186 réponses à ce sujet

[Ivers0803]

Spirits personify the trait that they choose. Desire is at the heart of all conflict, desire for wealth, power, desire to spread your beliefs. Desire demons only desire. They make deals because they want more. They can never be content with what they have. They consume. They are morally grey at best.

[Maria Caliban]

Ironically, there probably is a spirit of imagination.

I had often found it odd that spirits are the Maker's first children and lived with him in the Golden City, but have no idea who he is. Spirit must have horrible memories.

[blothulfur]

Would a spirit personifying vengeance be a desire d-eh spirit, rage or justice, seems like it would be falling under all threes influence to varying degrees.

[nijnij]

Maria Caliban wrote...
I had often found it odd that spirits are the Maker's first children and lived with him in the Golden City, but have no idea who he is. Spirit must have horrible memories.

I assume that would be because Spirits (and demons) are all quite self-absorbed, being drawn to one thing mostly (be it Pride, Sloth, Hunger, Justice, Valor, etc.). It's interesting to note that Valor isn't so far from a Pride demon, since he insists on dueling your mage in the Fade, unless you persuade him that it's not very valorous ; after all, pride and valor are both related to honor in a way. So I'm not sure spirits know that they're "bad" or "good", their line of conduct seems mostly visceral.

I'd say what characterizes demons though is that they try to posess living beings to see our world, while other "spirits" would only visit them in their dreams. What happened to Wynne was quite exceptional and seems more like a favor and a consensual pact.

But given the fact that you get to talk with several demons, I think they're all intelligent despite their neediness (you can, after all, convince the Desire Demon to leave Connor alone, not just intimidate her). So I could totally see a Desire Demon/spirit/whatever on a quest to redemption as a valid companion.

Modifié par nijnij, 20 janvier 2011 - 12:28 .

[Maria Caliban]

blothulfur wrote...

Would a spirit personifying vengeance be a desire d-eh spirit, rage or justice, seems like it would be falling under all threes influence to varying degrees.

That's an interesting question.

Vengeance is more complex than rage. Whether you think it falls under desire or justice depends on how 'base' you think vengeance is.

[blothulfur]

Suppose it's a case by case thing but is vengeance ever just or is it giving in to rage and desire rather than seeking true justice, questions beyond me but it would make a damn fine demon sorry spirit especially if it arose from a players actions.

[nijnij]

Vengeance is not justice ; it can be incidentally, but by definition it's not. Vengeance is oriented at something, while the term rage implies it got out of control and is oriented at nothing much but itself. Vengeance can be a type of desire, although the main difference between the two words would be that desire is generally motivated by a "lack" of something, while vengeance is something you need to get rid of. But like I've said in my previous post, Valor and Pride share some similarities, so I don't think any Spirit has an exclusivity on those undertones, it's more about which undertone they're the most anal about.

[blothulfur]

So you're saying a vengeance spirit or demon would be viable as a seperate entity rather than being one facet of a desire spirit, now to think on what it would look like.

[Ivers0803]

If Justice returned to the fade what kind of spirit would he be classified as.

[lokisjoke13]

I'm curious, as far as imagination goes, would that be more a spirit or demon domain? Imagination being something that could be used on both ends of the spectrum.

[Erani]

If the desire entity has a parasitic relationship with the mortal  then it's clearly a desire demon. I think the important issue then is, what defines a parasitic relationship? Because the mortal (host in this case) must be harmed in some way for their relationship to be parasitic, then we must ask if enslaving/trapping the mind constitutes "harm". The way i see it, if the mortal agrees to play "host" to the desire entity, then their relationship is not parasitic but mutualistic because you can't enslave a willing mind and the desire entity would indeed be a desire spirit.

[ReallyRue]

If you were going to liberate 'desire spirits', then shouldn't you do the same for sloth and pride spirits? Unlike hunger and rage demons/spirits, they are intelligent and capable of something other than mindless violence.

Also, as an earlier poster said, I too think they're amoral rather than evil. Spirits don't understand the mortal world, so they are bound not to have similar morals. And desire, sloth and pride aren't inherently evil qualities. Besides, most of the 'demons' I came acorss didn't seem more 'evil' than Morrigan. Some of them even seemed nicer, lol.