109 réponses à ce sujet

[Bourne Endeavor]

Nightwriter wrote...



ME2 was an RPG. If some of us think it wasn't a terribly good RPG, well, that's our opinions. But it was an RPG.



You simply think it wasn't because it significantly limited your ability to roleplay the character you created in ME1.

Frankly, I would argue the extent of ME2's limitations in regards to RPG. It certain has its foibles but far more removed from being Halo than some would like to believe.

[xentar]

Nightwriter wrote...

I am curious who these "old school gamers" are, what they want, what they are being denied, and why they think it's happening.

I do not feel I have a good grasp of their platform.

To give you an example, I would be interested in seeing an RPG with turn-based combat. Not because I think it's superior or anything (I don't think there is an objectively superior combat system), but at least for the sake of diversity. I can't remember anything major like that being made after 2003. Plus, it would be rather pleasant to see realism win over flashy audiovisuals/drama (but not necessarily gameplay) for once.

[Kronner]

xentar wrote...

To give you an example, I would be interested in seeing an RPG with turn-based combat. Not because I think it's superior or anything (I don't think there is an objectively superior combat system), but at least for the sake of diversity. I can't remember anything major like that being made after 2003. Plus, it would be rather pleasant to see realism win over flashy audiovisuals/drama (but not necessarily gameplay) for once.

King's Bounty?

Modifié par Kronner, 09 janvier 2011 - 12:16 .

[Sammuthegreat]

I see people do it every single day on this forum, but I just don't understand HOW people can claim that ME1 wasn't a shooter-RPG too. I mean, what did you do for 90% of the game? The shooting:conversation ratio of ME2 is no higher than it was in ME1. The shooting parts just work better, so they're more memorable.

[Gibb_Shepard]

Phaelducan wrote...

Why can't this be put to rest? Whatever misguided notions people have about what an RPG is... ME2 was definitely an RPG, and not even loosely-defined.

Pick a legitimate source, and ME2 will be labeled as an RPG. This genre-elitism is absurd.

Yeah it's an RPG, it is however an extremely limited RPG. The amount of customisation and character building in ME2 is absolutely tiny, but i have a strong feeling Bioware will bring back such things for ME3, which i'm looking forward to greatly.

[xentar]

Kronner wrote...

xentar wrote...

To give you an example, I would be interested in seeing an RPG with turn-based combat. Not because I think it's superior or anything (I don't think there is an objectively superior combat system), but at least for the sake of diversity. I can't remember anything major like that being made after 2003. Plus, it would be rather pleasant to see realism win over flashy audiovisuals/drama (but not necessarily gameplay) for once.

King's Bounty?

I tend to perceive it more as a strategy with RPG elements.

Modifié par xentar, 09 janvier 2011 - 12:21 .

[Artevere]

Phaelducan wrote...

Why can't this be put to rest? Whatever misguided notions people have about what an RPG is... ME2 was definitely an RPG, and not even loosely-defined.

Pick a legitimate source, and ME2 will be labeled as an RPG. This genre-elitism is absurd.

But it is inevitable. People think they are better than everyone else because they played Baldur's Gate and Bard's Tale. Now suddenly nothing new is an RPG 'cause they durn well say so!

Sorry, ME 1 was a ****ty game. ME 2 was far superior, and I could actually play through it without falling asleep. Not an RPG? Sorry, if Zelda is classed as an RPG, how can you possible argue against ME2? Isn't Zelda the same? Wack wack wack, pick up rupees. How about Final Fantasy? wack wack wack, grab ****, save world. Guess that's not an RPG then?

What, you have to have a stat system with an electronic randomizer? Yeah, because we won't sit there for an hour hitting re-roll until we get a character worth taking...

This thread serves no purpose except to allow a couple individuals to soapbox about how their untalented and unskilled selves know more about games than the people who have spent the last 20 years of their lives making them.

I mean, seriously, of all the things you could complain about in ME 2, it's the game play? Not the crappy "cerberus" DMA? Not the horrible content management system for DLC? Not the account activation requirement?

Talk about splitting hairs...

[BiancoAngelo7]

Oh no, not THIS again....



Can't we all just agree on the objective truth? They did an excellent job refining the combat from ME1 to ME2 (except for the poor implementation of clips with no secondary cooling system)



and that they needed to ALSO include some more RPG elements instead of streamline it to the max like they did in ME2.



There.



We can't just say that without calling each other RPG purists, xbox fanboy shooters or evil Chtulu's??



-.- seriously...

[Gibb_Shepard]

Artevere wrote...


I mean, seriously, of all the things you could complain about in ME 2, it's the game play? Not the horribly disconnected and plot hole filled story? Not the crappy "cerberus" DMA? Not the horrible content management system for DLC? Not the account activation requirement?

Talk about splitting hairs...

Fixed for you kind sir, no charge.

Modifié par Gibb_Shepard, 09 janvier 2011 - 12:33 .

[Pwnsaur]

BiancoAngelo7 wrote...

Oh no, not THIS again....

Can't we all just agree on the objective truth? They did an excellent job refining the combat from ME1 to ME2 (except for the poor implementation of clips with no secondary cooling system)

and that they needed to ALSO include some more RPG elements instead of streamline it to the max like they did in ME2.

There.

We can't just say that without calling each other RPG purists, xbox fanboy shooters or evil Chtulu's??

-.- seriously...

Agreed.





On a completely unrelated note, I think you are an evil Cthuhlu!

[Nightwriter]

xentar wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

I am curious who these "old school gamers" are, what they want, what they are being denied, and why they think it's happening.

I do not feel I have a good grasp of their platform.

To give you an example, I would be interested in seeing an RPG with turn-based combat. Not because I think it's superior or anything (I don't think there is an objectively superior combat system), but at least for the sake of diversity. I can't remember anything major like that being made after 2003. Plus, it would be rather pleasant to see realism win over flashy audiovisuals/drama (but not necessarily gameplay) for once.

I am always a story lover first, but I have never found turn-based combat exciting, and enjoy the more entertaining and realistic approach of real time combat.

[Nightwriter]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

ME2 was an RPG. If some of us think it wasn't a terribly good RPG, well, that's our opinions. But it was an RPG.

You simply think it wasn't because it significantly limited your ability to roleplay the character you created in ME1.

Frankly, I would argue the extent of ME2's limitations in regards to RPG. It certain has its foibles but far more removed from being Halo than some would like to believe.

This post confuses me... are you agreeing with what I said, or disagreeing with it?

[jojon2se]

BiancoAngelo7 wrote...
...
Can't we all just agree on the objective truth?
...

...or just agree that this is ALL subjective and learn to live with our diverging tastes. :7

[xentar]

Nightwriter wrote...

I am always a story lover first, but I have never found turn-based combat exciting, and enjoy the more entertaining and realistic approach of real time combat.

Well, I tend to prefer the feel of turn-based combat. It's really a rather subjective matter of personal preference. I don't see any objective superiority in one style or another. Turn-based systems are just less popular and will thus generate less profit, so they tend to be completely forgotten when other alternatives are available.

[Phaedon]

TMZuk wrote...

wait..... did ME2 have a story??

Oh yes. Gather companions and kill the bad guy.

I totally agree with you!

ME1's story was so much better!

I mean, in ME2 what you do is gather companions from several places, whereas in ME1 you just gather them from the Citadel and Therum! Isn't that awesome?

In ME2, then you had 4 story-based missions (First colony,Horizon, Collector Ship, Reaper IFF), whereas in ME1 you had...wait for it... 3 story based missions! (Feros,Noveria,Virmire). Isn't that awesome?

And then, heh, all you had to do in ME2 was to kill the bad guy (Suicide Mission). I mean, lol. It didn't have a much more complex ending like ME1 had. You know, kill the bad guy (Final Mission).

I'd continue, but my sarcasm would probably become lethal. Yes, ME2 had a story. Where is this amazing story that ME1 had? I don't see the difference.

[Zaifon]

put ME1's armour/weapon/skill customize along with story,  together with ME2's gameplay and we got a great game, for the lord of god don't dumb it down further, ME2 was barely an RPG... ME1 skill/level/armour/weaponry customization was good, can be improved (for more armours/weaponry), i do like ME3 to have a **** ton of items to be going through.


if they keep simplifying the game, we will be seeing Call of duty Effect 3 instead....

Modifié par Zaifon, 09 janvier 2011 - 12:42 .

[Phaedon]

Zaifon wrote...

put ME1's armour/weapon/skill customize along with story,  together with ME2's gameplay and we got a great game, for the lord of god don't dumb it down further, ME2 was barely an RPG... ME1 skill/level/armour/weaponry customization was good, can be improved (for more armours/weaponry), i do like ME3 to have a **** ton of items to be going through.


if they keep simplifying the game, we will be seeing Call of duty Effect 3 instead....

If you are implying that stats is what makes an RPG, then Sim City is the best RPG evar.

[TheRealIncarnal]

GodWood wrote...

You're complaining about ME2 and yet praising the storyline?
Da ****?

The Storyline is fine enough, but the gameplay is a sad change of genre. I'm still a bit perplexed as to why they felt the need to change Mass Effect from an RPG to a Third-Person Shooter. 

For the record I am an evil Chtuluist, but I'd love to see them put the RPG back in Mass Effect 3. 

Modifié par TheRealIncarnal, 09 janvier 2011 - 12:51 .

[Zaifon]

Phaedon wrote...

Zaifon wrote...

put ME1's armour/weapon/skill customize along with story,  together with ME2's gameplay and we got a great game, for the lord of god don't dumb it down further, ME2 was barely an RPG... ME1 skill/level/armour/weaponry customization was good, can be improved (for more armours/weaponry), i do like ME3 to have a **** ton of items to be going through.


if they keep simplifying the game, we will be seeing Call of duty Effect 3 instead....

If you are implying that stats is what makes an RPG, then Sim City is the best RPG evar.

Stats is part of RPG elements, don't deny it, ME2 barely had any RPG going for it, other than "choices".

[Khayness]

Phaedon wrote...

Mass Effect 2 for the PC was developed from scratch, so this really doesn't support your argument.

That explains why the controls use non of the keyboard+mouse's usual settings.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Bogsnot1 wrote...

Because the vocal, whiney, Xbox shootemup minority outweighed the silent majority who have been Bioware fans since Baldurs Gate.

But I've been a fan since Shattered Steel

Why must you deny the loooooooooooove?

[Phaedon]

TheRealIncarnal wrote...
The Storyline is fine, but the gameplay is a sad change of genre. I'm still a bit perplexed as to why they felt the need to change Mass Effect from an RPG to a Third-Person Shooter. 

Mass Effect was never a pure RPG. It was hybrid RPG/TPS all the time. Let's take a look at all of the things that have changed, in order to see if the genre really changed.

• The shooting component is better.
• The inventory still exists, but you can't upgrade your weapons from there.
• Upgrades still exist, but only if you use the research terminal.

I think not.

Zaifon wrote...
Stats is part of RPG elements, don't deny it, ME2 barely had any RPG going for it, other than "choices". 

Wrong. Stats exist in all games, they just aren't that visible. The only reason for which the stats became visible in RPGs is because unlike other genres at the time (adventures, platform games, shooters etc), the technology did not allow the player to have the freedom to actually do the things described in the game, but rather simulate them. Now, we can. The player has full control over Shepard's actions.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Those mother****ing ghosts in Pac Man would incrementally get faster each time you did a level, and at one point when you ate a power pellet it wouldn't even stun the ****ers

[BiancoAngelo7]

Pwnsaur wrote...

BiancoAngelo7 wrote...

Oh no, not THIS again....

Can't we all just agree on the objective truth? They did an excellent job refining the combat from ME1 to ME2 (except for the poor implementation of clips with no secondary cooling system)

and that they needed to ALSO include some more RPG elements instead of streamline it to the max like they did in ME2.

There.

We can't just say that without calling each other RPG purists, xbox fanboy shooters or evil Chtulu's??

-.- seriously...

Agreed.





On a completely unrelated note, I think you are an evil Cthuhlu!

SONUVA!....

I told you not to tell anyone!!! We agreed 5 Tupari Soda cans a week would suffice to buy your silence!....

Great now I have to go tuck in my tentacles again....*goes to evil Chtulu powder room*