89 réponses à ce sujet

[Schneidend]

marshalleck wrote...

Seriously though. Wesley Crusher. No?

Well, Wesley has never been blown up by an unnamed Klingon. Thus...through the transitive property...

But, really, I haven't watched enough Next Generation to make a judgement call. I have heard Wesley called a Stu, though. Wil Wheaton's fun, though. He absolutely flipped out when his character died in a D&D podcast.

[Aeowyn]

Some people seem to think that their Shepards are unbeatable and that nobody can take him/her down because "zomg Shepard killed reapers and blew up the Collector base". In short, their Shepards are Gods. That is what makes their Shepard's Sues.

IMO, Shepard does have impressive skills but also flaws, and I don't doubt that s/he could be killed in battle if there are too many foes to handle.

[adneate]

marshalleck wrote...
Seriously though. Wesley Crusher. No?

You could tar him with the brush if you ignore the fact that Sues originally were self-inserts. Though you could just as easily get the point across by saying he was an insufferable character with annoying and arrogant lines.

But why use many words when you could improperly use two?

[Pwner1323]

I think the alternate ending of ME2 where Shepard dies is enough clarification that he's not a Sue. For me mine isn't perfect and I try to espress it in my own playthroughs.

[marshalleck]

adneate wrote...

marshalleck wrote...
Seriously though. Wesley Crusher. No?

You could tar him with the brush if you ignore the fact that Sues originally were self-inserts. Though you could just as easily get the point across by saying he was an insufferable character with annoying and arrogant lines.

But why use many words when you could improperly use two?

Oh come on. You really don't think there was any wish fulfillment going on with Wesley Crusher?

[Pwner1323]

Getting off-topic. We were talking about Shepard, remember?

[Schneidend]

If Shepard were a Mary Sue, Adrenaline Rush would have no cooldown and the Claymore and Widow would have 12-round magazines.

[PrinceLionheart]

GodWood wrote...

Paragon Shep more so.

Nope, Renegade Shep is simply a Jerk Sue.

[slimgrin]

Maybe Miranda's name should have been Mary Sue

[Pwner1323]

Schneidend wrote...

If Shepard were a Mary Sue, Adrenaline Rush would have no cooldown and the Claymore and Widow would have 12-round magazines.

That's wrong. Mary Sues are defined by they're own physical and mental faculties as well as how high they are held by his/her creator. Having badass equipment does not make you a Mary Sue. If it did, all Jedis would be Mary Sues, and they're not.

[spacehamsterZH]

Schneidend wrote...

Daewan has an excellent example.

When most dudes see Bella they fall in love with her.

When most dudes see Shepard they open fire.

See the difference?

Uh, yeah, except in ME2, everyone and their grandparents wants to get into Shepards pants.

Plus there is the problem that's been discussed here numerous times where it's not really clear in ME2 why Shepard is important; I don't want to resurrect that debate, let's just say if you do buy into that, it's a Mary Sue-ish quality as well.

Generally, though, I don't think it's a term that applies to videogames. The worst quality of a Mary Sue is always that he/she is an obvious stand-in either for the writer, for what the writer wishes he/she were like or what the writer considers attractive. A videogame protagonist is a stand-in for the player. Conundrum.

[Pwner1323]

slimgrin wrote...

Maybe Miranda's name should have been Mary Sue

No, everyone hates her too much. Also, saving Shepard is the only thing she got right. She is shown to be perfect but isn't, that is why she tries so hard.

[Nightwriter]

We discussed this to death in the Character Room.

Their opinion was yes. My opinion is a Mary Sue can't have faults - or at least, faults that count - and Shepard does, he is incapable of talking to the Council without sounding like a bullheaded moron who cannot see reason.

[HTTP 404]

DeathtoTali wrote...

Pretty much. The same can be said of all RPG main characters, though. Kind of hard to get around.

I agree with this.. 

[Ryzaki]

Yes Shepard is very much a Sue.

[Pwner1323]

Nightwriter wrote...

We discussed this to death in the Character Room.

Their opinion was yes. My opinion is a Mary Sue can't have faults - or at least, faults that count - and Shepard does, he is incapable of talking to the Council without sounding like a bullheaded moron who cannot see reason.

So is that a yes or a no? I don't understand you're answear.

[Pwner1323]

mrsph wrote...

Shepard is the self-insert for the player. Of course s/he is a Mary Sue.

I think it depends on the player. Mine is not a Mary Sue at all. If yours is, then that's yours.

[Schneidend]

spacehamsterZH wrote...

Uh, yeah, except in ME2, everyone and their grandparents wants to get into Shepards pants.

A total of SEVEN people clearly want to get into Shepard's pants in the entirety of Mass Effect 2. That's with both genders of Shepard combined.

Plus there is the problem that's been discussed here numerous times where it's not really clear in ME2 why Shepard is important; I don't want to resurrect that debate, let's just say if you do buy into that, it's a Mary Sue-ish quality as well.

ME1: Highly skilled operative selected for possible induction into the Spectres.

ME2: Former Spectre, galactic hero, killed a living battleship, only public figure who believes reaper threat is real.

It's been established why Shepard is important right from each game's inception.

[Schneidend]

Are we just...naming tropes that don't apply to Shepard, now? 'Kay.



Sword Beam

[Pwner1323]

And this thread just went to hell. Thanks guys.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Pwner1323 wrote...

I just looked up the definition of Mary Sue (ironic since Im an aspiring writter) after seeing it pop up numerous times in threads and have to ask, is Shepard considered one?

I personally don't see it but people have said s/he is.

That's not ironic.  That's research.  Get used to it, fledgling. 

All my Shepards are characters with lives I guide.  Sometimes they do nice stuff, sometimes they do bad stuff.  But I don't get into wish fuffilment with my Shepards.  They aren't ideal versions of me.  I'm perfect already.

Modifié par RinpocheSchnozberry, 09 janvier 2011 - 09:30 .

[ISpeakTheTruth]

Its' an RPG where you are the only player of course you're going to be the main focus and be the center of almost everything that happens in the game. I doubt you'd buy



Mass Effect 4: The Homless Citizen. The main goal of the game is to beg for enough money so that you can live. Use paragon interuptions to make people feel bad for you. Use Renegad options to beat people for their money....Play now!

[Pwner1323]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Pwner1323 wrote...

I just looked up the definition of Mary Sue (ironic since Im an aspiring writter) after seeing it pop up numerous times in threads and have to ask, is Shepard considered one?

I personally don't see it but people have said s/he is.

That's not ironic.  That's research.  Get used to it, fledgling. 

All my Shepards are characters with lives I guide.  Sometimes they do nice stuff, sometimes they do bad stuff.  But I don't get into wish fuffilment with my Shepards.  They aren't ideal versions of me.  I'm perfect already.

lol, thanks for that, still have a long road ahead. As for Shepard I think it depends on the player for him to be a Sue or not.