672 réponses à ce sujet

[CARL_DF90]

Meh. Now that I have had time to reflect on ME2 as a whole, I realize that it could have been better story wise.

[RiouHotaru]

iakus wrote...

@Il Divo

While I love to debate the merits of ME 2's story with someone who doesn't accuse me of being an elitist hater who kicks puppies in his spare time, I suspect we're getting way past the scope of this particular thread  Unless we want to stretch it to include Commander Shepard as a character   if you want to start another thread about this, I'll be glad to meet you on the field of battle.

...Let's not get into whether Shepard is a character or not.  It's a Western RPG, you should know how Western RPGs treat their protagonists.  And that would be something for another thread...or a video.

[InvincibleHero]

I liked the end sequence a lot more in ME2. Instead of just you and two squadmates you got to pick and choose from everyone you had. This made it much more epic. The characters had more meaning. They could do that which they were good at. Samara protecting my team with a biotic bubble added to the drama of the characters.

[Il Divo]

iakus wrote...

@Il Divo

While I love to debate the merits of ME 2's story with someone who doesn't accuse me of being an elitist hater who kicks puppies in his spare time, I suspect we're getting way past the scope of this particular thread  Unless we want to stretch it to include Commander Shepard as a character   if you want to start another thread about this, I'll be glad to meet you on the field of battle.

Any thoughts on what you would like it to be called?

[Element Engine]

I really liked the concept of ME2 being the Dirty Dozen/Seven Samurai/Ocean's 11 type thing where you're building this great team for the grand finale but it could've been executed a little better. Like other people have said, some character's felt detached and unimportant to the story. The whole idea and the character's themselves should've been showcased with more importance. That's my biggest critique.



Regardless it's still an amazing game and I can't wait for ME3.

[bondKI]

Element Engine wrote...

I really liked the concept of ME2 being the Dirty Dozen/Seven Samurai/Ocean's 11 type thing where you're building this great team for the grand finale but it could've been executed a little better. Like other people have said, some character's felt detached and unimportant to the story. The whole idea and the character's themselves should've been showcased with more importance. That's my biggest critique.

Regardless it's still an amazing game and I can't wait for ME3.

/sign

[SithLordExarKun]

Moiaussi wrote...

So you figure the criticism is all some sort of conspiracy? Never even looked at those reviews til now. These forums are likely a lot more often read by the devs than fan comments on any third party site.

Other than your own paranoia, do you have any evidence that the posters are the same people here?

Same username(s), same attitude and identical posting style. Hell some of them even admit to posting the same crap they do here on other websites.

Moiaussi wrote...
You completely misunderstood what I said. The reviewer stated decisions in ME1 have a significant effect on ME2, and those in ME2 will have a significant effect on ME3.

The truth is they don't make much difference and i would agree this is a pretty sh!tty decision "import", i never denied that. The only way to see if the decisions are truly significant well is in ME3.

Moiaussi wrote...
I am not talking about my expectations. I am talking about a reviewer misrepresenting the product in a review. The reviews may be positive, but seem to either focus primarily on gameplay (which is improved), or gloss over or misrepresent continuity to the point where the review becomes questionable.

The thing is, i would agree that the story does need improvement and much more polish.

But a game with a good story and crap gameplay wouldn't work, its like having a big dick but no balls. I feel both ME games suffer from this, ME1 does have the better plot and overall story but has laughable gameplay mechanics(though in this case the game for me still works sd i enjoy the entire atmoshpere and setting) while ME2 is vice versa(yes, i admit that some parts of ME2 are extremely stupid).

[Moiaussi]

SithLordExarKun wrote...

Same username(s), same attitude and identical posting style. Hell some of them even admit to posting the same crap they do here on other websites.

I'll take your word for it (other than the comments being crap). Personally I have better things to do than compare usernames between web sites. Even if it is the same posters, though, what is your basis for simply dismissing criticism?

I am sure there are comments that are crap, but dismissing every negative comment in that fashion, or even the majority seems more than a bit fanatic.

The truth is they don't make much difference and i would agree this is a pretty sh!tty decision "import", i never denied that. The only way to see if the decisions are truly significant well is in ME3.

So you accept that said criticism of that particular review isn't 'crap?'

The thing is, i would agree that the story does need improvement and much more polish.

But a game with a good story and crap gameplay wouldn't work, its like having a big dick but no balls. I feel both ME games suffer from this, ME1 does have the better plot and overall story but has laughable gameplay mechanics(though in this case the game for me still works sd i enjoy the entire atmoshpere and setting) while ME2 is vice versa(yes, i admit that some parts of ME2 are extremely stupid).

I agree with you on the gameplay, and that it is much improved in ME2. This thread isn't about the gameplay though nor about ME2 overall. ME2 overall was a good game marred by a weak story, whereas ME1 was a good game marred by weak gameplay.

The two shouldn't be mutually exclusive though.

There are a lot of other directions they could have gone with the story that would have worked a lot better for 'part 2', such as tieing up loose ends in the terminus systems, which is easily an interesting enough region that it didn't need the collectors and could easily have ended with an epic battle on somewhere like Omega. Reapers could have been kept in by way of indoctrinated sleeper agents starting to wake up,  or heretics still acting as reaper agents, or perhaps even the heretics being the ones working on the proto-reaper.

Or it not being known who shot down the Normandy until later into ME2 and at the end, the collector base discovered under construction as a staging area and/or as a remote 'citadel' rather than constructing the human reaper.

Since the focus would have been on preparations against the reapers rather than the reapers themselves, the 'character driven plot' would have tied in nicely. One thing all the recruits do have in common is ties to the terminus systems, or at least good reasons for them to have useful opinions on the region.

Just a few minor directional changes and they could have kept essentially the same plot and had it work a lot better.

[ZABL2010]

I was very surprised by this theme. Maybe something I did not understand correctly. English is the second for me. But without a history there would be no features almost all the characters. Their characters - a product of history. Particularly noticeable in romantic story. In our little video we try to show this fact. How are all the characters in the game - they are - product of history.

To say - figuratively, but in essence, our story is devoted to "Comparative description of love stories." However, romantic love - is always the children .... But this is a continuation of the story ...

http://www.dailymoti...li-ashley_music

[Marta Rio]

Element Engine wrote...

I really liked the concept of ME2 being the Dirty Dozen/Seven Samurai/Ocean's 11 type thing where you're building this great team for the grand finale but it could've been executed a little better. Like other people have said, some character's felt detached and unimportant to the story. The whole idea and the character's themselves should've been showcased with more importance. That's my biggest critique.

Regardless it's still an amazing game and I can't wait for ME3.

I haven't seen the Dirty Dozen or the Seven Samurai (I know, I know, I should be ashamed of myself).  But Ocean's 11 I have seen.  And one thing I thought was good about that plot (at least in the new version) was they explained why they needed to recruit each person.  And then they showed each person doing the job that they were recruited for.

I thought that Bioware could have made the team building aspect of the plot more effective if they had shown why each individual was vital to the mission.  That would have also meant there were definite consequences to not recruiting a team-member, and not a case of "Turned Legion over to Cerberus? It's ok just use Tali instead.  Or Kasumi, if you prefer."

[SonofMacPhisto]

Nightwriter wrote...

Inspired by Casey Hudson’s statement that people who speak of ME2’s lack of story do not understand that the characters are the story. I think this deserves some thought and respect. Actual quote I paraphrased is here.

To fans, I ask:

Did you feel that the characters constituted the story, like Casey says, or did the characters feel separate from the story? If they did feel separate to you, why did they feel separate? Why didn't you experience the story-character fusion Casey describes? Were the characters enough to carry the game to your satisfaction?

ME2 gets a lot of criticism for lack of story. If Casey's suggestion is right (and I think it at least deserves consideration), and the characters are the story, a lot of that criticism becomes unfair. So... is it unfair?

This is a huge thread, and I feel bad that I have no hope (or time!) to honestly get caught up with it.  Here's how I'd respond to you OP, since I've read you other places and respect your opinions.

Mass Effect 2 exceeded my expectations.  The characters contributed greatly to that satisfaction and I certainly experienced a character-story fusion.  

Why?

You were undertaking a suicide mission to stop the Collectors, who are working for your real enemy, the Reapers.  That was compelling to me, but especially with that fatal spectre hanging above it all.  Hell, the game starts out with killing you!  So now we're going to risk it again?  Knowingly?  

Suicide.  Death.  Do we stop and think what it means to ask someone to join us, and likely end their life?

So for me, the characters and their stories contributed very positively.  We had to be ready, not just with equipment and numbers, but in our souls and hearts.  I took the Asari Consort's e-mail very seriously, where she implored me to make sure my squad went into battle with glad hearts.  I didn't want Jacob or Miranda worrying about their families, or Tali about the fleet, or Grunt freaking out in the middle of battle.  I got to at least connect with every member of my old squad, the only family I've ever had in this fictional universe, and at least know they were alive and well before I lept into the great unknown.

So having that sensitivity, I was perfectly comfortable with each member of the team saying, 'Listen, if you want my help on this, we need to take care of this first.' 

My first time through the Suicide Mission is one of the best experiences I've ever had in a video game.  It was like Virmire-Ilos-Citadel on every upper you can imagine.  Best of all?  My careful preperation led to a flawless execution.  The finale was breath-taking, and as the credits rolled, my mouth was agape with tears in my eyes.  We'd done it!

Now, of course, there were wonky moments.  'Whoa, EVERYONE on my squad has some issue to take care of?'  'EDI, why do we all have to get on the shuttle?  I just want to scan this planet...'  Thing is, as gamers, we need to have a certain amount of grace with our medium.  It's young and inexperienced, and it's still figuring out what its can do as art, or even if it CAN be art.

I hope that takes care of some icky negativity.  Too much of that, and you might as well start pissing in your breakfast cereal.  

Modifié par SonofMacPhisto, 16 janvier 2011 - 02:27 .

[SithLordExarKun]

Moiaussi wrote...



I'll take your word for it (other than the comments being crap). Personally I have better things to do than compare usernames between web sites. Even if it is the same posters, though, what is your basis for simply dismissing criticism?

I don't, i just happen to see these comments posted by the same usernames. Some of t he criticisms do have merits while i dismiss the ones that are "ME2 is crap, ME1 ftw, anybody that likes ME2 is a bioware apologist or a dumb shooter fan".

[SonofMacPhisto]

Marta Rio wrote...

Element Engine wrote...

I really liked the concept of ME2 being the Dirty Dozen/Seven Samurai/Ocean's 11 type thing where you're building this great team for the grand finale but it could've been executed a little better. Like other people have said, some character's felt detached and unimportant to the story. The whole idea and the character's themselves should've been showcased with more importance. That's my biggest critique.

Regardless it's still an amazing game and I can't wait for ME3.

I haven't seen the Dirty Dozen or the Seven Samurai (I know, I know, I should be ashamed of myself).  But Ocean's 11 I have seen.  And one thing I thought was good about that plot (at least in the new version) was they explained why they needed to recruit each person.  And then they showed each person doing the job that they were recruited for.

I thought that Bioware could have made the team building aspect of the plot more effective if they had shown why each individual was vital to the mission.  That would have also meant there were definite consequences to not recruiting a team-member, and not a case of "Turned Legion over to Cerberus? It's ok just use Tali instead.  Or Kasumi, if you prefer."

I like the Ocean's 11 comparison, but with Mass Effect 2 we didn't know what were getting in to past the Omega 4 relay.  So it turns out not everyone had a critical role, like with the vents or the squad leaders, but that's hindsight.  Besides, if you don't have enough squaddies to 'hold the line,' people start to die.  So in a way, they were all important.

I'd also like to point out that not every character got to be Danny Ocean or Rusty in Ocean's 11.  Kind of like how in Mass Effect 2, not every character got to be a Mordin or Legion.  We shouldn't be so critical of those second bananas.

Modifié par SonofMacPhisto, 16 janvier 2011 - 02:35 .

[Lewie]

Moiaussi wrote...

SithLordExarKun wrote...

Same username(s), same attitude and identical posting style. Hell some of them even admit to posting the same crap they do here on other websites.

I'll take your word for it (other than the comments being crap). Personally I have better things to do than compare usernames between web sites. Even if it is the same posters, though, what is your basis for simply dismissing criticism?

I am sure there are comments that are crap, but dismissing every negative comment in that fashion, or even the majority seems more than a bit fanatic.

The truth is they don't make much difference and i would agree this is a pretty sh!tty decision "import", i never denied that. The only way to see if the decisions are truly significant well is in ME3.

So you accept that said criticism of that particular review isn't 'crap?'

The thing is, i would agree that the story does need improvement and much more polish.

But a game with a good story and crap gameplay wouldn't work, its like having a big dick but no balls. I feel both ME games suffer from this, ME1 does have the better plot and overall story but has laughable gameplay mechanics(though in this case the game for me still works sd i enjoy the entire atmoshpere and setting) while ME2 is vice versa(yes, i admit that some parts of ME2 are extremely stupid).

I agree with you on the gameplay, and that it is much improved in ME2. This thread isn't about the gameplay though nor about ME2 overall. ME2 overall was a good game marred by a weak story, whereas ME1 was a good game marred by weak gameplay.

The two shouldn't be mutually exclusive though.

There are a lot of other directions they could have gone with the story that would have worked a lot better for 'part 2', such as tieing up loose ends in the terminus systems, which is easily an interesting enough region that it didn't need the collectors and could easily have ended with an epic battle on somewhere like Omega. Reapers could have been kept in by way of indoctrinated sleeper agents starting to wake up,  or heretics still acting as reaper agents, or perhaps even the heretics being the ones working on the proto-reaper.

Or it not being known who shot down the Normandy until later into ME2 and at the end, the collector base discovered under construction as a staging area and/or as a remote 'citadel' rather than constructing the human reaper.

Since the focus would have been on preparations against the reapers rather than the reapers themselves, the 'character driven plot' would have tied in nicely. One thing all the recruits do have in common is ties to the terminus systems, or at least good reasons for them to have useful opinions on the region.

Just a few minor directional changes and they could have kept essentially the same plot and had it work a lot better.

Ttieing up 'loose ends' in the Terminus wouldn't work on a big scale they would have to pick specific incidents which they have done already. The collectors are already involved with many species an all out war on omega would be pointless (omega looks like a collector ship in a way already) but all the underlying story is the preparation for 3. For eg.. Grunt is bult using 'partly' collector technology which i immediately was angered by.. and liara tells you that you are not the first body to go through the shadow broker/collectors hands which means if Shepard has been dead for 2 years there is still a lot you don't know. Preparation against the reapers includes taking out the collectors and your crew can't be any more diverse, they already touch each species personally bar vorcha and batarians. 

[Nightwriter]

SonofMacPhisto wrote...

This is a huge thread, and I feel bad that I have no hope (or time!) to honestly get caught up with it.  Here's how I'd respond to you OP, since I've read you other places and respect your opinions.

Mass Effect 2 exceeded my expectations.  The characters contributed greatly to that satisfaction and I certainly experienced a character-story fusion.  

Why?

You were undertaking a suicide mission to stop the Collectors, who are working for your real enemy, the Reapers.  That was compelling to me, but especially with that fatal spectre hanging above it all.  Hell, the game starts out with killing you!  So now we're going to risk it again?  Knowingly?  

Suicide.  Death.  Do we stop and think what it means to ask someone to join us, and likely end their life?

So for me, the characters and their stories contributed very positively.  We had to be ready, not just with equipment and numbers, but in our souls and hearts.  I took the Asari Consort's e-mail very seriously, where she implored me to make sure my squad went into battle with glad hearts.  I didn't want Jacob or Miranda worrying about their families, or Tali about the fleet, or Grunt freaking out in the middle of battle.  I got to at least connect with every member of my old squad, the only family I've ever had in this fictional universe, and at least know they were alive and well before I lept into the great unknown.

So having that sensitivity, I was perfectly comfortable with each member of the team saying, 'Listen, if you want my help on this, we need to take care of this first.' 

My first time through the Suicide Mission is one of the best experiences I've ever had in a video game.  It was like Virmire-Ilos-Citadel on every upper you can imagine.  Best of all?  My careful preperation led to a flawless execution.  The finale was breath-taking, and as the credits rolled, my mouth was agape with tears in my eyes.  We'd done it!

Now, of course, there were wonky moments.  'Whoa, EVERYONE on my squad has some issue to take care of?'  'EDI, why do we all have to get on the shuttle?  I just want to scan this planet...'  Thing is, as gamers, we need to have a certain amount of grace with our medium.  It's young and inexperienced, and it's still figuring out what its can do as art, or even if it CAN be art.

I hope that takes care of some icky negativity.  Too much of that, and you might as well start pissing in your breakfast cereal.  

Fair enough. Good show.

Though, I think BioWare has done a pretty great job with the storylines of its other games. ME2 is quite the anomaly. So, I think you should amend your sentence there to say we should be lenient with BioWare's first trilogy sequel. Because it is quite a young medium.

[Moiaussi]

Marta Rio wrote...
I haven't seen the Dirty Dozen or the Seven Samurai (I know, I know, I should be ashamed of myself).  But Ocean's 11 I have seen.  And one thing I thought was good about that plot (at least in the new version) was they explained why they needed to recruit each person.  And then they showed each person doing the job that they were recruited for.

I thought that Bioware could have made the team building aspect of the plot more effective if they had shown why each individual was vital to the mission.  That would have also meant there were definite consequences to not recruiting a team-member, and not a case of "Turned Legion over to Cerberus? It's ok just use Tali instead.  Or Kasumi, if you prefer."

Very much agreed. It wasn't even 'just use Tali instead.' You could have tossed a rubber chicken down the vent and there would have been no negative consequences to the mission. The concept that people were using the final mission to get rid of disliked characters rather than having to make sure everyone survives to have a chance at success is so inherrently wrong, and bad writing.

[Moiaussi]

louise101 wrote...

Ttieing up 'loose ends' in the Terminus wouldn't work on a big scale they would have to pick specific incidents which they have done already. The collectors are already involved with many species an all out war on omega would be pointless (omega looks like a collector ship in a way already) but all the underlying story is the preparation for 3. For eg.. Grunt is bult using 'partly' collector technology which i immediately was angered by.. and liara tells you that you are not the first body to go through the shadow broker/collectors hands which means if Shepard has been dead for 2 years there is still a lot you don't know. Preparation against the reapers includes taking out the collectors and your crew can't be any more diverse, they already touch each species personally bar vorcha and batarians. 

Ummm.. you are aware this is a fictional setting aren't you? Loose ends are as small or large as th writers want.

Keep in mind this is the region that Shepard was expressly forbidden from entering on the basis that doing so could start another war.

Not only was there absolutely no indication of any such risks in ME2, if Shepard is reinstated as a spectre, Shep is inexplicably ordered to go into said region and stay there. Or at least not to wave the Spectre status around anywhere other than there.

As for the collectors, your arguement against my plot alternative seems to be that it would disagree with ME2's plot. But again... fictional universe. The collectors didn't have to be 'involved with so many species' How are they so involved anyway? They appearantly only show up once in a blue moon, noone ever has direct contact with them, and noone in the region seemed to care about large populations in the region being kidnapped en masse.

A much better plot would have had them 'involved' in the background. Aria finding out that Patriarch has been getting outside support for a coup, mercenary bands being funded/hired to distract from collector activity. Pirates realizing they have competiion, but no clue who.

Tie ins to the existing cast of characters should have been easy. They are all good characters. It is not that hard to tie them into a central plot, even if indirectly by their backgrounds.

At any rate 'taking out the collectors' was a new plot added in ME2. It isn't a carry over from ME1. There was no hint that the collectors and reapers were linked in ME1. The writers probably thought linking them was some sort of clever plot twist....

[Nightwriter]

Actually, the idea of having a bunch of squadmates and having backups for each squadmate is valid.

It's the way you prepare for any mission, or hell, every semi-serious camping trip: bring something for every occasion and have two of everything.

The problem is, this makes squadmates feel like items, which is very bad. Worse, it cheapens each item. I don't like character objectification in the best of times, but in a character-focused story it's even worse.

Modifié par Nightwriter, 16 janvier 2011 - 12:24 .

[Moiaussi]

Nightwriter wrote...

Actually, the idea of having a bunch of squadmates and having backups for each squadmate is valid.

It's the way you prepare for any mission, or hell, every semi-serious camping trip: bring something for every occasion and have two of everything.

The problem is, this makes squadmates feel like items, which is very bad. Worse, it cheapens each item. I don't like character objectification in the best of times, but in a character-focused story it's even worse.

That would be fine... if they were presented that way, or if there was any indication of structure at all.

It also doesn't justify noone's skills really being needed other than a biotic.

[Nightwriter]

You can't really make claims about what skills are or aren't needed beforehand, and you recruit your characters beforehand. But in any case that's not my problem, my problem is I want my characters to be relevant to the story by more than skill.

[JuicElawl]

Marta Rio wrote...

Element Engine wrote...

I really liked the concept of ME2 being the Dirty Dozen/Seven Samurai/Ocean's 11 type thing where you're building this great team for the grand finale but it could've been executed a little better. Like other people have said, some character's felt detached and unimportant to the story. The whole idea and the character's themselves should've been showcased with more importance. That's my biggest critique.

Regardless it's still an amazing game and I can't wait for ME3.

I haven't seen the Dirty Dozen or the Seven Samurai (I know, I know, I should be ashamed of myself).  But Ocean's 11 I have seen.  And one thing I thought was good about that plot (at least in the new version) was they explained why they needed to recruit each person.  And then they showed each person doing the job that they were recruited for.

I thought that Bioware could have made the team building aspect of the plot more effective if they had shown why each individual was vital to the mission.  That would have also meant there were definite consequences to not recruiting a team-member, and not a case of "Turned Legion over to Cerberus? It's ok just use Tali instead.  Or Kasumi, if you prefer."

if you've seen the magnificent seven, it's basically the cowboy version of the seven samurai. they're both  badass  movies.

i liked ME2's format, tbh. i like how you could delve into each character's story and life.

it would be nice if the characters interacted more with themselves other than shepard, though.

Modifié par JuicElawl, 16 janvier 2011 - 01:15 .

[Il Divo]

Nightwriter wrote...

You can't really make claims about what skills are or aren't needed beforehand, and you recruit your characters beforehand. But in any case that's not my problem, my problem is I want my characters to be relevant to the story by more than skill.

The problem we do reach with a "Dirty Dozen" style plot is that ultimately what Shepard is looking for puts us into a contradiction of sorts. He's not looking for people personally vested, but highly dangerous professionals. Now, I agree with you that it's awesome when every character is relevant to the plot (Wrex on Virmire, Tali on the Citadel) but in a sense, that's still somewhat contradictory to the purpose of the character.

Imagine for example if Tali was not a Quarian expert but just some run of the mill person with no combat/tech abilities who by stroke of luck acquired evidence on Saren and wanted to join up with you. She has her connection, but she's in effect 'useless'. Although personal motivation is nice, it's usually not the basis under which I would recruit someone for a high stakes mission. From a logistical perspective, skill trumps personal connection every time.

Modifié par Il Divo, 16 janvier 2011 - 03:36 .

[AdmiralCheez]

OP: I treated ME2's plot like a television series: small, well-contained episodes that focus on one character or plot element at a time. It did this very well. The overall plot, though, was a bit too standard and videogamey. Then again, so was ME1's (lol, rogue spies and ancient gods of destruction). It was ME1's universe that made it engaging and memorable.



In ME2, since the universe was already familiar, interest was shifted to the people in it. And yes, the game was about the squad more than anything else: gameplay focused on recruiting, commanding, and managing your squad. The story was split into little subplots centered around each of your teammates. The entire package was set up to get you to get to know and care about them, and then ultimately see to it that they were a strong enough team, and you were a strong enough commander, to make it through Omega 4 with a full compliment.



My only problem with this approach is that each character was too isolated. If there was a little more of the Miranda/Jack-type dynamic going on throughout the squad (think elevator conversations and little snippets of extra dialogue and two-second cutscenes here and there, plus a little Dragon Age random banter). What they had was good (remember those talks on the elevators, Tali?), but there was far too little of it. I guess it makes sense in context, since they were individual specialists hired for one mission, but in ME3 I want to see them act more like a team.

[Iakus]

Il Divo wrote...
The problem we do reach with a "Dirty Dozen" style plot is that ultimately what Shepard is looking for puts us into a contradiction of sorts. He's not looking for people personally vested, but highly dangerous professionals. Now, I agree with you that it's awesome when every character is relevant to the plot (Wrex on Virmire, Tali on the Citadel) but in a sense, that's still somewhat contradictory to the purpose of the character.

Imagine for example if Tali was not a Quarian expert but just some run of the mill person with no combat/tech abilities who by stroke of luck acquired evidence on Saren and wanted to join up with you. She has her connection, but she's in effect 'useless'. Although personal motivation is nice, it's usually not the basis under which I would recruit someone for a high stakes mission. From a logistical perspective, skill trumps personal connection every time.

Shepard isn't looking for people personally connected to the mission, but what would have greatly helped the story would be if the characters became invested over time.  Over the course of the game, tehy learn what the stakes are and become willing to help Shepard not just because Shep did them a favor, but because they gain a personal motivation as well.  That motivation could vary based on teh characters' personality:  personal survival, a sense of justice, racial pride, friendship among the crew, vengence, or whatnot.  Such a thing would have gone a long way towards repairing the feeling of disconnectedness among the game.  Make it feel more like one game rather than demos for a dozen or so games.

[Iakus]

Nightwriter wrote...

Actually, the idea of having a bunch of squadmates and having backups for each squadmate is valid.

It's the way you prepare for any mission, or hell, every semi-serious camping trip: bring something for every occasion and have two of everything.

The problem is, this makes squadmates feel like items, which is very bad. Worse, it cheapens each item. I don't like character objectification in the best of times, but in a character-focused story it's even worse.

Yeah, in the actual Dirty Dozen movie, all the members of the team had their roles to play intheir Suicide Mission.  It's highlighted by a rhyme they recited marking each person's job and the order in which they had to be done.  Same with Ocean's 11, and other ensemble stories.  If a character is introduced, its for a reason, and that reason is not simply to be an extra warm body when it comes time to Hold the Line.