Gleym wrote...
I like how you don't know what a Mary Sue is.
My Personal Dictionary says otherwise!
Is Shepard a Mary Sue?
Débuté par
Pwner1323
, janv. 09 2011 08:00
#76
Posté 10 janvier 2011 - 04:24
Khayness
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My Personal Dictionary says otherwise!
Retour en haut
#77
Posté 10 janvier 2011 - 04:25
lovgreno
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Well some times a bit of sueish yes. But mostly it's up to the player what Shepard they want.
#79
Posté 10 janvier 2011 - 05:16
didymos1120
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foilpainter wrote...
Miranda would be a Mary Sue, no?
More like she's presented initially as if she were, but that turns out to not be the actual case.
#80
Posté 10 janvier 2011 - 06:11
gabrielk2020
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If Shepard was a truly a Mary Sue, he/she wouldn't have Turian Councilors making air quotes at him/her. And everybody in the galaxy would just go along with Shepard's plans without really disagreeing.
#81
Posté 10 janvier 2011 - 06:32
SithLordExarKun
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Shepards not a mary sue but that horrible character Kahlee Sanders sure is. And maybe Liara too(haven't played LOTSB yet).
#82
Posté 10 janvier 2011 - 06:38
The Unfallen
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gabrielk2020 wrote...
If Shepard was a truly a Mary Sue, he/she wouldn't have Turian Councilors making air quotes at him/her. And everybody in the galaxy would just go along with Shepard's plans without really disagreeing.
Agreed, Shepard isn't a true Mary Sue, s/he has to struggle with her/is problems usually. If you want a true Mary Sue look at the link I posted on the previous page. Master Chief is the epitome of a Mary Sue since he has been 'perfect' physically and mentally since birth, not to mention how in Halo 3 Lord Hood goes with Master Chief's plans over the plans of a highly trained Admiral.
TBH, all the SPARTANS are Mary Sues.
#83
Posté 10 janvier 2011 - 06:46
habitat 67
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marshalleck wrote...
Wesley Crusher from Star Trek TNG is a good example of a Mary Sue type character. Always does the right thing (eventually at least), always saves the day whenever he is involved, he is liked by everyone around him, in general is favored by the writers and lacks any sort of character flaw.
Well, he is a big dork...
#84
Posté 10 janvier 2011 - 06:59
Monochrome Wench
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Pure paragon Shep would be close, but the character is what you make them. You want the perfect character who can do no wrong that everyone trusts, then its your doing. Just because Shep CAN be a Mary Sue like character, doesn't mean that the character IS a Mary Sue. Just take a look at the choices the game makes for Shep if you start a new character in ME2. Those are not the choices a Mary Sue would have made! Then consider that due to Sheps (your) incompetence that pretty much your entire crew can do, that character is not a Mary Sue!
Its true to say that Shep in ME1 could screw up and still come off with a reasonable outcome (except for the events on Virmire) but thats not true in ME2. You screw around in ME2, you have to live with the consequences. Screw the loyalty missions, people may die. Wait too long before going through the relay, people will die. Select the wrong people for the wrong tasks in the suicide mission, people may die!
Its true to say that Shep in ME1 could screw up and still come off with a reasonable outcome (except for the events on Virmire) but thats not true in ME2. You screw around in ME2, you have to live with the consequences. Screw the loyalty missions, people may die. Wait too long before going through the relay, people will die. Select the wrong people for the wrong tasks in the suicide mission, people may die!
Modifié par Monochrome Wench, 10 janvier 2011 - 07:04 .
#85
Posté 10 janvier 2011 - 07:35
Timberley
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Whoever it was that linked to TV Tropes initially... Damn you!
Anyway, using the definition of the MarySue from the Turkey City Lexicon Primer, I'd say that Shep can be a MarySue, it just depends how you play him/her. After all, it's an RPG, so whilst not conforming to Author-Insertion fantasy, it's pretty close.
On a wider note, in some ways the general story for ME displays many elements of Plot Coupon and Second-Order Idiot plotting... But i could be being harsh here.
Tim
Edit: Jeez... The website's got a great look at the characters and how they conform to various tropes. It's hysterical.
Anyway, using the definition of the MarySue from the Turkey City Lexicon Primer, I'd say that Shep can be a MarySue, it just depends how you play him/her. After all, it's an RPG, so whilst not conforming to Author-Insertion fantasy, it's pretty close.
On a wider note, in some ways the general story for ME displays many elements of Plot Coupon and Second-Order Idiot plotting... But i could be being harsh here.
Tim
Edit: Jeez... The website's got a great look at the characters and how they conform to various tropes. It's hysterical.
Modifié par Timberley, 10 janvier 2011 - 07:51 .
#86
Posté 10 janvier 2011 - 05:49
HTTP 404
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Archereon wrote...
Yes, Shepard is technically a Mary Sue, particularly Paragon Shepard. However, in legitimately escapist works, such as romance novels, the majority of comic books, and video games, that's perfectly acceptable.
(before you complain, video games are escapist. No they cannot, in the industry's current form, be considered art within any of the most prominent definitions of the term.)
Why am I saying this?
Paragon Shepard is always right. Seriously. S/he convinces everyone to do the right thing, gets all the happiest outcomes, and saves the galaxy despite being a wide eyed idealist in the face of a galactic apocalypse.
Renegade Shepard, the other side of the mary sue/gary stu coin, can do whatever he wants and get away with it. No consequences for his jerkassness, none that really matter at least. He takes what he wants, flips off his crew in ways that would raise some eyebrows in any real military force (while strictness is completely acceptable, the pure sadism of renegade Shepard is not). And in the end, we know he'll get just as happy as an ending (for him) as Paragon Shepard will get for the galaxy.
Neutral Shepard isn't a Mary Sue, just an incredibly bland character that nobody plays as.
this is summed up nicely.
I have tried to play a "real" character by playing a neutral character who is kind to people down on their luck but ruthless to the "bad guys" it was an ok playthrough but I wasnt rewarded for walking the middle road. In Mass Effect (and other games) you are rewarded for extreme "Evil" and "extreme "good"
#87
Posté 10 janvier 2011 - 05:51
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gabrielk2020 wrote...
If Shepard was a truly a Mary Sue, he/she wouldn't have Turian Councilors making air quotes at him/her. And everybody in the galaxy would just go along with Shepard's plans without really disagreeing.
The Turian Councilor is the Captain in Cheesy cop films. "HAND OVER YOUR BADGE!" etc etc
#88
Posté 10 janvier 2011 - 05:56
Amyntas
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I assume Mary Sue characters are said to be a sign of bad writing? Well, Shepard is a video game character, not a character in a novel. I don't think the same rules apply, because the player decides how successful Shepard is. (and players die as Shepard all the time)
Modifié par Amyntas, 10 janvier 2011 - 05:57 .
#89
Posté 10 janvier 2011 - 06:09
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I think Mary Sues as player characters are perfectly acceptable in video games
#90
Posté 11 janvier 2011 - 10:47
Gleym
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Amyntas wrote...
I assume Mary Sue characters are said to be a sign of bad writing? Well, Shepard is a video game character, not a character in a novel. I don't think the same rules apply, because the player decides how successful Shepard is. (and players die as Shepard all the time)
So your logic is.. that writing a character for a story is different because of the medium it's produced in? A badly written character is a badly written character, no matter the medium. Bella from Twilight is an obnoxiously, trashily-written Mary Sue just as much in the novels as she is in the movies - the medium can change, but the writing stays the same.
