451 réponses à ce sujet

[C-Gamer90]

Jorina Leto wrote...

Dark_Dahlia wrote...

Jorina Leto wrote...

HTTP 404 wrote...

its just a game play mechanic which I like

But I do not like it. I usually do not play shooters. And if it weren't the sequel of a good bioware rpg I wouldn't have bougth it.

Bioware, please add an option to choose the prefered combat mode. Then the shooter fans can have their standard shooter gamplay and everyone else can enjoy the game as well.

If they were to bring back the system from ME1 wouldn't that just cause further storyline issues than just sticking with thermal clips?

Just a comment by Shepard that he/she is glad to get a good weapon without that sucking thermal clips. And when the temporary squad mate dies at the beginnig because he kept using thermal clips an ran out of them everything is fine.

Well ignoring the supposed impossibility of the entire galaxy switching to thermal clips in two years, were would Shepard find a gun like those in ME1? Let alone finding them consistently throughout the galaxy without BioWare having to come out with another codex entry to explain it, and not add anymore plot holes?

[The Smoking Man]

Pwner1323 wrote...

Hybrid sistem for ME3 would please both parties perfectly. I myself enjoy the thermal clips very much (always hated the cooldown, it broke the game when you mix the spectre weapons and frictionless materials X. You can go with other stuff but I like using the best) and hope that they keep it for ME3 but hope you guys get what you want too. Hybrid is the way to go in this situation. I saw a MOD that implemented it very well. If BW copies it then we might get somewhere after all.

It'd be ridiculously hard to balance the two aspects of such a hybrid system so that they're both equally important overall, for one. Second, it'd threaten to bring back the huge imbalance (in other words, the mindless bullet spam) that ME1's system had. I'm not arguing that the ammo system sucks (gameplay-wise), I'm arguing that the writing behind it is garbage and has various sorts of holes. After all, bad writing is bad. I'm also implicitly arguing that good writing is good, and is something that should be seen in ME3 in lieu of bad writing.

Modifié par The Smoking Man, 10 janvier 2011 - 07:38 .

[Phaedon]

The Smoking Man wrote...
]5 seconds is 3 more seconds more than 2 seconds. Infinite ammo/shots is infinitely more than the 24 shots (that's with reloading using all the thermal clips you can carry for it at one time) I get from a Scimitar in ME2.

Why do you bring this up again? I didn't face any lack of ammunition problems, except for the heavy weapons. For the third time, your point is moot.

[Jagri]

Ah this tread again... I remember a Alliance Outpost that was attacked for over 18 hours straight by waves of ***** in Mass Effect 1. How long do you think they would last with this new supposely upgraded weapon system? I bet you they would have run out of thermal clips/heat sinks within the first thirty minutes of engagement.

Despite what anyone says having served in the military the weapon system from Mass Effect 1 was ever soldiers wet dream. I know logistics officers and generals would sell their souls for such technology in the hands of their troops. If people have "trigger discipline" the gun will never over heat.

But its more for Gameplay value anyway.

- Edit to remove minor spoilers

Modifié par Jagri, 10 janvier 2011 - 08:05 .

[Jorina Leto]

Phaedon wrote...

Jorina Leto wrote...
You didn't get. The supposed advancement doesn't exist in the gameplay.

I am pretty sure that I don't have to wait for my weapon to cool down. :happy:

Yeah, you just run out of thermal clips and they are gone. Even if you wait an hour.

With an hybrid system this should not happen and that is what the lore dictates.

[Phaedon]

Jorina Leto wrote...
Yeah, you just run out of thermal clips and they are gone. Even if you wait an hour.

With an hybrid system this should not happen and that is what the lore dictates.

Reposting something that has already been answered for half a dozen times doesn't really help your case.

Despite what anyone says having served in the military the weapon system from Mass Effect 1 was ever soldiers wet dream. I know logistics officers and generals would sell their souls for such technology in the hands of their troops. If people have "trigger discipline" the gun will never over heat.

Not in CQC, the kind of combat ME2 had for 90% of the game.

Modifié par Phaedon, 10 janvier 2011 - 07:41 .

[The Smoking Man]

Phaedon wrote...

The Smoking Man wrote...
]5 seconds is 3 more seconds more than 2 seconds. Infinite ammo/shots is infinitely more than the 24 shots (that's with reloading using all the thermal clips you can carry for it at one time) I get from a Scimitar in ME2.

Why do you bring this up again? I didn't face any lack of ammunition problems, except for the heavy weapons. For the third time, your point is moot.

I didn't face any big problems from having to wait for my weapon to cool down, either. In fact, when abusing snowblind rounds, your weapon almost never overheats anyway. However, I would keep running out of ammo for my Widow, since Shepard decides he should only carry enough at any one time to fire it 13 times.

Modifié par The Smoking Man, 10 janvier 2011 - 07:42 .

[Phaedon]

The Smoking Man wrote...
I didn't face any big problems from having to wait for my weapon to cool down, either. In fact, when abusing snowblind rounds, your weapon almost never overheats anyway.

Well, I did in harder levels, and I am sure I am not the only one. Having to use a specific ammo type in order to survive with a flawed system doesn't help either.

[Praetor Knight]

Jagri wrote...

Ah this tread again... I remember a Alliance Outpost that was attacked for over 18 hours straight by waves of Rachni in Mass Effect 1. How long do you think they would last with this new supposely upgraded weapon system? I bet you they would have run out of thermal clips/heat sinks within the first thirty minutes of engagement.

Maybe more survive with ME2 weapons.

They are front line troops with Omnitools. There should be plenty of junk (including spent Thermal Cips) to smelt down into omnigel and make more Thermal Clips, since the Rachni did attack in waves, giving them time to regroup.

[The Smoking Man]

Phaedon wrote...

The Smoking Man wrote...
I didn't face any big problems from having to wait for my weapon to cool down, either. In fact, when abusing snowblind rounds, your weapon almost never overheats anyway.

Well, I did in harder levels, and I am sure I am not the only one. Having to use a specific ammo type in order to survive with a flawed system doesn't help either.

Try practicing trigger discipline. There's also those nifty gun abilities that let you fire nonstop. You don't have to use snowblind rounds (I personally never did because they were so broken), by the way.

[Phaedon]

Oh, I did practice trigger discipline. Ended up having the same effect, since I still had to have my weapon cool down. All in all, I am glad that heatsinks didn't return in ME2, but a hybrid system would be interesting for ME3.

[Googlesaurus]

Meh. Thermal clips work a lot better in principle than they would in reality.

[The Smoking Man]

Phaedon wrote...

Oh, I did practice trigger discipline. Ended up having the same effect, since I still had to have my weapon cool down. All in all, I am glad that heatsinks didn't return in ME2, but a hybrid system would be interesting for ME3.

Yeah, you would have to let your weapon cool down, but if you do it right, you spend less time waiting for your weapon to cool down that you would if you were having to reload after every X shots guaranteed. I hardly ever got killed in ME1 due to having to let my weapon cool down, but the bad cover system mechanics (and Benezia's bugged throw of death and desolation) got me owned plenty of times (good thing they were fixed in ME2). A hybrid system would be interesting to see, yet, like I said, it'd be very hard to design and implement, and it's really just asking to go back to the bullet spam brokenness of ME1. Actually, it might work if it was just something like waiting for your thermal clips to cool down replaced the thermal clip scavenger hunt that you'd have to go through after every significant firefight in ME2.

Modifié par The Smoking Man, 10 janvier 2011 - 07:56 .

[Jorina Leto]

Phaedon wrote...


Reposting something that has already been answered for half a dozen times doesn't really help your case.

Maybe you just still wrong...

[didymos1120]

Jorina Leto wrote...
Yeah, you just run out of thermal clips and they are gone. Even if you wait an hour.

You kill stuff, and the bodies magically vanish.  Your ejected clips are no different: they don't persist as objects in the engine. 

Modifié par didymos1120, 10 janvier 2011 - 07:56 .

[Bamboozalist]

Jagri wrote...

Ah this tread again... I remember a Alliance Outpost that was attacked for over 18 hours straight by waves of Rachni in Mass Effect 1. How long do you think they would last with this new supposely upgraded weapon system? I bet you they would have run out of thermal clips/heat sinks within the first thirty minutes of engagement.

Thermal clips are reusable. Just like soldeirs can pick up magazines they discard during combat. The difference is that with a thermal clip you can throw it back into your weapon and keep shooting till it overheats again.

Also their weapons would have been destroyed from internal overheating damage after 18 hours on the ME1 system.

[The Smoking Man]

Bamboozalist wrote...

Thermal clips are reusable. Just like soldeirs can pick up magazines they discard during combat. The difference is that with a thermal clip you can throw it back into your weapon and keep shooting till it overheats again.

Except they're never demonstrated as such. They're treated as purely disposable supplies. And the clips in your weapons don't seem to cool down by themselves, ever, no matter how long you wait.

Modifié par The Smoking Man, 10 janvier 2011 - 08:01 .

[Jagri]

Never had to deal with weapon heat unless hit by a enemy ability. Fact I remember upgrades that made heat management a breeze.

I didn't know about melting down Thermal Clips or junk to make more of them. If that was in Mass Effect 2 I wouldn't say a thing about them however I figure Shepard would have access to the top of the line gear and would be able to do the same as soldiers on the field to produce more Thermal Clips.

"Jack cover me while I get us some fresh clips!" You know something like that... Or perhaps maybe everyone was secretly laughing at Shepard cause he/she was the only idiot who didn't know they are reuseable

Modifié par Jagri, 10 janvier 2011 - 08:03 .

[Phaedon]

Jorina Leto wrote...

Phaedon wrote...


Reposting something that has already been answered for half a dozen times doesn't really help your case.

Maybe you just still wrong...

Or maybe you don't know how constructive debates work. I have made my point, and you just repost the same thing again and again. How are we supposed to reach a consensus like this?

To conclude with this thread, like them or not, thermal clips make perfect sense. Technolodgy advances, new systems are implemented. There were no huge changes. The same weapons are still used, but now, you just place a thermal clip in the place where the heatsink used to be.

[The Smoking Man]

The Smoking Man wrote...

To eliminate this inefficiency, the geth adopted detachable heat sinks
known as thermal clips.

... *Self-facepalm*
Why did I bother trying to use the unused Codex entry as evidence for thermal clips being heat sinks when a used Codex entry also already says they are heat sinks?

Modifié par The Smoking Man, 10 janvier 2011 - 08:10 .

[Praetor Knight]

The Smoking Man wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

Oh, I did practice trigger discipline. Ended up having the same effect, since I still had to have my weapon cool down. All in all, I am glad that heatsinks didn't return in ME2, but a hybrid system would be interesting for ME3.

Yeah, you would have to let your weapon cool down, but if you do it right, you spend less time waiting for your weapon to cool down that you would if you were having to reload after every X shots guaranteed. I hardly ever got killed in ME1 due to having to let my weapon cool down, but the bad cover system mechanics (and Benezia's bugged throw of death and desolation) got me owned plenty of times (good thing they were fixed in ME2). A hybrid system would be interesting to see, yet, like I said, it'd be very hard to design and implement, and it's really just asking to go back to the bullet spam brokenness of ME1. Actually, it might work if it was just something like waiting for your thermal clips to cool down replaced the thermal clip scavenger hunt that you'd have to go through after every significant firefight in ME2.

Defenses have also changed from ME to ME2, maybe that's why Biotics are also considered "less effective" on ME2 defenses compared to enemies in ME.

IMHO, the two systems are not easily comparable in that manner you approach it. Round for round damage is different and the number of rounds you can fire is different between both games regardless of the cover systems.

I agree that a hybrid system is hard to balance, apparently that was partly why it was dropped in developing ME2. I'd rather stay with the ME2 system with a few tweaks and a better explaination of how it came about.

*******************************
I've faced Benezia with an armor that had the highest Biotic Protection possible to find, and the Combat Exoskeleton. As a Soldier Shock Trooper that fight is merely a matter of time.

[The Smoking Man]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

I've faced Benezia with an armor that had the highest Biotic Protection possible to find, and the Combat Exoskeleton. As a Soldier Shock Trooper that fight is merely a matter of time.

Apparently you've never been a victim to the Benezia throw bug of doom. You're lucky. The bug is this: if Benezia casts throw on you, and then, while you're under its effects, one of those cutscenes where Benezia opens up a door plays, you'll get teleported to a corner of the room, permastuck. If you wait a while and don't get killed fast, you'll notice Shepard's body getting more and more mutilated (the ragdoll physics bugging out). The only thing you can do about it is reload a previous save and try again.

[Bamboozalist]

The Smoking Man wrote...

Bamboozalist wrote...

Thermal clips are reusable. Just like soldeirs can pick up magazines they discard during combat. The difference is that with a thermal clip you can throw it back into your weapon and keep shooting till it overheats again.

Except they're never demonstrated as such. They're treated as purely disposable supplies. And the clips in your weapons don't seem to cool down by themselves, ever, no matter how long you wait.

They're not treated like that because something that is ~240 degrees Celcius takes a long time to cool down. This is my biggest problem with the ME1 system is that those weapons would not cool down that quickly, maybe if Shepard was caring around some really advanced cooling system on his/her back that plugged into the weapon and made it so they didn't melt themselves from the inside out, sure.

[didymos1120]

The Smoking Man wrote...

The Smoking Man wrote...

To eliminate this inefficiency, the geth adopted detachable heat sinks
known as thermal clips.

... *Self-facepalm*
Why did I bother trying to use the unused Codex entry as evidence for thermal clips being heat sinks when a used Codex entry also already says they are heat sinks?

I also noted something in that entry, which got buried:

didymos1120 wrote...

The Smoking Man wrote...
The fact that cooling, and thus their ability to be reused, inexplicably never enters into the equation is my problem with it.

I was just looking at the Codex material about them that is in the game, and noticed this:

Faced with superior enemy firepower, organic armies soon followed the geth's lead, and today's battlefields are littered with these thermal clips.

This looks to me like a justification for clips just randomly dropping, so the thought occurs: what if we are re-using some clips, and they've just artificially restricted it for gameplay and resource limitation reasons?

I mean, if you think about how many clips they'd have to draw and keep track of if every single time we ejected one it persisted, and the fact that allowing us to just gather up all the ones at our feet after a few seconds would defeat the entire point of having a limited "ammo" system, it kinda makes sense. It's not unlike the fact that bodies just evaporate, or how we can't steal everyone's guns after killing them, or take all their credit chits, or a million other artificial restrictions on resource gathering.

Modifié par didymos1120, 10 janvier 2011 - 08:18 .