298 réponses à ce sujet

[BTCentral]

AuraofMana wrote...

Okay, now that that's out of the way. The character and extra stuff that comes with the Signature Edition are preorder bonuses. They are available through DLC purchase if you do not want to preorder. So no, it is not exclusive. If you don't understand that you should go check what the word means.

Actually, the "Exclusive in-game items" are exclusive. Hence, being exclusive, rather than "available via DLC in-game items". The rest of it however, will be available one way or another.

Modifié par BTCentral, 09 janvier 2011 - 12:24 .

[Big Mabels Diet-Plan]

DarthCaine wrote...

To get more money maybe?

We have a winner!

To get more money. The aim of every creative individual/team surely!

[WidowMaker9394]

TripedWire wrote...

WidowMaker9394 wrote...

TripedWire wrote...

The video game industry is worth much more than the movie industry,

That's just laughable.

Do I really have to keep doing this?

http://games.slashdo...l?tid=98&tid=10

The $10 billion video game industry, which generates more revenue than Hollywood,

That article is six years old.

Sure, there's been some games that has been sold in huge numbers. But there's been a lot more movies bringing in those very sums and under a longer period as well.

You can't just use random articles you've Googled to prove your point. Then there's the fact that Bioware is a great developer but they don't see nearly as much sales as games like Call of Duty and Grand Theft Auto does. Another fun fact is that most of their fans are PC gamers. And a disappointingly large number of PC gamers constantly pirate their games. 

They need to make a living, they are business after all.

[Meltemph]

Sebastian is only free if I pre-order a Signature Edition, so because I don't buy the game when Bioware tells me to, I have to shell out 7 additional dollars to get content that should already be included?

If you don't like the offer then don't buy it... I am really not seeing the problem. This is a form of trade. They make you an offer and then you choose if you want to buy it or not. The idea that someone who makes something has to sell it by the consumers terms/demands because the consumer "deserves" it, is silly, specially since you are not forced to buy the product.

[DirtyVagrant]

"Pre-order Dragon Age 3 signature edition by so-and-so date and get the ending free! Otherwise pay $n to access ending content and complete your game!"

An extreme example, but still...

Modifié par DirtyVagrant, 09 janvier 2011 - 12:23 .

[Dave of Canada]

Revan312 wrote...

Thank god this level of thinking hasn't entered all industries..

"Oh, you want to buy this used car?  Well for 300 more bucks we'll throw in the coffee holders and the radio.., 600 and you'll get the passenger seat!"

Poor analogy. You don't need the DLC to have a full game, you need the seats and stuff to have a full car.

They didn't remove content. You still get the full package.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 09 janvier 2011 - 12:23 .

[Harid]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

Harid wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

Harid wrote...

Thetribeman wrote...

So I have a very simple question that any who disagrees with these bonuses can answer in plain terms. What should Bioware have done?

Release the game like they did with DA:O, all dlc for people who buy the game brand new, but unlike DA:O, all store dlc should have been buyable at one store.

that's an EA thing called project 10 dollars which gives free dlc that amounts to closely 10 bucks when you buy the game new, and it is still in effect.

so there's a good probability that sebastian (7bucks) is going to be implemented this way as well. 

This isn't day 1 dlc, I'll say again.

People didn't complain about The Stone Prisoner.  (At least as far as I know.)  I don't compare the two situations, nor am I arguing about that.

i disagree with that, day 1 dlc is any dlc that comes at launch as per the project 10 dollar amounting to closely 10 dollars.
if sebastian is included in this, it is EA's decision and he is known thereafter as day one dlc.

If I decide "Oh ****, Bioware got 9.9 ratings for Dragon Age 2. . .from let's say Eurogamer, I am gonna buy this game on release", And I  walk into a Kmart, and buy the game for 65.09 day one, I don't get  Sebastian.  I got Shale  for doing that with Dragon Age: Origins.  Again.  This is not Day 1 Dlc.

Modifié par Harid, 09 janvier 2011 - 12:25 .

[Thetribeman]

TripedWire wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

To get more money maybe?

We have a winner!

To get more money. The aim of every creative individual/team surely!

The creative team is what brings in the money. Bioware is a COMPANY. You are entirely welcome to make free games, see how far you get.

[Saibh]

Harid wrote...

This isn't really an argument I can agree with.

Most people don't complain about the Stone Prisoner.  You bought the game new, you got DLC.  Same applies the Cerberus Network.  People understood they were buying the game,a nd getting a reward to help curb piracy.

Right, because it's free stuff available to a wider audience. Free stuff that you are not promised and are not necessary and are treats and incentives. But BioWare has added an extra stipulation: yes, now more people are left out, but they are left out of something that was never promised to them. That they don't need. I'm not saying this pre-order method is better, but it's not stealing and it's not "withholding" content.

This game has been contentious from the start, since the first "Press a Button, something awesome happens" bad advertising came out for the game.  Everyone also knows that Bioware tends to make DLC gear the best gear in the game.  (See Mass Effect, see DA:O)

Because you have to buy it. In this instance, you don't. If you pre-order. That's the incentive. Who would buy DLC that was crappier than the stuff you get in the game? Why would anyone, except anal-retentive completionists?

Thus, people who want to wait and see are 'forced' with this hard sell to pre order the game, and people don't like that, thus the complaints.

Right, I agree (with the theory, not the tone ). But I don't think they have the right to complain. The privilege, being a free country and all, but there's no promise, no one is being stolen from, no one is losing anything. They're just not gaining a bonus.

I don't see it as me getting something free, but rather that is is something tacked on to get people who wanted to wait to buy to see if the changes they made to DA:2 will result in critical acclaim.  I kind of see it as a lack of faith in the final product from Bioware.  But like I said, I'm a cynic.

Pre-order incentives are pretty common. Most companies are fearful their product will not be met with the success they want. Some fantastic games--Shadow of the Colossus, Beyond Good and Evil, Psychonauts--never didn't well commercially. This is a precaution against that.

This isn't protection from piracy...

Shale didn't protect them from pirates. You can pirate DLC. Anyone who pirated the game would know this. It was an incentive to get people to buy it at full-price, instead of waiting.

Modifié par Saibh, 09 janvier 2011 - 12:26 .

[Cicero.me]

TripedWire wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

See OP?

4 pages later...count the votes for and against. Now go to another site, and count the votes.

Yeah I didn't expect this position to be supported here on BioWare's own forum but even so it's a topic worth discussing and it seems there's a sizeable minority who, even if they have pre-ordered, dont particularly appreciate the lemon they've been sold.

 Its not worth discussing for anyone who has taken an Economics 101 course. I for one implore you to realize that all you have done is creat a pointless thread about a beaten to death topic. All that has been accomplished here is helping people dig their heels into the ground.

While I am loathe to repeat what others have said ; I notice that you seem to selectively respond to some arguements and not others wich is fine. I for one have never felt shortchanged by hardsells. It is a simple cost benefit analysis. 

I do not do micro transactions which include dlc ever. They are not worth using a credit card for me. However, I preordered Dragon Age 2 because in all probability I am going to buy it. The preorder bonus is just that, a bonus. 

I do not understand your problem here, unless you are having trouble making a decision on whether or not to preorder the game. Therefore the fact is, you are upset that EA has put a carrot in front of you to tempt you. If that is so, then perhaps you are actually disapointed in yourself for being tempted. (I can sympathize here)

Fallacy of composition. If preodering the game and getting bonuses is not your cup of tea, then by all means do not do it. There are others who do not feel cheated in the slightest and are not affected by your individual and free willed choice. Thats the beauty of it all.


As a final note I do aplaud you for sicking to your guns this whole time even though it is probably easy with the help of internet obscurity. Kudos. 

Modifié par Cicero.me, 09 janvier 2011 - 12:25 .

[AuraofMana]

DirtyVagrant wrote...

This really isn't a viable argument here. Zaeed is available if you get a new copy of ME2. Sebastian is only free if I pre-order a Signature Edition, so because I don't buy the game when Bioware tells me to, I have to shell out 7 additional dollars to get content that should already be included?

Yes, yes you do. It's call a preorder bonus. I still don't understand why this is a problem. If you want the content you can preorder. If you don't you don't have to. If you aren't sure if you like the game enough to preorder, then don't. Pick one, you can't have best of both worlds. You may wonder why you can't and you may feel unfair, and that's fine. In fact, you don't even have to buy the game. You can complain as much as you want on the forum and you know damn well it will not get changed. Instead of doing all of this, however, you can just decide and act it out. There is no need to broadcast it to the world when you know it won't change or affect anything.

[DaewaNya]

We are customers, they are sellers. Gaming companies make offers, you like it, then buy it, you don't, then don't buy. They don't owe you anything, it's an offer. They make deals and offers, you can't negociate like you're on some local market. If you wanna play with Sebastien Vael you have 2 choices: preorder now or pay $7. That's how it is.

No matter what you think ("it should have been already on disc", "they are milking us","they are fighting against second hand copies",etc), it's business. Grow up and accept this reality. I don't say it's not a pain, to make a good deal is difficult.

You're only call is Buy it or not.

Modifié par DaewaNya, 09 janvier 2011 - 12:27 .

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

TripedWire wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

To get more money maybe?

We have a winner!

To get more money. The aim of every creative individual/team surely!

Yes. So they can afford to keep being creative in ways that we can then stick in our consoles/PCs and enjoy.

[DirtyVagrant]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Poor analogy. You don't need the DLC to have a full game, you need the seats and stuff to have a full car.

They didn't remove content. You still get the full package.

Arguably they have removed content and set it aside to sell it off as DLC. I can understand selling DLC after the release date, but on day one? I'm not cool with that. It's certainly an unfortunate that people accept this so readily, I suppose if you were already planning to preorder the game then it doesn't matter to you, but slapping a timelimit on the offer to get it "free" is lame.

[nightcobra]

Harid wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

Harid wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

Harid wrote...

Thetribeman wrote...

So I have a very simple question that any who disagrees with these bonuses can answer in plain terms. What should Bioware have done?

Release the game like they did with DA:O, all dlc for people who buy the game brand new, but unlike DA:O, all store dlc should have been buyable at one store.

that's an EA thing called project 10 dollars which gives free dlc that amounts to closely 10 bucks when you buy the game new, and it is still in effect.

so there's a good probability that sebastian (7bucks) is going to be implemented this way as well. 

This isn't day 1 dlc, I'll say again.

People didn't complain about The Stone Prisoner.  (At least as far as I know.)  I don't compare the two situations, nor am I arguing about that.

i disagree with that, day 1 dlc is any dlc that comes at launch as per the project 10 dollar amounting to closely 10 dollars.
if sebastian is included in this, it is EA's decision and he is known thereafter as day one dlc.

If I decide "Oh ****, Bioware got 9.9 ratings for Dragon Age 2. . .from let's say Eurogamer, I am gonna buy this game on release", And I  walk into a Kmart, and buy the game for 65.09 day one, I don't get  Sebastian.  I got Shale  for doing that with Dragon Age: Origins.  Again.  This is not Day 1 Dlc.

or.....you get a code for sebastian or any other dlc that amount to 10 dollars. that is day 1 dlc.

[Big Mabels Diet-Plan]

DirtyVagrant wrote...

"Pre-order Dragon Age 3 signature edition by so-and-so date and get the ending free! Otherwise pay $n to access ending content and complete your game!"

An extreme example, but still...

Not as extreme as you think. This was done on a PC release of Prince of Persia (forget which one) where you literally had to pay to get the games ending. lol

[Meltemph]

Poor analogy. You don't need the DLC to have a full game, you need the seats and stuff to have a full car.



They didn't remove content. You still get the full package.

It wouldn't matter even if it was removed though. The product, is what the producer is selling you. If the consumers interpretation of the product is that it is not a finished product, that is fine, that is part of being a consumer, but that does not make the product any less complete, in terms of being sold, the product is what the product is being sold as(from the producers side).



Now if I felt the product was incomplete, then it would be up to me to determine if it is worth the price at that point. The idea that you are getting "cheated" out of content is silly, because it is not like they are keeping these things from us.

[Revan312]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Revan312 wrote...

Thank god this level of thinking hasn't entered all industries..

"Oh, you want to buy this used car?  Well for 300 more bucks we'll throw in the coffee holders and the radio.., 600 and you'll get the passenger seat!"

Poor analogy. You don't need the DLC to have a full game, you need the seats and stuff to have a full car.

They didn't remove content. You still get the full package.

You don't need the passenger seat, cup holders or radio for a car to work, ask my sister who still drives around a beater with none of the three.. You don't need this DLC for this game to be complete, both the car's goodies and the DLC make each more comfortable/enjoyable..  It simply that people have come to demand such things in a car for it to be complete yet DLC still gets defended as being completely optional and uneeded. 

Regardless, it works the same way, the DLC hasn't been made after the fact, it's essentially done I'm assuming as they have a trailer out for it right now, 2 months prior to release and it's been advertised for more months than that as an incentive. It's going to be Day 1 DLC which is just ridiculous to me, and that goes for any company, dev or game that uses it..

[AuraofMana]

DirtyVagrant wrote...

Arguably they have removed content and set it aside to sell it off as DLC. I can understand selling DLC after the release date, but on day one? I'm not cool with that. It's certainly an unfortunate that people accept this so readily, I suppose if you were already planning to preorder the game then it doesn't matter to you, but slapping a timelimit on the offer to get it "free" is lame.

Wrong, not everything they make during development is considered content. You really don't understand how a business work.

[Sejborg]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

Sejborg wrote...

Do you agree that this preorder deal is different than The Stone Prisoner deal?

while project 10 dollar is still active until the end of this fiscal year (march 31st), i'd say no because i believe it will be the same deal.

I'm sorry. I must be dumb or something. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/smile.png[/smilie]

Why are they marketing it this way, if it is going to be the same deal? They could just make The Stone Prisoner deal again, but this time around just be calling it: Sebastian the Prince. And then make it free for everybody who buys the game new. 

[TonyTheBossDanza123]

TripedWire wrote...

It seems pretty obnoxious. I'd like to see people reject this kind of tactic en masse for being cynical and manipulative. I'm concerned that if successfull, other developers will follow suit and as consumers we get to look forward to being treated with less and less respect and the idea of an honest exchange of money for demonstarble goods gets eroded.

Welcome to the 21st century, where no longer do the consumers have power. Or more correctly, no longer do we use our power. Corporations do whatever they want and we just eat it up.

I can't wait for the next revolution, it is seriously needed.

[Ryzaki]

TripedWire wrote...

DirtyVagrant wrote...

"Pre-order Dragon Age 3 signature edition by so-and-so date and get the ending free! Otherwise pay $n to access ending content and complete your game!"

An extreme example, but still...

Not as extreme as you think. This was done on a PC release of Prince of Persia (forget which one) where you literally had to pay to get the games ending. lol

*jaw hits floor* 

WAT

[Big Mabels Diet-Plan]

Pseudocognition wrote...

TripedWire wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

To get more money maybe?

We have a winner!

To get more money. The aim of every creative individual/team surely!

Yes. So they can afford to keep being creative in ways that we can then stick in our consoles/PCs and enjoy.

Nope. Van Gogh sold one painting in his lifetime and were it not for the the financial support of his brother would have died in poverty.

[nightcobra]

Sejborg wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

Sejborg wrote...

Do you agree that this preorder deal is different than The Stone Prisoner deal?

while project 10 dollar is still active until the end of this fiscal year (march 31st), i'd say no because i believe it will be the same deal.

I'm sorry. I must be dumb or something. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/smile.png[/smilie]

Why are they marketing it this way, if it is going to be the same deal? They could just make The Stone Prisoner deal again, but this time around just be calling it: Sebastian the Prince. And then make it free for everybody who buys the game new. 

to get people to pre-order?

shale was marketed the same way for the collector's edition before she was announced as day one dlc i believe.

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 09 janvier 2011 - 12:33 .