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"The characters WERE the story."


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#201
Bourne Endeavor

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RiouHotaru wrote...

In ME2:

Story opens with Shepard's death, which IMO is a fantastic way to get things going.  I disregard the "but the resurrection makes no sense!" arguments because it doesn't break my personal suspension of disbelief.  Just because it breaks yours doesn't make it a plothole


Except that it is a plothole due to it being completely and fundamentally impossible for Shepard to have survived. There are only two plausible hypotheses to contradict this. We have either the Mako theory offered by Zulu or another theory where she drifts throughout space and does not actually enter the planet’s atmosphere. In any other circumstances there would not be a body, she would be slush on a planet due to crashing into it at thousands of miles per hour or simply reduced to ash. You cannot reconstruct a person’s brain even by Mass Effect lore if there is not a brain reconstruct.

Now because Bioware chose not to provide explanation in canon form; it is inconsistent with the narrative, illogical and therefore a plothole. Should ME3 reveal Shepard is actually a clone or AI who was merely based upon what was known of the original Shepard. That would be an explanation and no longer be a plothole... but only in ME3. In ME2, it would simply be poor writing.


I guess, when it comes down to it, your like/dislike of the plot is a case of YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary), but I wish people would stop saying "The story/plot of ME2 is weak" as though it were a statement of fact.

Because it's not.  That's your opinion.


Largely, it is fact. The main plot did not develop the overarching Reaper saga. We have learned and discovered essentially nothing. The few exceptions such as Prothens being mutated into Collectors is made completely irrelevant in mere moments. When we conclude ME2, we are left in precisely the same position we originally were in after finishing the predecessor. The Reapers are still coming, nobody believes Shepard, we still have yet to discover a means to prevent the impending doom and Shepard must find a way. I have already spent two thousands explaining why the characters have virtually no relevance to the main plot, thus I need not reiterate.

Further examples of plotholes would be not sending probes into the Omega 4 Relay to investigate. Lair of the Shadow Broker hilariously mocks the ME2 plot by admitting the Shadow Broker did this himself and the probes returned. So either Cerberus is incompetent or it is a plothole. What about the derelict Reaper; we finally have evidence of their existence and nobody considers informing the Council? And perhaps the most blatant; when the entire crew goes onto a shuttle for no adequately explained reason, just so the game can mosey on along with the crew abduction angle.

How is this not an example of poor writing and thus a weak main story? There are numerous others and they have been addressed in this topic, many by myself.

Frankly, those who defend ME2 have a misconception. ME’s plot was not the holy grail of great story telling. It had some obvious plotholes, such as Shepard's facepalm worthy performance in any political engagement and utter lack of providing evidence, and there certainly are others. In addition, none of dislike ME2; quite the contrary in fact; we simply view it as wasted potential. Lobbying attacks against Mass Effect only displays that the series as a whole may be somewhat overrated.

Nightwriter, myself and many others have already mentioned by the squad in ME2 held no importance to the main plot and were merely cannon fodder. The sole exception being Mordin. This was not the case in ME, where each had a role to some extent, albeit some less than others.

Modifié par Bourne Endeavor, 09 janvier 2011 - 09:09 .


#202
cachx

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Nightwriter wrote...
Inspired by Casey Hudson’s statement that people who speak of ME2’s lack of story do not understand that the characters are the story. I think this deserves some thought and respect. Actual quote I paraphrased is here.
To fans, I ask:
Did you feel that the characters constituted the story, like Casey says, or did the characters feel separate from the story? If they did feel separate to you, why did they feel separate? Why didn't you experience the story-character fusion Casey describes? Were the characters enough to carry the game to your satisfaction?
ME2 gets a lot of criticism for lack of story. If Casey's suggestion is right (and I think it at least deserves consideration), and the characters are the story, a lot of that criticism becomes unfair. So... is it unfair?

Yep, to me the game was a character piece, where we explore their background, their motivations and so on. And through them we also learn different aspects of galactic culture and story that wasn't really touched upon in ME1 (Life on the Terminus, The Krogans and the Genophage, The Migrant Fleet, Cerberus...).
The thing is that the relation is always ShepardxCharacter and it has always been like that, ME1 probably had more inter-party dialogue, but they never behaved like a team, either. I can't imagine Wrex sending christmas cards to the rest of the team.
ME2 still has inter-party stuff, but aside the Normandy fights, it's really little pieces of dialogue sprinkled here and there and is hard to get them by playing naturally (maybe the wiki has a list on that stuff somewhere). It is in there, but it's probably too little to please the "true fans".

Bioware: LOOK AT OUR AWARDS!!!
Fan: ../../../images/forum/emoticons/angry.png

Bioware: What? a lot of them were fan-voted awards.
Fan: Oh right. Sorry. Sometimes I'm a flaming moron.

Oh, also I don't really get why ME2 gets punished for being standalone, ME1 was pretty self-contained as well, to the point that the "planned as trilogy" thing sounds like a lie. The baddies are dead, the other baddies are forever "trapped in darkspace" and there are no real plot threads hanging.
Edit: Fixing formatting/spelling mistakes.

Modifié par cachx, 09 janvier 2011 - 09:11 .


#203
slimgrin

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With such an emphasis on introducing and developing characters, it was inevitable that the end in ME2 would be a letdown for me. They just didn't leave room to develop the main plot. And the fact it may end spectacularly in ME3 only reaffirms the sequel-itus issue. Fewer squadmates and more time with the story arc would have been my approach.

Modifié par slimgrin, 09 janvier 2011 - 09:13 .


#204
Aeowyn

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cachx wrote...
 The baddies are dead, the other baddies are forever "trapped in darkspace" and there are no real plot threads hanging..


Except that the last line Shepard says in ME1 is "Sovereign wasn't alone. The Reapers are coming, and I'm going to find a way to stop them." cue Udina/Anderson giving a speech on how they must work together to stop the Reapers.

#205
Nightwriter

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FeelTheMighty wrote...

It's not really "attacking". It's more like pointing out that both games had really similar flaws when it came to the story, and it's unfair to call out one game for this, while ignoring the other.

Oh, both sides do an unnecessary bit of attacking, no question of it. Both games do have faults, there's no argument there. ME2 suffers from being the most recent game, however, so its faults are present while ME1's are past, and in general people are naturally inclined to juxtapose the two games, which causes critical comparison.

#206
FeelTheMighty

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I'm still a little confused at how people view the stories as all that different.



ME1 is "plot driven" but the main story quests don't seem to be any more indepth than the ones in ME2. Neither game is so complicated that they have tons of things going on at once. Both are pretty straight forward when it came to the plot.

#207
Bourne Endeavor

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cachx wrote...

Bioware: LOOK AT OUR AWARDS!!!
Fan: ../../../images/forum/emoticons/angry.png

Bioware: What? a lot of them were fan-voted awards.
Fan: Oh right. Sorry. Sometimes I'm a flaming moron.

Oh, also I don't really get why ME2 gets punished for being standalone, ME1 was pretty self-contained as well, to the point that the "planned as trilogy" thing sounds like a lie. The baddies are dead, the other baddies are forever "trapped in darkspace" and there are no real plot threads hanging.
Edit: Fixing formatting/spelling mistakes.


Question. Does the "Best Story of the Year" award differentiate between the main plot or the over-glorified side missions? No. Then whose to say who was voting for what? Of the games nominated. I would have voted for ME2 myself and probably have. The episodic missions were thoroughly entertaining. The main plot is where my qualms lie and even than it is from more a wasted potential perspective.

For Mass Effect being mostly standalone. It was, and this due to it being the initiate title of the trilogy. A sequel is suppose to develop the plot, which does not happen. Furthermore, while the majority of ME's plot concluded. I would imagine the glaring inevitability of the Reaper invasion is a pretty compelling thread left hanging. Too bad it was hardly mentioned despite to repeat "the Reapers are coming."

Modifié par Bourne Endeavor, 09 janvier 2011 - 09:22 .


#208
Bamboozalist

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Bourne Endeavor wrote...
 the other baddies are forever "trapped in darkspace" and there are no real plot threads hanging."


Really? That's why ME1 ends with Anderson/Udina and Shepard promising to fight the Reapers back when they come? Yeah that sounds like they're forever trapped in Darkspace. I mean hell the line "The Reapers are coming" directly contradicts that.

#209
masterp1975

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Moiaussi wrote...

masterp1975 wrote...

The majority of the posts seem to be - "I'm smarter than the writers and they suck."  It makes me chuckle.


If the writer is the better judge of their writing than those reading it or those paying for the right to read it, I want the royalty cheques I feel I should be getting based on my perception of the quality of anything I have written.

including this post.

Pay up, buddy. I know my writing warrants it so your opinion is irrelevant. Pay up.

It isn't that any of us think we are smarter than the writers. It is that we are not impressed by ME2's writing. You imply that we should be told how much we like or dislike it rather than actually have opinions on our own feelings.



You win!  That line made complete sense to me, and I now understand... I think.  It was just kind of a shock coming back to these forums after 6 months.  Then it was seemingly a love fest, and comparitively it's a hatefest now.  I think I'm suffering the side effects of a sort of culture shock.  You're point does make sense, looking at something from another point of view with an open mind can be valuable - if you're willing to do it. 

I never meant to imply that you should or shouldn't do anything.  It just doesn't make sense to me to give attention to something that's deemed not worthy.

Regarding payment... Yeah - what's the phrase?  "You can't get blood from a stone." 

#210
Nightwriter

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masterp1975 wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...

masterp1975 wrote...

I enjoy reading all the amature writing critics on these social forums.

"Everything sucks and is mediocre at best, but it's good enough for me to keep criticizing it and buying related products to criticize some more."

You're posting on a forum. Get over yourself.


We're having a discussion. This is what forums are for. If you don't want to read stuff where people discuss the plot, the squad, the gameplay then why the hell are you hanging around on a forum?


It amuses me, greatly.  I love the game, love the story, love the characters... mostly.  Sure, I'll admit there's some issues with the story, but if I were a better writer/game developer I wouldn't be posting on a forum - I'd be one of the people getting paid to write/develop.

I came back to these forums after a recent play through because my interest was rekindled.  I was hoping to find some ideas on potential game plots and look for things I may have missed on my playthroughs.  Occasionally I find a recent topic discussing the things you mention and not bashing.  It seems very rare.  The majority of the posts seem to be - "I'm smarter than the writers and they suck."  It makes me chuckle.

Come on, mas. We'd all like you to stop belitting the discussion and contribute to it.

Well actually, not all of us might, I may be overstepping my bounds here. I can only speak for myself.

Your assumption that everyone who disagrees with the writing decisions that were made is an idiot with a keyboard is as woefully mistaken as your belief that we are all unqualified to say whether or not we enjoyed our game. Petty criticisms are bad, I agree, but there are few to be found here, and your condescensions are worth even less. Is there a constructive opinion underneath that patronization, and can I meet him? I like talking to folks.

#211
Pwner1323

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What I would like is for masterp1975 to go away. He doesn't know what he's talking about and is just insulting us and the Forum. If you really care about ME, don't insult your fellow fans.

Modifié par Pwner1323, 09 janvier 2011 - 09:30 .


#212
cachx

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Aeowyn wrote...

cachx wrote...
 The baddies are dead, the other baddies are forever "trapped in darkspace" and there are no real plot threads hanging..

Except that the last line Shepard says in ME1 is "Sovereign wasn't alone. The Reapers are coming, and I'm going to find a way to stop them." cue Udina/Anderson giving a speech on how they must work together to stop the Reapers.

Read again.
After listening to Vigil there is no real reason nor a hint for Shep to believe that "they're coming anyway". Maybe the council is right, and Shepard is just a lunatic :D. Hell he could have said any number of things with the same amount of information.
Shep: "Sovereign loved frozen yoghurt, and I'm going to find a way to destroy it". * walks away with that funny stroll he does.
*cue Anderson/Udina giving a speech about lactose intolerance.

This ties into one of the Fridge Moments for the whole ME universe. If the Reapers can just travel here normally, why not just do it?

#213
FeelTheMighty

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Bourne Endeavor wrote...
For Mass Effect being mostly standalone. It was, and this due to it being the initiate title of the trilogy. A sequel is suppose to develop the plot, which does not happen. Furthermore, while the majority of ME's plot concluded. I would imagine the glaring inevitability of the Reaper invasion is a pretty compelling thread left hanging. Too bad it was hardly mentioned despite to repeat "the Reapers are coming."


Or expand upon the universe. Which definitely does happen, since we go to previously unexplored locations, and see first hand what the Codex in ME1 was talking about. Things like Quarian/Krogan politics, Quarian/Geth relations ,the Shadow Broker, etc...

And technically, the plot is advanced. As mentioned before, the people that Shepard gets involved with are part of massive organizations that will no doubt have huge roles in ME3...there's also the whole thing with humanity having caught the eye of the Reapers.

#214
The Smoking Man

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masterp1975 wrote...

I never meant to imply that you should or shouldn't do anything.  It just doesn't make sense to me to give attention to something that's deemed not worthy.

While you simultaneously give attention to people's complaints/arguments that you deem to be not worthy (of more than a chuckle).

#215
Pwner1323

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cachx wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...

cachx wrote...
 The baddies are dead, the other baddies are forever "trapped in darkspace" and there are no real plot threads hanging..

Except that the last line Shepard says in ME1 is "Sovereign wasn't alone. The Reapers are coming, and I'm going to find a way to stop them." cue Udina/Anderson giving a speech on how they must work together to stop the Reapers.

Read again.
After listening to Vigil there is no real reason nor a hint for Shep to believe that "they're coming anyway". Maybe the council is right, and Shepard is just a lunatic :D. Hell he could have said any number of things with the same amount of information.
Shep: "Sovereign loved frozen yoghurt, and I'm going to find a way to destroy it". * walks away with that funny stroll he does.
*cue Anderson/Udina giving a speech about lactose intolerance.

This ties into one of the Fridge Moments for the whole ME universe. If the Reapers can just travel here normally, why not just do it?


So the reaper fleet at the end of ME2 wasn't real? And waht about the war in London in the VGA trailer? I think we covered this already.

#216
Nightwriter

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cachx wrote...

Oh, also I don't really get why ME2 gets punished for being standalone, ME1 was pretty self-contained as well, to the point that the "planned as trilogy" thing sounds like a lie. The baddies are dead, the other baddies are forever "trapped in darkspace" and there are no real plot threads hanging.

This is what I find hi-larious.

It is supposed to be standalone, yet it needs ME3 to validate its relevance. People complain that it is too standalone, yet complain that it is not standalone enough to explain to us what its worth was. People defend ME2 by saying its story was meant to be standalone, disconnected - then say wait, don't judge an unfinished product, its relevance is connected to ME3.

#217
Guest_iOnlySignIn_*

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Every fiction has to choose: either the characters serve the plot, or the plot serves the characters. There is no middle road.

Traditionally, the plot serves the characters. The earliest human literature are sagas along the lines of Homer's Epics. These are stories of divine heroes, the events around whom only serve to enhance their greatness. Consider Shakepeare as another example. The greatest works of the Bard are known for their vivid and emotionally powerful characters, while the plotlines are drawn from familiar history & previous literary works.

The focus on "plot" instead of "characters" is a very recent development. One of its necessary backdrops is the concept that all men are equal, and there is no small minority whose existence is destined to be more meaningful than the others. The characters therefore tends to be more generic and commonplace, and more focus is given to the plot, or story, in the hope that the audience will have a better sense of personal participation.

Science Fiction, being a quite recent form of fiction itself, has traditionally put more emphasis on plot than character, because the Sci-Fi element is very often used to demonstrate some kind of social, political, or philosophical ideal of the writer. The Sci-Fi is the canvas, the colors are the characters, but the structure and content of the picture is the plot. Every Sci-Fi universe is a reflection of our own through the mirror of the author's mind.

Popular culture is an electic mix of these two traditions. While Sci-Fi is still a powerful force, it is by no means the only one. And even Sci-Fi can mix well with character-focus A few of the most successful & popular fictional works of recent times from each tradition are:

Plot-Focus: Star Trek, Dune, Lord of the Rings

Character Focus: Star Wars, Harry Potter, Marvel/DC Comics

Mass Effect 1 focuses on plot while Mass Effect 2 focus on character.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 09 janvier 2011 - 09:37 .


#218
Pwner1323

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Nightwriter wrote...

cachx wrote...

Oh, also I don't really get why ME2 gets punished for being standalone, ME1 was pretty self-contained as well, to the point that the "planned as trilogy" thing sounds like a lie. The baddies are dead, the other baddies are forever "trapped in darkspace" and there are no real plot threads hanging.

This is what I find hi-larious.

It is supposed to be standalone, yet it needs ME3 to validate its relevance. People complain that it is too standalone, yet complain that it is not standalone enough to explain to us what its worth was. People defend ME2 by saying its story was meant to be standalone, disconnected - then say wait, don't judge an unfinished product, its relevance is connected to ME3.


It's funny, because it's true!

Modifié par Pwner1323, 09 janvier 2011 - 09:39 .


#219
Bamboozalist

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cachx wrote...

This ties ito one of the Fridge Moments for the whole ME universe. If the Reapers can just travel here normally, why not just do it?


Because the Citadel sneak attack is their entire plan and the only reason they've been doing this for so long. It basically allows them to instantly win. If I was an immortal race of machines I'd wait a couple thousand extra years to instantly win.

Also there is no such thing as "trapped in dark space". Even if they had "fuel" constraints the Reapers could fire up their engines to max speed, shut them off and glide on their momentum since Space, especially Intergalactic Space which doesn't have an Interstellar Medium to deal with only that pesky IGM, has no friction to slow them. There is literally NOTHING preventing them from simply flying back, unless there is some magical force field we're never told about.

#220
Nightwriter

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iOnlySignIn wrote...

Plot-Focus: Star Trek, Dune, Lord of the Rings

Character Focus: Star Wars, Harry Potter, Marvel/DC Comics

Mass Effect 1 focuses on plot while Mass Effect 2 focus on character.

The character focused examples you give are valid because all of the characters in those stories become rigorously involved in the plot. They experience it, react to it, become emotionally invested in it, throw their whole lives into it, become practically one with the plot itself.

ME2 does not do this. The characters do not particularly react to the plot. They are kept separate from it. They do not become involved.

#221
Pwner1323

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Bamboozalist wrote...

cachx wrote...

This ties ito one of the Fridge Moments for the whole ME universe. If the Reapers can just travel here normally, why not just do it?


Because the Citadel sneak attack is their entire plan and the only reason they've been doing this for so long. It basically allows them to instantly win. If I was an immortal race of machines I'd wait a couple thousand extra years to instantly win.

Also there is no such thing as "trapped in dark space". Even if they had "fuel" constraints the Reapers could fire up their engines to max speed, shut them off and glide on their momentum since Space, especially Intergalactic Space which doesn't have an Interstellar Medium to deal with only that pesky IGM, has no friction to slow them. There is literally NOTHING preventing them from simply flying back, unless there is some magical force field we're never told about.


Unless one of them pulls a dick move and crashes with another causing a domino effect foiling the Reaper's master plan.

#222
FeelTheMighty

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Nightwriter wrote...

cachx wrote...

Oh, also I don't really get why ME2 gets punished for being standalone, ME1 was pretty self-contained as well, to the point that the "planned as trilogy" thing sounds like a lie. The baddies are dead, the other baddies are forever "trapped in darkspace" and there are no real plot threads hanging.

This is what I find hi-larious.

It is supposed to be standalone, yet it needs ME3 to validate its relevance. People complain that it is too standalone, yet complain that it is not standalone enough to explain to us what its worth was. People defend ME2 by saying its story was meant to be standalone, disconnected - then say wait, don't judge an unfinished product, its relevance is connected to ME3.


I defend it by saying neither game has particularly strong plots, or antagonists, and that the best things about the games is really the lore, the characters and exploration of a Universe...lol.

#223
Aeowyn

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Pwner1323 wrote...

Bamboozalist wrote...

cachx wrote...

This ties ito one of the Fridge Moments for the whole ME universe. If the Reapers can just travel here normally, why not just do it?


Because the Citadel sneak attack is their entire plan and the only reason they've been doing this for so long. It basically allows them to instantly win. If I was an immortal race of machines I'd wait a couple thousand extra years to instantly win.

Also there is no such thing as "trapped in dark space". Even if they had "fuel" constraints the Reapers could fire up their engines to max speed, shut them off and glide on their momentum since Space, especially Intergalactic Space which doesn't have an Interstellar Medium to deal with only that pesky IGM, has no friction to slow them. There is literally NOTHING preventing them from simply flying back, unless there is some magical force field we're never told about.


Unless one of them pulls a dick move and crashes with another causing a domino effect foiling the Reaper's master plan.


Ok 1. Pwner that made me lol. Especially imagining Harbinger and co. "Assuming direct contro...oh shi-"

2. How would Vigil know anything about if the Reapers would be stopped or not?

#224
Pwner1323

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Nightwriter wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Plot-Focus: Star Trek, Dune, Lord of the Rings

Character Focus: Star Wars, Harry Potter, Marvel/DC Comics

Mass Effect 1 focuses on plot while Mass Effect 2 focus on character.

The character focused examples you give are valid because all of the characters in those stories become rigorously involved in the plot. They experience it, react to it, become emotionally invested in it, throw their whole lives into it, become practically one with the plot itself.

ME2 does not do this. The characters do not particularly react to the plot. They are kept separate from it. They do not become involved.


At this point you're all repeating everything that's been said pages ago. Anything new going on?

#225
RiouHotaru

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[quote]Bourne Endeavor wrote...
Except that it is a plothole due to it being completely and fundamentally impossible for Shepard to have survived. There are only two plausible hypotheses to contradict this. We have either the Mako theory offered by Zulu or another theory where she drifts throughout space and does not actually enter the planet’s atmosphere. In any other circumstances there would not be a body, she would be slush on a planet due to crashing into it at thousands of miles per hour or simply reduced to ash. You cannot reconstruct a person’s brain even by Mass Effect lore if there is not a brain reconstruct.

Now because Bioware chose not to provide explanation in canon form; it is inconsistent with the narrative, illogical and therefore a plothole. Should ME3 reveal Shepard is actually a clone or AI who was merely based upon what was known of the original Shepard. That would be an explanation and no longer be a plothole... but only in ME3. In ME2, it would simply be poor writing.[/quote]

Several parts of ME2 come right out and say that Shepard was basically slush.  Redemption says there's not enough left to tell if Shepard is a man or a woman (a clever way to avoid giving gender!) So I don't consider it poor writing at all.  It took 2 years, the best manpower and technology money can buy, and 4 BILLION credits.  Even Wilson admits that it's a miracle of medical science they were even able to do it at all.  It's also implied there were several close calls during the process.


[/quote]
Largely, it is fact. The main plot did not develop the overarching Reaper saga. We have learned and discovered essentially nothing. The few exceptions such as Prothens being mutated into Collectors is made completely irrelevant in mere moments. When we conclude ME2, we are left in precisely the same position we originally were in after finishing the predecessor. The Reapers are still coming, nobody believes Shepard, we still have yet to discover a means to prevent the impending doom and Shepard must find a way. I have already spent two thousands explaining why the characters have virtually no relevance to the main plot, thus I need not reiterate.

Further examples of plotholes would be not sending probes into the Omega 4 Relay to investigate. Lair of the Shadow Broker hilariously mocks the ME2 plot by admitting the Shadow Broker did this himself and the probes returned. So either Cerberus is incompetent or it is a plothole. What about the derelict Reaper; we finally have evidence of their existence and nobody considers informing the Council? And perhaps the most blatant; when the entire crew goes onto a shuttle for no adequately explained reason, just so the game can mosey on along with the crew abduction angle.

How is this not an example of poor writing and thus a weak main story? There are numerous others and they have been addressed in this topic, many by myself.

Frankly, those who defend ME2 have a misconception. ME’s plot was not the holy grail of great story telling. It had some obvious plotholes, such as Shepard's facepalm worthy performance in any political engagement and utter lack of providing evidence, and there certainly are others. In addition, none of dislike ME2; quite the contrary in fact; we simply view it as wasted potential. Lobbying attacks against Mass Effect only displays that the series as a whole may be somewhat overrated.

Nightwriter, myself and many others have already mentioned by the squad in ME2 held no importance to the main plot and were merely cannon fodder. The sole exception being Mordin. This was not the case in ME, where each had a role to some extent, albeit some less than others. [/quote]

ME2 didn't NEED to expand on the Reaper plot, besides the fact they they're obviously coming or planning something.  Shepard is looking for a means to stop them when the Collectors come along and go "Not so fast, Bucko!" and kill you.  TIM reveals that there's something going on that he strongly believes is connected to the Reapers and wants you to investigate.  Yes, the Collectors being Protheans is sort of ignored after it's discovered, but really, it changes nothing, nor negates anything you learned.  The Protheans were still wiped out by the Reapers, they no longer exist as themselves.

In fact, the mere fact that the Collectors are Protheans repurposed DOES contribute to the plot.  At first, we just assume the Reapers warp into the galaxy via the Citadel, wipe out all organic civilization down to the last man, then warp back out and wait for it to happen again.  Simple, yes?  No, now we know they have possible ulterior motives for trying to wipe everyone out.  Apparently they're making more of themselves!  Why?  For what reason?  Well, those are questions set up for ME3.  Sure, we're no closer to stopping the Reapers than before, but we do have some insight, even if it raises more questions than answers.

As for LOTSB and the Omega 4 probes, I need to point this out since everyone keeps bringing it up.  Did anyone actually LISTEN to the dialog?  "The remains of the probes have been recovered."  REMAINS.  It means they were wrecked.  Destroyed.  Note that if you confront the broker prior to the Suicide Mission, he doesn't say anything about those probes, just that "The offer with the Collectors still stands."  Which means those probes didn't reveal anything!  Post-SM, he only knows about Shepard's success because he has cameras and listening devices on the Normandy.

As for the dead Reaper, does everyone forget that both the Alliance and Council don't care what Shepard finds?  You're with Cerberus, as long as you're with Cerberus, they can't trust you.  So yeah, you find evidence, shame no one will listen since you're working with terrorists.

The shuttle, I concede, is weak.  But given that the game's recruitment layout was MUCH more open-ended in development, likely they just didn't change the shuttle bit, which made more sense with the original design.  But again, doesn't break suspension of disbelief.  I concede that it's a necessary if poorly-planned plot device to make sure none of the squad get abducted.

Also, as for the comparison between the ME squad and ME2 squad.  No.  Blatantly untrue.  Not everyone in ME1 has some importance during one time or another.  Tali and Liara are technically the only ones who are absolutely necessary.  Tali provides the info that proves Saren's guilt, and Liara pieces together the vision.  Wrex, Garrus, and BOTH Ash/Kaidan don't do anything to advance the plot.  Technically you only need Ash OR Kaidan to sacrifice on Virmire, which makes the other person largely unecessary as well.  So out of six, only two people actually contribute.  Why does each squadmate in ME2 HAVE to contribute to the main story?  Technically their very existence at ALL contributes to the main story, by virute of the fact that you need the best soldiers, scientists, etc, to form a team that will cover basic fields of expertise.  TIM doesn't know what you'll face, so he wants you ready for anything.