451 réponses à ce sujet

[didymos1120]

Atmosfear3 wrote...

The one thing that I never understood was how you could possibly mod a round when the bullet is supposedly the size of a grain of sand. How the heck does a grain of sand snap-freeze a target?

Well, a grain doesn't.  It takes lots of grains of sand to cause a full freeze.  That said, I've never really been a fan of "freeze ray" weapons and I never quite find them entirely believable.

[goatman42]

I like that fact that your not "reloading", your just sticking a piece of metal in your gun to cool it down so that you can keep firing. Thats pretty awesome.



Also you have to take these things with a grain of salt. Continuity errors are going to happen when dealing with a universe this big. You just got to let it go.

[Terror_K]

diskoh wrote...

What is the very first line Shepard says when he awakens?

"This pistol doesn't have a thermal clip!" as if he's familiar with it already. If it was something developed while he was dead, he would've said "WTF is with this gun it's all different!"

So the concept must have been implemented in the brief period after ME1, before the Collectors attacked Shepard.

Unlikely, though it may have been in the early stages. Remember, only about a month has passed between the end of ME1 and Shepard being attacked by The Collector ship at the start of ME2. It's already unlikely enough as it is that the technology has become so ingrained everywhere in only two years, let alone only a few weeks.

I'd say a more feasible explanation is that while Shepard was comatose he/she subconsciously heard Miranda and the other Cerberus scientists working around him discussing things like that casually while working on him/her. More likely it was simply lazy writing, but that's basically my theory behind it.

Modifié par Terror_K, 10 janvier 2011 - 06:08 .

[SithLordExarKun]

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...


You nitpickers are a pain sometimes. Think outside the box and stop looking for small flaws for god's sake.

I agree honestly. Only geeks with a small penis care so much about small continuity errors.

[Praetor Knight]

I remember there being an assignment on the Citadel where there was talk of possible research from weapons damage that was inconsistent with what was seen before.

Maybe Thermal Clips was what came out of that research regardless of what happened in that particular assignment.

As diskoh alluded to, maybe that's why picking up the pistol with no thermal clip is not a surprise to Shep, when Shep wakes up, IMHO.

[Praetor Knight]

SithLordExarKun wrote...

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...


You nitpickers are a pain sometimes. Think outside the box and stop looking for small flaws for god's sake.

I agree honestly. Only geeks with a small penis care so much about small continuity errors.

<_<

Too much I say...

[Terror_K]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

I remember there being an assignment on the Citadel where there was talk of possible research from weapons damage that was inconsistent with what was seen before.

Maybe Thermal Clips was what came out of that research regardless of what happened in that particular assignment.

It sounds like you're thinking of the sidequest involving Samesh Bhatia and his wife, Nirali's, body that was recovered from Eden Prime. That research was actually related to the wounds she recieved and the Alliance trying to learn more from such wounds in order to better protect their own soldiers.

There's apparently cut content in ME2 that would have revealed that if the player left the body with the Alliance it resulted in the form of improved defenses. Why it was cut I don't know, since the alternative outcome is there whereby Samesh sends you an email thanking Shepard for getting his wife's body back, so the tag clearly set properly, at least partially.

[adam_grif]

SithLordExarKun wrote...

I agree honestly. Only geeks with a small penis care so much about small continuity errors.

Stay classy there chief.

There's apparently cut content in ME2 that would have revealed that if
the player left the body with the Alliance it resulted in the form of
improved defenses. Why it was cut I don't know, since the alternative
outcome is there whereby Samesh sends you an email thanking Shepard for
getting his wife's body back, so the tag clearly set properly, at least
partially.

Obviously it's because they didn't want to reward a renegade decision

Modifié par adam_grif, 10 janvier 2011 - 06:49 .

[bbbbbb]

but my assault rifle from ME1 fired faster than any weapon in mass effect 2.....it fired so fast that the game glitched and only fired one visible shot for every 3 fired......and that on top of never overheating....i gotta say for me...it was a downgrade

[Praetor Knight]

Terror_K wrote...

It sounds like you're thinking of the sidequest involving Samesh Bhatia and his wife, Nirali's, body that was recovered from Eden Prime. That research was actually related to the wounds she recieved and the Alliance trying to learn more from such wounds in order to better protect their own soldiers.

There's apparently cut content in ME2 that would have revealed that if the player left the body with the Alliance it resulted in the form of improved defenses. Why it was cut I don't know, since the alternative outcome is there whereby Samesh sends you an email thanking Shepard for getting his wife's body back, so the tag clearly set properly, at least partially.

Yeah, didn't know that regarding the cut content, and I tried to stay vague since I wasn't sure if that was a spolier or not.

[didymos1120]

Praetor Shepard wrote...
Yeah, didn't know that regarding the cut content, and I tried to stay vague since I wasn't sure if that was a spolier or not.

See the first link in my sig.  That video has the news story about it.

[Terror_K]

adam_grif wrote...
Obviously it's because they didn't want to reward a renegade decision

It's not necessarily a renegade decision though. The quest could be handled in several different ways, and there was actually a full-on Paragon method of resolving it. If you went back and talked with Clerk Bosker again and found out why, you could then return to Samesh and convince him that it's for the best and more lives will be saved, and then Samesh reluctantly agrees and comes to the conclusion that that's probably what Nirali would want anyway. Similarly, you can get her body back to him in a Renegade manner.

[Praetor Knight]

didymos1120 wrote...

Praetor Shepard wrote...
Yeah, didn't know that regarding the cut content, and I tried to stay vague since I wasn't sure if that was a spolier or not.

See the first link in my sig.  That video has the news story about it.

Thanks, that segment starts at 41 secs and mentions weapons upgrades.

Is there anymore cut content that says more?

[didymos1120]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

Thanks, that segment starts at 41 secs and mentions weapons upgrades.

Is there anymore cut content that says more?

About Bhatia? No.  I put all the unused galactic news into that video.  The second link in my sig, however, has all the unused primary codex entries, one of which is for thermal clips.

[Lost Cipher]

It is true that Bioware handled the situation quite poorly.

They could have done something like this:

The newly restored Commander Shepard wakes up in a Cerberus medical lab to the sounds of distant gunfire and explosions. The battle is drowned out by a loud and commanding female voice emanating from a communications relay nearby.

"Wake up Commander!" she commands, "Shepard, do you hear me? Get out of that bed now -- this facility is under attack. Shepard. Your scars aren't healed, but I need you to get moving. This facility is under attack."

Shepard rises, shaking off the effects of a two year death... whilst the world becomes more clear, and distant sensations return, the commanding female voice continues. "There's a pistol in the locker on the other side of the room. Hurry! Grab the pistol and armor from the locker."

Now on his feet, the reborn Shepard rushes to the weapons locker across the room. The now familiar voice of the distant female instructor returns yet again, "You don't have time to wait around, Shepard! Grab your weapon
and armor!"

Shepard dons a set of armor, and grabs a pistol from the locker with haste. Upon close inspection of the weapon, Shepard realizes something is wrong with what seems to be a standard M-3 Predator manufactured by the reliable Elanus Risk Control Services.

"Somethings off.. Pistol registers that it can't fire, yet it seems to be a standard M-3 Predator. Calls for a thermal clip?" Shepard, puzzled by the malfunction of a familiar weapon, calls to the distant female voice, chancing that the communications system has been set to an active two-way state.

The loud speaker crackles, the now familiar female voice fills the air once again. "****! Forgot a lot of things change in two years... Recent developments retrofitted from geth technology allow for more effective waste heat control. Via the use of cheap, mass produced, eject-able heat sinks."

Shepard shakes his head, trying to think. Not enough time to postulate an inquisitive question, "Well what the hell am I supposed to do with a broken gun?"

"Your in a sickbay, not an armory! Go through the door, I am unlocking the emergency weapons locker in the hallway. You'll find plenty of thermal clips inside. Now get out of that damn room!" she responds.

Apologies, I am not a great author. Though I wish to be one day.

Modifié par Lost Cipher, 10 janvier 2011 - 08:02 .

[The Smoking Man]

The Smoking Man wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

The Smoking Man wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

I don't get why it's so difficult for people to accept that they're disposable.  Obviously, the the thermal clips don't work via radiative cooling, but rather something like an endothermic reaction or a phase transition.

Judging by the ending scene of Zaeed's loyalty mission, I have dismissed your claim.

Unless you justify that, I'll just have to dismiss your dismissal.

Ejected clips are hot enough and capable enough of conducting heat to cause a big bonfire. (And visibly smoulder and make sizzling sounds.) If it were based on some kind of endothermic reaction, the spent clip would likely not be quite that hot when ejected.

Just to add to that, if you take the unused Thermal Clip Codex entry into account, the devices doing the cooling are specifically referred to as heat sinks, which work via radiative cooling by definition.

[Severyx]

The Smoking Man is correct. Heat sinks are ejected, thermal clips hold multiple heat sinks. The lore reason for thermal clips does make perfect sense. The problem is, as stated many time before in this thread and others, there was a lot of oversight in the continuity regarding this issue. For those silly people using Jacob's loyalty mission as an argument, there are a few very valid reasons for why there are thermal clips there.

1) It would be an utterly retarded waste of precious development time to revamp the heating system, regardless of how potentially simple it would be, for a few NPCs on one loyalty mission.

2) I wouldn't be happy if I was playing the mission on insane and was completely forced to rely on biotics/tech for the Ymir battle because I ran out of thermal clips and there were none to be found. Soldier classes would be straight up boned.

In areas where clips were mentioned pre-Shepard's death (example: One of Zaeed's stories about Jessie), it is nothing more than a brief oversight. This does not destroy immersion. I personally think the story has more impact than it would without it. This is the equivalent of complaining that Shepard was looking straight ahead when the person he was conversing with was on his right.

There are massive lists of inconsistencies far more critical than this in movies popular far and wide. Just acknowledge it and move along.

That said, I fully appreciate what the OP was trying to accomplish by taking a shot at educating the masses. Unfortunately, there will always be people that will complain simply because it 'wasn't like the first game', or even more shallow, 'because they just don't like it'. I still have some minor issues with the execution of the clip system, as I favor a hybrid heating system (if you don't know what a hybrid system is, look it up elsewhere in the forums), but I still recognize this as a move in the right direction.

Modifié par Severyx, 10 janvier 2011 - 02:20 .

[Terror_K]

Hey, I'll fully admit that it's not really a bad gameplay mechanic, and I can see why they did it (even if I'd prefer not to have to deal with "ammo" in the game). It's just terribly integrated into the narrative and lore. So much so I honestly think it would have just been better if they'd made it a purely gameplay mechanic and simply had them without any references at all in the narrative.

[SalsaDMA]

BiancoAngelo7 wrote...

Cuz no matter what reasoning you wanna give me, no military commander is going to go from "infinite ammo for troops" to "limited ammo for troops"

That's a silly statement.

Ammo isn't the only consideration when considering weapons.

Let's take your argument and pervert it to show a flaw in it:

"No millitary commander is going to go from swords (unlimited ammo) for troops to guns (limited ammo) for troops"

In other words, your basic argument is too simplistic and inherently flawed at its level of simplicity.

[RyuGuitarFreak]

The Smoking Man wrote...

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

Eag07 wrote...

I especially like the way how the thermal clip technology was developed, tested, implemented and distributed into every weapon in the known galaxy, including those isolated for many years (mechs on Aeia): all within the span of two solar years. That was explained *really* well. An awesome retcon indeed...

Yep. Especially with things like The Migrant Fleet where the quarians are struggling with resources to keep their ships spaceworthy as it is, yet have the resources to make sure that every damn weapon in their entire flotilla has been updated within 2 years. And on Omega where down-and-out criminals and thugs have to all have the latest in weapons technology, rather than scrounging for the cheapest, oldest guns they could get their hands on. Seems the old weapons just completely disappeared entirely from the face of the whole galaxy. It would have taken a force of millions of some kind of "Thermal Clip Integration Squad" going around the entire galaxy around the clock for the entire two years Shepard was down and out to even remotely make the transition to the degree that we see in ME2.

You know, in ME2 we don't go every planet to see if every person in the world has a new gun, we're mostly in the Terminus, Omega for example, facing not down-and-out criminals but organized mercenaries which you can think they invest a lot of money in, well, weapons!

As for quarrians they harvest ships and thrown out equipment looking down for useful stuff they can use like, weapons for example and we saw one ship of the whole flotilla and one or two organized squad of their military. Also it's possible that with their technology they could alter their weapons to the thermal clip model. If Karl Reagar has a new remote rocket launcher on his disposal couldn't they have weapons with thermal clips after 2 years?

You nitpickers are a pain sometimes. Think outside the box and stop looking for small flaws for god's sake.

Got any explanation for the guns and thermal clips seen during Jacob's loyalty mission, then?

No I don't, that's why I didn't quote with an explanation, and that wasn't my point. As I said, small flaw, did it break your experience completely to the point you cared about it more than the proper story in that segment? No, so move on, if yes I'm sorry that you think you wasted your money. Also, my point was that some complains can be simply broken with some thought through knowledge of the well, ME universe that you seem to know so well.

[Jorina Leto]

SalsaDMA wrote...

BiancoAngelo7 wrote...

Cuz no matter what reasoning you wanna give me, no military commander is going to go from "infinite ammo for troops" to "limited ammo for troops"

That's a silly statement.

Ammo isn't the only consideration when considering weapons.

Let's take your argument and pervert it to show a flaw in it:

"No millitary commander is going to go from swords (unlimited ammo) for troops to guns (limited ammo) for troops"

In other words, your basic argument is too simplistic and inherently flawed at its level of simplicity.

Your argument is just wrong. Modern guns are better than swords but the heatsinks are a downgrade.

[Lumikki]

Jorina Leto wrote...

Your argument is just wrong. Modern guns are better than swords but the heatsinks are a downgrade.

I ques it is, because from heavy magic system, it tries to come closer to light magic system. So, yea it's downgrade of magic, but upgrade of science reality.

PS: I'm not interested argue this again, when it has been done many time before. Both ME1 and ME2 has magical weapon system, because it goes beyond any physical reality. Mostly prefering material vs energy laws.

Modifié par Lumikki, 10 janvier 2011 - 04:46 .

[m4pneub08]

I was thinking about what you mentioned here, although there were mods in ME to manage heat, the Heat Sink could still be affected by Sabotage. With ejectable clips you could just eject the spent one and then continue firing, neutralizing Sabotage's usefulness.



Edit: fixing typos[/quote]


I think my entire perception of thermal clips just changed with that.

[Jorina Leto]

Lumikki wrote...

Jorina Leto wrote...

Your argument is just wrong. Modern guns are better than swords but the heatsinks are a downgrade.

I ques it is, because from heavy magic system, it tries to come closer to light magic system. So, yea it's downgrade of magic, but upgrade of science reality.

PS: I'm not interested argue this again, when it has been done many time before. Both ME1 and ME2 has magical weapon system, because it goes beyond any physical reality. Mostly prefering material vs energy laws.

Magic? lolwut

[Lumikki]

Jorina Leto wrote...

Magic? lolwut

Yes, put you brains in work.

How much damage you do in impact is related size of the object (bullet). Pistol has also size as how big it is. Where are all 1000000  "ammo" material coming, because they hell don't fit inside the pistol. Because smaller the "ammo" what hits the target is, less damage it does. Increasing speed to closer to light speed does not increase the damage. Problem has been that you people and Bioware things only about heat system, but not idea that material doesn't come from nothingness. 1000000 "ammos" just doesn't fit inside the pistol if they aren't really small, but if they are that small, they can't kill human being. It's oxymoron, because it's impossible situation, so it's magic. Because everyting what can't be explained by science or principle of science, is magic. (1000000 x1mm x 1mm x 1mm ammos = 10cm x 10cm x 10cm container. (Bigger than pistol is) So, unlimited ammo is impossible situation, even for 1mm size of bullet.

My point is that unlimited ammo in pistol is oxymoron. How ever, with science it is possibility to explain high number of ammos, like 1000's, even in hand held pistol, but unlimited is pure magic.

Modifié par Lumikki, 10 janvier 2011 - 05:24 .