273 réponses à ce sujet

[Zaquul]

As long as it's not multiplayer, with PvP, what does it matter if one class is overpowered? If you want a challenge play without a mage then, or don't take the skills you think are overpowered.

[Kiya_Elle]

Zaquul wrote...

As long as it's not multiplayer, with PvP, what does it matter if one class is overpowered? If you want a challenge play without a mage then, or don't take the skills you think are overpowered.

Exactly - some people enjoy being able to power through the game on nightmare mode, some like to deliberately be able to make things more difficult even though they are playing on easy mode.  For me it all adds to the replayability - so many different possible combinations of skills and talents to try.  I can see myself replaying this game to explore them all for a very long time.

[Wissenschaft]

Here I thought my duelist rogue was OP. Morrigan w/ walking nightmare or Leliana w/ scattershot locks then enemy down then my Duelist slaughters the enemy with endless backstabs. Got to love Momentum for speedy attacks and Duelist for accuracy.

[code2501]

Finished the story with my main as entropy/spirithealer mage, Morrigan elemental/spirithealer and Wynne as a creation/spirithealer and I disagree that they are too powerful.

That said, I never took arcane warrior on any mage, so maybe its just that specialisation that makes the game EZ-mode. I don't know how arcane warrior works, but heavy armor requires strength, and if your putting points into strength on a mage rather than magic your spells are gunna be pretty gimp...

[Samurai Pumpkin]

As others have stated, look at the lore.



There are only a handful of mages in the world and they are stuffed into a tower which is nearing it's capacity limit, ( per codex entries ) of space.... now compare that to the rest of Ferelden. There are a lot more warriors and rogues compared to mages no? Entire armies correct? Not only above ground but below in Orzammar.(sp?).

[Skemte]

Samurai Pumpkin wrote...

As others have stated, look at the lore.

There are only a handful of mages in the world and they are stuffed into a tower which is nearing it's capacity limit, ( per codex entries ) of space.... now compare that to the rest of Ferelden. There are a lot more warriors and rogues compared to mages no? Entire armies correct? Not only above ground but below in Orzammar.(sp?).

  That shouldn't mean anything.  The hero is no typical warrior or rogue.. That is the point.. That being said the only thing that irked me in the game was the clear advantage the mage character has in versatility for choosing abilities.. And group member choices.. While rogues and warriors are pigeon holed into the only 2 mages in the game if they wish to have a balanced team.

[Samurai Pumpkin]

Sounds like issue is against the lore then. If they were not as powerful as they were storywise there would be no need to cage them. No need to have the Chantry and their Templars watch over them.



You also need a balanced team in order to succeed. You need a little bit of everything. I wouldn't want to run the game with 4 mages.

[Skemte]

Samurai Pumpkin wrote...

Sounds like issue is against the lore then. If they were not as powerful as they were storywise there would be no need to cage them. No need to have the Chantry and their Templars watch over them.

You also need a balanced team in order to succeed. You need a little bit of everything. I wouldn't want to run the game with 4 mages.

... They are "caged" because they are the only ones that can be possessed from the Fade.. That is why they are looked after.. It has little to do with their power.. Any person with magical abilities no matter how slim can become a abomination..   They are not much different from psychics in the Warhammer 40k universe, they are definitely not neccesarily the most powerful, but they are hunted and controled due to being easilly corrupted..

[Skellimancer]

Samurai Pumpkin wrote...

As others have stated, look at the lore.

There are only a handful of mages in the world and they are stuffed into a tower which is nearing it's capacity limit, ( per codex entries ) of space.... now compare that to the rest of Ferelden. There are a lot more warriors and rogues compared to mages no? Entire armies correct? Not only above ground but below in Orzammar.(sp?).

Mages are not rare. Almost every enemy group has a mage.

Bioware screwed up giving Arcane warrior + uber buffs.

Can we expect the same level of balance in KotoR MMO?

[Shensi]

Skellimancer wrote...

Can we expect the same level of balance in KotoR MMO?

You honestly think they're going to give the same amount of thought to balancing for an MMO that they gave to a single player game?

Having overpowered and underpowered classes in DA does not matter. So long as it's possible to actually get through the game with them. Overpowered Mages makes sense story wise and I'm glad BioWare didn't puss out by making them subpar.

[Skellimancer]

Shensi wrote...

Skellimancer wrote...

Can we expect the same level of balance in KotoR MMO?

You honestly think they're going to give the same amount of thought to balancing for an MMO that they gave to a single player game?

Having overpowered and underpowered classes in DA does not matter. So long as it's possible to actually get through the game with them. Overpowered Mages makes sense story wise and I'm glad BioWare didn't puss out by making them subpar.

Well MMO's do have an habit of  making "so-called-squishy" classes almost invulnerable with abilities, just like this game. I am shocked how easy this game is with my mage. highest damage, best damage mitigation, heals on demand. The only thing my mage can't do is open locks and disable traps.

[Tensaiga]

My ONLY complaint about "class balance" in this game is how you are only given two mage party members. With a single player game, especially one that is party based where your party members function just as well as your main character and thus there is no reason to not use the overpowered class in question, you don't need to balance the classes much. Rogues and warriors work fine in this game, it isn't like they are gimped, so there is no problem. Still, it sort of pidgeonholes you into using either morrigan or wynne, and frequently both. It would be nice if there were a few more mage choices so you could get some variety, especially in subsequent playthroughs (Juwan would have been a PERFECT addition! Hell, you can even control him in two separate portions of the game!)

[Zenthar Aseth]

code2501 wrote...

Finished the story with my main as entropy/spirithealer mage, Morrigan elemental/spirithealer and Wynne as a creation/spirithealer and I disagree that they are too powerful.
That said, I never took arcane warrior on any mage, so maybe its just that specialisation that makes the game EZ-mode. I don't know how arcane warrior works, but heavy armor requires strength, and if your putting points into strength on a mage rather than magic your spells are gunna be pretty gimp...

Arcane Warriors use Magic instead of strength for damage and stuff. They don't need to (and shouldn't) put 1 point in strength

[lazorexplosion]

Warriors are underpowered? I don't think so, I've played with a mage and then a DW beserker warrior, and so far the warrior is easily just as good, he's a single target shredder and a good tank and even has a AOE damage from talents and bombs. In overall damage output my warrior is actually doing better. Sure I need a mage to support my warrior, but my mage needed a tank for support, too.



I have no idea if arcane warriors are overpowered,.but non AW mages and warriors seem well balanced to me.

[Loc'n'lol]

I get the feeling that part of the reason why rogues and warriors are... how to put it ? "not quite stellar", is they seem to have so little stamina when their talents cost so much. Okay so I got this nifty talents and all, and I can maybe use them once or twice in the fight and then it's over, default attack all the way till the end. No stamina potions to help with. Deep mushrooms are a joke. And since the stat requirements for equipment and talents are quite high, willpower is not an obvious choice (meanwhile, mages need not worry with anything but magic and willpower, really)

[Skellimancer]

_Loc_N_lol_ wrote...

I get the feeling that part of the reason why rogues and warriors are... how to put it ? "not quite stellar", is they seem to have so little stamina when their talents cost so much. Okay so I got this nifty talents and all, and I can maybe use them once or twice in the fight and then it's over, default attack all the way till the end. No stamina potions to help with. Deep mushrooms are a joke. And since the stat requirements for equipment and talents are quite high, willpower is not an obvious choice (meanwhile, mages need not worry with anything but magic and willpower, really)

The power of talents is an issue. Compare any 4th tier Warrior talent to any 4th(even 3rd) Mage Tier talent.

Look at 2handed talent critical strike.

IF it hits it does critical damage and has a small bonus to attack. Woah! how awesome.. much better than cone of cold...

[lazorexplosion]

Skellimancer wrote...

_Loc_N_lol_ wrote...

I get the feeling that part of the reason why rogues and warriors are... how to put it ? "not quite stellar", is they seem to have so little stamina when their talents cost so much. Okay so I got this nifty talents and all, and I can maybe use them once or twice in the fight and then it's over, default attack all the way till the end. No stamina potions to help with. Deep mushrooms are a joke. And since the stat requirements for equipment and talents are quite high, willpower is not an obvious choice (meanwhile, mages need not worry with anything but magic and willpower, really)

The power of talents is an issue. Compare any 4th tier Warrior talent to any 4th(even 3rd) Mage Tier talent.

Look at 2handed talent critical strike.

IF it hits it does critical damage and has a small bonus to attack. Woah! how awesome.. much better than cone of cold...

Not really. I mean, you can't just compare like that; mage spells are much stronger than warrior talents because normal warrior attacks are much stronger than normal mage attacks and because normal mages are squishier that warriors (Arcane warriors are a different kettle of fish, of course). If you think warrior talents should be as strong as mage spells on top of the fact that warriors dish out way more damage with normal attacks and have better survivability, then that's not at all balanced!

Warriors are great; I also would love it if their stamina lasted a bit longer, but the talents themselves are well balanced, and a good warrior can kick a ton of arse.

Modifié par lazorexplosion, 14 novembre 2009 - 01:49 .

[Skellimancer]

lazorexplosion wrote...

Skellimancer wrote...

_Loc_N_lol_ wrote...

I get the feeling that part of the reason why rogues and warriors are... how to put it ? "not quite stellar", is they seem to have so little stamina when their talents cost so much. Okay so I got this nifty talents and all, and I can maybe use them once or twice in the fight and then it's over, default attack all the way till the end. No stamina potions to help with. Deep mushrooms are a joke. And since the stat requirements for equipment and talents are quite high, willpower is not an obvious choice (meanwhile, mages need not worry with anything but magic and willpower, really)

The power of talents is an issue. Compare any 4th tier Warrior talent to any 4th(even 3rd) Mage Tier talent.

Look at 2handed talent critical strike.

IF it hits it does critical damage and has a small bonus to attack. Woah! how awesome.. much better than cone of cold...

Not really. I mean, you can't just compare like that; mage spells are much stronger than warrior talents because normal warrior attacks are much stronger than normal mage attacks and because normal mages are squishier that warriors (Arcane warriors are a different kettle of fish, of course). If you think warrior talents should be as strong as mage spells on top of the fact that warriors dish out way more damage with normal attacks and have better survivability, then that's not at all balanced!

Warriors are great; I also would love it if their stamina lasted a bit longer, but the talents themselves are well balanced, and a good warrior can kick a ton of arse.

As powerful? no.

But they could have been more fun/useful.

How about Critical Strike inflicting a one hit kill animation on any none boss mobs (100% hit) just like in the sacred ashes trailer? on bosses it could just inflict high damage with a knockdown.

The 2handed talents are so underwhelming.

[lazorexplosion]

Skellimancer wrote...

lazorexplosion wrote...

Skellimancer wrote...

_Loc_N_lol_ wrote...

I get the feeling that part of the reason why rogues and warriors are... how to put it ? "not quite stellar", is they seem to have so little stamina when their talents cost so much. Okay so I got this nifty talents and all, and I can maybe use them once or twice in the fight and then it's over, default attack all the way till the end. No stamina potions to help with. Deep mushrooms are a joke. And since the stat requirements for equipment and talents are quite high, willpower is not an obvious choice (meanwhile, mages need not worry with anything but magic and willpower, really)

The power of talents is an issue. Compare any 4th tier Warrior talent to any 4th(even 3rd) Mage Tier talent.

Look at 2handed talent critical strike.

IF it hits it does critical damage and has a small bonus to attack. Woah! how awesome.. much better than cone of cold...

Not really. I mean, you can't just compare like that; mage spells are much stronger than warrior talents because normal warrior attacks are much stronger than normal mage attacks and because normal mages are squishier that warriors (Arcane warriors are a different kettle of fish, of course). If you think warrior talents should be as strong as mage spells on top of the fact that warriors dish out way more damage with normal attacks and have better survivability, then that's not at all balanced!

Warriors are great; I also would love it if their stamina lasted a bit longer, but the talents themselves are well balanced, and a good warrior can kick a ton of arse.

As powerful? no.

But they could have been more fun/useful.

How about Critical Strike inflicting a one hit kill animation on any none boss mobs (100% hit) just like in the sacred ashes trailer? on bosses it could just inflict high damage with a knockdown.

The 2handed talents are so underwhelming.

2hander talents are good in my opinion, two handed sweep is great, and you get free stuns, knockdown + stun immunity, armor reduction to help you and other fighters. Not bad.

[Skellimancer]

lazorexplosion wrote...

Skellimancer wrote...

lazorexplosion wrote...

Skellimancer wrote...

_Loc_N_lol_ wrote...

I get the feeling that part of the reason why rogues and warriors are... how to put it ? "not quite stellar", is they seem to have so little stamina when their talents cost so much. Okay so I got this nifty talents and all, and I can maybe use them once or twice in the fight and then it's over, default attack all the way till the end. No stamina potions to help with. Deep mushrooms are a joke. And since the stat requirements for equipment and talents are quite high, willpower is not an obvious choice (meanwhile, mages need not worry with anything but magic and willpower, really)

The power of talents is an issue. Compare any 4th tier Warrior talent to any 4th(even 3rd) Mage Tier talent.

Look at 2handed talent critical strike.

IF it hits it does critical damage and has a small bonus to attack. Woah! how awesome.. much better than cone of cold...

Not really. I mean, you can't just compare like that; mage spells are much stronger than warrior talents because normal warrior attacks are much stronger than normal mage attacks and because normal mages are squishier that warriors (Arcane warriors are a different kettle of fish, of course). If you think warrior talents should be as strong as mage spells on top of the fact that warriors dish out way more damage with normal attacks and have better survivability, then that's not at all balanced!

Warriors are great; I also would love it if their stamina lasted a bit longer, but the talents themselves are well balanced, and a good warrior can kick a ton of arse.

As powerful? no.

But they could have been more fun/useful.

How about Critical Strike inflicting a one hit kill animation on any none boss mobs (100% hit) just like in the sacred ashes trailer? on bosses it could just inflict high damage with a knockdown.

The 2handed talents are so underwhelming.

2hander talents are good in my opinion, two handed sweep is great, and you get free stuns, knockdown + stun immunity, armor reduction to help you and other fighters. Not bad.

Sword&Board is superior and Two handed sweep has awful range.

[Eradyn]

Y'know...it IS possible to increase one's stamina...I've got my Strength and Dexterity up to such a point that I've begun putting points into it to get it up there...



I have a dual-wielding champion warrior...I'd have to say that survivability between both my previous arcane warrior and my dual-wielding champion has been equal. Perhaps it's just the way I spec them and then fill my roles...

[Navazr]

Two handed warrior talents are great!

-Passive ability that adds a stun component to all your attacks
-Passive ability that adds a "sunder armor" component to all your attacks
-360 degree AOE knockdown that does good damage
-Two "instant crit" abilities
-One single target knockdown skill
-Two decent sustained abilities.

Can't remember any other goodies, but I'm not in game.

My 2hander is a Champion/Templar.

On top of all the abilities listed above he gets:
-AoE Dispel
-Mana burn with AoE damage
-AoE enemy debuff and knockdown
-AoE Party buff

He's kind of the beast of my party.

EDIT: (Wow retarded... why did it double-space my post?)

Modifié par Navazr, 14 novembre 2009 - 02:09 .

[seb__]

I'm just in testing a dual-wielding reaver off-tank - there's no chance you can call this one underpowered. TBH, if your warriors suck, perhaps it's just your own fault?

[Unbroken Lineage]

seb__ wrote...

I'm just in testing a dual-wielding reaver off-tank - there's no chance you can call this one underpowered. TBH, if your warriors suck, perhaps it's just your own fault?

I concur.  After having played a Mage on Hard, I rolled a DW Warrior on Nightmare and I'm tearing it up.  It's a combination of things, but surely, Warriors are by no means underpowered.

It goes against common wisdom that my team (DW Warrior PC, Alistair Tank, Leliana Archer, Wynn just Heals) can shred our way through Nightmare due to lack of Mage-provided AOE DPS or Mage-provided AOE CC, but this is indeed the case.

I don't see Warriors as underpowered in the least.  And further, I never have any Stamina issues even without pumping any points into Willpower.  I'm using +Stamina, +Regen gear and skills plus Bard songs and I am never waiting for Stamina when I need to fire off a talent.  And besides, DW auto-attacks are amazing.

I used to have a lingering doubt, but now I am certain: the game is fine, and I've learned to play.

Modifié par Unbroken Lineage, 25 novembre 2009 - 05:10 .

[Sinfulvannila]

Well, I'm playing through on hard without mages and it's not that much harder than normal was with one mage the first time. If this was my first playthrough, it would be a nightmare but my only problem so far is that I have to be really careful how I spend my cash.

Modifié par Sinfulvannila, 25 novembre 2009 - 05:21 .