point.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 09 janvier 2011 - 12:11 .

[AuraofMana]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

The fact that people actively encourage Day 0 DLC that prolly could be put on the disc anyways, combined with pre order deadlines to get said mystical day 0 DLC is nothing short of astounding to begin with. All done in the spirit of forcing people to buy new vs saving money on a used copy of a game.

Take sports titles as a perfect example, want multiplayer? Buy new, or pay 10-15 dollars extra for a component of the game that should be there regardless. At that point you may as well just buy new in the first place.

Yet people here actively encourage this crap.

If you do not understand the reason why Day 1 DLC exists, then you shouldn't comment on this. Google it up and try to use your brain for once. Would you rather they don't work on new content during the time when the game is shipping?

[Big Mabels Diet-Plan]

WidowMaker9394 wrote...

TripedWire wrote...

The video game industry is worth much more than the movie industry,

That's just laughable.

Do I really have to keep doing this?

http://games.slashdo...l?tid=98&tid=10

The $10 billion video game industry, which generates more revenue than Hollywood,

[Morroian]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

The fact that people actively encourage Day 0 DLC that prolly could be put on the disc anyways, combined with pre order deadlines to get said mystical day 0 DLC is nothing short of astounding to begin with. All done in the spirit of forcing people to buy new vs saving money on a used copy of a game.

Wow a business wants to encourage people to buy it new where they get the revenue from the sale vs used where they get no revenue from the sale, astounding stuff.

[KBomb]

I see the word "force" and "exploited" being used a lot. I don't understand this. How exactly is Bioware forcing anyone into buying their product?

[Thetribeman]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

The fact that people actively encourage Day 0 DLC that prolly could be put on the disc anyways, combined with pre order deadlines to get said mystical day 0 DLC is nothing short of astounding to begin with. All done in the spirit of forcing people to buy new vs saving money on a used copy of a game.

Take sports titles as a perfect example, want multiplayer? Buy new, or pay 10-15 dollars extra for a component of the game that should be there regardless. At that point you may as well just buy new in the first place.

Yet people here actively encourage this crap.

YES I actively encourage companies to make money. Plain and simple: companies cant make money if someone buys their games used. Why not offer incentives for buying the game new??? No one is "evil" in this, not gamestop, not bioware, nor EA. I applaud gamestop for their trade in values, it's brilliant and now their rich for it. In order to counter that, developers and publishers have to cook up a little brilliance of their own, it's competition, it's capitalism, and yields the best product.