451 réponses à ce sujet

[slimgrin]

kstarler wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Just give Shepard ammo. That's what the retcon is meant to be anyway. Since so many are convinced you can't have another mechanic in shooters other than ammo clips.

Can you actually give an example of someone saying that? Because I've read most of the posts here and I don't recall anyone saying that ammo is the only way to go. There are folks that have said of the available options, it is the best way, but I don't think anyone has said what you have said. Can you please provide a quote or two?

Lol...its been on three different threads for the past week dude, look it up. Most players want clips.

[Epic777]

slimgrin wrote...

There's always the possibility that I'm not comparing ME2 to ME1. But the game's like damn religion on this site. Flawless.

Which one?

[The Spamming Troll]

sinosleep wrote...

Oh really? In Gears one you had full control of your squad in that you command them to do whatever it was you needed them to do with a press of a button, cause I don't remember that.

And now we're only counting combat related aspects of the game and dismissing everything else? You seriously don't think that's absolutely absurd? Combat is not the only thing that makes up a game. You can't call ME 2 Gears with dialogue while dismissing everything that differentiates the two franchises by virtue of some of those things not being combat related. Not only that, but your math is off

class choice has an effect combat (vanguard doesn't play like an adept)
powers have an effect combat
controllable squad has an effect on combat (and no what Gears had isn't comparable)

http://www.metacriti...-2/user-reviews

User reviews are at 9.0, I see all of ONE user review on the front page that mentions Gears in a negative light. So yeah, great many is LAUGHABLE. A vocal minority on these boards? Sure. A great many overall, not even remotely close.

if you did nothing more then give marcus pheoniz "pull" then id have to say that version of gears would be more similar to ME2 then ME1 was.

is gears in space, does it have krogans, can i bang aliens? no, or most likely not. but that doesnt mean when im running around in ME2, i feel exactly like im playing a game based off gears of war instead of ME1. its not a bad thing to steal from an awesome game like gears, but id rather just play gears anyways.

its almost like ME2 never needed ME1, it needed gears of war.

[kstarler]

slimgrin wrote...

kstarler wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Just give Shepard ammo. That's what the retcon is meant to be anyway. Since so many are convinced you can't have another mechanic in shooters other than ammo clips.

Can you actually give an example of someone saying that? Because I've read most of the posts here and I don't recall anyone saying that ammo is the only way to go. There are folks that have said of the available options, it is the best way, but I don't think anyone has said what you have said. Can you please provide a quote or two?

Lol...its been on three different threads for the past week dude, look it up. Most players want clips.

So... even with the abundance of threads and posts, you don't have any quotes that people are so narrow minded as to only want ammo, and are unwilling to look at other systems. Good to know that you base your argument in speculation regarding others motives and intelligence (or lack thereof). It clarifies whether you are a serious individual or not.

I believe Sinosleep countered your argument with the post from Christina Norman before you made it. And his post had, you know, facts.

[sinosleep]

JKoopman wrote..

I had said "It's an overly-simplistic analogy perhaps, but it serves well enough to drive home the point that Mass Effect combat has become a carbon clone of every other "herp derp" shooter on the market with little originality or innovation." I had assumed that combat was what we were discussing...

Even talking strictly combat you'd still be way of base since you are trivializing major aspects of gameplay like a controllable squad, powers, and classes.

sinosleep wrote...

class choices only affect combat in that different classes have different powers. If you're going to count classes and powers as differentiating factors then you're basically counting the same thing twice.

At the end of the day, an analogy doesn't have to be literal truth to make it's point. I can say "This cheeze pizza is like hot lava" without it actually being 2400°F...

classes are about more than just powers, they're about weapon selection, offensive or defensive leanings, etc, etc, etc.

Also, for an analogy to be apt it needs to have some semblence of truth, Gears with dialogue doesn't so it's not an apt analogy.

sinosleep wrote...

To quote a age-old internet proverb; McDonalds is popular, but that doesn't make a BigMac fine cuisine.

If you hadn't brought up numbers you might have a point, but you did when you claimed a large portion of players were using gears with dialogue to describe ME 2. There's a vocal minority on THIS site that does that, the vast majority of user reviews I've seen on IGN, gamespot, metacritic, etc don't mention it at all.

Modifié par sinosleep, 12 janvier 2011 - 04:46 .

[The Spamming Troll]

isnt that becasue people on this site do nothing but love ME2? i dont think someone who doesnt like ME2 would post on its forum with much regularity.

theres also a conspiracy going on about someone deleting all the hate threads on the new ammo system as well. i wouldnt doubt it being kstarler.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 12 janvier 2011 - 04:50 .

[sinosleep]

LMFAO. The hate threads are deleted because posting repetitive drivel when there's already a thread discussing the aforementioned repetitive drivel is just a waste of bandwidth and front page real estate.

[kstarler]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

isnt that becasue people on this site do nothing but love ME2? i dont think someone who doesnt like ME2 would post on its forum with much regularity.

theres also a conspiracy going on about someone deleting all the hate threads on the new ammo system as well. i wouldnt doubt it being kstarler.

You know, I made a post-New Year's resolution that I wasn't going to respond to anymore of your posts Spamming, but I have to admit when someone posts something funny, and you made me chuckle a bit.
You caught me, I'm an ultra-secret covert BioWare employee with supreme moderator abilities!

Modifié par kstarler, 12 janvier 2011 - 05:54 .

[JKoopman]

sinosleep wrote...


Even talking strictly combat you'd still be way of base since you are trivializing major aspects of gameplay like a controllable squad, powers, and classes.

As I've already pointed out, classes and powers are effectively the same thing for comparitive sake and Gears of War already featured a controllable squad (even if you choose not to count it for reasons that it wasn't as "robust" as ME2's). That leaves ONE aspect of ME2 combat that isn't completely similar to Gears of War ("powers" which are as much a part of ME1's combat as they are ME2's, so you can't really say it was anything that ME2 specifically brought to the table). Excuse me if I don't feel that the analogy crumbles under the weight of your mighty logic.

sinosleep wrote...

For an analogy to be apt it needs to have some semblence of truth, Gears with dialogue doesn't so it's not an apt analogy.

Says who? As a previous poster pointed out, give Marcus Fenix "Pull" and ME2's combat engine would have more in common with GoW than it would with ME1. If that's not "Gears with a dialog wheel", I don't know what is.

But you're clearly steering the topic down an argumentative dead end. If you want to feel that "Gears with a dialog wheel" is an unfair analogy, that's your prerogative. Others feel it's an apt comparison, and at this point we're just arguing semantics.

sinosleep wrote...

If you hadn't brought up numbers you might have a point, but you did when you claimed a large portion of players were using gears with dialogue to describe ME 2. There's a vocal minority on THIS site that does that, the vast majority of user reviews I've seen on IGN, gamespot, metacritic, etc don't mention it at all.

Ok. I'll be sure to keep that in mind if I ever try to argue that a great many members of the community shared an impression on the GameSpot, IGN or Metacritic boards. As I don't post on those boards, I can't vouch for what their communities have or have not said and logically it can be inferred that I'm speaking of this specific board, so I'm not really sure where you're going with that.

Modifié par JKoopman, 12 janvier 2011 - 05:02 .

[Epic777]

~Raises Hand~
Open question: The ME series has always been a Action RPG specifically TPS-RPG. Why would it be a bad thing to draw inspiration from successful shooters when the series is partially a TPS?

No one???

Modifié par Epic777, 12 janvier 2011 - 05:24 .

[slimgrin]

So is anyone opposed to ammo? I say just give Shepard ammo. Could open up lots of tactical gameplay.

I have no doubt the writers could retcon ammo as easily as heatsinks. And this way, I'd already be familiar with the system. 

Modifié par slimgrin, 12 janvier 2011 - 05:03 .

[kstarler]

slimgrin wrote...

So is anyone opposed to ammo? I say just give Shepard ammo. Could open up lots of tactical gameplay.

I have no doubt the writers could retcon ammo as easily as heatsinks. And this way, I'd already be familiar with the system. 

If the current thermal clip system already works in the same manner as ammunition, why do they need to change anything? I always imagined that Jacob was changing out ammunition blocks as needed aboard the Normandy, so wouldn't it be easier for BioWare to keep heat sinks the way they are and add some dialogue that indicates that Jacob is maintaining the weapons' firing capabilities between missions?

[MassEffect762]

Team mates = don't use ammo



Enemy = don't use ammo



Shepard = uses ammo.



This correct?(haven't played in ages)



Not exactly perfect if you ask me.

[AdamNW]

I really don't think this matters. At all.

[sinosleep]

JKoopman wrote...

As I've already pointed out, classes and powers are effectively the same thing for comparitive sake and Gears of War already featured a controllable squad (even if you choose not to count it for reasons that it wasn't as "robust" as ME2's). That leaves ONE aspect of ME2 combat that isn't completely similar to Gears of War ("powers" which are as much a part of ME1's combat as they are ME2's, so you can't really say it was anything that ME2 specifically brought to the table). Excuse me if I don't feel that the analogy crumbles under the weight of your mighty logic.

Way to ignore my comment on how classes also determine weapon availability but that's ok...

Dismissing Gears' "controllable" squad makes complete sense considering the scope is not even remotely close.

And if you don't see the ridiculousness of trying to dismiss something from ME 2 because it was featured in a previous game in the series (um, DUH?) I don't know what to tell you.

Says who? As a previous poster pointed out, give Marcus Fenix "Pull" and ME2's combat engine would have more in common with GoW than it would with ME1. If that's not "Gears with a dialog wheel", I don't know what is.

But you're clearly steering the topic down an argumentative dead end. If you want to feel that "Gears with a dialog wheel" is an unfair analogy, that's your prerogative. Others feel it's an apt comparison, and at this point we're just arguing semantics.

Says anyone with common sense. Hell the argument you're making in trying to dismiss non-combat related aspects of the game when you specifically mentioned a non-combat aspect of the game in the analogy "gears with a dialogue wheel" is just as absurd as most of the other "points" you've been making.

That'd be like saying put Mickey Mouse in the mushroom kingdom and allow him to interact with everything there in the same way as Mario and you'd get Mario World! Of course you would, cause all you're doing is putting the damned character of Mickey in Mario World. Saying give Gears everything that makes mass effect, mass effect, and you'd get mass effect, isn't really making any kind of point.

sinosleep wrote...

Ok. I'll be sure to keep that in mind if I ever try to argue that a great many members of the community shared an impression on the GameSpot, IGN or Metacritic boards. As I don't post on those boards, I can't vouch for what their communities have or have not said and logically it can be inferred that I'm speaking of this specific board, so I'm not really sure where you're going with that.

That this board doesn't encompass any kind of majority and as such any statements about a great many people are patently ridiculous.

Modifié par sinosleep, 12 janvier 2011 - 05:17 .

[s0meguy6665]

BW/EA don't care about the integrity of the game. Only about making it into some brainless shooter.

Modifié par s0meguy6665, 12 janvier 2011 - 05:12 .

[kstarler]

s0meguy6665 wrote...

BW/EA don't care about the integrity of the game. Only about making it into some brainless shooter.

And this is why I shouldn't have even started reading this thread. Thank you for giving me a reason to bow out.

[sinosleep]

s0meguy6665 wrote...

BW/EA don't care about the integrity of the game. Only about making it into some brainless shooter.

Yeah, because you have to be a rocket scientist to play RPGs. Yay, my sig comes to life yet again.

Modifié par sinosleep, 12 janvier 2011 - 05:14 .

[JKoopman]

sinosleep wrote...

Way to ignore my comment on how classes also determine weapon availability but that's ok...

I ignored it because I don't feel it makes a lick of difference. I could just as easily replicate the weaponry aspect of classes in Gears by limiting myself to the "Snub" Pistol or the "Gnasher" Shotgun. It seems like you're grasping at straws for anything that might possibly differentiate the two.

sinosleep wrote...

Dismissing Gears' "controllable" squad makes complete sense considering the scope is not even remotely close.

The scope is not even remotely close? The only difference between Gears1's controllable squad and ME2's is that you can direct which (of the 1 or 2 available) powers your squadmates use.

Again, you're grasping at straws. You didn't even know Gears HAD a controllable squad before I brought it up, and now you pretend like you're an expert on it.

sinosleep wrote...

And if you don't see the ridiculousness of trying to dismiss something from ME 2 because it was featured in a previous game in the series (um, DUH?) I don't know what to tell you.

The point I was making was that you can't say "this is something that ME2 brings to the table" when it's just an extension of a system from ME1. We're discussing the differences in combat between ME1 and ME2 and how those differences relate to Gears of War, are we not?

I'm not arguing the point that ME2 has biotics and Gears doesn't. I'm arguing that it can't exactly be viewed as a plus specifically in ME2's column.

sinosleep wrote...

Says anyone with commen sense. Hell the argument you're making in trying to dismiss non-combat related aspects of the game when you specifically mentioned a non-combat aspect of the game in the analogy "gears with a dialogue wheel" is just as absurd as most of the other "points" you've been making.

Stop and re-read what you just said. I'm dismissing non-combat-related aspects of the game as they pertain to combat. Correct. We were discussing the differences in combat between ME2 and Gears. And you say it's absurd that I use "with a dialog wheel" in my analogy? How so? It would be absurd if I didn't. The point, my good sir, is that, as the combat is now nigh-identical, the addition of a dialog wheel is (and remember this is an analogy, not the literal truth) all that separates ME2 from Gears.

But I'm not going to sit here and waste 2 more hours trying to explain the meaning of "analogy" to you. If that's what you'd like to talk about, start a new thread.

sinosleep wrote...

That this board doesn't encompass any kind of majority and as such any statements about a great many people are patently ridiculous.

My mistake. I should've known to specify "a great many people FROM THIS SPECIFIC COMMUNITY AND NOT TAKEN FROM THE LARGER POOL OF EVERYONE ON XBOX LIVE. I'll be sure not to let it happen again.

[sinosleep]

JKoopman wrote...

I ignored it because I don't feel it makes a lick of difference. I could just as easily replicate the weaponry aspect of classes in Gears by limiting myself to the "Snub" Pistol or the "Gnasher" Shotgun. It seems like you're grasping at straws for anything that might possibly differentiate the two.

LOL, self limitation is the same thing as a built aspect of what separates the classes, yeah that makes sense...

The scope is not even remotely close? The only difference between Gears1's controllable squad and ME2's is that you can direct which (of the 1 or 2 available) powers your squadmates use.

Again, you're grasping at straws. You didn't even know Gears HAD a controllable squad before I brought it up, and now you pretend like you're an expert on it.

I haven't played Gears 1 in YEARS, and that aspect of it was such a non-factor I forgot it was even in the game. You don't have to be an expert to remember that Gears has no powers while ME 2 does and as such squad control is far more involved than anything Gears 1 could have provided. Not to mention that with 12 squad mates with different powers squad selection has a FAR bigger impact on the game than anything squad related in Gears. Doing a mission as an adept with Thane and Miranda plays COMPLETELY differently than doing that same mission with Garrus and Tali due to power combinations. That's not grasping at straws, that's stating facts.

[edit here] Hell I'm looking at Let's Play videos of Gears 1 and I don't see any squad control being utilized AT ALL so far.



[edit again]

Yeah, that squad is really comparable to this one

The point I was making was that you can't say "this is something that ME2 brings to the table" when it's just an extension of a system from ME1. We're discussing the differences in combat between ME1 and ME2 and how those differences relate to Gears of War, are we not?

I'm not arguing the point that ME2 has biotics and Gears doesn't. I'm arguing that it can't exactly be viewed as a plus specifically in ME2's column.

The fact that it was in ME 1 is completely beside the point. The point is that ME 2 has the feature while Gears doesn't. End of.

Modifié par sinosleep, 12 janvier 2011 - 05:57 .

[008Zulu]

Geth weapons are supposed to be plasma based, why have clips at all when they'd use an internal power source.



It was just Bioware looking to cater to the action/fps crowd. That or knowing how awesome the Widow is, didn't want you running around constantly with an unstoppable rifle.

[The Spamming Troll]

sinosleep wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

As I've already pointed out, classes and powers are effectively the same thing for comparitive sake and Gears of War already featured a controllable squad (even if you choose not to count it for reasons that it wasn't as "robust" as ME2's). That leaves ONE aspect of ME2 combat that isn't completely similar to Gears of War ("powers" which are as much a part of ME1's combat as they are ME2's, so you can't really say it was anything that ME2 specifically brought to the table). Excuse me if I don't feel that the analogy crumbles under the weight of your mighty logic.

Way to ignore my comment on how classes also determine weapon availability but that's ok...

Dismissing Gears' "controllable" squad makes complete sense considering the scope is not even remotely close.

And if you don't see the ridiculousness of trying to dismiss something from ME 2 because it was featured in a previous game in the series (um, DUH?) I don't know what to tell you.

Says who? As a previous poster pointed out, give Marcus Fenix "Pull" and ME2's combat engine would have more in common with GoW than it would with ME1. If that's not "Gears with a dialog wheel", I don't know what is.

But you're clearly steering the topic down an argumentative dead end. If you want to feel that "Gears with a dialog wheel" is an unfair analogy, that's your prerogative. Others feel it's an apt comparison, and at this point we're just arguing semantics.

Says anyone with common sense. Hell the argument you're making in trying to dismiss non-combat related aspects of the game when you specifically mentioned a non-combat aspect of the game in the analogy "gears with a dialogue wheel" is just as absurd as most of the other "points" you've been making.

That'd be like saying put Mickey Mouse in the mushroom kingdom and allow him to interact with everything there in the same way as Mario and you'd get Mario World! Of course you would, cause all you're doing is putting the damned character of Mickey in Mario World. Saying give Gears everything that makes mass effect, mass effect, and you'd get mass effect, isn't really making any kind of point.

sinosleep wrote...

Ok. I'll be sure to keep that in mind if I ever try to argue that a great many members of the community shared an impression on the GameSpot, IGN or Metacritic boards. As I don't post on those boards, I can't vouch for what their communities have or have not said and logically it can be inferred that I'm speaking of this specific board, so I'm not really sure where you're going with that.

That this board doesn't encompass any kind of majority and as such any statements about a great many people are patently ridiculous.

i think your disilusioned sino. your love of ME2 has blinded your objectivity.

[sinosleep]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

i think your disilusioned sino. your love of ME2 has blinded your objectivity.

Here's a thread by Terror_K one of the biggest supporters of ME 1 and a person who I've argued with CONSTANTLY on these forums.

http://social.biowar...5/index/5152644

This his idea for a perfect ME 3 that makes many suggestions for changes to make about things he didn't like in ME 2. Check page 2 and up. I AGREE with him on a great many things and posted as much in that thread.

There's a LOT I like about ME 2, but there's plenty I don't. I'm not just blindly defending every aspect of the game. Thermal clips happens to be one I don't have any problems with, hell combat in general I don't have a problem with. But ME 2 has plenty of issues.

Modifié par sinosleep, 12 janvier 2011 - 06:05 .

[Praetor Knight]

Edit: Meh. I gave it more thought, and decided to put this in a blog entry. A link is in my sig now.

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 12 janvier 2011 - 07:41 .