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[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...


I thought that was Assembly propaganda.

Oh well I guess that adds a new dimension to brother Burkel. Convert the heathens and let them serve the Maker by mining blue goo.

No, its definitely stated a few times in game. An Orzammar dwarf does not automatically lose it, its a gradual process, and it carries over to future generations. Dwarves who were bron on the surface to parents from Orzammar will probably have little, if any resistance left. 

One of the dwarf traders outside Orzammar also tells you about it. the general dwarven term for this resistance is stone sense. He states he was never born with it, having been born topside.

[KnightofPhoenix]

IanPolaris wrote...
True, but the one think you DON'T do during such a civil war is openly send your troops in if you are generally hated in that other country.  Even Syria regarding Lebannon was smart enough not to do a full invasion of the later during it's long civil war (although Syria did essentially annex the Bakaa valley).

Thus, Orlais in such a case would be even LESS likely to participate in an exalted march.

Syrian intervention was for all intents and purposes an invasion and there were Syrian military posts in Beirout itself and its secret service dominated the country (in fact, still does). Trust me I know, I am Syrian.

It was not officially annexed because that would be stupid. But Orlais can very well try and put a friendly government in Ferleden. Not doing so would be such a huge waste of opportunity that it would be idiotic.

Even with a rebellian in Spain, Napolean was able to field  an army well over 100,000 men dwarfing any other in Europe when he started the Russian campaign.

Seriously man, you are way overstating your case.

And no where did I say that Spain destroyed Napoleon but everyone knows it was a huge burden on him that delayed his other campaigns and many historians argue that it was the beginning of his fall.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 11 janvier 2011 - 05:28 .

[IanPolaris]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...
As for marching on Orzammar, the Landsmeet will see "Orlais is invading us again, stab, stab, stab,kill, kill, kill."  I dare you to tell me I'm wrong about this given Fereldan sensibilities.

Isn't the civil war in Ferelden enough proof? The Bannorn didn't give a crap about it and they didn't care what Loghain said nor did they care about Orlesian legions on the borders. In the game, heck no one cared except Loghain, which is stupid. 

If a civil war errupts and Orlais helps install a friendly regime, and it makes it clear that they only want Orzammar, I dont' think Ferelden nobility that have proven how idiotic and divisive they are, are going to care.

And I find it hard to believe taht the banns who fight each other over wool and trees, are really accountable to their subjects.

Not really.  Most of the Banns figured (correctly) that Orlais would not want to stick it's member in the meat grinder....again.  Whether it was because of an overestimation of their martial ability, or the cold calculation that it would be stupid to do because of the darkspawn doesn't really matter.  The Bann's resistance to Loghain was because he was acting like a high handed idiot and not because of any love for Orlais.

The Banns might not have had Loghains' paranoia towards Orlais, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't have signed a truce with Loghain in a heartbeat had Orlais really invaded.  They would have and Loghain would have accepted it.

IanPolaris wrote...
You seem to assume that Anora/Alistair/Celene are all protected by a bunch of chuckleheads.  You can't COUNT on assassination to work or make it part of your argument.  You just can't.

-Polaris

In a world where  there is something like the Antivan crows (who can stop whole invasions by simply picking off generals), yes assassinations are something to consider always.

No it's not.  You can't count on assassinations to work.  You can attempt them sure, but you have to assume that they will fail and you will be fingered and be prepared to deal with the consequence.  Otherwise every head of state would be assassinated in short order of the godlike Crows were as important as you think.  That's even assuming the Crows would even take such a Chantry contract which I doubt....too messy.  Ignacio tells you that he would never take a contract on a Grey Warden because of it's messy nature, and  if you remember one of Zev's adventures, the crows were quite willing to throw Zev to the dogs in the Circle of Magi fingered him for killing of an enchanter.....even if he suceeded.

-Polaris

[KnightofPhoenix]

IanPolaris wrote...
No it's not.  You can't count on assassinations to work.  You can attempt them sure, but you have to assume that they will fail and you will be fingered and be prepared to deal with the consequence.

And like I said before, desperate people who think they are lost anyways, will do desperate things and take the risk.

IanPolaris wrote...
Ignacio tells you that he would never take a contract on a Grey Warden because of it's messy nature, and  if you remember one of Zev's adventures, the crows were quite willing to throw Zev to the dogs in the Circle of Magi fingered him for killing of an enchanter.....even if he suceeded.
-Polaris

Each Crow cell plays independently. It's not implausible that you might find one that is willing to do such contracts for the right price.

And Ignacio tells you that doing thsoe contracts for him will make him refuse to take any more contracts on you. What does that mean? That he might consider it if you don't do what you are told. He might be bluffing. And he might have been perfectly serious.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 11 janvier 2011 - 05:33 .

[IanPolaris]

KoP,



And look what's happened recently. I think dogs are more popular in Lebennon than Syrians are. Enough said except to note that Fereldan would be a constant running sore. Orlais already tried the friendly govt ruse and failed...and failed badly. Orlais shows no inclination of trying again.



As for Nevarra and the Blasted Hills, fomenting a rebellian there is a strategy of weakness (which doesn't mean it's ineffective), but if the bulk of Orlais' forces are in Fereldan beseiging Orzammar (and facing passive but nasty resistance from local Fereldans as well), then having a few units tied down in the hills won't be much of a disincentive for Nevarra if she feels frisky...and Celene I knows it.



-Polaris

[KnightofPhoenix]

IanPolaris wrote...
And look what's happened recently. I think dogs are more popular in Lebennon than Syrians are. Enough said except to note that Fereldan would be a constant running sore. Orlais already tried the friendly govt ruse and failed...and failed badly. Orlais shows no inclination of trying again.

And that's not relevent (and no, despite some hatred, they are still liked by a large sgement of the population).

Orlais tried an idiotic puppet regime with a foreign king. It did not try a native allied puppet government that "plays by the rules".

IanPolaris wrote...
As for Nevarra and the Blasted Hills, fomenting a rebellian there is a strategy of weakness (which doesn't mean it's ineffective), but if the bulk of Orlais' forces are in Fereldan beseiging Orzammar (and facing passive but nasty resistance from local Fereldans as well), then having a few units tied down in the hills won't be much of a disincentive for Nevarra if she feels frisky...and Celene I knows it.

-Polaris

We don't know how much populated the Blasted Hills are and what kind of terrain it has. It might be a nuissance. It might be more. We don't know, it's plausible that it's either.

[IanPolaris]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...
No it's not.  You can't count on assassinations to work.  You can attempt them sure, but you have to assume that they will fail and you will be fingered and be prepared to deal with the consequence.

And like I said before, desperate people who think they are lost anyways, will do desperate things and take the risk.

Yes, but Orlais isn't desperate.  The Chantry might be desperate but as I once told my OIC, "Your bad planning is not my problem".  I can easily see the Empress saying exactly that to the Divine.  So what then, the Divine tries to assassinat the Empress with her crackerjack security...knowing that if she fails...or even if she's fingered in the success, the Chantry loses out on the one nation that's been it's physical home for centuries?

Really?  Are you really trying to call this plausible?!

IanPolaris wrote...
Ignacio tells you that he would never take a contract on a Grey Warden because of it's messy nature, and  if you remember one of Zev's adventures, the crows were quite willing to throw Zev to the dogs in the Circle of Magi fingered him for killing of an enchanter.....even if he suceeded.
-Polaris

Each Crow cell plays independently. It's not implausible that you might find one that is willing to do such contracts for the right price.

And Ignacio tells you that doing thsoe contracts for him will make him refuse to take any more contracts on you. What does that mean? That he might consider it if you don't do what you are told. He might be bluffing. And he might have been perfectly serious.

Zev also tells you (and Ignacio doesn't contradict this and it's said in Ignacio's presence) that the only time the entire Crows worked together was to take down a prince who was fourth in line to the throne.  Given the lack of assassinations of rulers by the Crows, I think this is pretty safe evidence that the crows don't seem to take contracts on heads of state (now their immediate subordinates are another story!)

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...
And look what's happened recently. I think dogs are more popular in Lebennon than Syrians are. Enough said except to note that Fereldan would be a constant running sore. Orlais already tried the friendly govt ruse and failed...and failed badly. Orlais shows no inclination of trying again.

And that's not relevent (and no, despite some hatred, they are still liked by a large sgement of the population).

Hmm, I noted something else given the last election results and that was WITH Syrian electoral inference...but yes onward....

Orlais tried an idiotic puppet regime with a foreign king. It did not try a native allied puppet government that "plays by the rules".

Too late.  Orlais poisoned this well when they went with a puppet regime that also claimed to "play by the rules".  Feredans by and large won't trust anything an Orlesian says in that regard.

IanPolaris wrote...
As for Nevarra and the Blasted Hills, fomenting a rebellian there is a strategy of weakness (which doesn't mean it's ineffective), but if the bulk of Orlais' forces are in Fereldan beseiging Orzammar (and facing passive but nasty resistance from local Fereldans as well), then having a few units tied down in the hills won't be much of a disincentive for Nevarra if she feels frisky...and Celene I knows it.

-Polaris

We don't know how much populated the Blasted Hills are and what kind of terrain it has. It might be a nuissance. It might be more. We don't know, it's plausible that it's either.

Even if the sitution entirely favors the rebels (as it did in Spain during the Napoleonic Wars), it's still only a nuisance.  I note in those wars, Nappy was still able to field and equip the largest army in Europe even with the situation in Spain.

That made Spain a nuisance.  I'm sorry but given the tech base we see in the game, the Blasted Hills aren't going to be anything more than a nuisance unless Orlais wants to risk open war with Nevarra (in whcih case she certainly will NOT be helping any exalted marches!)

-Polaris

[KnightofPhoenix]

IanPolaris wrote...
Yes, but Orlais isn't desperate. 

It will or might become desperate with the rise of Nevarra. It might take a few decades. It might even take a few years. The Blasted Hills are afterall, rich.  

IanPolaris wrote...
Really?  Are you really trying to call this plausible?!

Yes.

Zev also tells you (and Ignacio doesn't contradict this and it's said in Ignacio's presence) that the only time the entire Crows worked together was to take down a prince who was fourth in line to the throne.  Given the lack of assassinations of rulers by the Crows, I think this is pretty safe evidence that the crows don't seem to take contracts on heads of state (now their immediate subordinates are another story!)

-Polaris

That's internal politics and since the royalty is into the Crows, obviously that would be very messy.

The Crows had no problem taking a contract on the Arl of Amranthine (the warden commander).
I really dont' see how it's impossible for them to accept assassinating heads of state.

The Hashasin afterall did that with Nizam Al Mulk.

[IanPolaris]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...
Yes, but Orlais isn't desperate. 

It will or might become desperate with the rise of Nevarra. It might take a few decades. It might even take a few years. The Blasted Hills are afterall, rich.  

It isn't desperate right now, and Celene I has a plan to keep it from becoming so and that plan emphatically does NOT include antagonizing Fereldan and marching Orlesian troops into Fereldan territory without the consent of the King or Queen of Fereldan (exalted march or no) is NOT on the agenda.  How many times must this be pointed out?  The Chantry may be desperate but not Orlais at least not yet.

IanPolaris wrote...
Really?  Are you really trying to call this plausible?!

Yes.

Really.  You have a strange concept of plausible.

Zev also tells you (and Ignacio doesn't contradict this and it's said in Ignacio's presence) that the only time the entire Crows worked together was to take down a prince who was fourth in line to the throne.  Given the lack of assassinations of rulers by the Crows, I think this is pretty safe evidence that the crows don't seem to take contracts on heads of state (now their immediate subordinates are another story!)

-Polaris

That's internal politics and since the royalty is into the Crows, obviously that would be very messy.

The Crows had no problem taking a contract on the Arl of Amranthine (the warden commander).
I really dont' see how it's impossible for them to accept assassinating heads of state.

The Hashasin afterall did that with Nizam Al Mulk.

Why don't we see evidence of that in the game?  Also the crows did NOT hire you to kill the Arl of Amaranthine.  You were hired to kill his Head Guardsman.  Big difference.  ALso an Arl is NOT a head of state.

-Polaris

[KnightofPhoenix]

IanPolaris wrote...
Hmm, I noted something else given the last election results and that was WITH Syrian electoral inference...but yes onward....

I said a large segment. I didn't say the majority.
Not that I particurarily care either way.

Too late.  Orlais poisoned this well when they went with a puppet regime that also claimed to "play by the rules".  Feredans by and large won't trust anything an Orlesian says in that regard.

Nope, Orlesian occupation banned the Landsmeet, they certainly were not even pretending to play by he rules.

When the nobles are too busy fighting each other in a possible civil war, it doesn't matter what they think.

Even if the sitution entirely favors the rebels (as it did in Spain during the Napoleonic Wars), it's still only a nuisance.  I note in those wars, Nappy was still able to field and equip the largest army in Europe even with the situation in Spain.

That made Spain a nuisance.  I'm sorry but given the tech base we see in the game, the Blasted Hills aren't going to be anything more than a nuisance unless Orlais wants to risk open war with Nevarra (in whcih case she certainly will NOT be helping any exalted marches!)

-Polaris

I really don't get how you simply dismiss Spain as a nuissance for Nappy. The British clearly saw a strategic advantage in interferring there to undermine France as much as possible.
Again, I am not saying it was disatrous. But to dismiss it as a minor nuissance that Napoleon was barely hurt by, is just ahistorical.

And France was the major land power of Europe at the time (and it had lots of allies to be able to field such armies). That's not Nevarra, though I see potential. 

[KnightofPhoenix]

IanPolaris wrote...
It isn't desperate right now, and Celene I has a plan to keep it from becoming so and that plan emphatically does NOT include antagonizing Fereldan and marching Orlesian troops into Fereldan territory without the consent of the King or Queen of Fereldan (exalted march or no) is NOT on the agenda.  How many times must this be pointed out?  The Chantry may be desperate but not Orlais at least not yet.

And when did I say right now?
I just said. Maybe in a few decades. Maybe in a few years.

Why don't we see evidence of that in the game?  Also the crows did NOT hire you to kill the Arl of Amaranthine.  You were hired to kill his Head Guardsman.  Big difference.  ALso an Arl is NOT a head of state.

And again you take absence of evidence as evidence of absence and that new things can never happen if they don't have a precedent.

The Crows were hired to kill you, the arl of Amaranthine.
And if they don't mind killing an Arl who answers to both the Wardens and the Crown, I dont' see why it would be impossible for them to even consider assassinating a head of state.

[IanPolaris]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Too late.  Orlais poisoned this well when they went with a puppet regime that also claimed to "play by the rules".  Feredans by and large won't trust anything an Orlesian says in that regard.

Nope, Orlesian occupation banned the Landsmeet, they certainly were not even pretending to play by he rules.

Of course they were.  Otherwise they wouldn't have had a "Fereldan King" or "Fereldan Nobles" at all.  The fact that Orlais botched the occupation so badly and were so brutal about it has poisoned the well.  You hear this over and over again from mutiple sources.  Even if Orlais tried to "play by the rules" the next time, their credibility is pretty much zero at this point.  Celene I understands this. 

When the nobles are too busy fighting each other in a possible civil war, it doesn't matter what they think.

Oh yes it does.  Civil Wars are like domestic disputes writ large.  In a domestic dispute, cops often hate to intervene because all to often BOTH sides will go balistic on the cop.

Now does that preclude Orlais from sending covert aid to one side or the other?  Of course not, but it would be COVERT and that would preclude any Orlesian support for an exalted march on Fereldan territory....lest it galvanize the Fereldans against you.

Even if the sitution entirely favors the rebels (as it did in Spain during the Napoleonic Wars), it's still only a nuisance.  I note in those wars, Nappy was still able to field and equip the largest army in Europe even with the situation in Spain.

That made Spain a nuisance.  I'm sorry but given the tech base we see in the game, the Blasted Hills aren't going to be anything more than a nuisance unless Orlais wants to risk open war with Nevarra (in whcih case she certainly will NOT be helping any exalted marches!)

-Polaris

I really don't get how you simply dismiss Spain as a nuissance for Nappy. The British clearly saw a strategic advantage in interferring there to undermine France as much as possible.
Again, I am not saying it was disatrous. But to dismiss it as a minor nuissance that Napoleon was barely hurt by, is just ahistorical.

And France was the major land power of Europe at the time (and it had lots of allies to be able to field such armies). That's not Nevarra, though I see potential. 

Do you really think the Brits saw Spain as anything other than a nuisance for Nappy?  Of course not!  However, tying down those forces in Spain was cheap and a definately worthwhile.  The reason it was worthwhile for the Brits is that there were fewer French forces elsewhere for a pittance used by the Brits.

That doesn't mean it was anything more than a nuisance for Nappy because it was just a nuisance.  Just because something is "only" a nuisance does not mean it's not worth doing stragetically.  It's a cost-benefit thing.

As for Nevarra, you are trying to tell me that a rebellian there would protect Orlais from Nevarra while the bulk of the Orlesian army is freezing (and dying) in a seige of Orzammar that lasts years....if possible at all (which it wouldn't be in the face of Fereldan Passive resistance).  You really think that Nevarra wouldn't have enough left to walk into an undefended Orlais?

Really?  That was my point about Nappy.  You can't count on a sponsered rebellion as your primary line of defense.  At best it helps shift the odds your way.  At best.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

The Crows were hired to kill you, the arl of Amaranthine.
And if they don't mind killing an Arl who answers to both the Wardens and the Crown, I dont' see why it would be impossible for them to even consider assassinating a head of state.

The Arl of Amaranthine is not a head of state.  There is no evidence that the Crows assassinate heads of state.

-Polaris

[KnightofPhoenix]

IanPolaris wrote...
Of course they were.  Otherwise they wouldn't have had a "Fereldan King" or "Fereldan Nobles" at all. 

They didn't have a Fereldan king, they had an Orlesian king with Orlesian advisors (and the Chantry).
The Landsmeet was banned. And the Chevaliers can do whatever the hell they wanted with Ferelden commoners.

How is that playing by the rules. Not exterminating the nobility does not mean playing by the rules.

Oh yes it does.  Civil Wars are like domestic disputes writ large.  In a domestic dispute, cops often hate to intervene because all to often BOTH sides will go balistic on the cop.

That's certainly not what happened in Lebanon. At all. And not only vis a vis Syrian intervention, but also the Israeli invasion of 1982.

I never said Orlais would go in with its chevaliers and ride to Denerim. It would provide support to one side that is the most favorable to its interests. But some overt assistance, like military assistance, will obviously also be part of it. Especially if Nevarra sees an interest to interfer.

Do you really think the Brits saw Spain as anything other than a nuisance for Nappy?  Of course not!  However, tying down those forces in Spain was cheap and a definately worthwhile.  The reason it was worthwhile for the Brits is that there were fewer French forces elsewhere for a pittance used by the Brits.

That doesn't mean it was anything more than a nuisance for Nappy because it was just a nuisance.  Just because something is "only" a nuisance does not mean it's not worth doing stragetically.  It's a cost-benefit thing.

As for Nevarra, you are trying to tell me that a rebellian there would protect Orlais from Nevarra while the bulk of the Orlesian army is freezing (and dying) in a seige of Orzammar that lasts years....if possible at all (which it wouldn't be in the face of Fereldan Passive resistance).  You really think that Nevarra wouldn't have enough left to walk into an undefended Orlais?

Really?  That was my point about Nappy.  You can't count on a sponsered rebellion as your primary line of defense.  At best it helps shift the odds your way.  At best.

-Polaris

Seeing how many men and ressource Napoleon had to mobalize for Spain and that he had to personally intevene because his generals couldn't do crap there, I'd say it's much more than a mere nuissance and there is enough historical literrature that argue this. Many argue that it was the beginning of his collapse.

Orlais can divide its forces into two. Play scorched earth with Nevarra if necessary, while it attempts to take control over the the "oil" of Thedas.

If it is desperate, which it might be, I don't see how it's impossible for that to happen.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 11 janvier 2011 - 06:18 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

IanPolaris wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

The Crows were hired to kill you, the arl of Amaranthine.
And if they don't mind killing an Arl who answers to both the Wardens and the Crown, I dont' see why it would be impossible for them to even consider assassinating a head of state.

The Arl of Amaranthine is not a head of state.  There is no evidence that the Crows assassinate heads of state.

-Polaris

There is no evidence that it's impossible for them to.

And seeing how the system of Ferelden functions, the Arl of Amaranthine is close to being a head of State. Add to that that he / she is linked with the First Warden.

[mousestalker]

We know that the Crows kill heads of state. Zevran says as much in one of his stories.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

I think crows can and do go after heads of state. Zevran was talking about how the Crows do assasinate kings when they become problematic in Antiva. I don't know if this applies for heads of state outside of Antiva, but Zevran says that no one is above the reach of the Crows, not even the magi or the Chantry.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Eh why am I arguing this anyways? Chances are DA2 will come up with something totally new and unexpected and Flemeth will go crazy and all this would be irrelevent. I'll retire. Maybe the Chantry is much more stupid than I thought it was.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Maybe the Chantry is much more stupid than I thought it was.

You just now figured this out?

Anyway, my original point was, is that the mage issue is coming to a critical point where conflict is inevitible, and there will be a major showdown between the two entities. This seems to be, at least in part, something that is going to have a major effect in DA2, since the develoeprs keep saying its something that will have effects throught Thedas in a big way, as well as hints at the fall of the Chantry, or at least severe weakness.

it comes as no surprise, though, because organized religious entities do not operate from a practical, reasonable, basis, but one based on the wholy subjective concept of spirituality. We have seen, at least in the west, the power, influence, and relevance of religion steadily decline and diminish in terms of its ability to actually influence society and government, because they could not adapt with the times and winds of change. I do not think the Chantry will ever completely disappear, as religion/spirituality is always an element of the human experience, and will most likely remain so for a long time.

But the Chantry's ability to weild real world power and influence over the function of government and society is probably going to come to an end pretty soon, if everything we hear about DA2 is true. Which in my opinion is probably a good thing.

Flemmeth, I think, is not an element here, since her plans/motives seem to transcend things like religion and politics, as is Morrigan. Whatever is going on between those two is probably even bigger, though will not be seen/realized until a later sequel, if at all.

[LobselVith8]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Maybe the Chantry is much more stupid than I thought it was.

It's possible. Based on what we know from DA:O and Awakening, it's likely they'll factor in a significant way in DA2. For all we know, DA2 could involve a mage Hawke coming to power and uniting the Free Marches under his banner, emancipating the mages of the Circles in his realm while dismantling the local templars, and becoming a thorn in the side of the Chantry and the templars. It would be a good beginning for the mages.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

LobselVith8 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Maybe the Chantry is much more stupid than I thought it was.

It's possible. Based on what we know from DA:O and Awakening, it's likely they'll factor in a significant way in DA2. For all we know, DA2 could involve a mage Hawke coming to power and uniting the Free Marches under his banner, emancipating the mages of the Circles in his realm while dismantling the local templars, and becoming a thorn in the side of the Chantry and the templars. It would be a good beginning for the mages.

I think the developers said Hawke is supposed to be super awesome and the most important person in Thedas, which means whatever he does, its going to effect directly more than just Kirkwall or the Free Marches, but the entire continent as well. From the sounds of it, Hawke could become far more than a thorn in the Chantry's side. Maybe even set off key events that will be the Chantry's doom.

Whatever the scenario is, so long as it is a well written, well developed one, I will be pleased. Even if I can't completely dethrone the Chantry or bring about Armageddon.

[KnightofPhoenix]

It would feel extremity meeh if Hawke single handedely brings about the fall of the Chantry.

That would be pushing the "he's awesomorz!" thing way too far, especially if they end up making Ferelden fall into civil war making everything the Warden has done utterly irrelevant.

[LobselVith8]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

I think the developers said Hawke is supposed to be super awesome and the most important person in Thedas, which means whatever he does, its going to effect directly more than just Kirkwall or the Free Marches, but the entire continent as well. From the sounds of it, Hawke could become far more than a thorn in the Chantry's side. Maybe even set off key events that will be the Chantry's doom.

Given the virtual slavery of the mages at the hands of the Chantry, I'm hoping it means that Hawke can actually have some impact on the world around him. Being a modern Calenhad by uniting the different factions of the Free Marches could potentially make him the most important person in Thedas, by being the head of a newly formed and powerful nation. Having the power to dismantle templar control over mages, and liberate them under his flag, could lead to the gradual decline of the Andrastian Chantry as mages across Thedas would flock to the Free Marches to be outside of Chantry and templar control.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

It would feel extremity meeh if Hawke single handedely brings about the fall of the Chantry.
That would be pushing the "he's awesomorz!" thing way too far, especially if they end up making Ferelden fall into civil war making everything the Warden has done utterly irrelevant.

I don't think they would make that happen (at least I hope not) because that would be rather cheesy.

I'm hoping that it will be the more realistic "ripple effect", in that hawke's actions have major reprecussions that spread throughout Thedas. Domino effect, perhaps.

I think they already are bringing about the "hez sew awesome" aspect in the sense he/she is going to rise to power and take over something, even though technically, he/she comes from nothing. So I think that's unavoidable. It is, after all, and RPG.

I think there is enough being set up, and going on in thedas that the foundations have been laid for something big to happen with the right catalyst.