186 réponses à ce sujet

[Rhayth]

You can argue the Spirit/Demon term all you want there is a clear line that defines whether a entity is a demon or spirit. Demon's want access to the mortal relm, and Spirits don't. It's fairly simple...however I did enjoy me some Desire Entity throughout the game especially as my mage taking a scenario of passion with Connor's possesser. Oh yea'!

[Felfenix]

I thought the demon with the Templar in the tower wasn't so bad. I mean... he was happier with her... She wasn't really hurting anyone, was she?

Modifié par Felfenix, 09 janvier 2011 - 11:50 .

[DarthCaine]

hmm.. am I the only one that read Desire Spirit Lesbian in DA ?

[Maria Caliban]

In Rivain, wise women enter into mutually beneficial spirit hosting arrangements (MBSHA) on a frequent basis without a problem.

There are spirits who are interested in mortals and the mortal world. Calling them 'demons' is insulting and simply seeks to increase the religious persecution of those who've joined with a spirit.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 09 janvier 2011 - 11:53 .

[ECuyler]

Felfenix wrote...

I thought the demon with the Templar in the tower wasn't so bad. I mean... he was happier with her... She wasn't really hurting anyone, was she?

Yes she was "feeding" on him like the sloth demon and Niall.

[The Elder King]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Selene Moonsong wrote...

Demons and Spirits are opposing entities.

Demons interfere with the mortal world and feed on a mortal's base desire, rage, hunger, etc, to gain access to the mortal world and are malevolent in nature.

Spirits, on the other hand have no direct interest in the mortal world and represent more the virtues of morals, such as valor, justice, etc, and are considered benign spirits.

If that's true and spirits have no interest in mortals or the mortal world, why is Wynne alive?

Generally they have no interest in mortal world. Desire Spirit (like Pride's and others called "demon") are envious of the mortals, and wants to enter in it, and see the world with the prospective of a mortal.
The problem is that quite often this is resulting in killing the mortal. If I remember if you don't kill the templar  possessed in the tower, in the epilogue he dies anyway.

[Eclipse_9990]

Felfenix wrote...

I thought the demon with the Templar in the tower wasn't so bad. I mean... he was happier with her... She wasn't really hurting anyone, was she?

She was stealing his life force.. I mean I let her go as well.. But come on people.. The demon entranced the Templar and forced him into a fantasy world, while in the real world he's pretty much a helpless vegetable while she's slowly sapping the life out of him, and when he's dead she'll just move on to some other poor sap and try to justify the same way she did him. She's a demon.. She's evil.. Accept it. 

[Gavinthelocust]

DarthCaine wrote...

hmm.. am I the only one that read Desire Spirit Lesbian in DA ?

No, no you're not

[silentassassin264]

This thread is one of the reasons I was annoyed with Origins...and by extension, Awakening. Demons are always shown to be a chaotic evil that just want to see the world...and then make it burn. We never get to converse with the demons to see how they see the world. After talking to Justice it made it worse because for all we know, Fade Spirits could just have some sort of connection to lyrium and the demons are trying to get into this world and chase after lyrium but instead of being able to get an answer we are just supposed to kill them.

[TJPags]

So many of you are looking at this from the Chantry propoganda pooint of view.

Yes, "demons" want to interact with the human world.  What, inherently, is wrong with that?  After all, humans try to interact with the spirit world, don't they?  (the fade, why yes they do!).

Demons offer something to those they posess - and the person accepts the deal.  Again, nothing inherently evil here.

I have no doubt that demons can keep their hosts alive, if they wish, at least for their appointed lifespan.  All they have to do is allow them to eat, sleep, drink, etc.  Nothing so hard in that.

The demon sees the world, the person likely can count on greater health and power.

Nothing wrong with that, from where I'm sitting.

[The Elder King]

Rhayth wrote...

You can argue the Spirit/Demon term all you want there is a clear line that defines whether a entity is a demon or spirit. Demon's want access to the mortal relm, and Spirits don't. It's fairly simple...however I did enjoy me some Desire Entity throughout the game especially as my mage taking a scenario of passion with Connor's possesser. Oh yea'!

They are all spirits. Wiki source:
http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Demons
http://dragonage.wik...om/wiki/Spirits

[Eclipse_9990]

silentassassin264 wrote...

This thread is one of the reasons I was annoyed with Origins...and by extension, Awakening. Demons are always shown to be a chaotic evil that just want to see the world...and then make it burn. We never get to converse with the demons to see how they see the world. After talking to Justice it made it worse because for all we know, Fade Spirits could just have some sort of connection to lyrium and the demons are trying to get into this world and chase after lyrium but instead of being able to get an answer we are just supposed to kill them.

How the hell are we supposed to get answers from them when their trying to kill or enslave us.  I swear people will try to justify anything.. 

[Ladybright]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Schneidend wrote...

Mutually-beneficial?

Maria...when "spirits" feed on you, it eventually kills you. Even if it didn't, it was suggested the ensorcelled templar in the Tower quest would simply die from dehydration, hunger, or exhaustion.

Don't bother.. She's just blinded by her strange infatuation with Desire Demons.. Theres no reasoning with her.. 

Clearly you missed the some of the humor threading through her posts?

It's an interesting topic nonetheless. I'm interested in everyone's replies. I always have trouble with the Templar in the Tower. Which would he prefer? Is it okay if he'd want it, or is consorting with demons always wrong? Etc., etc.

[Maria Caliban]

hhh89 wrote...


Generally they have no interest in mortal world.

Make up your mind. Do *no* spirits have interest in the mortal world or do some have interest while others don't?

And recall what I said about the Riviani. All their wise women allow spirits within them. Are you saying these are all 'demons?'

Desire Spirit (like Pride's and others called "demon") are envious of the mortals, and wants to enter in it, and see the world with the prospective of a mortal.

Indeed. The world is a fascinating and wonderful place. Who wouldn't want to explore it?

The problem is that quite often this is resulting in killing the mortal. If I remember if you don't kill the templar  possessed in the tower, in the epilogue he dies anyway.

Nothing about the Templar appears in the epilogue.

[TJPags]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

This thread is one of the reasons I was annoyed with Origins...and by extension, Awakening. Demons are always shown to be a chaotic evil that just want to see the world...and then make it burn. We never get to converse with the demons to see how they see the world. After talking to Justice it made it worse because for all we know, Fade Spirits could just have some sort of connection to lyrium and the demons are trying to get into this world and chase after lyrium but instead of being able to get an answer we are just supposed to kill them.

How the hell are we supposed to get answers from them when their trying to kill or enslave us.  I swear people will try to justify anything.. 

Neither the demon in Honleath, nor the one posessing Connor, immediately tried to kill you.  They fought to defend themselves.  Same with the one possessing the Templar.

[HolyAvenger]

Nothing I liked better than delivering a beat down on a desire demon. The laughable attempt at "reasoning" in the mage tower made the subsequent beatdown even more enjoyable.

[Seagloom]

I am sorry, but I have to blatantly ignore the request to refer to them as desire spirits.

I agree we should have the opportunity to assist or bargain with demons There is no reason not to include those options. They were available before. I would not mind a possibility of possessio, either, as long as it real consequences for the character *and* player. It could lead to all sorts of gameplay possibilities in combat or dialogue. Of course, I like that desire demons are demons because... I like demons. I have long had a soft spot for succubi or succubi-like demons in particular. They tend to be craftier than their sexually charged portrayals often suggest. Desire and pride demons are by far the most interesting in DA lore, as they are cunning and capable of long term planning.

That demons can be duplicitous and are selfishly motivated parasitic beings with a weird sense of honor is intriguing and has all sorts of possibilities. I will not sugarcoat these entities by referring to them as spirits, because spirits are comparably lame. I say, embrace the reckless abandon and twisted logic of demons for what it is. Validation and political correctness be damned.

On a side note, please consider letting us summon a demonic host with blood magic in a future game, BioWare devs. I want to engage in some veil tearing carnage, darn it!

Modifié par Seagloom, 10 janvier 2011 - 12:01 .

[Maria Caliban]

DarthCaine wrote...

hmm.. am I the only one that read Desire Spirit Lesbian in DA ?

That... would be nice as well.

While I'm at it, spirits of desire don't discriminate based on gender. They don't consider elves 'less' than humans. They don't care about your age, nationality, or sexual orientation.

Mortals most certainly show all these prejudices but no one says that all mortals are evil.

[Gavinthelocust]

I believe this is needed

[Eclipse_9990]

TJPags wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

This thread is one of the reasons I was annoyed with Origins...and by extension, Awakening. Demons are always shown to be a chaotic evil that just want to see the world...and then make it burn. We never get to converse with the demons to see how they see the world. After talking to Justice it made it worse because for all we know, Fade Spirits could just have some sort of connection to lyrium and the demons are trying to get into this world and chase after lyrium but instead of being able to get an answer we are just supposed to kill them.

How the hell are we supposed to get answers from them when their trying to kill or enslave us.  I swear people will try to justify anything.. 

Neither the demon in Honleath, nor the one posessing Connor, immediately tried to kill you.  They fought to defend themselves.  Same with the one possessing the Templar.

The demon in honleath was going to posses a little girl(enslavement with eventual death of said little girl). The demon that possessed connor murdered tons of villagers(Killing) and turned the arls brother into a jester(Enslavement).. The Templar(Enslavement) nuff said.. 

Modifié par Eclipse_9990, 10 janvier 2011 - 12:07 .

[Maria Caliban]

Seagloom wrote...

I am sorry, but I have to blatantly ignore the request to refer to them as desire spirits.

I think they're called demons so people feel good about attacking and killing them. It's just an easy label to slap on a spirit so a player can murder them and not have to think about the morality of the act.

Desire and pride demons are by far the most interesting in DA lore, as they are cunning and capable of long term planning.

Thank you. Spirits of desire are obviously intelligent. They, and mortals they're hosting with, are not mad dogs to be put down.

[The Elder King]

Maria Caliban wrote...

hhh89 wrote...


Generally they have no interest in mortal world.

Make up your mind. Do *no* spirits have interest in the mortal world or do some have interest while others don't?

And recall what I said about the Riviani. All their wise women allow spirits within them. Are you saying these are all 'demons?'

Desire Spirit (like Pride's and others called "demon") are envious of the mortals, and wants to enter in it, and see the world with the prospective of a mortal.

Indeed. The world is a fascinating and wonderful place. Who wouldn't want to explore it?

The problem is that quite often this is resulting in killing the mortal. If I remember if you don't kill the templar  possessed in the tower, in the epilogue he dies anyway.

Nothing about the Templar appears in the epilogue.

Sorry, don't  see the Rivaini example you made until now. I was probably mistaked. My only knowledge of spirits are from DAO.
I agree with you about hte intention of exploring the world, bout you can do it without possessing a mortals, or at least, with an agreement with the mortal (like you sai about the Rivaini).
I read about the templar in wiki, so I assume this information is wrong.
I'm not against spirits in general, but if they force themselves into a mortal, I'm going to stop them. In the case of the templar in the circle towe, he was only living an illusion, that wasn't his real life.

[Dasher1010]

Desire demons are by their nature evil. Good demons are always seen wearing armor and talking like stereotypical knights in shining armor. If a desire demon became good, it would probably look like Justice did in The Fade.

[Maria Caliban]

Dasher1010 wrote...

Desire demons are by their nature evil. Good demons are always seen wearing armor and talking like stereotypical knights in shining armor. If a desire demon became good, it would probably look like Justice did in The Fade.

Since when does looking like an attractive woman mean one is evil?

[The Elder King]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Seagloom wrote...

I am sorry, but I have to blatantly ignore the request to refer to them as desire spirits.

I think they're called demons so people feel good about attacking and killing them. It's just an easy label to slap on a spirit so a player can murder them and not have to think about the morality of the act.

Desire and pride demons are by far the most interesting in DA lore, as they are cunning and capable of long term planning.

Thank you. Spirits of desire are obviously intelligent. They, and mortals they're hosting with, are not mad dogs to be put down.

The Connor's one slaughtered a lot of people, and wanted to kill all Redcliffe's population, and formed an army with dead body. It's obviously an intelligent one, but what it done is cruel. I killed it, as I had done with a noble or a mage.