159 réponses à ce sujet

[Ulzeraj]

I got a better idea: lets create threads on the forums crying about totally uninportant aspects of ME2 and hope we can make the best game ever game look bad.

Modifié par Ulzeraj, 10 janvier 2011 - 06:51 .

[Rapamaha]

I liked heat clips, you cant use the same weapon all the time + when youre low on clips you really need to hit your targets

[Lunatic LK47]

didymos1120 wrote...

Lunatic LK47 wrote...
I did see sporadic amounts of rounds being replenished on each pick-up with the shotgun, Vindicator,  and Carnifex though, and I'm just going off by personal experience. Carnifex randomized either "2 or 3 shots each clip pick-up" from my experience.

Could be they have a small random factor in there to simulate the clips being partially spent when they're dropped by enemies.  The other thing is, the game will parcel out a single clip to multiple weapons if the one you're currently using gets filled by the pick-up and there's some leftover shots.  It'll also do that if your equipped gun is already full, and the next unequipped one doesn't need a full clip.  The game has to recalculate to figure out how many, say, 4 AR shots works out to for your pistol.  I imagine that involves a fair amount of rounding down.

Maybe, but I find it outright weird that picking up one clip will only give me two rounds for my Carnifex despite the fact that the rest of my other weapons are already filled to the brim, then yet again, it explains why my M8 and Revenant are constantly full when I'm equipped with either of the two rifles.

[sinosleep]

A hybrid system would never work all you would get is one group if people relying on one aspect of it or another no one would actually use it as a true hybrid system. Jot that it matters as it'll never get implemented any way.



They made it abundantly clear that their mission statement for ME2 was to get Tue shooting in line with the shooters of the era. They met their mission statement in that regard. Establishing a form of ammo was a part of that. They aren't going to be getting rid of it any time soon no matter how much the people that didn't like it complain.

[Nooneyouknow13]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

The number is given in one of the novels. I think it was 'Revelation' that had the number.

...Found it.

Page 28 of 'Mass Effect: Revelation': "They each carried half a dozen grenades and the Alliance's standard issue Hahne-Kedar g-921 Assault Rifle. The ammo clip on each weapon held over four thousand rounds; minitature pellets smaller than grains of sand."

Oh, OK, thanks.

For me, when I said unlimited in the earlier post, I was thinking about how omnigel can be used to keep the ammo supply in the weapons topped off.

I didn't know that pellets were described, I've always imagined flechettes were sheared off of a block of metal, I need to pick those books up

To be fair, this is what the in gamr codex says.

[Ulzeraj]

Noway! Without thermal clips we wouldnt have listened the "poping the heatsink" metaphor.

[archurban]

at least the game keeps some realistic fact. unlimited ammo? go, play mario.

[Grumpy-Mcfart]

Vit246 wrote...

What should be done is a sort of hybrid system between the thermal clips and overheating. You have a number of clips, and if your gun overheats all the way, you have to eject a clip, but if you can control the firing rate and heating, you'll never have to.

I would like it very much if they went back to this idea of a "hybrid" system if for no other reason that it actually makes sense. I mean, think about,it like this:

General:"How can we make our guns better?"

Weapons designer: "oh, I know, we'll make them utterly reliant on these little heat sinks that never cool off meaning that everyone has a limited amount of shots they can fire on par with late 20th century guns!"

General: "BRILLIANT!" 


(for aditional effect the word brilliant should be read in the tone of those old guinness commercials)

[Lotion Soronarr]

slimgrin wrote...

Or they could altar/improve the unlimmited ammo system...nah, let's just copy what popular shooters are doing.

You cannot improve that wich is intrinsicly broken.

Hell yeah for ammo. Or any other limitation. Heck, if I ware making it, I'd have heat + ammo + wear. You'd hate it!

[Lotion Soronarr]

Eag07 wrote...

Allowing players to choose is the logical decision, since there is a significant amount of people not happy with the ammo system. But since when do people make logical decisions, right?

No. It would be logical only if:

- both systems are equal, in regards to gameplay, implementation and tactics
- implementing both required no extra work hours
- hell froze over

[Torhagen]

guyz bioware tries to please the shooter crowd so they can milk more $

so dont try to argue with logic

[Severyx]

You've gotta be kidding me. Again with the thermal clip discussion started by a vocal minority.



While I didn't mind ME1's system, I do find that ME2's is, in fact, more realistic. Mass Accelerators generate lots of heat (even the small ones in pistols and rifles), and in real combat, you can't sit there waiting for your little 'cool down meter' to decrease while the enemy gets the upper hand.



Personally, and I've said this many times, I'm in favor of a hybrid system. Have a heat meter that averages out to X number of shots when firing the entire magazine, but have the heat (or number of shots before the clip needs to be ejected) slowly decrease as the weapon is not being used. The exception to this would be in areas with no heat transfer medium (I.E. an atmosphere) where it would be purely ME2 style.



Voila. A lore AND player friendly game mechanic. Everyone wins.

[morrie23]

I can live with the clip system if they acted truly universally. At the moment there is no pool of clips that Shep can use in any gun, instead each gun has its own pool of clips that once depleted can't be refilled with clips from other guns. I know why it's like this (to make you switch guns, make missed shots more costly), but I'd prefer one pool and I make the choice of which gun to use, based on the enemy I'm facing.

[wolfsite]

DJBare wrote...

wolfsite wrote...

I prefer the clips, prevents you from just spamming with one gun and you use powers more strategically.  Hell in ME1 once you got the X grade weapons with Frictionless Materials you could just hold down the mouse button and that's it for strategy.

I don't understand this, I stick with one weapon for the majority of time and thats the SMG, I only switch to another weapon for firepower like a missile launcher to take out heavy mechs, not once have I been forced to use another weapon because I'm out of thermal clips, oh I do use the sniper rifle, but that's only because it's a favorite weapon of mine, but so far, weapons selection has been by choice and not force.

?  Who said anything about force?

[SalsaDMA]

Lunatic LK47 wrote...

Skills that take a minute to cool down? What am I supposed to do, sit down in a fetal position while everything's on cooldown mode? ME1 was ****ing bad in this department.

While being in danger of sounding like a previous poster: It sounds like you are doing it wrong.

On my engineer playthrough I ended up using my gun rarely, because I was always using some special ability instead. Basicly I ended up chaining powers from one end to the other, and when I were using the last power, the first one was off cooldown again.

There's loads of ways to reduce cooldown quite significantly on your powers, as well as there are quite a bit of them, and they don't share cooldown.

So, yeah... You are doing it wrong, appearantly.

[Zurcior]

Torhagen wrote...

guyz bioware tries to please the shooter crowd so they can milk more $
so dont try to argue with logic

 Yeah From now on, you will no longer be taken seriously in this debate.

[Nicator]

Concerning the hybrid system: I vaguely remember reading somewhere that this is exactly what Bioware wanted to implement at first. However their test-player did, in fact, not like it, so the whole thing was dropped.
This is evidenced (at least the part about the hybrid system being cut out) by the fact that ammo regen can be applied by modding the coalescec.ini.

[Praetor Knight]

Nicator wrote...

Concerning the hybrid system: I vaguely remember reading somewhere that this is exactly what Bioware wanted to implement at first. However their test-player did, in fact, not like it, so the whole thing was dropped.
This is evidenced (at least the part about the hybrid system being cut out) by the fact that ammo regen can be applied by modding the coalescec.ini.

That's a shame, I wish I had been around to give some input.

[Chala]

Rapamaha wrote...

I liked heat clips, you cant use the same weapon all the time + when youre low on clips you really need to hit your targets

also, if you don't have ammo, it forces you to use your class abilities

[james1976]

I don't recall seeing the enemies ejecting thermal clips or your squad except in cut scenes. Yet you are restricted by it so you have scavenge clips. The system doesn't make me mad or anything and I can deal with it but I miss being able to customize my weapon so it rarely ever overheated. I refuse to use trainers/cheats with anything.

[SalsaDMA]

I never swapped weapon in ME1.

I swapped weapon quite alot in ME2.



I prefered there actually being a reason for me carrying around all these different weapons, so the ME2 system worked better gameplay-wise.

[Jorina Leto]

archurban wrote...

at least the game keeps some realistic fact. unlimited ammo? go, play mario.

The Thermal clips are not ammo. The ammo is a metal bloc in the weapons and running out is not an issue.
Therefore keep your realistic argument... it doesn't fit.
The lack of cool downs is the unrealistic part.

Ulzeraj wrote...

Noway! Without thermal clips we wouldnt have listened the "poping the heatsink" metaphor.

And who cares about such uselsss metaphors?

Modifié par Jorina Leto, 10 janvier 2011 - 06:29 .

[Warlokki]

Thermal clips and reloading is considerably better system than boring weapon cooldowns. Weapon mods that allowed infinite ammo are not any better...
Weapon modding though... that needs to come back. Maybe a mod that makes a to cool down passively (ie, automatically reloads ammo slowly constantly)?
EDIT and when i say "ammo" i don't mean the in-universe ammo... Obviously.

Modifié par Warlokki, 10 janvier 2011 - 06:35 .

[sinosleep]

Jorina Leto wrote...
The Thermal clips are not ammo. The ammo is a metal bloc in the weapons and running out is not an issue.
Therefore keep your realistic argument... it doesn't fit.
The lack of cool downs is the unrealistic part.

From a lore perspective you are correct, from a gameplay mechanics perspective though it's quite clear that thermal clips are functionally ammo.

Modifié par sinosleep, 10 janvier 2011 - 06:39 .

[Devos]

I'm not really sure what the point of the ammo system in ME 2 was. In my experience running out of ammo was annoying, infrequent and as much a result of bad luck as bad shooting. Which is to say I ran out of ammo exactly once on the last enemy of the recruit the assassin mission because nothing along the entire final stretch from the weapon locker dropped a single thermal clip. It was less hassle to just reload than kill them with powers alone.

In contrast plenty of shooters ammo does have definite point. Take Gears of War for example, the Lancer is great but ammo refills are moderately infrequent. The locust Boltok Rifle is not as good but fills a similar role and ammo drops are frequent. Then you have really ammo hungry weapons like the Longshot and Torque bow which can be very effective granting one shot kills even on Insane. Ammo management is something that factors into the strategic choices you make in your load out. ME2 has nothing like that. Ammo capacity between guns in the same type is comparable and your choice of gun is more often forced by circumstance than preference.

In ME2 what ammo means to me is mostly running around looking for thermal clips at the end of every fight and not being able to charge as much as I wanted to before I got the capacity upgrade when playing a Vanguard. I don't have a fundamental problem with an ammo system but I really want something done about the thermal clip search between fights.